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[Nx?]
BRONZE Member since Nov 2001

[Nx?]

Carpal \'Tunnel
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Posted:the coleman said:

quote: you want the crazy shit go ask arashi about trinity... and, me being a seeker of crazy shit, am asking, please?

Tom.


This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
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DeepSoulSheep
GOLD Member since Sep 2002

DeepSoulSheep

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Berlin

Total posts: 2617
Posted:Yea, I did a search and all.

I live in a world of infinite possibilities.

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DJ Dantana
BRONZE Member since Aug 2001

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Location: Stillwater, Ok. USA

Total posts: 1495
Posted:it is probably just another name for somethng we already do (like a spider/weave)

I never did figure out exactly what a trinity was


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bender
GOLD Member since Nov 2001

still can't believe it's not butter
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Total posts: 6979
Posted:i thought trinity was a guy.

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[Nx?]
BRONZE Member since Nov 2001

[Nx?]

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both

Total posts: 3749
Posted:maybe a fish?

This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
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DJ Dantana
BRONZE Member since Aug 2001

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Location: Stillwater, Ok. USA

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Posted:Bender, that's what most guys think...

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arashi


arashi

Pooh-Bah
Location: austin,tx

Total posts: 2363
Posted:crazy, i did a search too and it came up empty <img border="0" title="" alt="confused" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />





trinity is a subtle technique added over the spinning framework, getting out of the box and moving into higher complexity, and some asymmetry in constructs

still playing with them, they are relatively fresh on my table, there's just so much dancing to do and only so much time to do it...

basically doping ALL your moves, with 60 degree openings rather than parallel and perpendicular, including sets relative to each other, so turning is a whole new world, you pretend you are on a circular stage and spot out three points to stop your turns on and try to hit them. most people start doing their weaves trintiy by opening them into a V but stop there. so a trinity (edit;) MIRROR waistwrap seen from above would be shaped like a triangle. doing the moves with insides and inversions (my inversions, not the recent "upside down" gillie inversions a la glass)( <img border="0" alt="spank" title="" src="graemlins/spank.gif" /> on glass for using my word <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> ) is one of the places i've had the time to play around in, and i learned a lot. but trinities sure are fun. they show how subtle changes in technique open up new possibilities for move families, there's a couple of them in there, i promise. still looking around, we'll have to explore some, shall we?

EDITED_BY: arashi (1114638972)


-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.

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Glåss
PLATINUM Member since Nov 2001

Glåss

The Ministry of Manipulation
Location: Bristol

Total posts: 2523
Posted:Its dope concept, especially with insides and inversions like mr arashi says

Hey I was talking about inverted everything
everyone else was miss quoting me with inverse not inverted
that inverse i wrote (only once ) was a typo.
oops sorry
But it was in a piss take anyway.

not inversions, i reserve that for moves that have been turned inside out
which I got from cole, which he got from you.


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DJ Dantana
BRONZE Member since Aug 2001

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Location: Stillwater, Ok. USA

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Posted:sort of like when I first started doing 360 weaves spins. I wopuld only make it 270 degrees around the spin. so every two of them I would be facing the opposite direction while doing a forward weave. I can totaly see some awsome potential in that. So, you could face the audience directly with a forward weave and give them a reverse weave in the wall plane on BOTH sides (from their perspective anyways).

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Taniwha


member
Location: Aotearoa

Total posts: 138
Posted:Oh yea i like that. Im still having trouble with them though

[ 24. June 2003, 12:21: Message edited by: Raging Dragon ]


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coleman
SILVER Member since Aug 2002

coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay

Total posts: 7330
Posted:quote:Originally posted by Glss:

which I got from cole, which he got from you. inversions i got from arashi (and the fairies cat and lashes to an extent), but the 'buzzsaw weave' stuff (the move wot looks like its inside out), i got from me

it was bizarre though - arashi posted about them literally the week after i had nailed them - it was like i had this new move which was unlike anything else i spin, and hence i had no idea of how to even begin describing it and literally a few days later a description of the exact same crazy shit appears. with claims of even more beats!

i've got no idea where i got hyperloops from though. or isolations. oh, and where the hell did i learn waistwraps?!


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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DJ Dantana
BRONZE Member since Aug 2001

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Location: Stillwater, Ok. USA

Total posts: 1495
Posted:I first heard of hyperloops from you, coleman...

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bender
GOLD Member since Nov 2001

still can't believe it's not butter
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Total posts: 6979
Posted:damn, arashi! you have introducing something insane that i have never considered! even more, it doesn't involve midgets in daipers!!

[ 21. June 2003, 03:54: Message edited by: bender ]


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[Nx?]
BRONZE Member since Nov 2001

[Nx?]

