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Taniwha
member
Location: Aotearoa
Member Since: 8th Apr 2003
Total posts: 138
Posted:At risk of sounding like a total fool AGAIN, or some kind of arrogant prick, i would like to
Genuinely discuss BTH (behind the head) and BTB (behind the back) BTL (between the legs) and UTA (under the arm btb) HYPERLOOPS a.k.a AIR WRAPS.

How can i say this nicly : hmmm I can do both bth and btb hyperloops. Although im no MASTER.

What variations can you do? Id like to hear mainly the different variations and angles, from wraps, from weaves from b-flys etc. And what move you like to do that btb hyperloop into.

I like the reverse weave btb inside hyp, its 1 of my fav'z. But i have another variation when u do btb rev weave and pull 1 hand bth while the other stays btb and then hyperloop. Do you have a name for that 1? What do u do after that? I like to try and pull a inside hyp straight after.

So yea, please feel free to speak your mind on this topic and maybee we can combine all our efforts to reach a common goal of finding more moves and proper common names for them all.

Even if all u say is "your bull$h!@, that move is impossible!"

[ 13. April 2003, 16:48: Message edited by: Raging Dragon ]


Its all just smoke and mirrors

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Rev
Rev

Bastard Newbie Messiah
Location: Apparently lost in my ego
Member Since: 14th Mar 2003
Total posts: 1269
Posted:yes you can do what I call jumping the tangle.. its easier with the arms at 12 and 6 when hyperlooping then with them at 3 and 9... basically when the first poi spins out of the buzzsaw part of a hyperlooping buzzsaw.. I use to call it a wirst flick but I better understand it now.. say I'm moveing right to left.. as the first poi exits to the left of my left hand I move my left hand to the left and the nextpoi does another buzzsaw beat, but most of the time it jumps the tangle up the string a little bit, making it look like a new tanlge starting.. and the poi start going back the other direction... basically it allows one to do a hyperlooped fountain.. without ever untangling.. basically hyperloop to the back, have it one peat outside and come back forward as you bring it back over your shoulder, isolate the front windmill part, to kepe the tangle easily, go back over the right shoulder make the poi do the jump again to come back the other way.. or it can be done in 2 tangles easier.. or 4 tangles and a flower at each of the seperation points.. I'm particualr found of that one.. or you could hyperloop parts and airwrap the seperations where the flowers would be.. or airwrap in the flowers.. or hyperloop them and tangled spiral the ends..

tons-o-more options.. depending on how you feel at the time, I suppose..


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Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both
Member Since: 5th Nov 2001
Total posts: 3749
Posted:Rev:

slow down, paragraph, and explain in a clear and recognisable fashion exactly what you mean by the basic movement. we can hit the combinations ourselves. is it what monkey was talking about in multi beat airwraps, or diffrent?

I think you said...

no, say it again, the re-tangling bit, slower. then ill come back.

Thanks, T wave


This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti

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Rev
Rev

Bastard Newbie Messiah
Location: Apparently lost in my ego
Member Since: 14th Mar 2003
Total posts: 1269
Posted:okthe tanlge never actually ends... but it does move.. and if you've seen the way a tanlge looks in the buzzsaw you'll understand what I mean when I say it appears to jump.. I dunno.. that's just a look.. an illusion given off by the tangle and the strings spiraling..



basically when you are doing hyperloop and it passes through the buzzsaw.. it doesn't untangle until both poi spin out the other side of the tangle.. so if I go right to left it won't untanlge until both poi get to the left of the left hand.. so.. what you do is let the first poi exit the left side, then move your left hand to the left so that the other poi passes to the right of the left hand.. this puts it in a bussaw plane and pulls (along with the moving of the hand) the outside poi back into the buzzsaw spin.. )



here let me diagram a basic version



Code: L r

\ /

/ \

body R l

l

L_ \

*

| \

body R r

r

|

L----*----R

|

l

body



l

\

L*---R

|

r

body



r

|

L*---R

/

/

l body

l

\

L--*---R

|

r

body

r

|

L--*---R

|

l

body





The last three show in order: the left poi making its one rotation outside, the left hand moving outward so the right one makes a nother buzzsaw pass, and finally the left poi following the right poi back through the buzzsaw the other direction..

had the right poi actually come to the left of the left hand it would have undone the tangle but since only one does it doesn't fully undo, but rather jumps back.. as the tangle shifts to accomodate the change..





edit: sorrry my coding is sloppy..

