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Forums > Advanced Poi Moves > inversions, insides, atomics, oh my!

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arashi


arashi

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Posted:edit; okay glass just smacked me in the head with the obvious notion that inverted means upside down as well as the definition i went by, in which inverted means; reversed, in a contrary direction. so i am considering changing my terminology, but i have edited this to make sense with the stuff in the trinity thread. i'm just warning you that i may change this post when i get the time to give a flying fart. anyway this will make sense for a little while til i can change things to confuse you again wink



first, the crossed arm inverted weaves, which add two beats to a odd number weave...

the counting on this is pretty tricky, since it comes out of a weave that already has beats. in general for beat counts i go by the # of beats on each side of the crossover, since that way you don't have to be symmetrical to have it make sense. but the crossover happens at the entrance into the inversion so i label the inverted weave by which weave position you came into it from. there's so many variations that this may make sense later.

first, try the 3 beat inverted weave, which is



3 beat weave, but the crossover goes between your arms instead of to the other side. your arms, you will notice, are crossed, so you have to do an split time isolation with both hands so the chains don't wrap your arms.



next try it out of the five beat, which makes a 5 beat inverted weave.



insides are like buzzsaws but are not between your arms, they are between your arms and your body. take a buzzsaw in front, and drop your hands to your sides. now the wicks come under your armpits, and the chains are inside your arms. you can take a bfly or a spider and inside them, so if you do a bfly in front, you bend forward and do it inbetween your arms and your tummy. do them in the side plane, too.

now if you take a buzzsaw, do it inside at your side, and the take it around your back, keeping the same buzzsaw plane direction the whole time, you have a BTB inside. now try that, with an inverted weave instead of a buzzsaw. ouch. wear a cup. or "box" if your british tongue



I have edited this title and post and cut out all the "buzzsaw" terms. Hope this makes more sense now!

EDITED_BY: arashi (1107654577)


-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.

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spiralx


spiralx

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Posted:Written by: arashi
grrr you guys are trying to suck me back in with g(r)eek talk


*innocent face*

Who, us?

Written by: arashi
actually i think the confusion started with me hurriedly writing the post and over translating into hop language when i really shouldn't have, the "buzzsaw" is a loaded word, inverted weaves leaves the meaning more open.


Agreed.

Written by: arashi
well if i uderstand what you mean, and we may actually be getting closer to understanding, seems like you are doing parts of 2 beat inversions at different points within a 5 beat, since the 5 is, really, different 2's and 4's put together, you can do the 2 beat inversions at different times within the 5 beat (and within the three beat also, of course, at the even times). and crossed arm inversions happen after the 3 and 5s.
with the even # inversions the inversions are "buzzsaws", but you don't have to do the buzzsaw with both wicks you can go back to the other weave by adding the 5 beat spider (5 beat hand motion)(which is of course the same really as one side of the 4 beat but never mind that) at the end. if i read you correctly, as you can see there's just too much... can't we just call them all notecoleman5's? ubbloco


Ok, now there's stuff. Crossed arm inversions happen after the hand movement at the point where you would normally have moved across the body... uncrossed interrupt the hand movement?

Written by: arashi
this even beat or notcoleman area goes with i guess you call them offset weaves? where we are offsetting inversions, offsetting parts of 2 beat inversions for instance
and anybody who doesn't understand the concept that a complete "4 beat weave" is actually two things put together... the 5 beat and the 3 beat... will just explode when they try to understand all the variations. the 5 beat and the 4 beat involve the same hand motion but act differently depending on the spider pattern you are in. i understand them and i get confused trying to explain it all.


Offset weaves - stuff like doing the 2 beat weave using a 5bt twist? I can see how that might relate to this stuff.

Written by: arashi
man it's getting light outside time for bed :insert vampire graemlin: darn you for sucking me back in


ubblol


"Moo," said the happy cow.

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coleman
SILVER Member since Aug 2002

coleman

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Posted:i think we're both on the same page arashi.



the thing that still seems weird to me is that first 3bt weave variation with a crossed arm inversion i describe above - i wanted to say it was a 2bt inverted weave but the hand motions on the outside are not those of a 2 bt weave...



i can spin a 2bt weave with 2bt of buzzsaw as the transfer from one side to the other but that doesn't involve the notbarrelroll - its just a buzzsaw...



can you spin a 2bt with the double cross arm inversion bit across to the other side?



i think i need to have a play with more even beat stuff after reading your post again dude but for now (just to be sure we're on the same track), i'll just make sure that we're not talking about 'normal' buzzsaw beats anywhere here - all of the variations i am talking about are the ones with single beats of cross arm inversions.



until tomorrow compadres - i gotta go see about a girl ubblove ubbrollsmile ubblove


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i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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spiralx


spiralx

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Posted:Written by: coleman
can you spin a 2bt with the double cross arm inversion bit across to the other side?


