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Page: 1234
NYC


NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA

Total posts: 9232
Posted:I'm finding it interesting that the 50/50 male/female mix doesn't seem to hold for the Poi Moves section. I wonder why that is...

(Yes, I know there are a few females that frequent it but the ratio is nowhere near equal as it is in "social" let's say...)

I could make a few sociodemographical guesses as to why (different ways males and females learn, differences in why males and females communicate, ect.) but I do find it interesting.


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

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arashi


arashi

Pooh-Bah
Location: austin,tx

Total posts: 2364
Posted:yo i got more grace and agility in my pinky than you gals got in every bone in ya! i have a boody bone, it lends support to my groove muscle. located directly adjacent to my boody chakra, which happens to be open, throbbing and pulsating with bassnectar at this moment. ya'll didn't know i was a groove mutant, eh? or apparently that i was canadian, eh?

-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.

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_Stix_


_Stix_

Pooh-Bah
Location: la-la land

Total posts: 2419
Posted:quote:Originally posted by it's pronounced a-da-she:
yo i got more grace and agility in my pinky than you gals got in every bone in ya! i have a boody bone, it lends support to my groove muscle. located directly adjacent to my boody chakra, which happens to be open, throbbing and pulsating with bassnectar at this moment. ya'll didn't know i was a groove mutant, eh? or apparently that i was canadian, eh?



shake dat boody, shake dat boody.. da da daaa da..

[ 10. March 2003, 11:00: Message edited by: MisStix ]


I honour you as an aspect of myself..

You are never to old to storm a bouncey castle..

Delete

arashi


arashi

Pooh-Bah
Location: austin,tx

Total posts: 2364
Posted:

bulldozer rolley love squad, attack!!!!


-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.

Delete

DJ Dantana
BRONZE Member since Aug 2001

veteran
Location: Stillwater, Ok. USA

Total posts: 1495
Posted:march my pretties!

we eat and we drink and we smoke and we try!

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DJ Dantana
BRONZE Member since Aug 2001

veteran
Location: Stillwater, Ok. USA

Total posts: 1495
Posted:Ok, you asked for it, here is the introducctory Pharagraph for my next poi paper.

Operator Methods in Quantum Mexican Wave Mechanics: This paper discusses Mathematical foundations of non-relativistic Mexican Wave mechanics, vector spaces, operator methods for discrete and continuous high-low butterfly fountains. The function of mexican wave theory is a generalised form of the Uncertainty Principle and the Simple Harmonic Oscillator. Delta-function potential of the butterfly weave as well as the Angular Momentum Eigenvalues/Eigenvectors of the Angular Momentum operators (Orbital/Spin) causes a shift from the forwards to the "reverse" butterfly during a Spherical Harmonic rotation about the vertical axis of the spinner and their Booty. Angular momentum and rotational invariance due to Booty Shakin usually result in a "recoil" occurance, with minor variations including the "eye wrap" and the "nut stall". Pauli matrices and Spinors may also cause an Addition of Angular Momenta, which is directly proportional to the Groviness of the spinor booty shakin.

My next paper will adress Partial Mexican Wave Analysis, and the Optical Theorem of Green Fire.

You guys aren't the only poi nerds on the block...


we eat and we drink and we smoke and we try!

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Dio


Dio

HoP Mechanical Engineer
Location: OK, USA

Total posts: 729
Posted:And yet he can't even spell "Paragraph" correctly

Where's my big red pen!


What hits the fan is not evenly distributed.

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Flynt
SILVER Member since May 2002

Flynt

Intrepid Penguin
Location: , Australia

Total posts: 5635
Posted:having skimmed through most of this post, it was probably the first time i'd ventured down into the moves section for a while too...

theres a few things i'll agree on: Guys tend to anylise every single move yes. But, unless you are a guy, it seems to be VERY hard to understand those anylisations! i read some of the posts in there, and just click my way out again, shaking my head! some of the descriptions in here, you almost need to speak an entirely new language to understand them. I dont. Therefore i dont come here that often.