EDITED_BY: Rev (1080186551)


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coleman
coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay
Member Since: 29th Aug 2002
Total posts: 7330
Posted:Quote:
is it what monkey was talking about in multi beat airwraps, or diffrent?



it's that.

rev that diagram is fukkin brilliant hug

in fact, i think you should copy it and post it again in the multibeat airwrap thread too - the airwrap fountain spun like that is not something i've heard discussed before and sounds exactly like the type of move simian was fishing for with that thread.

nice one smile


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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bluecat
bluecat

geek, level 1
Location: everywhere
Member Since: 15th Dec 2002
Total posts: 5300
Posted:i'll disagree with you cole that its not been talked about; and also i think that its not quite what simian was talking about. but then i am not the monkey and do not iunderstand his monkemind always.

but not about the greatness of that diagram. just needs a quick explanation that capital letters is hands, small letters is poi heads. i think?


nice one rev.

and cole: felinnotation made a great leap yesterday. got the first 20 sketched out in stick figures. some of the smaller detailed ones are going to be damn tricky, but hey, i'm getting there rolleyes*phew*

smiles
R


Holistic Spinner (I hope)

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simian
simian

110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
Location: London
Member Since: 11th Oct 2002
Total posts: 3149
Posted:damn straight that's what the monkey was talking about biggrin

only Rev's description puts mine to shame redface

that "tangle jumping" is exactly what i wrongly assumed the multi beat airwrap stuff in this thread was about.

"jumping the tangle" eh? i like that, that's just how it feels.

Rev: would that be a 'knotted tangle' perhaps? wink


"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."

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coleman
coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay
Member Since: 29th Aug 2002
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Posted:monkey: thought so smile



cat: i had exactly that notion last night for yoo - stick figures on squared paper (to make it easier to draw) and in 5 colours (to identify which lines are in front of others).

and if at any point they are getting small and fiddly, just draw them bigger! wink

if you can find a reference to airwrap fountains spun like rev described, i'll give you the biggest bowl of double cream you've ever seen kiss


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both
Member Since: 5th Nov 2001
Total posts: 3749
Posted:great, thanks rev. Im off to work....

now, what are we gonna call it? *ducks out of range* tongue

T wave


This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti

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coleman
coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay
Member Since: 29th Aug 2002
Total posts: 7330
Posted:Im off to work...



you wanna watch that sh!t - it seriously messes with your practice time...

[ubbcrying i didn't juggle at all yesterday ubbcrying]


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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Rev
Rev

Bastard Newbie Messiah
Location: Apparently lost in my ego
Member Since: 14th Mar 2003
Total posts: 1269
Posted:word.. glad you people liked it.. but just to clarify a few things..

1) big letter hand, little letter poi

2) this might be what monkey was fishing for but I don't know.. that's not what I think when I think multi-beat airwrap.. I think the old airwrap definition (the one that's like a wall plane hyperloop) can have extra revolutions on the twisting side and the untwisting side.. I thought that was arashi was talking about at least with multibeat airwraps..

3)yes simian that would be a tangled knot.. starts a knot then the tangle then return before unknotting.. see if you did just a straight tangle you wouldn't be able to get that one outside beat without losing the tanlge.. that's what I mean when I say a tangle exits as its entered.. as in you enter a tanlge with a knot it will exit still a knot, but if you enter unlinked it will exit unlinked.. (I'm sure everyone is confused on the whole knot tanlge thing.. check out spherculism.. basically a tangle is what I defined as airwrap ie. the perptual tangle.. it is always tanlged unless brought out of the tanlge .. and knot is my old definition of the hyperloop.. think hangmans noose.. it ties up a number of rotations and unties a number of rotations.. it is always either tying or untying and finishes as soon as the untying balances with the tyiong rotations..) anyway.. nothing to get worked over.. I'm not pushing for people to use new nomenclature.. its just a system we ahve on the other site.. more of educational mechanic then anything else..