I think so if it's an offset 2bt weave... because then you're in the 5bt hand position and thus are crossed.


"Moo," said the happy cow.

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spiralx


spiralx

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Posted:Written by: spiralx
over-under-inside (the standard 3bt)
same-inside-under
same-over-inside



Ok...

same-inside-under seems like it might be antispin..

Code:
L R
Inside
Same
Under
Inside
Same
Under

I think. Or at least there's going to be separations. In fact, this might even be an isolated weave if the separation is right.

Now for same-over-inside...

Code:
L R
Over
Same
Inside
Over
Same
Inside

This looks definitely doable smile


"Moo," said the happy cow.

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Rev
BRONZE Member since Mar 2003

Rev

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Posted:ok.. now that I've had a chance to look things over...



a few things I have may be pertinent or not



1) sprial yes its very much like anti-spin which is why I've been pushing so many people on it.. because it finally gets even newbies to see past the terms -weave-, -buzzsaw-, etc.. because thought it looks liek a weave and has the reverse weave hand motions to a forward spin its really just doing the right side of an inverted weave on the left side of your body no? I mean what you ahve psoted up there looks pretty antispin to me.. now the reason I'm on abbout anti-spin isnt a new move..but a new way at looking at something we already do so to speak.. to see the concept as more then just the way the poi spin since it was something we were doing anyway and never really caught on.. you know..



2) the two beat but being cross armed.. I could be wrong I'd have to go pick up my poi by my antispin (nipS for short) 2bt weave.. is a two bt with inverted hands for the most part which results in me having to cross over my left arm from under in order to get into the buzzsaw at all.. again I'll have to go spin my poi and get back to you guys after I run my errands..



oh wait.. now that Ithink about it.. the nipS two beat is the twisted up 5bt with a 2bt then done.. .. yup.. spot on..



3) we're talking about poi again.. ra..



4)coleman.. I'm not sure.. but these anti-spun butterfly and ttn's that I've been doing may help with some the questions you have above... I havent' really played with it enough to know if or how it would though..

(antispun 4bt ttn for the record.. start with and inverted butterfly, ie right hand on top on left side.. left hand under on the right side. spinning a forward butterfly.. then take the right hand up, pull back towards you and to the right.. then push back under the left hand.. then take the left hand and lift up, pull back and to the left.. and then push under.. basically reverse ttn motions with a forward ttn.. )

EDITED_BY: Rev (1087491370)


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arashi


arashi

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Posted:quick question...
spiral what does "same" mean in your diagrams?


-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.

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Rev
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Rev

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Posted:coleman- on the butterfly whatnot.. I played around today andI went from a reverse butterfly into a straight jacket (where my arms are folded indian style) and for the purpose of this discussion the right arm came under the left aand back over into the buzzsaw pushed through to the left side of the body.. during the buzzsaw into sstraight jacket, the left hand just kept its butterfly motion to the outside (right side), then followed to the left side.. where the process kinda unwound on the other side now.. I've been kinda working the other two more or less equally to get out of it.. but I didn't have neough time to really play that long..

is the something like what you meant by taking one across.. or rather how you meant taking one at a time? I'll see what I can do about getting a diagram up..


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arashi


arashi

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Posted:on the notcoleman note (this is mostly for other people reading this, i think we all understand each other)
went and read blue's description and remembered again what it actually is...
my post above (written pertaining to the other kind of inverted weaves, the super simple ones that are just like 2 beat weaves where one wick leads the whole time) was going on straight up not rolled inversions, patterned into a weave, although my older posts on the the notcoleman were pertinent before i forgot which move they were redface

the notcoleman is sort of like an offset though, i think the theory on my last post still applies. the two kinds of crossarm inversion that i am aware of at least, as i said when we first realised what we are talking about months ago, are following and leading, yours is following, the example i started this off with was leading. those names kinda suck though so i am open to more mathematical descriptions.

basically the "notcoleman" one goes around the arm like a longarm, the center point of rotation is the opposite of an isolation, which there is no word for but i've been calling a longarm. it's really a miniature longarm with no actual arm involved, your hand traces the curve the arm would make. the "leading" ones i described were isolated, to roll around the arms.
and (for the deepsoulsheep) the puzzle i threw out was to think of ways to go from isolated inversions directly to "longarm" inversions, and vice versa, both which you can do infinitely.
(goes off to try to figure out this inverted bfly anti spin business)


-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.

