Forums > Advanced Poi Moves > inversions, insides, atomics, oh my!

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arashi
arashi

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Location: austin,tx
Member Since: 21st Mar 2002
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Posted:edit; okay glass just smacked me in the head with the obvious notion that inverted means upside down as well as the definition i went by, in which inverted means; reversed, in a contrary direction. so i am considering changing my terminology, but i have edited this to make sense with the stuff in the trinity thread. i'm just warning you that i may change this post when i get the time to give a flying fart. anyway this will make sense for a little while til i can change things to confuse you again wink



first, the crossed arm inverted weaves, which add two beats to a odd number weave...

the counting on this is pretty tricky, since it comes out of a weave that already has beats. in general for beat counts i go by the # of beats on each side of the crossover, since that way you don't have to be symmetrical to have it make sense. but the crossover happens at the entrance into the inversion so i label the inverted weave by which weave position you came into it from. there's so many variations that this may make sense later.

first, try the 3 beat inverted weave, which is



3 beat weave, but the crossover goes between your arms instead of to the other side. your arms, you will notice, are crossed, so you have to do an split time isolation with both hands so the chains don't wrap your arms.



next try it out of the five beat, which makes a 5 beat inverted weave.



insides are like buzzsaws but are not between your arms, they are between your arms and your body. take a buzzsaw in front, and drop your hands to your sides. now the wicks come under your armpits, and the chains are inside your arms. you can take a bfly or a spider and inside them, so if you do a bfly in front, you bend forward and do it inbetween your arms and your tummy. do them in the side plane, too.

now if you take a buzzsaw, do it inside at your side, and the take it around your back, keeping the same buzzsaw plane direction the whole time, you have a BTB inside. now try that, with an inverted weave instead of a buzzsaw. ouch. wear a cup. or "box" if your british tongue



I have edited this title and post and cut out all the "buzzsaw" terms. Hope this makes more sense now!

EDITED_BY: arashi (1107654577)


-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.

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arashi
arashi

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Location: austin,tx
Member Since: 21st Mar 2002
Total posts: 2363
Posted:ubbidea ubbidea
bounce bounce2 bounce bounce2
figured it out. NOW with hindsight it seems so obvious!
do a complete bfly inverted airwrap, backwards- without airwrapping-use the SJ instead of airwrap during the outside beats

thanks for the SJ instruction rev biggrin that move's been teasing me for quite a while


-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.

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arashi
arashi

Pooh-Bah
Location: austin,tx
Member Since: 21st Mar 2002
Total posts: 2363
Posted:yo! rev! the tofurkey's steaming! biggrin
the mayshed buttaytas is hot!
pass the gravy!



points up to a resplendent circus looking decorated archway over the entrance to the thread with lights and painted people in 1920's attire which reads "blah bla blah"
wave


-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.

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Rev
Rev

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Posted:ok I ahve anumber of things I want to list here and PLEASE GOD bare with me because I ahvent' had timeall week to really come thoruhg here and really dont have much time now.. do not get offended arashi.. please read my whole post..

"2)(sorry rev i don't want you to think i'm talking around you but he asked, hopefully you will read this answer too.) " - arashi
no porblems.. I skipped you over to try and keep the discussion moving since I never saw a need for the bickering that god laid down and wasnt' wasting anymroe time on it..