4) I have some other stuff that you might want to check out if love that.. that's a precursor to a larger move set.. see I know I can go back and forther with that acrosse the middle... now what I want is to add extra beats to the sides... make it like tangled weaving.. before you add connotations to that here me out.. basically you can create a situation where the poi do like this:

Code:

1 R L 2

\ o o /

|| ||

o\ / o

L Body R

left side right side



3 L R 4

\ o o /

|| ||

o\ / o

R Body L

left side right side



alright... these are basically the 4positions... now these do not show tanlges because the premise stems from the untangled buzzsaw.. but airwraps work the same way.. If you know how to do that corkscrew buzzsaw (where it goes up in the buzzsaw and comes down in the buzzsaw) Pk does it in morning coffee.. it does 1 beat outside the buzzsaw and which starts a buzzsaw back down.. well if you look at the diagram in my other post.. all that is, is a vertical tangled version of that concept... 1 beat outside starts the buzzsaw back the other way..

now what we are going to do is confine for now just to the side plane.. basically, you can go from 1-3-1 or 3-1-3 or 2-4-2 or 4-2-4 without ever losing the buzzsaw.. try and imagine just the 1 and 3 for now.. and imagine turning it to the wallplane in front of you.. well if you do a wallplane weave, it ends up like a corkscrew (hand motion wise) that should help you visualize the movements of the hands.. for instance, with one the right hand is spinning a cricle on the outside while the left hand does a circle inside (the poi are spinning beteen them the whole time.. ) then they rotate, just like the hands were doing the poi part of a weave orbit.. and you end up in the diagram 3 where the left hand is spinning an outter circle and the right hand is psinning an inner one.. still spinning the poi in the buzzsaw.. this is a way of manipulating the thin buzzsaw plane that is between the outer and inner wallplane (technically it is feasible to do outer and inverted.but let's not even go there) so to recap what wehave is a buzzsaw that never really exits the buzzsaw, but the hands move around it.. now the path the hands follow are small until you isolate them.. then you get large paths, like a poi orbit in a weave.. why am I telling you all of this? because if you airwrap, you can isoalte those motions and the result of mooving from 1-3-1 is an spinning circle in the center while your hands weave around it.. now if turn back to a side plane version.. we can go from 1-3-1 and instread of going back to 3 let it go into the normal buzzsaw plane in front.. and when it comes out the right side do 2-4-2... since allof this is large isolated movements, the result is a hands- weave pattern something like a buzzsaw weave, weave pattern.. while the poi are spinning the same small orbital.. thus your hands weave but the poi stay tangled.. hence the thread title it came from "tangled weving.. or something like it.. "



this is HARD... I can do the stuff in my diagram a few posts up no problem, and I'm good about getting the side thing to work.. but I am not very reliable at getting the whole thing to work.. see you have to enter it with a hyperloop, not an airwrap.. because if you enter as an airwrap, you can't get any outside beats, and there are times (not in the diagram) when you need to get just one poi outside (like in the diagram a few posts up) to keep things going.. the minute you do that with an airwrap, the whole shabang untangles.. also.. if you do the straight rotation of the 1-3-1, most of the time when I airwrap and do it, I end up losing the tangle after that..



there's something about the timing .. if you want something that will help you learn this.. you know how with an isoalted buzzsaw fountain you can do it in one wall plane.. there is a cross at the 12:00 and 6:00 where it disjuncts to swtich sides.. well when you do a fountain like that with a tanlged buzzsaw.. the tangle will disappear wehn you cross the 12:00 and 6:00 most times.. but it is possible to pass those points still tangled.. I think that's in the timing and the isolation.. but those movements.. the passing at the 12:00 and 6:00 are critical to understanding what's going on in that 1-3-1 business.. I recommend entering your tanlged buzzsaw from a hyperloop so that you have some extra tangle leeway, should one poi bounce out for a rotation.. it will help alot a promise.. I want to get the glowkids on this mess.. the can hold airwraps for stupidly long times... I just dont' have the control for it yet.. but Iknow if I could hold some of the 10+ second airwraps, then this move would be infinitely easier..





ok I decided to add at the end a brief snippet to avoid any confusion..