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Mr_Jedly
GOLD Member since Jan 2004

Mr_Jedly

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Posted:Written by: arashi

a miniature longarm with no actual arm involved,



So this is nothing then? ubblol
arg i have lots of practice infront of me. 36 different versions of this: weavesmiley


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We grow old because we stop playing.

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MikeIcon
GOLD Member since Mar 2003

MikeIcon

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Posted:Written by:
So this is nothing then?



I dunno bout that but whatever it is/isnt, we know its long...



I havent been keeping up with this thread and dont have time at the moment to catch up so I really dont know what has been discussed but this reply is in response to Arashi's last post about the longarm business...



Ive always considered a notcoleman a non-tangled hyperloop buzzsaw. They both do the same exact thing cept one spins around the chains and one spins around your arms. I guess you could say that the hyperloop version is actually the isolated one since the point of rotation is halfway down the chain... But I see what youre saying and I think we're both right???



Speaking of which, I wanna see if I can do a non-tangled wall plane air wrap... Which would be half inverted I guess... But since this is the inverson thread and thats the only other inverted type weave I can think of, its probably already been mentioned and I just havent read bout it yet. Feel free to smack me smile


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We'll blaze a new trail,
and torch the rough patches.

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MikeIcon
GOLD Member since Mar 2003

MikeIcon

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Posted:Well, after a few mins practice I think Im on to something (not saying its new cuz I still have yet to read the thread). I can do the inside beats of the non-tangled air wrap but end up getting my poi caught on my arm on the way out. I did, however, just learn an easy way into straight jackets smile Hopefully tomorrow Ill figure out how to get out of the air wrap thing... as well as read the previous posts of this thread wink



Thanks for the inspiration Arashi ubblove


Let's turn those old bridges we crossed into ashes.
We'll blaze a new trail,
and torch the rough patches.

-Me

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DeepSoulSheep
GOLD Member since Sep 2002

DeepSoulSheep

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Posted:Written by:
the center point of rotation is the opposite of an isolation, which there is no word for but i've been calling a longarm. it's really a miniature longarm with no actual arm involved,



I'm wondering about this. I was playing with this stuff last night and was, for about 2 minutes convinced that I had spun an isolated weave with the poi spinning forward and my hands isolating backwards.

I tried to go back to what I'd originally been working on (isolated anti-spin weave). When I went back to this it would only stall when I moved my hands backwards and figured I was stoned and gettting confused. I was thinking last night in bed ( rolleyes) that if my hand circles where bigger than than the poi circles then it should've isolated like long arms the opposite way as the poi spins and maybe I wasn't crazy after all. I should've got out of bed tto check... biggrin

Does this make any sense to anyone? Is this the same thing you're talking about regarding long arm Arashi.


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spiralx


spiralx

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Posted:Written by: arashi

quick question...
spiral what does "same" mean in your diagrams?


Sorry, it's where the poi is spinning where your hand is on it's own side of the body. So left poi spinning to the left of your body smile


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arashi


arashi

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Posted:i think deepsoul sheep that you mean something else, isolation and using the slack times during the isolation to move your hands against the grain to another place and starting up the isolaton again. perhaps? is that what you guys mean by anti spin? if so you must be drinking lots of coffee cause that's fast work. if so then then yes anti spin is useful for bfly-esque inversions, but that isn't what i thought anti spin was. you would have to isolate the anti spin if you want an inverted bfly weave, but i still don't think the barrel roll would happen, the wick would just float under your arms. but that doesn't seem like anti spin, that's just floating inversions around. man that makes no sense.
the longarm i meant is much more basic. it's just like a longarm but maybe we could change the name to "concentric" cause all your doing is describing a circle with your fingertips that is smaller than the wick circle, but at the same times, 12:00 and 12:00, not opposite timing like the isolation 12:00 and 6:00,


-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.