Also, new moves seem to be more important to guys. I guess its not so much about "look how nicely i can spin and how much i love it" as much as it is "look how many tricks i can do, and how fast i can do it!"

now, my pardons, as these are both severe generalisations and i do realise that it doesnt cover everyone on this board who posts here, nor the majority of male spinners at all.

Just note, that this area is fairly intimidating for those of us who are just sort of feeling our way out with poi. Particularaly those of us who dont have other ppl to learn with, or create new moves with. I personally find it very confusing and intimidating, whether that is because i'm a girl, or because i dont have the support and learning network that most of you here have, i dont know.


Currently on the right side up of the world.

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Pele
BRONZE Member since Dec 2000

Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA

Total posts: 6193
Posted:EDIT: Agreeing with Flynt! All of it!!!!

*layin da smak down*

Alright Arashi....you and me on the Bellydance floor with Poi! High Noon! I'll bring the Faruk and Domba CD. You just bring yo arse to shimmy!
We'll see whose got grace!

My reasons for not posting here:

It is a pissing contest (NYC, we are telling you it is, please don't try to underplay as if it a minor detail). There were women who posted and were told that moves with the body didn't count in the Jedi-Gravity-Defying-Poi-Moves. It had to be based on the poi alone. That chased them out. When I tried to defend one, I got ripped apart and told I didn't understand! What part of that is any person supposed to enjoy?
It wasn't the first time that happened, and it wasn't the last.

The fact is, this section makes me very uncomfortable.

There is waaaaaaaaay too much "You have to be tech to be here" attitude. There is waaaaaaaay too much "See me, love me, want me" here.
The ego's and attitudes turn me off from finishing a thread, and they really cloud the point of sharing and learning.
I understand childlike enthusiasm for getting something new, but when someone posts something to the contrary or that it has been done long before...or heaven forbid say that for play that's great for a show it might not be, or that the body should be moved...the hellcats seem to come out to play then. It does not make enlightening, educational, enjoyable, engaging or stimulating conversation....and that is what I believe this section should be for. To learn, teach, and share a passion.

I remember when this used to be a "Hey I learned this, now how do I move under it" and "I can get this far, how do I get to point c from a" kind of place. It hasn't really been like that in awhile.
I watched someone get spanked for not knowing what a hyperloop is, and if I mention I don't think they are all that cause I used to do them with my jumprope handles when I was a kid then I get flamed.

Don't get me wrong, I love you guys to death but it's like you walk in here and there is a testosterone test to make it through the door. I may occassionally be "one of the guys" but as a full-blooded chik, it is hard to swallow.

And the men who are active in this thread are not the ones most guilty of it, that is the sad part.

[ 10. March 2003, 16:39: Message edited by: Pele ]


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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DJ Dantana
BRONZE Member since Aug 2001

veteran
Location: Stillwater, Ok. USA

Total posts: 1495
Posted:Hey gurlz, I have been desperatly wanting input from ladies on the style of dance I have been developing, but since there are rarely any ladies that visit the poi moves section, I have been left with almost all guy input. And frankly, most of the "technical pissing contest guys" probably don't care much for watching a guy shake his booty. I don't realy blame them either.

I am not posting it to say "look how great my booty shaking is" I am asking if it looks good to a girl, and if not, what does? Is is revolting? If so, I'll quit tomorrow (just kidding)I do wish we had more girls that posted here. (P.S. When you all get together for this booty shaking contest, you had better not leave me out, I got 55 gallon drum of booty shaking, and I'm gona pour it all over your head!)

I like how girls move their body, and I think "technical spinning" has a lot missing from it. I would rather watch a girl who is a "medium level" spinner who can shake the booty, as opposed to a high level technical spinner who just stands there. I know I am guilty of "just standing there" sometimes, especialy when I do my most technical moves, the ones I am just learning.