"well i hope but unfortunately i can't seem to get him to try to do what i'm talking about or answer my question so i don't know for sure. so this is all still just words. and as i just said a paragraph ago, it'd really help if i knew, if this move DID condense down to be an inside move then yes. i'm pretty sure these moves are the same. if they aren't i won't know until he tells me." -arashi (which should be followed by the quote of you syaing you perfectly well undersand what I'm doing but I wont.. )
perhaps I missed something.. see.. I explained in the first clip.. the one that doesnt even do anything special.. the clip that was the base.. that as a base for the movements in the crossed vid, I would use a slightly off timing on bringing a bf from outside.. to inbetween the elbows, back to outside.. however rather then bounce the bf like that.. I just squished it into a more comforatble threading motion..
so yes the root of this move.. as far as the hand motions go are plain and simple like the bouncing in and roll over and out.. I've said it several times.. I'm not even sure if I'm on the page everyone else is.. my head is REALLY f'd up this week..


nowI didnt' raise those as argument.. I raised those points because I want to stress that I wasnt' getting pissy man.. (unitl after I got yelled at) I understand I misused the terms.. but in other respects I didnt.. and that's the only point I wanted to make because I wasnt clear on 'inverted with respect to what' as you wanted until now.. and please do bare with me because I think I followed the discussion there after but was mainly skimming through.. I'm sure I have a lot on the split thread umm thread..


now.. somethings I wanted to say that are already known lol.. or wnated to bring up at least that are porbably moot..

the split thread.. that hit me when I wanted something that made use of the inner (is that the right term that's what I've always used) pplnae and the outer plane.. and kinda threaded them together,.. I made the comment that part of this thing buzzsaws, because I feel refer to any swing that passes between the elbows, as buzzsaw.. and do understand that that was pushing the term.. but I needed a way to distinguish the inner (under arm) from inside (buzzsaw like) part.. it was after weaving the spplit threads that I uncovered how relatively easy it was to not stop on the inner (underarm) beat and rather psuh through into the SJ.. but instead it SJ'd like a second and then came right out.. because of the threading of the outside inside outside butterfly motions.. which lead me to that crossed bf thing which made feel so frickin stupid.. because there it was.. a butterfly weaving using the 3bt inversion handmotiosn... frickin basics go figure..

now..
what is this that you've figured out that has made you not hate my guts again? because I'm really glad we've moved past that point YET AGAIN and hope that we don't go down that road again.. wink please though bare with me on this have we figured out the other one.. the one that actually uses butterfly hand motions and gets the bf crossed thing/...


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Rev
Rev

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Posted:its that time again folks...



ok.. so if you wanted to invert an antispin.. say an antispin with forward spinning poi.. then what you would need is to spin -through- the inverted part with reverse hand motions to complement the forward spin right?



so lets start on the left side.. the poi spinning forward.. the left hand goes under the right (ala 3bt antispin).. now if you turn your torso to the right as you push the left under (the right poi should be spinning over the left shoulder).. now the tricky part.. get the left to swing over the right arm so that it comes down inside the left bicep and under the right bicep.. the right poi will then come down inside the left bicep .. now your on the right side.. and the right hand pulls over the left arm and pushed under.. turn your torso to the left... the left poi should be spinning over the right shoulder.. the right poi then spins back over the left arm and down inside of the right bicep.. and pushes out to the left (under the left bicep) and pull the left through the inside.. lather... rinse... and lather again you dirty people.. wink j/k...



I don't know how close to the antispin inversion is.. it seems off to me.. but everytime I find a fault.. I find I'm wrong.. so if someone has this already.. help me out.. if not give a spin.. sorry no clip at this time.. my socks fell out of my books sack at school.. so I'll make some new ones when I get the chance... the only thing I can say.. is if you look at the inverted bf weave.. one hand antispins through the inverted part... take a gander at that... again.. this one works by body movement.. I lurve body movement.. make them poi go where they dont fit.. wink


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Rev
Rev

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Posted:no takers...

well that one I think is right.. almost 100% sure, but it seems too easy, but I'm pretty sure is right.. this next one.. I'm not so sure about..but at least 75%.. give or take a quirk

the 5bt antispin inversion..

on the left side with the poi spinning forward, the right poi comes under the left arm to the front and back over the left arm to the back and back under the left arm from the back side...now at this point it should come up inside the left bicep (and thus between the arms) and then back over the left bicep (and thus to the outside left) where it then leads across to the right side.. and of course on the other side you do the mirror.. left hand comes under the right to the front and back over the right to the back and back under the right from the back inside the right bicep and back over the right bicep to the outside where it then leads across to the left side..