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coleman
SILVER Member since Aug 2002

coleman

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Posted:i get ya, but if you are spinng the notcoleman5 the same way i do, the inverted beat should be leading (i.e. isolated for the cross arm inversion around the other arm).



you can do the move without isolations and use the concentric type effect to extend the radius of the poi and move your hand away from the centre of rotation (which essentially is the other arm/wrist).



but as spiral described, you can do this for a notbarrelroll too, its just quite fast and the timing is tricky.


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i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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spiralx


spiralx

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Posted:Written by: arashi
the longarm i meant is much more basic. it's just like a longarm but maybe we could change the name to "concentric" cause all your doing is describing a circle with your fingertips that is smaller than the wick circle, but at the same times, 12:00 and 12:00, not opposite timing like the isolation 12:00 and 6:00,


So...

C H---------------O

C being the centre rotation, H your hand and O the poi head? And H rotates around C so that it's always directly between C and O?


"Moo," said the happy cow.

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coleman
SILVER Member since Aug 2002

coleman

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Posted:yeah, nice one smile

ascii diagrams do help!


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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spiralx


spiralx

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Posted:Heheh, sometimes wink

And yeah, "concentric" is definitely a better way to describe it I reckon. Longarm is a bit too close to straightarm and other such thingies smile


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Rev
BRONZE Member since Mar 2003

Rev

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Posted:ok guys.. I ahve jsuit a few quick comments.. as always becaus I feel I should psot some other stuff.. and then come back to this with frsh thought..

1) this is probably my complete newb ingorance.. BUT I thought the inverted (buzzsaw) weave.. let me rephrase that.. what was deomnstrated to me as a buzzsaw weave (slightly isolated although I loathe to call it that since its more of using the curvature of a spiral of the poi entering sort of a free fall befroe the barrel roll (which again I'm sorry for reusing that term as well)) I think this is somewhat what arashi meant with the inverted weave. and I thought the nc5 was different because it only had one poi in the middle..
now with that in mind.. the isolation allows one to sprial it around the arm when doing the 'roll' motion.. thus alloing the wrsit of one arm to go -as far as- the elbow of the other.. if you don't isoalte they cross a the wrists and the wrist roll around each other.. or you can keep pulling your hands even further aprat and get alas a tangled buzzsaw.. (I'm using that erm since hyperloop for some has other connotations and I'm trying to not be confusing.. succeding at that is left to interpretation) but essentially all the same thing..

2) the antispin stuff (nipS for short).. I'm starting a fresh thread of just the anti basics.. because a nips 2bt weave vs a regular two beat weave are vir5tually identical save the hands.. and the butterfly is the same way.. you dont' really notice the big difference until you apply it to more complex ptterns.. ie. the 4bt ttn and the 3 and 5bt weaves.. so I have diagramed those out and will cut that post from spherc... so please look towards that as a reference on the anti things.. I think they help because and spiral maybe you can back me on theis.. the left side hand motions of the nisp weave are like the right side motions of what I discuss point 1 above..

3) I ahve already forgotten point 3.. but let me cut those posts over to hop..


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arashi


arashi

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Posted:EDIT: I JUST REREAD THIS POST AND IT IS EVIL. I TOTALLY PUT THE WRONG TERMINLIOGY IN THIS POST. EVERYWHERE THERE IS NOW A * PLEASE INSERT THE WORD INSIDE INSTEAD OF INVERTED. PROBLEM IS, THAT MAKES IT MORE CONFUSING AND IT WON'T MAKE SENSE UNLESS YOU KNOW THE DISTINCTION. SORRY. it may help to just skip this post...



brushes off dust

sage out of town, frown less rehearsals for me, so i have a little time to geek out.



anyone tried crossarms to crossarm inversions yet? isolate both poi under and over the arms before going into a full inversion (full meaning arms as the center point) creates a cool cascade effect, with the arms slowly coming together and separating. so try normal crossarm(crosser/straightjacket?), isolated *inversions* with arms one over the other, then full crossarm inversion, then the other-forearm-on-top isolated *inversions*, to outside. IOW the left side(right poi) would go: crossarm out on the left side, 2. *inversion* under the left forearm, inversion, *inversion* over the left forearm, crosser to right side. and the left poi does the vice versa. if you start doubling up the isolated inversions you can create a very spiffy pattern in the air. does that make sense?



did anybody get to play with butterfly inversions yet? i'd love to know if there's a way to do a full inversion bfly without a stall or wrap. i have some ideas, i'm going to play with it tonight. yes, i'm actually going to play with my chains, it's been a while!

