Forums > Beginner Poi Moves > hyperloop help/weirdness

Posted: 2nd Apr 2003
Ive seen videos of people doing em with ball chain. Havent gotten into hyperloops myself so I wont be much help. But from what I gather, they arent supposed to just keep spinning. You tangle them and untangle them by bouncing em at a certain point in the rotation.

Let's turn those old bridges we crossed into ashes.
We'll blaze a new trail,
and torch the rough patches.

-Me

Posted: 2nd Apr 2003
First of all.... while some types of chain/string, etc are better than others, theoreticaly anything will work. I even did a hyperloop with thick double rope fire poi a while back.

Ok, are we talking about butterfly hyperloops or weave hyperloops or corkscrew hyperloops?

With an outside weave hyperloop they will not just keep spinning at the new center after an equal number of beats on both sides. (if you wrap for 3 beats and bring over to the other side, they will come unwraped after 3 beats)

With outside inside outside (buzzsaw hyperloop, from a weave) you start by wraping the chains onthe outside, and then, when you bring them inside the poi will continue to spin there at the new center untill the momentum runs out and they colapse, or untill you make them exit to the opposite side o oyur body. ***You also must only have even numbered beats inside***, as you will creat a knot if you do an odd number inside. When you bring them back out after an odd number of inside beats, you will get a knot in the poi.

Something else you may or may not be aways of. All the weave hyperloops (including buzzsaw) start on one side of your body and exit on the other. IE you wrap them on the left and exit on the right (or vise versa)

With 2+ beat butterfly hyperloops, the wrap starts inside, and if you bring it outside then it will continue to go as long as momentum keeps up (or as long as you can bounce it) untill the poi heads hit that eachother. after you bring it back inside on the opposite side of oyur body, it will start to unwrap. after an equal number of beats you will come out of it.


Corkscrew hyperloops....if I could explain them I would, but just because I can do one doesn't mean I know how it is happening.

to get the butterfly hyperloop to unwrap there two methods. the first is to make it soe the planes are perfectly verticle, then move your arms arounf the planes so that the wrap hapens and unhappens. The second way is to make it so the planes are a little funky, then the arms can simply stay put and the hyperloop will come undone on its own (I call this version the "corkscrew character hyperloop")

In case you need more help, I can only sugest simply giving it a try, and see what happens. Through persistence and blind luck you will eventual learn something (it worked for me )

Failing that you can always watch my video. I happen to have a tutorial on hyperloops posted on my web site

https://www.flamingsphere.homestead.com/divxencoded.html

Our band width will role over tommorrow. So you will need to wait another 8 hours from now to download the video.

BTW I am using med dog chain, twist link, chrome plated...it's my favorite

we eat and we drink and we smoke and we try!

Posted: 3rd Apr 2003
ok, i finally got to be able to watch that video. my computer doesn't like it, but i downloaded it onto a friends computer.
so i think at this point i know how to do the regular weave hyperlooop, its just a matter of practice.
i think one of my big problems was that i would tangle them on one side, and bring them over to the other without waiting for them to make a few circles. somehow that translated into something odd and unexpected, i don't know why.
now i have a new problem, in that i keep crossing the poi so htat they aren't even (one chain is closer to the head than the other), which really screws it up. but i'll fix that eventually.
with the butterfly htperloops, are you getting into them by just sort of screwing up a butterfly by speeding up one of the chains, then turning it so it unwraps?
and the corkscrew one, do you do that by sort of starting what HOP calls the "triple quadruple corkscrew" except wrapping the chains instead of your wrists?
and for buzzsaw hyperloops i'm assuming i'd want to be using pretty damn heavy poi, because the ones i've got right now just die pretty quickly.
sorry if this stuff is really self explanatory by now. its just really hard to tell if what i'm doing is correct at all.
sorry for the barrage of questions.
i much appreciate the help.

Posted: 3rd Apr 2003
corkscrew hyps are equivalent to inside (buzzsaw) hyps but in the horizontal plane.

with the basic hyperloop on one side (from a weave, hands @ 6 & 12 on a clock), your hands are in a 4bt weave arrangement but separated.
similarly with the corkscrew hyp your hands will be in the 4bt corkscrew style but separated (one above the other). like you said, chains wrap instead of wrists (check this if ya don't get it).
its loads easier top to bottom and 'side of body' equates to poi spinning above or below *both* arms.

incidentally, you can do outside inside outside hyps going in and coming out on the same side.
they work like the original airwrap that i saw (the little poppy ones that stay on the same side of you body and seem to just do everything by themselves).
i think unwrapping is about what side of the hyperloop 'knot' the chains are on, not what side of the body the poi are on...
arashi! help...!?

as for weight, my favourite poi for solid hyperloops are 0.2kg poi heads with no tails - aerotech balls in nets. they're lush for isolations too

and finally... "bouncing"??!!!? yuk!

"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

Posted: 3rd Apr 2003

quote:

---

Originally posted by coleman:
and finally... "bouncing"??!!!? yuk!

---

Ha ha I knew you'd appear when I read that

"Moo," said the happy cow.