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both

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Posted:so....

the weave is taken to a point (something we tried not to do before) and turns at 3 points in 360 degrees, so it would look like a triangle from above?

I think I understand...

N


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arashi


arashi

Pooh-Bah
Location: austin,tx

Total posts: 2363
Posted:yep. doesn't sound like much, does it? but try doing those inverted airwraps you're having trouble with, but try them trinity, and watch your eyes in the mirror cuz they will go like this

-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.

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DJ Dantana
BRONZE Member since Aug 2001

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Location: Stillwater, Ok. USA

Total posts: 1495
Posted:what is an inverted airwrap?

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arashi


arashi

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Location: austin,tx

Total posts: 2363
Posted:jesus, i used my terms cause i'm sorry but i still don't understand what you guys calls thes-es thingies-es for fugs sake i thought they were hyperloops and that meant a weave airwrap that goes "inverted" for even # of beats and comes out on the other side but i guess i am wrong and every airwrap is a hyperloop and so i have no friggin clue whut yoooood call em. the infamous maxi plus is all i know for sure, to me is an kind of inverted airwrap, that's the one i mean.
but coleman it's no mysterious force, i simply knew what would follow naturally as a move to figure out next based on what i figured out next while working on the moves you were working on, like maxi plus and isolations and buzzsaws and butterfly hyperloops or whatever you guys call the "jedi" move in butterfly form. it's all just natural evolutions, that's what i meant by the poi unfold to you, mathematical pathways are already there, the sacred geometry of the nuiverse is everywhere and stuff. and may your chakras glow brightly, let's all hold hands and oohmm now. i can only type so much and it is a friggin badass move and i thought you'd want to know it. did you get the 5 beat version yet? there's some cool stuff related to that one...


-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.

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DJ Dantana
BRONZE Member since Aug 2001

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Location: Stillwater, Ok. USA

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Posted:***mumbles something about arashi ranting incoherently***

calm down man yes, have some...

I haven't even come close to visualizing the 5 beat version that you were talking about earlier. ir just seams to be beyond my formidable text based visualization skills.

I love the way you mind works arashi, so mathmatical and such. Not like mine. I have to have a move smack me in the eye befor I can get it (most of the time)


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DJ Dantana
BRONZE Member since Aug 2001

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Location: Stillwater, Ok. USA

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Posted:when you get a chance, do you think you could try and explain the 5 beat one more time....


we eat and we drink and we smoke and we try!

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Glåss
PLATINUM Member since Nov 2001

Glåss

The Ministry of Manipulation
Location: Bristol

Total posts: 2523
Posted:Oh dear its one of those confusing and tidy up posts that asks more questions than it answers. sorry bit of an epic, I wouldnt bother reading it if I were you:rolleyes:

Inverted means upside down, so strictly an inverted weave would be a reverse weave ! so arashi :hugs: your confusing me a bit.
I was taking inversion as being related to all the stuff where a weave is turned inside out round through and between the arms and all that jazz.

I reckon at the moment its all a bit like this, but Im not picking my poi up to check:

Hyperloops: like weaves a hyperloop the characteristic member of the family has 3 beats in wrap ! , the video I posted was pretty naff, but I said that at the time, (actually its totally crap, I wouldnt go by that I'd like to edit it out, but I couldn't do them then and I still can only do them on a good day.)
3bt is symmetrical, dan, judging by what youve posted it isn't what you think it is.
There hasnt been a video of a 3bt hyperloop that Ive seen on HOP, or come to think of it anywhere.

Airwraps: the basic is hands at 3 and 9 oclock its got 2 beats, in the wrap, the hands stay still throughout see the glowsticking videos. After that you can add hand translations and extra goodies, etc. I think that ones clear. Hyperloops are part of the airwrap family. Airwraps are more fundamental.

2 beat hyperloops much easier (like 2 beat weave, this is what most people are doing), now understand them and can teach them, for an experiment we took newbie poi swinger who could only do 3bt weave, and taught him to do them in 15 minutes, not completely clean, but pretty consistent) they're not really that hard, theyre just different. Its half way between a hyperloop and an airwrap and easier than either.
Not symmetrical.

Hyperloops 4/6/8 beat which is what i would call Normally** mostly** call tangle buzzsaw in an airwrap or just a tangle buzzsaw (and for a while this was called maxi plus, but that was only a joke till worked out wtf it was ) or just tangle buzzsaw's. Symmetrical or asymmetrical as airwraps (can enter and exit inside or outside.) asymetrical as hyperloops
** terms and condtions apply

Hyperloop 5/7 beat. Based on 3bt. But I don't think that they are far beyond 3 beat, but that might be BS. I've only been able to do them on a few days occasions (been busy with a stick ) also symmetrical.