bounce


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arashi
arashi

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Posted:In about 2 months i'm gonna be able to tackle all these "antispin" descriptions.
until then does anybody understand what i mean by threading parallel weaves? is anti spin the same as threading a parallel weave contrary to the direction of wick's spin, like slowly going from a right hand on top clockwise parallel to a left hand on top clockwise parallel? god i hope so cause i really don't want to have to read all these antispin posts on hop and spherculism wink


-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.

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spiralx
spiralx

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Posted:Yup, that sounds right to me. Parallel antispun weaves though? Sounds tricky ubblol

"Moo," said the happy cow.

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cainebaby
cainebaby

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Posted:hey people, i'm just wondering does anyone know of a place that sells poi and fire staff equiptment in the uk close to Nottingham, or at least in the east middlands? i broke my dam poi and it won't be fixed, dam them!... but the only place i know is too expensive and it's a bit shoddy... stuff just doesn't last long!

what kind of victory is it when someone is left defeted?

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Richee
HOP librarian
Location: Prague
Member Since: 15th Jan 2002
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Posted:Well I think all the Poi stories here are interesting. But for those like me that have no more time to spent with internet to read it all will really, really help short video cuts. I know not allof u have cam. me too.
Well ,then I will read it part ot part i hope i'll understand smile


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Rev
Rev

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Posted:Written by: arashi


In about 2 months i'm gonna be able to tackle all these "antispin" descriptions.

until then does anybody understand what i mean by threading parallel weaves? is anti spin the same as threading a parallel weave contrary to the direction of wick's spin, like slowly going from a right hand on top clockwise parallel to a left hand on top clockwise parallel? god i hope so cause i really don't want to have to read all these antispin posts on hop and spherculism wink







welcome back there buddy.. I knew you couldnt stay gone for long...



1- parallel antispin was discussed in a thread by poi box last year... around this time give or take a month... he brought it up orginally as taking a same direction butterfly (ie both poi spinning same time, same direction which makes the x like a butterfly when you look down from the top..) and talked about moving the hands around backwards (or counter to the spin) hard as ^&*% if you ask me.. but I suck with sametime...



the antispin I'm tlaking about is simple to understand arashi, because it sounds ahrder than it is.



when you do a 5bt staight arm (normal spin) weave.. hold your left arm straight and the right armcomes around.. now lets exagerate this a bit.. as your right arm comes around make it come around parallel with the elbow.. now on the rightr side hold your right arm straight and have the left arm spin parallel to the right elbow.. this should drill the point (that you already know) about who when you twist a weave one hand spins outside and one hand spin inside...



I bring that up because antispin is confusing to people that don't know that.. because what happens is you are going to take that same straight arm weave... but instead of going with the spin I want yoou to go counter to the spin.. so that to use the example above, your left hand is straight, and your right hand is going to spin forward, but come from under the left armto the insideand back over the left arm...so that your hand is going in a reverse motion, but your poi are spinning forward.. most people think that that is somehow 'cheating' because they haven't noticed how one hand spins inside during a weave normally..



that's all there is to antispin.. now theres a bit of a misnomer.. the 3bt antispin uses the 3bt hand motions.. and the 5bt uses a 5bt weave hand motions.. because ideally you can do them in 3 and 5 bts respectively.. however, for the most part, (and more comfortably) it will take more.. since the 3bt will hapen in 5 and the 5 in 7.. mainly because of the pulliong under and going back over of an arrm takes two circles comfortably rather then the one circle..





