Dementia
member
Location: Los Angeles
Member Since: 28th Mar 2003
Total posts: 8
Posted:what is it called when you have the two poi swinging opposite directions such that the two of them would hit eachother if they crossed paths. like, i know thats what thread the needle essentiall is, but im doing this on the same axis as i would the weave, from left to right. so its like a side ways TTN. i was doing this with the 2beat TTN (some call it 4 beat apparently) as well as just doing a one beat and crossing from side to side. its a neat trick, sort of awkard at first. but i was just curious about what anyone else knows about this technical move.

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flid
flid

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Warwickshire
Member Since: 27th Aug 2002
Total posts: 3136
Posted:butterfly on one side of your body for a beat, then butterfly on the other side in the reverse direction for a beat and back again? Butterfly weave

you can do it with ttn instead of butterfly, makes it a bit harder if you're sadistic.

Can be nice to do a butterfly/ttn fountain, esp if you on the centre beat wrap and go into 5 beat weave fountain


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Jello
ambiguous
Location: Mpls, MN, USA
Member Since: 29th Jan 2002
Total posts: 646
Posted:ahhh fountains...

not like I can actually do one. but anyways, thanks for suggestion the ttn weave, while I can only ttn in the forward direction I'll have to learn reverse so I can try that out, though visualizing it now is giving me a headache...


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Izabil
member
Location: Portugal
Member Since: 17th Jan 2002
Total posts: 12
Posted:I know how stupid this must seem, but... what's a ttn?

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bender
still can't believe it's not butter
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Member Since: 14th Nov 2001
Total posts: 6979
Posted:hey matey, ttn = thread the needle or tickle the navel.
navels are like armies only wetter.


Laugh Often, Smile Much, Post lolcats Always

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PK_
PK_

Lambretta Fanatic

Member Since: 20th Dec 2001
Total posts: 4991
Posted:there is no butterfly or TTN fountain.

a fountain is a big circle made up with 14 smaller circles doing cross follow.
think about it.


PK.

"To be an angel, one need not have wings.
In giving love there is an equal grace.
Nor need one seek the aura in the face,
As love unveils the beauty of all things."

*Francois Couperin.

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coleman
coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay
Member Since: 29th Aug 2002
Total posts: 7330
Posted:it does work in bf though pk...
its just really hard and looks a bit funny.

have you tried *reverse* fountains (another glass headtwister )?


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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Jo
Jo

member
Location: Sheffield, England
Member Since: 13th Dec 2000
Total posts: 517
Posted:Hi,

There's a few TTN variations in this vid:) :

http://jez.i8.com/Jo-5bt-bfl-weave.wmv
br>
wouldn't have repeated the link here except you might have missed it in the 5bt butterfly thread.

Jo.


Educate yourself in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

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PK_
PK_

Lambretta Fanatic

Member Since: 20th Dec 2001
Total posts: 4991
Posted:howd you make it a fountain then?... talk to me techy, yeah you can do a fountain type thing with BF, but fountain is a move on its own.
this argument has been done over and over.
please give it another name other than fountain.

oh even the gandini club swinging video got a fountain wrong! if my memory serves me corectly.


PK.

"To be an angel, one need not have wings.
In giving love there is an equal grace.
Nor need one seek the aura in the face,
As love unveils the beauty of all things."

*Francois Couperin.

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coleman
coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay
Member Since: 29th Aug 2002
Total posts: 7330
Posted:hey pk - good to see you back around - have ya got the net connection in now then?
but for now to the matter @ hand...

the gandini's spin a perfect fountain but they count it wrong.
someone had to point the numbers mistake out to me though - i can't count

i reckon with poi that 'fountain' is a family of moves rather than just the one move of 'a cross-follow span at 6 points on a full arm circle'.

i know there was a time around here when every move named ended up having 'fountain' in the title somewhere but i think this is a bit different.

with clubs 'fountain' is just one move. but poi aren't clubs and there's a few variations now with poi that don't transfer to clubs.
moves i consider in fountain family are any spun with the familiar 'small circles tracing out a large circle in the wall plane'.
we now have regular fountains, reverse fountains, isolated fountains, reverse isolated fountains (dark - possibly only spinnable while in the matrix), hyperloop fountains ( ask that jackelero bloke) and possibly now bf fountains.

i have to say, i can't spin a bf fountain (or 'a butterfly weave at six points on a full arm circle' if you prefer ) so i can't say what it looks like.
i'd imagine though that it wouldn't look out of place if you were spinning fountains and switched to bf but continued the 'big circle' thing.

i guess its all a bit arbitrary though - its just the way i happen to file things in me head


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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PK_
PK_

Lambretta Fanatic

Member Since: 20th Dec 2001
Total posts: 4991
Posted:just wanted to argue the toss wiv ya haha

back next tuesday dude..finaly


PK.

"To be an angel, one need not have wings.
In giving love there is an equal grace.
Nor need one seek the aura in the face,
As love unveils the beauty of all things."

*Francois Couperin.

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coleman
coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay
Member Since: 29th Aug 2002
Total posts: 7330
Posted:if anyone ever asks why our little lines under our member names are what they are, we can just point them to the last two posts here

"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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Richee
HOP librarian
Location: Prague
Member Since: 15th Jan 2002
Total posts: 1841
Posted:What's different between reverse isolated fountain and isolated fountain?..I think nothing....
If fountain is regualr circle transition,how it would look like with BF.I think isn't BF(TTN) fountain just some hotch-potch with BF..
If you think that exist describe it exactly.


