Forums > Advanced Poi Moves > inversions, insides, atomics, oh my!
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Location: austin,tx
edit; okay glass just smacked me in the head with the obvious notion that inverted means upside down as well as the definition i went by, in which inverted means; reversed, in a contrary direction. so i am considering changing my terminology, but i have edited this to make sense with the stuff in the trinity thread. i'm just warning you that i may change this post when i get the time to give a flying fart. anyway this will make sense for a little while til i can change things to confuse you again
first, the crossed arm inverted weaves, which add two beats to a odd number weave...
the counting on this is pretty tricky, since it comes out of a weave that already has beats. in general for beat counts i go by the # of beats on each side of the crossover, since that way you don't have to be symmetrical to have it make sense. but the crossover happens at the entrance into the inversion so i label the inverted weave by which weave position you came into it from. there's so many variations that this may make sense later.
first, try the 3 beat inverted weave, which is
3 beat weave, but the crossover goes between your arms instead of to the other side. your arms, you will notice, are crossed, so you have to do an split time isolation with both hands so the chains don't wrap your arms.
next try it out of the five beat, which makes a 5 beat inverted weave.
insides are like buzzsaws but are not between your arms, they are between your arms and your body. take a buzzsaw in front, and drop your hands to your sides. now the wicks come under your armpits, and the chains are inside your arms. you can take a bfly or a spider and inside them, so if you do a bfly in front, you bend forward and do it inbetween your arms and your tummy. do them in the side plane, too.
now if you take a buzzsaw, do it inside at your side, and the take it around your back, keeping the same buzzsaw plane direction the whole time, you have a BTB inside. now try that, with an inverted weave instead of a buzzsaw. ouch. wear a cup. or "box" if your british
I have edited this title and post and cut out all the "buzzsaw" terms. Hope this makes more sense now!
EDITED_BY: arashi (1107654577)
-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.
1,376 posts
Location: London, UK
Ok so that's a hell of a lot of new stuff arashi, many thanks for taking the time to write it all down!
I'm going to have to spend a fair bit of time when I'm not sat at my desk here at work going through it! I've done some stuff with inverted atoms, but just getting the basic inversion to stay there is harder than doing a bloody inverted weave.One quick clarification - in your first diagram is your body directly below the X? So the two planes at at 45 degrees to your normal wall/wheel planes?
Once again - thanks!
"Moo," said the happy cow.
2,364 posts
Location: austin,tx
no with the body like this
Code:
X
/ /<--pretend this is a backslash, so it
*body* looks like a real arm and not some cheap
imitation flailing arm
oh even though i b*!ch a lot about circuitous argumentative word misunderstandings you don't have to be so nice...
not that i'm complaining 
but when you're this nice it makes me feel...like ROYALTY
wait we take it back, you may now grovel to us...
[holds out his ring]
-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.
1,376 posts
Location: London, UK
I'm not kissing your ring you know :P
But you seem to be agreeing and disagreeing with me... here, I've drawn a crappy diagram, is this what you mean?
https://www.homeofpoi.com/gallery/display.php?image=/500/1989atom.GIF
The red lines are the planes of the two poi. And yes, I know the end of the arms should be closer to where the planes cross
EDITED_BY: spiralx (1107806783)
"Moo," said the happy cow.
2,364 posts
Location: austin,tx
as the french would say, weewee.
can i put that up there somewhere?
-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.
1,376 posts
Location: London, UK
Go for it
"Moo," said the happy cow.
1,376 posts
Location: London, UK
Ok, initial thoughts
Written by: arashi
let's start with a _forward_ inversion/buzzsaw. from here there are 2 inverted atoms. and there's 2 from the reverse buzzsaw too.
1. open the buzzsaw into an atom by taking the right plane and moving the far side of the circle 45 degrees to the left, and the far side of the left circle 45 degrees to the right. keep both hands inverted. we'll work with this one cause this typewriter only has backslashes and so this atom will always be an X from above.
Code:
L---> X <---R
2. open the buzzsaw into an atom by taking the right plane and moving the near side of the circle to the left 45 degrees, and the left plane will move the near side of the left circle to the right 45 degrees.