now.. when I talk about the inversions... I was doing my inversions way long ago wrong... because I was ending up antispinning but then normal spinning part of my inversions.. and then going back to antispin.. however, I've since realized this err.. and have moved towards antispinning (which comes from the crossed inverted bf weave..) I have since noticed that you can move a reverse inversion hand motions with forward spinning poi.. given it takes body movement to get it to work.. the 3bt isnt so bad.. the 5bt however is hell even for my short @$$ strings..



hopefully you'll find this helpful and descriptive.. otherwise.. shrug



edit... and jsut something to think about... butterfly weaves have a bit of antispin in them.. however ttns do not... so you actually can antispin a ttn.. its a small difference though but a significant difference none the less.. for example.. on a forward 4bt ttn.. my right hand comes over the left and pushes under and out.. and my left hand comes from under and goes over, back under and pushes out.. well instead.. you can take the right hand and pull inside and push under and out, and take the left hand and pull it over, inside, under and out.. perhaps spiral can explain that one better since noone has ever understood me on that one.. other than him, and people in person..

EDITED_BY: Rev (1098285062)


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Durbs
Durbs

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Posted:Hmm - now I consider myself quite up-to-date with poi lingo, and I'm not a terrible spinner, but I've just read all 4 pages of this and am still utterly confused:

a) What is "inverted"? Glass is right - it means upside down. But from the first few pages I thought it was where the un-tangle was on the inside, not on the outside. If so, what does the "inside" part in the title imply?
b) What's the difference between a notcoleman5 and an inverted 5bt inside weave? Or are they the same thing?
c) Are inverted weaves in anyway similair to anti-spin weaves?


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[Nx?]
[Nx?]

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Posted:yo rev.

you is so totally right. i think.... lol.

anti spin is weird to count beats in, because you move against the poi the beats come faster, or at least thats how it fels to me (to see what i mean try normal flower airwraps then anti-spin flower aiwraps and see how much sooner the intersections occur. I think its 180 degrees sooner, but im not shure.) but i do my weave in the '3' beats.

T wave


This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
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coleman
coleman

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Posted:for mr durbs:

a) its complicated - check out my post on the last page and arashi's follow-up to that

b) notcoleman5 is a 5bt weave variation (or a inverted 2bt weave variation depending on which way you're looking at it) and an inverted 5bt weave is what arashi describes in the first post here - i can show you this next time i see yoo smile

c) yes, i think so. but i can't anti-spin a weave so i can't comment.


rev, come to england now please and teach me and durbs - we're lazy, illiterate and non-versed in the realms of antispin but we like to spin and will be very polite, providing tea at most opportunities.


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i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
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spiralx
spiralx

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Posted:Written by: Durbs
a) What is "inverted"? Glass is right - it means upside down. But from the first few pages I thought it was where the un-tangle was on the inside, not on the outside. If so, what does the "inside" part in the title imply?


Inverting a plane means that it's pointing inwards instead of outwards. So a buzzsaw has both planes inverted for instance.

Written by: Durbs
b) What's the difference between a notcoleman5 and an inverted 5bt inside weave? Or are they the same thing?


The notcoleman5 is an uncrossed 5bt inverted weave - uncrossed in the sense you go into the inverted bit with your arms uncrossed. There's also a crossed 5bt inverted weave which is like the thing I describe here

http://www.spherculism.com/poiple/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=383
br>
Written by: Durbs
c) Are inverted weaves in anyway similair to anti-spin weaves?


There are similarities between some types, yes. And to invert butterfly weaves you need to do some antispin smile


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Rev
Rev

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Posted:nix- I said it -could- be done in three beats... which I call a perfect 3bt and perfet 5bt and so forth.... rather than the ones I term proper since they have the proper motion.. just improper poi circles (since thats a better term then beats in this instance.. since as you so perfectly put we're spinnign against the beat count.. and the circles of the poi may differ then the circles of the motion.. if that makes sense at all) like my poi do two circles while my hand coming and and over the other... however,I find that when doing a perfect 3bt my poi dont always line up cleanly (as in the cricle they make) and though it makes a pretty design and suffices to weave.. it doesnt appear like a weave.. if that makes any sense..