Posted: 3rd Apr 2003


coleman, could you explain that again?

"incidentally, you can do outside inside outside hyps going in and coming out on the same side.
they work like the original airwrap that i saw (the little poppy ones that stay on the same side of you body and seem to just do everything by themselves).
i think unwrapping is about what side of the hyperloop 'knot' the chains are on, not what side of the body the poi are on..."

And I second the motion!!!

arashi! help...!?

I was under the impresion that it was required for a wrap to exit on the opposite side of the body/tangle/knot. so wrap outside right, inside, unwrap outside left. I honestly can't say that I am surprised to learn there is an exception to this "rule". (I am way past being surprised by drastic changes to my poi paradime) But it does seem a little funky.

we eat and we drink and we smoke and we try!

Posted: 3rd Apr 2003
Oh yes, and there is NOTHING wrong with bouncing.

we eat and we drink and we smoke and we try!

Posted: 3rd Apr 2003
thanks a lot for your vids santana, i downloaded one of them a few weeks ago but didn't have a proper go until tonight. I've gotten the reverse butterfly, turn right 90 degrees and wrap, turn back and unwrap back into reverse butterfly one going pretty good. Awesome move, thanks a lot!

I don't do it exactly the same as you, when i do it the chains seem to twist together doing maybe 7 or 8 revolutions, not a couple. Haven't tried it with fire yet, but i reckon it'd look pretty good. On a side note, if i don't try to pull them appart and leave them locked together they are quite good for doing a buzzsaw type move. Haven't figured out untangling them effectively (ie without me stopping and haaving aa jiggle) after doing some 'locked together buzzsaw'

Now gotta work on the windmill ones...

Oh and as my contribution to the thread, I tried them with cable poi, chain poi and ballchain tonight. In my uneducated opinion, cable poi are by the best, they slip off much easier than chain when you want to leave the hyperloop.

Posted: 4th Apr 2003
santana I think he might be talking about the move where your hands start at 3 and 9 o'clock and you wrap your poi together a short distance from the heads... they tangle and untangle almost immediately then and you can just carry on with your weave or whatever.

"Moo," said the happy cow.

Posted: 4th Apr 2003
uhhh... jesus i'd need a year just to get through this text!! man i need to get us hooked up with one of these fans of ours that owns a video net server, for all our sakes...

yeah, uhh, i like medium machine twisted chrome chain best too...

-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.

Posted: 4th Apr 2003
what the lovely mr x described there was what some people call a 'basic airwrap' and is exactly how the one sided outside inside outside hyp works.
maybe better descirbed as an airwrapped buzzsaw but whatever

the reason it pops out by itself when you do it near the heads is (i think) because the heads force each other out of plane and thus the knot untangles.

you can force this by skewing the chains as you come out on the same side after a tangled buzzsaw.
i don't know what else i can say really. my hands both go in and come out at the 3-9 positions.

on the issue of bounce: i like to bounce but i don't let my poi do it. only tight chains and tight planes for me please.
i think we'll have to agree to disagree on this one dan - moohaahaa will back you up here but if it comes to fisticuffs you'll be on your own (bloody hippies ).

"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

Posted: 4th Apr 2003
Hey coleman, what you said "because the heads force each other out of plane and thus the knot untangles." that is also the reason the "corkscrew character butterfly hyperloop" works. You don't need to move your arms arouund the poi, the planes get funky and the knot untangles itself.

Makes me feel good to know you got my back, but...
what is a "fisticuffs"???

we eat and we drink and we smoke and we try!

Posted: 4th Apr 2003

quote:

---

Originally posted by santana:
Makes me feel good to know you got my back, but... what is a "fisticuffs"???

---

Trust me you don't want to know... it's very deviant

"Moo," said the happy cow.

Posted: 4th Apr 2003
stop it you nauty boy!

we eat and we drink and we smoke and we try!

Posted: 7th Apr 2003
HEY!!! fisticuffs is just fist fighting, I asked several people...

I am very gulible sometimes, and I belived you... now I feel.... violated...


I know it is tempting to look at hyperloop weaves and corkscrew hyperloops as being the same (except in a different plane) but this is not the case. there is this strange effect that your arms have. being on the left and right, your arms do not cross in the same manner as up and down.

that is a 3 beat weave is different from a 3 beat corkscrew.

we eat and we drink and we smoke and we try!

Posted: 7th Apr 2003
fair enough, 3bt corkscrew is different to 3bt weave. do you do 3bt corkscrew's anyway? they must look pretty messy!

but no matter which plane i do them in, i don't cross my arms when i do inside hyperloops...?

the only difference i see is the difference in the orientaion due to gravity (you get a slight cone in corkscrew if you do them slowly).

"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

Posted: 7th Apr 2003

quote:

---

Originally posted by santana:
First of all.... while some types of chain/string, etc are better than others, theoreticaly anything will work. I even did a hyperloop with thick double rope fire poi a while back.

---

And just to second that
I'm spinning teabags when I'm waiting for the water to boil and have managed a 2 beat buttetfly
hyperloop and a 3 beat reverse tangeled buzzsaw...... So anything's spinnabal.......
Need a camcorder for christmas I think... .