Knot this is what I mean by hyperloop

a state where the link is crossed like this:Code:o o

\/

/\

x x



Tangle is what I mean by airwrap (not old airwrap)

a state where the link is crossed like this:Code:x o

\/

/\

o x



x's are handles and o's are poi.. thank you simian.. i've been posting your diagrams all over to save retyping them hehehe...



again I'm not putting these to argue.. just make sure that I'm understood when people are reading this post..





edit:

5) yes this was discussed before.. but its always been (to my knowledge ) called jumping the tangle.. and the people i discussed it with on forum and in HoP chat bboth talked about 'flicking the wrist' and it makes the tangle jump and go back the other way.. I came across it when I was first trying to learn hyperloops.. then it disappeared.. then it came back.. and I studied it.. and voila.. I really want to get this out there to the tanlged spinners because the potential in this stuff is crazy.. I'm more pushing the conceptual end then practice, because I'm trying to keep my ability up with what my mind says can be done.. but there are lots of mroe talented spinners out there.. so if they can hammer this out then who knows what's next you know.. I get so ticked because I spend at least an hour or two a day working on this stuff.. and it knocks away my practice form the gazillion other things I still need to learn..



edit x2: I just thought of something.. the motions my hands make and the poi make the pi orbiting each other and the arms orbitting the poi in more of an electron typ fashion or something.. I dunno.. its weirdness.. I want to put uv reflective pain on my hand sjust to see what kind of patterns the hand tracers and poi tracers make.. (tracers as in the eafter effects, not the move)

EDITED_BY: Rev (1080238214)


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[Nx?]
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Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both
Member Since: 5th Nov 2001
Total posts: 3749
Posted:Quote:
but just to clarify a few things..

ubblol

ok.

basically what your talking about in this one (ill get back to the one further up) is an orbital carry.

once your in orbital (tangle/airwrap/buzzsawtangle) as you say the timing has to be right in order for the orbital to be taken to the other side (and winding the hands over the orbital is the same thing. If peaple want videos of this effect i recoment they check out gyral auroras (which is down at the moment) where there is a video if someone doing just what rev describes.)

another way to think about it is doing an orbital (airwrap/tangle/buzzsaw tangle) on the horisontal (corckscrew) plane. twist them up at the bottom then take the left hand high for the orbital, then swich so that the right hand is high for the orbital without untangling, simply swich slower to untangle.

this swiching of the high hand is the same thing as weaving your hands over which is the same thing as bringing the orbital (airwrap/tangle/buzzsaw tangle) to the backwards direction from forwards. its the same problem as keeping the isolated buzsaw fountain isolated on the transitions, but with a diffrent solution, so forget that ubbloco

its a carry. i.e the orbital (airwrap/tangle/buzzsaw tangle) goies from inside forwards, through the outside in less than 1 beat and arrives inside backwards.

no worries. sorry for repeating what you said rev, but i hadda clear this in my mind too.

T wave


This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti

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Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both
Member Since: 5th Nov 2001
Total posts: 3749
Posted:right, and for the jumping back thingy....

this is where ive been getting confused. normally when I (and peaple i learnt off) go into orbital (tangle/hyperloop/airwrap/tangle buzzsaw) then its poi from the respective side that starts the twist that enters the orbital (tangle/hyperloop/airwrap/tangle buzzsaw) first. I.e. if your twisting on your right hand side then its the right poi head that enters the orbital first, and the right poi head to exit first to untangle, other wise you get what i would call a knot.

but in revs version the twist happens on the right but its the left poi head that enters the orbital (tangle/hyperloop/airwrap/tangle buzzsaw) first, and the left head that exits for 1 beat before being pulled back in. its an odd-beat entry. freaky ubbloco

Im sorry dragon, you were trying to tell me about this for ages, but i didnt get it.

presumably this means the (*) in your diagram (rev) is a sort of knot, similar to the one I was talking baout above, but in buzzsaw, which is what simian ment by knotted buzzsaw i guess *smacks forehead*

*Nx goes back to work...*

T wave

p.s. the reason i keep calling it orbital is because its the only word that hasnt been used by someone else to describe something diffrent, not a bad point eh?