coleman- if it were that easy to just up and go... I would ahve a long time ago...theres plenty of cats out that way that I'd LOVE to spin with and learn from.. and not so much as to have to get bogged down in language..

durbs- I hope this doesnt do more to confuse but I feel it might... antispin is unrelated to inverted weaves in the sense that you can antispin an inverted weave ...(in my terms) inverted weaving simply refers to a weave motion that occurs when your wrists are parallel, but your hands are on the wrong side.. (at least the crossed versions) the term inverted being that if you take a perfect sphere and invert it... the planes come in like an hourglass... and thats pretty much what happens... and the not coleman5 (as I understand it and in my words) is when the planes come together but arnt crossed..

antispin for all intents, is doing the right side of a weave on the left side.. so like in a forward 3bt normal spin... the left comes to the right... the right comes under the left(from inner right to farther right [not quite outer]) and back over the left (form farther right to inner right) to the left side.. with antispin you do that on the left.. as in on the left side.. your right poi will come under the left (from outer left to inner left) and back over the left (from inner left to outer left) and the left leads to the right side.. so as you can see we move the right side of a weave over to the left side of the body.. this in turn facilitates the anti movement.. because once moved to the opposite side.. you get a completely different picture and spin.. but in all honesty you are replacing inner right with outer left.. and farther right with inner left... that may be more confusing.. and so I'm incredibly sorry.. but maybe it will help those that do follow it see/understand antispin a bit differently...


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Durbs
Durbs

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Posted:*passes out*

Thanks for trying though wink


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coleman
coleman

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Posted:Written by: spiralx
Written by: Durbs
b) What's the difference between a notcoleman5 and an inverted 5bt inside weave? Or are they the same thing?



The notcoleman5 is an uncrossed 5bt inverted weave - uncrossed in the sense you go into the inverted bit with your arms uncrossed. There's also a crossed 5bt inverted weave which is like the thing I describe here





umm



notcoleman5 has just 1 (crossed) inverted beat and 4 outside beats.

the crossover is made with the poi on the outside (like a normal 5bt weave) which is why it is not labelled as one of the inverted weaves.

the inverted weave family is defined by the inverted crossarm transfer to the other side and is counted by the number of outside beats between these crossovers.



i can't do an inverted 5bt weave.

but nx? can i think...



i can do a 3bt inverted weave (what spiralx describes there on spherculism) and a 3bt weave with the beat that goes across the body inverted.



this 3bt weave variant has the same inverted beat as the notcoleman5 has.



but i don't like talking about this stuff so i'm gonna stop now.


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i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
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spiralx
spiralx

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Posted:The notcoleman5 strikes me as the 5 beat version of the buzzsaw weave (over-inside-under)... could be wrong though.

"Moo," said the happy cow.

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Rev
Rev

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Posted:well I never understood what people meant by the nc5 anyway.. since I've been told that it only has one inside beat.. and I've gotten at that in various ways.. just don't knowwhich is right..



now.. coleman on the 5bt... check this out..



do a reverse weave... you know how the inversion comes in the middle between the sides.. well the 5bt does the forward inversion on either side plane.. which is why buzzsaw at that point become misleading a bit as far as buzzsaw weave goes..



try this.. one the right side of your reverse weave turn your torso to face the right sidenow as the left hand comes overthe right hand.. do the the inversion like you would for a forward 3bt.. the left hand will go over right and up into the buzzsaw.. now instead of turning further right (like you would if you wanted to take it across like a forward 3bt.. bring it across the reverse side.. to the left.. on the left side you should do all 5 of your beats.. and if you are facing the left then that last beat (the right coming over the left) can do the forward inversion and again instead of continuing with the inversion coming out on the forward spin direction..pull it across the reverse..