Isolations: I still haven't seen a video posted on hop which has isolations on it !! . (excluding smallboys, cos I haven't seen it yet, its downloading). yea theres a few with half isolations, which are sweet and much like clubswinging snakes, but not any isolations. and the only videos of me doing isolations that have been boot legging around are all a bit borderline. I wasnt so pickey then but, like Id call them (alright) half isolations now.
On the hand circle or inside it - isolation. No, I cant do them solidly, Ive only done them nicely on a couple of days, but most of my poi nowdays has been exploring post modernism.
Outside the hand circle half isolations (like snakes) aiming to get the heads as close to the hand circle as possible, cos it looks roughest
Aaaand. the point of isolations as a concept with ant prop is that something stays stationary while that which is supporting it moves, same with a ball, same with dancing. STATIONARY aim for dead on or dont bother. Its not, it moves a little bit, not - it wobbles slightly. It is stationary (for the purpose of this we define stationary, as moving less than other people can see).
No I cant do them most days.
(This is close to the concept, this is ryan who I train with, hes shit hot smooth now, the move is edisons enigma, its an isolation, but its not the move called an isolation, gedit- http://contactjuggling.org/moves/156.gif
london style contact but its a Canadian origin)
______________________________________________
I used to call them all this move or that one or judiths move or karines move, depeding on the friend that taught me. Or cross follow with an extra loop, or until i came here, HOP forces labels on moves, and Im not doing it anymore. Lables suck. The new way, its this one or that one. Just explorering the poi.

finally......
Isolations, airwraps, thru-wraps and hyperloops and quite a few of their lovely friends are all (part of) the same move.
Beats dont exist anymore, circles do, and the classical timing/directions are well out too (ignore the last two sentences if they don't make sense)

sorry about the catpigeon mess,
some of this might be wrong !!?!, I dunno, Im bit rushed this week to pick up poi and count beats
go play go think
Glass
(I'm out)


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DJ Dantana
BRONZE Member since Aug 2001

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Location: Stillwater, Ok. USA

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Posted:the main reason it helps to lable stuff is to comunicate in our texted based universe here on hop. I like the no lables-no beats aproach too, it gets so confusing with everybody and their dog coming up with new names for "old" moves... Glass, you should post a video of these "symetrical moves" (3 beat hyperloop). because, acording to my present theory, they don't work with inside (buzzsaw). anyways, I'lkl do some thinging and visualization and maybe it will come to me...thanks for the inspiring words...

we eat and we drink and we smoke and we try!

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arashi


arashi

Pooh-Bah
Location: austin,tx

Total posts: 2363
Posted:oh for fug's sake.
yeah, glass, that's what i mean by inverted, a buzzsaw is a basic follow time inversion. inverted "buzzsaw weave" (which is translation into hop language) i described elsewhere is another, inverted means buzzsaw, hands and planes are facing each other, between the arms. so maxi plus to me is a kind of inverted spider airwrap, and the bfly version is one which santana i spent all that time helping you with off board (or at least trying to help )
these moves are all connected, that's why they are all unfolding together right now. if you get the buzzsaw weave down, you'll see how. "buzzsaw weave" untranslated into my language again is a cross arm spider inversion. they are cousins, airwrap versions like maxi plus are simply crossed arm inversion that the arms are uncrossed before the "half isolation movement" happens. you can enter a maxi plus from a 2 beat, a 3 beat, even a 5+ beat, if you are bored enough. so to get to the 5 beat weave to cross arm inversion or it's cousin the 5 beat weave to inversion airwrap (or i guess glass would call it a 7 or 9 beat maxi plus, since he adds in the beats outside and inside together to make a grand total of beats.) just keep working on the "buzzsaw weave" otherwise known as 3 beat cross arm inversion, and then try doing it from a 5 beat. but counting, well, me i just go by what you did outside, and then you do an even # inside, then repeat the outside on the other side. so a 5 beat inverion is 5 beat weave, then something inside) (remember my breakdown of the bfly version of maxi plus in the jedi thread? reread it now, you will see how the cross arm inversion and airwrap inversion are related. also reread my inversions and insides thread)


-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.

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DJ Dantana
BRONZE Member since Aug 2001

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Location: Stillwater, Ok. USA

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Posted:ok, if I come up with something that I think is what you are talking about, I am going to make a video, and have you watch it and tell me if I got it correct, because I am visualizing something realy wierd, but it might be correct, if I can get it to work in real life....

we eat and we drink and we smoke and we try!

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[Nx?]
BRONZE Member since Nov 2001

[Nx?]

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both

Total posts: 3749
Posted:ARRRRRRRGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!

MY BRAIN IS GOING TO EXPLODE!!!


inverted/buzzsaw/5beat/hyperloop/trinity/****!

someone, is arashi saying I sould do buzzsaw hyperloop in trinity? if in trinity doies it go

forwards to
bakward to
forwards and you have turned 360 and the next turn is to bacwards
the forwards
them backwards again?