This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti

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arashi
arashi

Pooh-Bah
Location: austin,tx
Member Since: 21st Mar 2002
Total posts: 2363
Posted:wow rev i'm sure those posts took forever to do so thanks for your effort and time.

and gee for once i can actually understand what people are talking about. eek
i notice everybody is trying really hard to have language clarity, hopefully without resentment to me for my french maid act. cheers all

beerchug


-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.

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Rev
Rev

Bastard Newbie Messiah
Location: Apparently lost in my ego
Member Since: 14th Mar 2003
Total posts: 1269
Posted:ok here's the deal.. orbitals are a bad term to use.. because thats not whatI'm doing.. this is why... the focus of what I'm doing isn't on the poi orbiting..a nd everyone keeps using toxics stuff.. toxic albeit knowledgeable doesn't respect his history.. something that I admit.. I hadn't either.. but orbiting.. has adifferent contextand I won't use it because Idon't want to offend others (outside of this forum, that read this forum) that know what orbiting really is.. I don't want another airwrap/hyperloop/yo momma crap.. so I'm avoiding any terms that have even been vaguely used by anyone for any reason...



and for the record.. in the diagrams work on two levels.. they were designed to be top being further out and bottom being closer to you..althoght top and bttom work equally well.. I jsut wanted to not ehtat there are differences in whether you hands are top and btoom or left and right in terms.. only minor differences but differences none the less..





the * indicates a tangle (in the gerneal sense) as in this is the point where the strings are wrapped around each other in some form or fashion.. now I used the above example because that for me is the most basic knotted tangle.. as in its the most basic hyperloop that passes through the buzzsaw position.. sure you can enter with the right but you have to keepmaking extra rotations I.e tieing the knot up more before you move it.. and I wanted to keep the diagrams as basic as possible.. as was stated.. you guys can figure out the variations.. just work with the premise...



now I have a id on toxic's site so i'll go check things out.. but which part are people doing.. because the long part in the tanlged weaving I've never seen done.. I'm not saying I'm the first to do it.. I'm just saying the bits and pieces are there, but haven't been put together I suppose.. because the first post with diagrams was meant to show you how to move the tanlge without isolating.. the second post is how to expand that.. see when dealing with a tangle (airwrap) it will spin indefinately (momentum pending..) so there are no beats.. it fails to matter.. (I think this touches on the root of what the glowkids mean with orbiting, but again.. i won't use that because I'm not going to even have the smallest fraction of vagueness) what then becomes important are hand movements.. I can do everything I described up there and without isolating.. not a bigdeal.. it looks cool, I mean I move the ball of light around.. woo.. (sarcasm) but what I'm after is more then that.. I want to be involved in what I'm doing.. not standing by letting it do everything for me.. and to boot I know that if I isolate I can extend the life of a tangle (in the general sense).. I can spin a tangle (airwrap) in the wall plane and alternate which hands are further out.. that is kinda cool, but when I start throwing an isolation in there, there becomes a different timing to the poi orbits and the different patterned orbits made by my hands.. this is where things get difficult.. now what I wanted was a way to get a weave like pattern out of this.. (with my hands) and I already knew how to do the one in wall plane.. now all I had to do was turn it.. so that it was a side plane and do it one both sides.. simple enough right.. well.. its a little harder then that.. maybe that's just me.. I realized that the enitre time I was never really leaving the buzzsaw.. just manipulating the buzzsaw planes.. so I figured, it was time to at some more alternating so that it made a clean pattern on one side.. buzzsaw then a clean pattern on the other.. instead of just willy nilly.. which ultimately resulted in a apttern wehre I make large weave motions, isoalted buzzsaw large weave motiosn (granted yes the weave motions are isolated but for arguments sake)this combines a lot fo techniques and just by working on this one pattern I've gotten so much better with a LOT of my stuff.



all of this is just meant to illustrate concepts more then moves.. you hammer this in thorugh practice and variations, and then when you spin it comes out in new ways.. this applies any time to the tanlge.. it works.. horizontally, btb, whereever, and its a little bit cooler (I think) or at the very least offers a change from just twisting and untwisting...