So from #1 the poi are in a plane parallel to the arm holding them, in #2 they're in a plane perpendicular to the arm holding them? Hadn't thought about that difference before, I've done everything in #2 which seems a hell of a lot easier...
Written by:
so now let's try moving it around. first the easy one, move the atom away from you to a full outside.
outside #1
Code:
X
^^
!!
LR
now back to #1
Ok, some clarification needed, doh. In the very first diagram are your forearms pointed towards each other with the centre of the cross in between your hands? And to get the outside you move your arms so they instead point away from your body.... the poi are still spinning in the same place but you've gone from inverted to outside?
Even if that's not what you mean that's something for me to think about already lol
"Moo," said the happy cow.
2,364 posts
Location: austin,tx
oh crap! just wait til you try the cranes... i'm eager to see how many can do that first one...
"one bite on this to(ngue) and the baron will be no more"
.
.
"remember the to-(ngue)"
seriously, once you practice #1 atom that outside's an easy transition.
or you could try tackling them all in your natural (2nd) atom. if you did you'd probably figure all this out for yourself, for now i'm just taking an atom and moving my hands around... your first outside would be the 3bt atom, corresponding to the #1 atom's 3bt inside atom which i stopped short of... hey if you do that, would you code it up for us? otherwise start with the ones i posted.
-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.
2,364 posts
Location: austin,tx
if anyone is trying this and has questions now is the best time cause i won't have lots of time (again) really soon...
-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.
1,376 posts
Location: London, UK
Just to check are we talking same- or split-time for all of this?
"Moo," said the happy cow.
2,364 posts
Location: austin,tx
same. well both really, but the basic crane transitions, split time, in an atom... without threading you'd have to thru wrap, right? i don't have my poi with me...
-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.
1,376 posts
Location: London, UK
Ok that's what I thought
"Moo," said the happy cow.
2,364 posts
Location: austin,tx
so, is this indecipherable or what? i see lots of people reading this thread but no responses for almost 2 weeks!! is it too hard or too easy? or did arguing with rev scare everybody off
-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.
275 posts
Location: ati: on: She: ffi: eld: UK:
broken fingers are stopping me try any of this stuff at the moment...
--ben
2,364 posts
Location: austin,tx
OMG that is my worst nightmare.
worse even than this F#*KING MUSCLE i keep pulling in my hip... (limps back to the kitchen)
so sorry!
-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.
Pooh-Bah
1,872 posts
Location: Canada
I've been trying to understand this thread for longer than I care to admit, in retrospect, what I should have done is jumped in my car and driven down to Texas. With me it's the learning from reading text, I'll cast my vote with too hard
2,364 posts
Location: austin,tx
you know it's okay to ask questions
did the vid of the three beat inversion not help?
-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.
Bastard Newbie Messiah
1,269 posts
Location: Apparently lost in my ego, USA
I'm still trying to find out if I understand.. so I can't ask anyquestions.. because I understand something, pretty sure its this.. who knows.. but I've been to busy with school, and my new poi project that I kinda slacked off..
More useless information courtesy of Rev...
Confusing the masses, one post at a time...
"Obviously, you're not a golfer.."- The Dude
"Buy the ticket... Take the ride..." -Raoul Duke
"FEMA has never done catastrophe planning..."-Michael Brown
1,376 posts
Location: London, UK
Written by: tenticle
broken fingers are stopping me try any of this stuff at the moment...
--ben
Moo, that's rubbish... hope they get better soon.
As for me I've been kind of busy recently and not having enough time to sit there in front of the computer and go through the various ideas here. Plus my same-time inverted atoms are still pretty poo
I did get the "5bt" style inverted atom thing you mention though, although it's even rougher at the moment. But it did remind me of how unable I am to do offset buzzsaws, hmph.
And what video is this arashi?
"Moo," said the happy cow.
2,364 posts
Location: austin,tx
i could've sworn YOU posted a vid of one somewhere!*grumbles incoherently about short term memory loss*
-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.
1,376 posts
Location: London, UK
Oh yes, that one. I guess it was an inverted atomic weave lol.
Doh!
"Moo," said the happy cow.