I hope that helps...



wait.. I ahve a video of the 3 and 5bt rev inversion.. I will edit this in a second an post the link..



link (right click, save as plz)

EDITED_BY: Rev (1098383621)


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arashi
arashi

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Posted:damn i have no time what the heck am i doing here? how about i try to confuse everybody more...



awww coley-poo.

notcoleman5 IS an inverted weave. i don't want you to feel left out. another way of describing notcoleman5 would be an inversion of one wick starting with the second half of an offset. (i think i said offset of a 2/3 before but now i think it's an offset of a 5.) frickin translating sucks. not my forte'.



i started this thread off describing the "leading" variety cause i figured the following were self explanatory. but they are all inversions. the inversion in notcoleman5 is full even though it is past itself and the aother arm is the center of rotation.



when i say "leading" or crossed i am only describing the barrel rolls, as well as concentric or following or longarm are all barrel rolls but all these are not really very good as a means of classification, as you can see the moves all get hazy.

counting the total beats in a move may work and i can't force you guys to agree but you end up with multiple versions of the same beat counts, over here we go by hand patterns, just like poipoipoi and his plural z alpha, or my spider counts, or offset weave counts, the hand positions during crossovers are the focus.



crap i gotta go. these AREN'T very fun to describe, huh?

redface


-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.

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[Nx?]
[Nx?]

Carpal \'Tunnel
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Posted:yo,

arashi, i dont understand barrel rolls, but the rest i get. I can do the 5 beat invert as you describe it, from te 5bt weave position. its a bit like a tracer with the following hand wrapping round the wrist. I prefer the 3 beat and the crossser version, especially if you can hold the crossed/inverted isolation for more than 4 beats or so.

on insperation from rev i twiddled around with 5 bt antispin (i dont normally dally with anything thats got a 5bt label attached to it) and its all there and quite natural, using the right hand positions as rev said.

chicken.... out.

T wave


This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti

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Rev
Rev

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Posted:so I got the 5bt antispin one one right too..
clap bounce ubbloco

I was kinda unsure about that one.. because even with my short strings, I can barely get it through there.. and it botht he antispin ones feel too natural to be going the way they are going.. its as if the antispin inversion is easeir than the twsiting around of the antispin itself...

hopefully I'll get these down a bit better.. or as usual, probably get too bored and move on to my next project.. the bf stuff.. crap.. I'll just start a thread on it.. even though because there's some other things I need to work out first..


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Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both
Member Since: 5th Nov 2001
Total posts: 3749
Posted:I know what a barrel roll is now, thanks to wikipoidia, (tho irs confusing cos a baarrel roll in acro is a nother thing.) and thats what i was taking about. burny on fire arnt they?

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spiralx
spiralx

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Location: London, UK
Member Since: 1st May 2002
Total posts: 1376
Posted:With fire they are risky, yes ubblol

"Moo," said the happy cow.

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Dut
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Location: Nashville, TN
Member Since: 22nd Mar 2002
Total posts: 380
Posted:Written by:
I said it -could- be done in three beats... which I call a perfect 3bt and perfet 5bt and so forth.... rather than the ones I term proper since they have the proper motion.. just improper poi circles





rev, you know you can also inverse without anti-spinning, right? the first vid I saw on this thread of you 'barrel rolling' (What I call a half-inversion) shows you starting crossers, which might be why your descriptions of hand motion are confusing. keep you hands together, man, and your inverse won't have all that extra anti-spin stuff added. you're going to have to use 'extended' arms unless your poi are under a foot long, but that sets up some other nice patterns that you'd never see with your arms crossed that far.