The "jedi thread" did disregard the dance and bodily motion of things, (not my choice) but it did have a good reason, and that was to focus on the poi moves, the dance being considered seperate. I feel this should not mean that dancing is not important, but rather that it is something different (apples and oranges) and that it should be discussed separratly.

With that being said, why don't we start a thread about dancing? or even, start several threads about dancing, each with it's own style? would that bring in more girls? It might still take a while though, because if girls aren't visiting here already, then they won't even know that we are talking about this stuff.

(yes, I know my spelling sucks, I have always been retarded at spelling, however I do make up for it in other areas....such as booty shaking ) throws down the gantlet....Arashi, Pele, Glass? booty shaking contest anybody? (as opposed to a pissing contest? )


we eat and we drink and we smoke and we try!

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Ade
SILVER Member since Mar 2001

Are we there yet?
Location: australia

Total posts: 1897
Posted:santanatrue - thank you

you've explained your position very clearly, and I understand your motivations much better now, thanks.

I know, as a 'lady' that I think of poi technicalities and movement together - not seperate, and prefer to think of them together - one impacts the other and the two are considered as a whole package.

yes, I'd like to see threads started in the manner you describe, it's an awesome idea!

I think the topic heading should entice us back down here and maybe a friendly note in the social section?



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Stone
GOLD Member since Jun 2001

Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Total posts: 2830
Posted:People may feel uncomfortable in the poi moves section, but I dont think is gender specific or there is a Boys Club as such. I would suggest that both men and women find learning poi difficult, especially from written descriptions. A lot of men I have talked to also share this opinion.

Personally, I find many of the moves above my head, but I dont see that as a reason to complain. Like, hey guys stop posting all those new moves because I cant do em. I'm just glad they exist and one day, maybe

Honestly, I just see people. A few get into pissing competitions and I find that annoying, but I mostly ignore that part of it, as it seems to go with the territory. And hey, not all of em are males, as some staffers may know.

Pele, the jedi thread was a technical thread. Most of the people who got offended by the thread never actually bothered to READ the thread. I suppose an analogy would be if someone started a dance thread and people started getting into some really, really, off topic technical poi stuff. It would just not be appropriate, and as they say, there are horses for courses. Honestly, it really, really, really, really helps if people actually read a thread before posting. This, one simple fact helps to avoid a lot of confusion and is nearly as important as using the "search function".

Boys Club??? My question, is why women think men dont like to, or cant dance? IMHO you need good technique to become a great dancer.

A dance thread would be welcome


If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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_Stix_


_Stix_

Pooh-Bah
Location: la-la land

Total posts: 2419
Posted:..need to be able to release those hips baby.. give it all a good sha-wing around..

I nkow plenty of guys who don't have the confidence to let go and just flow.. they have told me that they like to be in controll.. and this I find true in most situatios not only poi..


I honour you as an aspect of myself..

You are never to old to storm a bouncey castle..

Delete

NYC


NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA

Total posts: 9232
Posted:Maybe we need to define "pissing contest". I had thought of it as an "I'm better than you at poi" vibe that I really have not seen here recently.

If women are trying to establish "dancing" as a technical move then that's a different conversation. The jedi threads and others like it have a specific topic. I've never seen a "moves" thread on dancing. No one, male or female, had started one. I don't think it belongs in any of the specific, technical, move threads that had been started so far because that would be off topic. I would love to see a new "poi moves" thread on dancing. It's certainly appropriate!

Keep in mind, the technical boys (of whom I don't consider myself a member of but certainly respect) have ALWAYS gotten a HUGE amount of crap for "not danceing."

When people post things along the line of "a girl who does the weave and shakes her T+A is much better than some guy who does a million different moves and doesn't move his butt" threads really disrespects the art and certanly disrespects this type of spinner.

I think that often, the tech spinners are off by themselves because they've been ostrasized by their interest and passion for the techincal.