POI THEO(R)IST

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.Morph.
.Morph.

addict
Location: Lancashire, UK
Member Since: 23rd Mar 2002
Total posts: 669
Posted:Isolated fountain? Is that where the poi stay still and you spin 14 times around them

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PK_
PK_

Lambretta Fanatic

Member Since: 20th Dec 2001
Total posts: 4991
Posted:now your talking Mr morph

PK.

"To be an angel, one need not have wings.
In giving love there is an equal grace.
Nor need one seek the aura in the face,
As love unveils the beauty of all things."

*Francois Couperin.

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coleman
coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay
Member Since: 29th Aug 2002
Total posts: 7330
Posted:nice one morph tried doing 'full isolations ' (spin poi but leave them spinning in the same place no matter which move you are doing) but it was far too hard.

skunk can do some of this type of stuff really well but i doubt he can spin a fountain like that!

richee - there is a difference between fountain and rev fountain (same goes for isolated, hyperlooped versions):

normal fountain - if poi spin clockwise, big arm circle goes clockwise.

reverse fountain - if poi spin clockwise, big arm circle goes anti-clockwise.

and if you understand that, then you can imagine a bf fountain as a combination of these two moves (just in the same way a bf weave is a combo of a fwd weave and a rev weave). not that i can spin one yet (although i did nail rev buzzsaw fountain on my birthday which leaves me one step away from rev iso fountains ).

i love these fountain discussions.

[ 17. May 2003, 06:31: Message edited by: coleman ]


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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Richee
HOP librarian
Location: Prague
Member Since: 15th Jan 2002
Total posts: 1841
Posted:Ok..I thought that..

ehm..another question:

I can do both isolated fountains but something interested me in.When I do lower or upper transition to the other side poi aren't isolated.It's the middle part like in BTN fountain.In one small moment poi divide..is it mistake?



POI THEO(R)IST

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coleman
coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay
Member Since: 29th Aug 2002
Total posts: 7330
Posted:richee - i have the same problem mate. for example doing clockwise isolations and going from left to right (over the top), right poi stays isolated and the left swings over the top half of a normal circle before dropping back into the isolation.

every single time i have managed to pull off this transfer keeping it locked into an isolation, it tangles.
in fact, barrring lucky bounces (which i could *never* make repeatable) that tangle happens 100% of the time i get the transfer 'right'.
makes me very sceptical as to whether it is possible to keep full isolation in this or any move which requires crossing hands...

if someone shows me its possible, i'll take it back but until then, close will just have to be good enough for us man


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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Richee
HOP librarian
Location: Prague
Member Since: 15th Jan 2002
Total posts: 1841
Posted:coleman - I think it goes without tangles(it isn't poor idea ). I caught both end of poi with opposite hand like in isolation and tried how it would be possible (lower part,upper transition is the same or similar(I hope ).

I found the important: I do infront of me the middle part of BTN fountain (something like TTN) but isolated and after that left<->right transition is "easy"...
Do u agree with it?

[ 08. May 2003, 23:44: Message edited by: Richee ]


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coleman
coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay
Member Since: 29th Aug 2002
Total posts: 7330
Posted:i don't know man - i know for certain i can't do it!

my confusion comes from the fact that with normal spins, you make transitions by moving the centre of the spin. with an isolated spin, you make a transition by moving your hand which is at the radius of the spin.
this gives you a much bigger transition 'cross-section'.
by 'cross-section' i mean if you look from above or the front, the cross-section is the area used by the poi when passing from one plane to another.
minimum cross-section would be a poi spinning in plane with the centre static.

gonna get tricky to explain now...
look at the lines you get between poi heads and your hands when you make a transition (the diagonal of the cross-section if you like).
if you change planes by moving the centre of the spin (like with normal spinning), the chains at worst will make a diagonal line between where the poi head was spinning in the original plane and the centre of the new plane (where your hand has moved to).

now, looking from the front/above an isolated spin, as your hand starts to move in one direction, the poi head (on the other side of that circle) will move in the opposite direction.
this means you get a much larger cross-section with isolated spins.
a poi head will start in one plane and as the hand moves into the new plane, the poi will move slightly in the other direction before being forced into the new plane by the adjusted spin and the fact that the chain is a fixed length (try transitioning isolations with stretchy poi if you don't get why the fixed length makes a difference).

so, all this babble basically says the following:

when isolated, poi have a larger cross-section on transitions.
in an isolated buzzsaw, the chains are close together and the centres of the spin in line.
this means there is a larger crossing of the poi cross-section on transitions and hence a much increased chance of tangling.

hope that made some sense at least.


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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Richee
HOP librarian
Location: Prague
Member Since: 15th Jan 2002
Total posts: 1841
Posted:true,true... R. head know,but hands still dont understand..

POI THEO(R)IST

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Le Skunk
member
Location: NYC, New York, USA
Member Since: 2nd May 2001
Total posts: 84
Posted:somebody say something about me? i have to admit, as soon as you guys start throwing out btn ttn bf isolated fountain type terms and follow with when hand a crosses over leg b with body position c and then add numbers of beats my brain actually makes a clicking sound as it turns off. it's kinda like when my computer overheats...blue screen...

anyway, time to go up to the roof and reactivate myself with some of my namesake.

so to agree with coleman like i said not sure what you guys are all talking about but i actually do not do much isolation type stuff cause my chains are too long and the metal ring handles make shortening them quite painful and unwieldy, so i doubt i can do that move...yeah i know excuses excuses

peax


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