I like Fire.. :)

Posted: 7th Apr 2003
that's so funny "I'm spinning teabags"

I was spinning plastic grocery sacks (filled with food) yesterday, as I left the store.

Do they have a name for what's wrong with us?

obsesive compulsive disorder? Is that what it is?


Ok, I didn't realy mean that I "cross my arms" normaly

However, in order to do the same things weave as you do corkscrew, you would have to cross your arms. Trust me on this. I spent a long time last week working with a weave to buzzsaw and corkscrew to buzzsaw and there is deffinitly a difference. When you hold your arms strait out and keep you torso verticle, it is impossible to do a normal weave in the horizontal plane (did I just say "imposible"? Somebody slap me... )


there are 2 reasons: your arms are side-by-side, and the planes are relative to arm possition.

a corkscrew can go into a sideways buzzsaw at any point in time. a weave can only go into a buzzsaw from a t beat, and 2 beat weaves are either right over left or left over right.

so therefor, the variations on a corkscrew have different structures that the variations on a weave, even though a two beat weave and a 2 beat corkscrew are physicaly the same (the poi are doing the same thing even though the underlying structures are different)

To prove this.....

do a weave, now, go into a buzsaw. if you do the weave on the right and buzzsaw and move to the weave on the left, the move immediatly befor the buzzsaw is a 2 beat weave left over right moving from left side to right side. the opposite is true of a weave-buzzsaw-weave that travels from left to right.

A corkscrew can go into a buzzsaw at anypoint, without regard to which hand is on top or bottom

to do the same thing with a weave, your arms would have to be crossed in front of you, with a buzzsaw in the middle. this move is extreamly difficult. try it. cross your arms in front of you so your elbows touch, and try and do a buzzsaw did you get it? probably not, but if you did, you'll see that it is a very awkward, and non-gracefull arangment.

All this has direct bearing on the structure and function of the corkscrew hyperloop and weave hyperloop. they are not the same move mearly in different planes, they are in fact, totaly different animals. They do not function the same. Even though I do not totaly understand the mechanisms of my corkscrew hyperloop, I do know that it is not the same as the weave hyperloop.

There some very weird things going on here. I appologize for my inability to further clarify the issue at this time.

we eat and we drink and we smoke and we try!

Posted: 8th Apr 2003
i'm very thankful you all are willing to discuss this stuff, i know its a bit hard to explain or understand from dscriptions, but personally this is the only source of help i'm really able to get on this more technically challenging shtuff.

i've been playing around with this a lot (its basically all i've been doing with my poi lately)trying to figure out what's going on.
one thing i noticed is that its much easier with shorter chains. i don't knwo if anyone else thinks this, but i found that they have much less tendency to die mid-tangle. i think this helps a lot while trying to learn it because when they die its hard to tell if what i was doing was right.
and with longer chains i have a tendency to hit the upper arm.
also, now i have another thing happening that i think is not what i'm going for. so i tangle them on the left while doing a forward weave and bring it across, and they keep spinning around each other but don't untangle, but if i then keep turning so that i go a complete 360 degrees then they will untangle. i suspect taht this is becasue i'm not waiting for them to spin around each other enough at the beginning (on my left side), but i don't know. from the videos it didn't look like this is what's supposed to be happening.

quite interesting, this poi magic.

Posted: 8th Apr 2003
santana - am @ work right now but should get a chance to investigate this further later...

the buzzsaw with arms crossed thing seems to make sense as to why the weave is intrinsicly (sp?)different but i am still unconvinced that the buzzsawed hyperloop is a different move (the orientation of the arms before the move shouldn't affect it).

have you tried setting up a video on its side to compare the two? looks crazy! we got some upsidedown juggling footage at the weekend which is always good for a laugh too.

leliel - hyps are def easier with shorter chains (as are most moves to be honest).
and you don't have to thank us! it doesn't take much to get me and dan to go off on hyperloop rants hope some of it is helping.

"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

Posted: 8th Apr 2003

we eat and we drink and we smoke and we try!

Posted: 8th Apr 2003
oh yea, about that 360..... I have seen plenty of strange stuff when it comes to poi. sometimes I come out of a hyperloop weave by turning 180 at the last second.

we eat and we drink and we smoke and we try!

Posted: 10th Apr 2003
finally sorted this in my head dan.

i think the reason you are finding the difference in entering buzzsaw in a weave may be because you are spinning an odd beat weave (3bt rather than 2bt as corkscrews are).

i still have trouble getting into a buzzsaw from a corkscrew on the bottom (if you look from above, i am doing anti-clockwise cs and leading with my right hand) but have no probs going in from either side when spinning a normal 2bt weave. the right (leading) poi leads into the middle instead of crossing over.
i don't end up with a crossed arm buzzsaw.

surely this is equivalent to a 2bt corkscrew?

"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

Posted: 10th Apr 2003
i reckon its cos gravity is making it all cone shaped and to make a buzzsaw you need them to be exactly parallel

try spinning them faster to defy gravity

If at first you don't succeed, then skydiving isn't for you!