1,376 posts
Location: London, UK
Oh and I did a couple of better diagrams here for your type 1 and 2 atoms - blue is left hand poi, red is right hand poi. Although yes, the poi are still too long lol
Type #1
https://www.homeofpoi.com/gallery/display.php?image=/500/1989atom1.gif
Type #2
https://www.homeofpoi.com/gallery/display.php?image=/500/1989atom2.gif
"Moo," said the happy cow.
Pooh-Bah
1,872 posts
Location: Canada
Arashi. you mean the video on page 6? it kinda helped although I felt like i was watching a hyperloop tutorial, no laughing please, I'm hoping to link up with PoiBox II in the next few weeks. hopefully he can shed some light on this subject.
I can't seem to get past the buzzsaw weave, which to me feels like more like a short chain three beat weave with a couple of ( to swipe a term from spherculsim ) fakeys in it. The timing just feels strange
Bastard Newbie Messiah
1,269 posts
Location: Apparently lost in my ego, USA
Ok.. I must just be missing something.. all my atoms work like butterflies.. and I get all the transitions your talking about without a problem.. and I'm afraid I still don't get the point.. I mean.. yeah I get that its an atom, but I'm trying to figure out how this is anydifferent from a butterfly stuff.. so either A) I'm child prodigy, or b) I'm hopeless.. I'm going with the latter..
More useless information courtesy of Rev...
Confusing the masses, one post at a time...
"Obviously, you're not a golfer.."- The Dude
"Buy the ticket... Take the ride..." -Raoul Duke
"FEMA has never done catastrophe planning..."-Michael Brown
1,376 posts
Location: London, UK
That might be because these are all opposite direction atoms... If you start with a same direction normal move it turns into an atom with a "butterfly" characteristic and vice versa it seems to me.
"Moo," said the happy cow.
Bastard Newbie Messiah
1,269 posts
Location: Apparently lost in my ego, USA
every way I turn my atom ends up coming out butterfly like.. even when I turn straight from same direction -> atom -> butterfly -> other atom -> back.. it all comes through butterfly.. *shrug*
More useless information courtesy of Rev...
Confusing the masses, one post at a time...
"Obviously, you're not a golfer.."- The Dude
"Buy the ticket... Take the ride..." -Raoul Duke
"FEMA has never done catastrophe planning..."-Michael Brown
1,376 posts
Location: London, UK
Left poi front wall plane CW, right poi right wheel plane CW. That's not very butterfly-like
"Moo," said the happy cow.
2,364 posts
Location: austin,tx
you know i wish i could watch that video on page 6 sometime. i spaced and thought it was an inverted 3bt, is it just an inverted atom being threaded? or are you transitioning from one kind to another? and isn't there a inverted 3bt video somewhere?
and rev, these ARE like butterflies. but in that context, what isn't? did i say somewhere that there was a point?
but there's definitely more here than this. i'm under a crunch again though... people do do, things to see...i'll go with b) too
-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.
1,376 posts
Location: London, UK
arashi start with a basic inverted weave (buzzsaw weave ie. trailing poi entering the inversion) and then bring the near side of the right poi 45 degrees to the right and the near side of the left poi 45 degrees to the left while doing the same move. It's that
"Moo," said the happy cow.
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,749 posts
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both
Woa,
hey folks, long time no see.
Thanks for the diagrams arashi, I think I understand them, a few questions tho.
1: are you moving your body around as your changing the right hand through the diffrent sectors of the atom?
2: what the bluddy hell is a crane? I thought at first it ment same time (like spider is weave so crane is same time) but then there was a bit spiral said about split-time and same time and that was diffrent.
so what is crane? I was talking to dragon a while about it the other day, but you know dragon, he knew what you ment, but couldent tell me!
other than that, I got stage 1 2 and 3 ok, workin on the 5bt (when I say got it i stood there and did it with a little thought, its going to be another season untill I actually know it in my bones.
nice thread, once you skip huge chunks, anything with the word anti-spin in it bassically.
T
This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,749 posts
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both
oh btw,
thanks for that waistwrap butterfly trinity tangle thing arashi, got it btb the other day, first new move i learnt in aaaages.
T
This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti
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