EDITED_BY: arashi (1108191102)


-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.

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Rev
BRONZE Member since Mar 2003

Rev

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Posted:we've been talking about butterfly inversions on and off at spherc.. basically have uncrossed inversions.. but not the crossed ones yet.. a matter of time I think.. I managed to bounce into and out of a butterfly straight jacket.. or close to it.. basically it made my arms tangle liek the sj without actually forming one.. its all in getting the path of the poi to change every slightly so that they can make their arcs.. without tangling.. hella arm bending though..


now a questiion... crossarm? you put crosser/straight jacket... are they crossed.. or they done SJ style where they are tanlged (knotted)...


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arashi


arashi

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Posted:whoops scratch that i guess i mean just "crossers". don't know what a straightjacket means. that's was why the "?" was there.

-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.

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tenticle


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Posted:straightjacket is an inverted crosser, in my way of thinking. you can get into it by inverting a weave on one side, and following the poi with your hands like you would with a buzzsaw weave, but then not bringing the trailing poi through the gap between your arms, and turning around the other way instead. (same as with a normal one, where the lead poi crosses and instead of following it with the trailing one, you leave it where it is and turn around.)
nomal crosser to straight jacket is an ugly, ugly move. there are too many bits that need to be kind of isolated but not quite to fit, so i can only do it spinning really slowly, which means there's hardly any momentum left for the straight jacket part, which means i can't do the half isolation things to get out again properly, let alone back into crosser...
as for butterfly crossers, i havn't worked out a sensible way to do them yet. i can do crossed arms butterfly in front to crossed arms butterfly bth, but i cant do a bfly weave style version.

-ben


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Rev
BRONZE Member since Mar 2003

Rev

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Posted:
if you can inverted weave... you can move in and out of straight jackets with ease... just use the same movement that you use to isolate a buzzsaw weave, and pull your arms tight as you turn.. hooks right in..

as for entering them from a crosser.. it really depends on where that crosser is located... some are easier then others.. but if you can spin inside, (like pulling inside rather then outside like on a ttn for example) then you should have no problem moving between most of the upper body crossers.. even works well fro getting from SJ to SJ..

that's just my take..

just now getting more heavy into the inverted butterfly stuff.. so I'll get back on that one when I've gotten a bit better.. I've kinda posted my bit on that already..

and on the butterfly crossers... I get into them just like I get into normal crossers.. I use the ttn motion and to disjunct the poi.. like from a 4bt ttn... take the right over the left... then push it back to the rear right plane.. simple enough... now if yo do it with the ttn on the right side plane.. like from a bf weave.. it goes straight into a crosser.. with the left arm in the right arm pit.. and the right arm btb left side.. with varations galore.. the coming out is a bit tricky for me sometimes though since bf isn't my strong point..

arashi- never heard it called crossarm before.. didn't know what you meant.. I've been playing with weaving between my crossers I guess is how you put it.. rather then holding them I'm just kinda using all the different ways of spinning to twist, pull, and push the poi wherever I can make them go..


quick question though... doesn inverting a corser put you into a SJ? or do the hand over hand roll.. depending on the hand leading?


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arashi


arashi

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Posted:offtopic ubbrollsmile ummm... just curious... what plane is the straightjacket IN? is it a ("crosser") crossarm btb? or is it just a three beat inversion infinite? telling me how to get INTO it doesn't tell me what it is... i'm still not sure what it is and a search was inconclusive. oh wait now you say it is "tangled" too? i'm afraid i missed out on the SJ talk.

-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.

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Dragon7
GOLD Member since Oct 2003

Dragon7

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Posted:Its EXACTLY the same as a cross. Its just that they are using a more tech way of :



A) Crossing their arms



B) Doing mostly b-fly variations.



There was a clip on this raver site somewhere...ill see iv i can find it



Example Cross your arms "indian" style, and thats what they are doing but using poi at the same. There are also btb and bth.



More of a *contortionist* move than anything alse.



So to recap..same as a cross just a different name.