secondly, i think what you're calling anti-spin is an accrurate description, but I think you were anti-spinning in the first place because you couldn't isolate it cleanly. Check out your first 'insides' video (inv bf swing.wmv)...it looks like when you seperate your hands and push them crossers before you 'barrel roll', it's causing you to have to isolate the inside poi (the 'inverse half'). See how your hands are at each elbow and the chains want to 'barrel roll' around their centers, right over your trailing wrist? that's where full isolations would fit in. isolated b-fly still has to thread at the center of rotation, but you're pushing against the center and moving your leading hand in that anti-spin circle around your wrist instead of isolating it, right? it's a crazy variation, but isolation in general is not essential to the inverse part, nor is crossing your hands. can you do inverse 'extended arm' with your hands together, too? I think that was the inverse arashi was originally talking about.



i tell you, isolating that inverse beat is hot, though. i can do it behind my back (reverse) about as cleanly as your doing in that first vid. wink I'm not willing to get into thinking of this in terms of anti-spin though until I can do more stuff with it cleanly in front of me. does this make sense to you, Rev??



-- dut

EDITED_BY: Dut (1100825950)


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Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both
Member Since: 5th Nov 2001
Total posts: 3749
Posted:wow, someone more incomprehnsible than rev.... I think... nana

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Dut
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Location: Nashville, TN
Member Since: 22nd Mar 2002
Total posts: 380
Posted:<-- pope dut says 'no hotdog buns on friday'. wink describing poi moves is the closest thing to pure madness I've found. i'm sure you remember the 'deconstructionism' thread... THAT's incomprehensible.



seriously, though. check out 'inv bf swing.wmv'.. His poi 'thread' at the center of the chains, so the inner part must be isolated, right? since there's only 180 degrees of isolation, it's half-isolated. nothin' simpler. when the inversion happens, his hands started near the opposite elbows, but when it's just the regular b-fly part, his hands are on top of one another, so it's half-crossers. half-inversion is just what I call the whole 'barrel roll move' b/c it only makes half a circle inside (it starts and ends outside).. and since that's the only half he's isolating, it's a half-isolated, half-crosser, half-inversion. all of the half stuff takes place on the inverse swing, on the 'outsides' its just a regular b-fly. how could that be hard to understand? ::rofl-skates::



edit -- here, from arashi three pages back - Written by:




you would have to isolate the anti spin if you want an inverted bfly weave, but i still don't think the barrel roll would happen, the wick would just float under your arms. but that doesn't seem like anti spin, that's just floating inversions around. man that makes no sense.





arashi comes to the same conclusion. when Rev's saying 'anti-spin', it's just to get around the trailing arm because he started out crosser, and has the same effect as an isolation (if you cross at or below half the length of the poi string). looks sorted.



well, at least there's a whole other thread about isolated anti-spin that doesn't involve inversions, so I'm guessing it's sorted enough. I'd still like to see Rev be able to JUST inverse a b-fly without moving his hands. it looks dope if you can alternate sides every time. wink From the dates on the posts, he might have gotten it a few months ago, but wanted to keep talking about anti-spin. maybe it's a half-anti-isolated, half-crosser, half-inversion, then??



i'm going to stop now. i think i hurt myself. so long as we're clear that inverse crossers are a pain to work out cleanly, that's all I need.



-- dut

EDITED_BY: Dut (1100825817)


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spiralx
spiralx

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Location: London, UK
Member Since: 1st May 2002
Total posts: 1376
Posted:I do a crossarm isolated inverted butterfly weave thingy (lol, what a mouthful) - it's much like the same direction version except to keep the poi from wrapping around your arms you need to isolate first one way and then stop and isolate back the other way again. So at some points during the move the isolation is going "against" the direction of the poi which is I guess what you could call anti-spin.

"Moo," said the happy cow.

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Dut
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Location: Nashville, TN
Member Since: 22nd Mar 2002
Total posts: 380
Posted:umm. so inverse/inside btb? are there any glow-stringers in the house?

-- dut


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Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both
Member Since: 5th Nov 2001
Total posts: 3749
Posted:*looks for weasal, thinks it unlikly*

some mad maori was talking about 5bt btb inversions a while ago.... wink

[censored] that tho.

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