I was under the impression that give or take some freak accidents, my tangles (general)had certain patterns to follow..now I'm more interested in what I can do while they spin their patterns.. a tangle (genereal) will spin its course for the most aprt without the need for help.. this is why awall plane know (hyperloop) looks so much like a tanlge (airwrap)..



I'm sorry if my terms confuse people.. I hope the diagrams help.. and I hope that those vids on toxis site are liek this because that would be soo freaking cool to post up and say watch this. but at the same time.. I want people to remember that I brought this up because I want to get people thinking more about what can be done with the tangles.. how we can manipulate the tangles beyond what's given.. I figure if I pass this kind of understanding on then people can derive even more things from this.. I mean this isnt just for an airwrap fountain.. I mean, I'm basically if I wanted to doing an airwrap fountain on my right pasing it through the buzzsaw and doing and airwrap fountain on my left.. only instead of making a bigs hoopla over the airwrap fountain.. i'm focusing more on my hands then the airwrap..



another reason I brough tthis upis because I've been doing all sorts of link wraps.. and no I don't mean go into a hyperloop let it hit your biceps and spin the other way.. I'm talking letting them twist up (in the case of a knot) or pull the slack out or a a tangle (airwrap) in such a way that they lose wrap up and then recoil out.. I love airwraps that change direction after they spiral out.. and basically this stuff is all meant to proovide a base skill and understanding of tangles that will let me spin my tanlges (general) and have them sprial down and spiral back out.. make it so one tanlge (genreal) begins as soon as another ends so quick that it looks like it moves.. (which btw is not what's happening in my above posts. ) basicalyl ways that I can spin the tangles.. I don't know how to describe that.. its not just playing with orbitals.. and its not just using tangles.. I'm trying to surpass that, transcend it if you will.. i think there's lots of potential in all this stuff..



I'm not ranting.. I'm not angry.. I might be rambling.. lol.. and I don't even know why I posted all of this.. but I really felt like it needed to be said.. perhaps its because people are finally understanding me (i think) and I want to make sure things are clear..


More useless information courtesy of Rev...
Confusing the masses, one post at a time...
"Obviously, you're not a golfer.."- The Dude
"Buy the ticket... Take the ride..." -Raoul Duke
"FEMA has never done catastrophe planning..."-Michael Brown

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Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both
Member Since: 5th Nov 2001
Total posts: 3749
Posted:as mud mate. ubblol



all i want to know is if what im saying i think your saying is right. ubbloco



the odd beat i think is essential, beacuse having played all day with even beats and it not working atall, this makes much more sence. but i aint got it anywhere near right yet to test it.



as for comming out backwards, i know exactly what you mean, but i normally see this as an 'escape' i.e. a nifty way out when and airwrap goes wrong.



im not bothered about combinations and stuff, thats future, im talking techniquie, there are only four well defined effects of tangles, and just for fun im gonna list them.



effect1:



the outside to outside effect. twist up on one plane, transfer to any other plane (exept inverse/between the arms) to untwist. easily done with 2 beats, harder with more (the tech to get more is pretty hazy too)



effect2:



the parcel knot. orbitals and tangle buzzsaws and stuff. the poi orbit the tangle, never twisting, never untwisting, caught on each other between the arms.



effect3:



the buzzsaw carry. transfering an effect2 across outside planes and into the other invert plane without comming undone or further twisted.



effect4:



isolating the tangle, moving the hands around the tangle, stopping the heads relative to the hands, heads continue when hands stop moving.





not a lot of knoledge i think, there are some hazy things, one of them being the 'jump' you describe above, which is new effect, because it involves a diffrent kind of tangle, i think. thats what im after, the bare bones of tech, combos i can come up with, or can be easily described once the effect is sorted. but i want the effect, i want to be able to say, poi does this when tangled.



see?