EDITED_BY: Dragon7 (1092016447)


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arashi


arashi

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Posted:oh.
i still didn't get to play. went dancing to some GOOD dancehall reggae hip-hop and today went to a movie about burning man. bounce

still i wonder if there's a way to go into the butterfly inversion from a crossarm that's got a counter directional rotation so that the "inverted beats" are an unwinding bfly. like a cat's cradle. maybe a crossarm inversion, that enters your arms as they are crossed twice, by intersecting the wicks-with isolations-at the center of your arms, and exits with them undoing the knot usually created by bfly inversions. i believe tilted conicals would have to come in play somehow for an antigravity effect. and i'm thinking 7 beat butterfly position may be involved in other ways too. ubbloco


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Rev
BRONZE Member since Mar 2003

Rev

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Total posts: 1269
Posted:ok..

#1- the sj... a tangled buzzsaw imagine your arms doign what the the tanlge does... in other words they are folded... right arm under left hand, over left forearm, and under left bicep... left arm over right hand ,under right forearm, and over right bicep.. now that your arms are tangled up like that you can weave like a crosser.. (each poi on opposite side.. you know the drill)its a crosser.. but more complicated.. a crosser simply crosses sides.. this actually knots the arms..



#2 this is way premature.. because I havent had plenty of time to work out any kinks if there are any.. and It'll be a few days before I get a chance ot make a clip but I think.. key word think.. I found a crossed inverted bf weave.. its based on the clip in my split threading thread.. starting with whats in that clip:

the right poi comes over the left arm and comes up in the chest plane (inner), as the left comes inside (buzzsaw) and over the right arm turn your body 90 degrees.. this puts the left coming up in the buzzsaw (rather then inner [chest] plane) and it puts the right also coming into the buzzsaw (and thus the crossed part of the inverted weave..) you then turn another 90 degrees.. the left poi spins a beat outside while the right poi does a beat inside... at this poin both poi should be in the wallplane ready to do a rev ttn or rev split thread, before going back the other way..



now.. this has 4 buzzsaw swings back to back.. Left buzzsaw (splithtread) right and left (?)buzzsaw (inverted weave) and then the right buzzsaw (splitthread?)



If you check the split thread clip and description, there should be now problem follwing what I'm trying to say... otherwise it might be a little sketchy.. so I'm sorry on that..



edit: ok.. I don't think I typed this out right at all.. and I'm sorry but I have no consistency in it yet.. I think it does more of a left inside right inside right inside.. (left inside as part of the splitthread, right inside crossed inverted, right inside part of rev split thread.. ) I don't know.. when I do though I'll post.. at least this can give people something to play with.. myabe you guys can figure it out..

EDITED_BY: Rev (1092070434)


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Rev
BRONZE Member since Mar 2003

Rev

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Posted:ok I'm making a clip of a crossed inverted bf weave..

not like I described above.. I found a much simpler way...

basically..
one clip.. will have the move I based it on.. whihc is a ttn of sorts.. from a forward butterfly, birng the right over the left armand up in the buzzsaw.. if you isolate it a little. you can swing the left poi through the buzzsaw and over the right.

bringing the left through the buzzsaw part after the right lets the arms cross but then uncross without stalling,stopping, wrapping, etc.. its basicalyl like bouncing a butterfly to an inverted(?) [between the elbows] butterfly and back, done at a timing that makes the transition pass easier (closer to split time..)

anyway... that was the base..

the second clip I'm making.. shows a forward butterfly on my right.. I then take the right over the left arm and up in the buzzsaw... the left poi passes through the buzzsaw (barely) so that they don't tangle.. into a rev butterfly on the left..

now.. to get the thing in the first clip to apply well enough in the second clip (given the limited space between the elbows and what not.. ) I lean a litte so that my rightt arm is almost parallel with the left arm under it.. they arent' parallel, but practically next to each other with the right over the left.. this gives a little more clearance to get the left poi to pass between the arms enough to not tanlge with the right poi..

I know that's hard to follow from text.. but my post before this..well can be scratched.. those are much harder then this.. I'll get these two clips hosted as soon as I can..


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Rev
BRONZE Member since Mar 2003

Rev

Bastard Newbie Messiah
Location: Apparently lost in my ego, USA

Total posts: 1269
Posted:clip 1- is as described.. but with a second part at the end that shows what a whole ttn would look like..

clip 2- is VERY sloppy.. because socks dont spin as nice as sticks.. but from what I understand this helps.. so I'm posting it anyway..

clip3- is clip 2 done at half speed.. (so that people can really see how sloppy it is.. but at least see where the poi are suppsoed to go.. )


clip 1 (right click, save as)
clip 2 (right click, save as)
clip 3 (right click, save as)


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