Glass, a: get some rest, b: is he actually letting go on that isolation?


T


This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti

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arashi


arashi

Pooh-Bah
Location: austin,tx

Total posts: 2363
Posted:trinity is a subtle change in the angles, it doesn't mean you have to be turning your body at all, there's just some cool stuff in the turns so i mentioned them. try this do the [edit; bfly] trinity inverted airwrap [edit; mirror] waistwrap while standing in place. first beat, 60 degrees inverted between the arms on the left, then the carry is straight across in front in wall plane, then last beat 60' inverted btwn the arms again on the right. that's the quickest bfly inverted airwrap, really it is a kind of [mirror] waistwrap, it's the main one santana does in his hyperloop vids, but as far as i know he is still opening his planes out horizontally which is unnecessary but hey whatever works, i think they look like snot running off a baby's butt they're so smooth when done right. the waistwrap takes it through the 180 degree turn necessary to untangle the butterfly airwraps. my philosophy is this. let's just get our lovely and enthusiastic santana wave to understand what we're talking about and then he can put it on a vid (ahem, in the simple windows media, right?) and then we can all see it, and have a visual reference.
EDITED_BY: arashi (1114639297)


-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.

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DJ Dantana
BRONZE Member since Aug 2001

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Location: Stillwater, Ok. USA

Total posts: 1495
Posted:Oh Brother!

actually I have managed to learn how to NOT open up my planes horizontaly, but it does make it easier in certain respects....



Oh the tangled web we weave....


we eat and we drink and we smoke and we try!

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coleman
SILVER Member since Aug 2002

coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay

Total posts: 7330
Posted:still no 5bt version yet arashi

have been working on spinning buzzsaws (inversions?) with my hands by the opposite elbows.
can pretty much spin it wrist around wrist at the moment.
i figure once i can spin round my upper forearms (might need some sketchy isolation type spinning to get them round), the five beat should sort itself out quite nicely...

i have a couple of quick questions on that inverted waistwrap trinity thingy. is the carry inverted? does the fact that everything is inside mean that you can lead out with either hand or or does that determine whether or not the carry is inverted?
i'm thinking fwd inversion on left @ 60deg into an inverted carry with left hand leading is going to twist my arms all wrong?

this stuff is weird

as for names... i don't know what you're all on about


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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DJ Dantana
BRONZE Member since Aug 2001

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Location: Stillwater, Ok. USA

Total posts: 1495
Posted:Ok, I came up with some WEIRD stuff yesterday. I got a 5 beat (using wrists) that I switch into an airwrap at the last second then into a buzzsaw and back out. I also got a 5 beat hyperloop where the arms are crossed at the elbows sticking out to the side (but I haven't got it to work right yet), give me some time though I think it is possible. I also got a WEIRD thing involving 5 beats and buzzsaws, except it is all in the wrists wraping around eachother (even for the buzzsaw part ). I haven't got that one perfect yet, but it is VERY close. I don't know if any of it is what you are talking about, but I'll post a video as soon as I can do it all consistently.

Arashi, BTW, did you check out the new version of "children at play"? It has the second version of the "downward conical airwrap spider throw", where I catch it into a butterfly, and immeadiatly afterwards it has the weave "ttn" variation (except it is NOT butterfly) I was talking about last year (but never published).

Coleman, I think I discovered that same move about a month ago, but never got around to filming it. It is a cool on yes? the poi have to be realy short though. Right?


we eat and we drink and we smoke and we try!

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[Nx?]
BRONZE Member since Nov 2001

[Nx?]

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both

Total posts: 3749
Posted:I have no-idea what anyone is talking about, cole, you better show me at glasto...


t


This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti

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coleman
SILVER Member since Aug 2002

coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay

Total posts: 7330
Posted:you don't need short chains for this dan.

on the transfer to the middle you can move the rotation down the string so that the poi head shoots straight up between your arm and your body and the poi comes up and over your forearm kinda isolated.

the way i spin it, two bits of it use an isolation type technique of moving the rotation away from the head - the standard 5bt wristcurl i replace with a no hands touching version of the 5bt by again moving the rotaion so that it is next to my opposite wrist.

my poi are generally the same length as normal (although they seem to be getting longer and longer every day!), maybe a twist around two fingers less, which is slightly longer than i can do a standard buzzsaw with.

[edit: will do tom (in exchange for a mc flurry lesson mind ). trinity waistwraps were getting caught on my armpits this weekend though - damn new stretchy poi ]

[ 24. June 2003, 03:25: Message edited by: coleman ]


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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[Nx?]
BRONZE Member since Nov 2001

[Nx?]

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both

Total posts: 3749
Posted:deal

This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti

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