EDIT



ok, having read a bit more on sheraclism (orhoweveryouspellit) i think i might have a better idea of stuff...



effect 5:



concerns effects 1 and 2. im gonna call it knotting for the moment, its when either you go into a buzzsaw tangle with the wrong head, or comming out of a buzzsaw tangle with the wrong head, making a knot where one poi has a extra twist outside/inside to the other. effect 2 (perpetual tangling between the arms) still operates, but there are diffrent rules for untangling. its what happens when you get the untangle from a buzzsaw tangle wrong, is a knot.



happens in butterfly aswell, when you get one poi coming inside the arms and one outside, but in reverse, because butterfly tangles are perpetual on the outside and twist up between the arms.



how effect 5 actually works is what i want to know.



T wave


EDITED_BY: [Nx?] (1080266847)


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Rev
Rev

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Posted:ok now I could be wrong on this but I think that it isn't so much the entering that matters... any effect one will do.. because what is happening is that you are only taking the odd beat out of the effect 2 and then bringing it back it which -maintains- the tangle effect in one of two ways...



either a) it is a simple effect one that has one beat twist.. when it untwists the tangl will jump.. why? because it is quiting and reforming the tanlge that quick.. this is why it helps to ahve the hands at the 12:00 and 6:00 beceuse it catches the string so fast that the string never appears to really untwist.. the retwsiting opens up a space that spirals as the strings are spinning giving the optical illusion that the not does then doesnt the does exist..



b) when done with higher beats.. preferably evne beats.. it isnt as easy to tug it back into the buzzsaw... and these last longer.. because this in effect reduces the tanlge by one beat.. and sets it back across



basically you are just providing yourself with a chance to resituate the buzzsaw.. which only requires one beat.. like passing the bttom or top of a buzzsaw fountain.. this is infintely more time efficient with your tangled effect, in my opinion..



this is a precursor to another thing I'm working on, which is taking an effect 2 and having it spin a sphere instead of a circle..by again using isolation like motions to help me change the planes of swing in a manner to get an atom or sphere effect. I really like the idea of spinning the effect 2's as balls instead of 2d circles....


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Dragon7
Dragon7

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Posted:Yes Reverend, (which is what you should be call, because of the sermon" wink I think i understand you now, though it may be a little eaiser if you could plz use more paragraph's and sometimes "less is more"



But (sry) that is not the move i was talking about when i said "hyp fountain". To me thats a whole other ball park, and even though it was a real good description and some nice fundamentals have been laid out, id like to know how this thread went from btb hyp to Multibeat airwraps?



Could you (sometime) plz add the body position to your basic diag, because i think your moving your hands alot, (with the same move right) but what i was talking about was moving the tangle, ie move it to w/w, a.k.a side on btb was the origonal name, and changing the direction of the poi, (but also i let my chains come appart) although i do know that what your talking can be done exactly the same as what i just said, the only thing is "your keeping the chains tangled and your doing buzzsaw". IM NOT DOING BUZZSAW. *cough* sry, although yes it would be cool got get hyp fountain buzzsaw.



But some cool ideas anyway thank you. (And yes nx, rev's diag IS the move iv been trying to describe to you for about a year). I call it "keeping the chains tangled, or continuous(sp) hyp".

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[Nx?]
[Nx?]

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both
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Posted:thank you dragon, a million times thank you. beerchug

*Nx goes to work*

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Rev
Rev

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Posted:well I wasn't trying to explain anyones anything.. I was just explaining things I had been playing with.. not meaning to really coinincide with much of anything.. othern then hey.. this is fun..

Rev is short for reverend..


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Rev
Rev

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Posted:ok look.. I've come to the conclusion that during the very limited amount of time I had to spin, I only spun one thing.. tangles.. and I came to the conclusions that if you.. (pardon the use of old terms) hyperloops you can get a knot.. and if you airwrap you can get a knot.. and you don't need to hyperloop into and airwrap or do anything funky with an airwrap to get a knot.. not the knot in the diagram above.. a knot.. this has propelled me to admit that I don't have a clue about any of this tangle biz..
the only thing I do know is that one you enter perpendicular tanlge.. whether it be laid flat like an airwrap or not.. ie. the tangled buzzsaw.. your poi lock.. and if not previously linked they link.. this link and lock creates the knot.. and the knot serves 1 purpose: to lock the orbit in place.. once locked, you then start a second orbit.. the best way I can describe this is to have you think of those machines Nasa uses to test pilots.. they strap you in to this bad.. that is attached by an axis to a circle, which is atached by an axis to another circle, andsso forth...
the difference is that each axis on that machine hooks to the end of the circle.. with poi the circle is the orbit.. so our axis goes straight through that 'circle'.. when dealing with a normal airwraps/hyeprloop/ etc.. we are ususallykeeping it 2d..in the resepct that for the most part ourhands, the planes, etcs are parallel with the poi orbit.. when you get into the buzzsaw this become perpendicular.. it becomes weird.. and I knew that a straight spin with the poi, would if timed right.. add twists to the tangle.. if reversed and timed well, it would untangle the whole thing leaving you with a regular buzzsaw... however, it wasn't entirelyaccurate...

see if you think of it like the nasa thing up there.. I have a makeshift axis when I spin my tangle.. and as long as I am moving it motions that work with the tangle (vague but it has to be because some of these are directions reverese from the spin) I can kjeep the tanlge moving in all sorts of orbits.. thus getting a 3 d as I call it ball, where the poi orbit about one axis, then another then another..

originally I thought all of this required full circles.. it doesnt.. it requires partial circles.. and partial spheres if you will because my hand may be moving in a motion that is clockwise and away from me wall plane, but have to come up and tward me buzzsaw style and then I think back clockwise horixzontally? I dunno.. my brain is fried.. I've been trying to work on this and my schoolwork and it isn't working.. I'm getting more confused as I go along.. to boot I can't diagram this nonsense because of the fact that it is 3d not 2d like we have been working (yes I know we really spin in 3d, but I'm using this as a type of reference since I don't know how else to explain it.. ) so basically when I was talking about getting hand motions into it. what I meant was finding this perfect gyral spin.. see you can find the right timing on a buzzsaw, or hyperlooping buzzsaw, to 'wind' the tanlge.. it feels like winding a clock and has the motions of peddling a bike but isn't really an isolation... its to slow to be and isoaltion.. althought it should be isolating relative to something itn the respect that you are finding the right speed of the outer axis to compliment and spin the inner axis.. If you can master this skill then master all of the gyral turns.. then you can pretty much sit and spin orbs all day..

anyway.. that's it.. I'm out for a bit.. gotta slow down some.. get my schoolwork done.. clear my head a little.. hope somebody can make enough sense of that to make it clear to others.. hopefully when I come back you guys will have some cool new sutff..

peace out.


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simian
simian

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Posted:Quote:
Rev is short for reverend





oh right, i thought it was short for revolution, as in stuff going in circles

hmm, i suppose lots of words start with Rev% though...



anyhoo, i taught someone how to do wallplane btb and btb waistwrap hyperloops in under 30 seconds yesterday.



ok, he could hyperloop already pretty well already.

ok, and he's already really good at btb waistwrap.

ok, and my method of tutoring consisted mainly of me sayingQuote:
"have you tried doing tangles behind the back or waistwrapped?"



which was followed by him saying

Quote:
"no..."

~stretch~tangle~untangle~tangle~stretch~untangle~

"...oh, that's cool!"



So basically i reckon i'm the most awesome teacher ever ubbangel wink


"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."

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Rev
Rev

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Posted:yeah... that would be some pretty excellent teaching methods.. I'm going to have to remember that...

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