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

Delete

_Stix_


_Stix_

Pooh-Bah
Location: la-la land

Total posts: 2419
Posted:I agree with you NYC - just becuase a girl got T&A I think it is wrong to think she is a good spinner... we all have different styles - but I think fluidity and 'connection' or 'extension' of the poi is important.. you can do a 5 beat weave really badly and a 5 beat weave with grace and fluidity.. that is the difference - a 5 beat can be done superbly by a technically based spinner.. planes correct - hands in correct positions and body in correct stance.. or it can be done by someone who may not have the plains correct but is able to link it to other moves so that the trasition looks flawless (or almost)... but the discussion could go on for years.. some of us are from venus some of us are from mars.. I for one am glad there is a difference - so I can get more techincal.. just wish I could understand what you was talking boot! Maybe one of you guys could make a dictionary thread??

I honour you as an aspect of myself..

You are never to old to storm a bouncey castle..

Delete

DJ Dantana
BRONZE Member since Aug 2001

veteran
Location: Stillwater, Ok. USA

Total posts: 1495
Posted:no no no, I did not mean "a newbie poi girl that can shake her booty is better than an advanced poi girl who just stands there". What I am saying is that "It is more enjoyable for ME to watch a girl who dances in a sensual manner rather than just stand there".

Deffinition- "Shake your booty" = any form of dance that involves hip motion. I think that stuff is very sexy.

I'm not talking aout T+A, or "big boobies" (pardon the rash jargon, you'll see why I used it), or anything else based on physical appearances(something a girl is born with or modified to have) I am talking about dance and motion, the things it takes skill to do, the things that show a glimps in the the heart and soul, the emmotion, and the aura. It doesn't take skill for a lady to have large breasts or a nice butt, it just requires genetics, exercise or surgery (personally I think cosmetic surgery is degrading, and I would rather a girl be natural, no matter what her physical appearance. I care more about a girls mind than looks).

All I'm talking about is dance. I don't feel it is degrading for a girl to dance with her hips, etc. I think it is beautiful, graceful, sexy, and uterly enjoyable to watch. It awakens something primal inside me. A reflex back to our tribal origins. "yea baby, yea!"

And yes, I would rather watch a girl spin a three beat weave with grace and beauty in a dance, than watch a girl do a 5 beat btb weave and just stand there.

I would rather watch a guy jump around and kick and spin and move his feet, while doing turning weaves and chasing suns and stuff, than watch a guy do seven beat outside inside outside inside outside hyperloop weaves. It is great to see the technical stuff, mostly so we can see how to do it, and see that it can be done. But technical spinning isn't something that I can watch over and over again and still find enjoyment in it.

[ 11. March 2003, 06:00: Message edited by: santanatrue ]


we eat and we drink and we smoke and we try!

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_Stix_


_Stix_

Pooh-Bah
Location: la-la land

Total posts: 2419
Posted:quote:Originally posted by santanatrue:
, than watch a guy do seven beat outside inside outside inside outside hyperloop weaves. baby you lost me again.. but I'll just nod and smile and say I think we are all right.. in varyin degress..


I honour you as an aspect of myself..

You are never to old to storm a bouncey castle..

Delete

DJ Dantana
BRONZE Member since Aug 2001

veteran
Location: Stillwater, Ok. USA

Total posts: 1495
Posted:It's ok misStix, I loose myself sometimes.


I keep forgeting to post a video of that one nauty boy, but yes, I can do it if I realy realy realy try. It's one of those moves that CAN be done, but is almost impossible to complete sucsessfully (without absolute perfection of movement) on the first (or hundredth) try. It doesn' come naturaly unless you get lucky or practice just that one move for a month strait. It is a classic example of super advanced technical spinning. It is one of those moves that requires 100% focus, leaving no room for dance. You have to totaly be in the zone. Time slows down and your full awareness comes into focus. You must count beats exactly, as they go by at a hundred miles an hour. You must become the poi, and because poi don't dance, neither do you. It's a zen thing. That is one of the reasons technical spinners tend to not dance, because the super technical stuff requires all of your focus, which leaves no room in the mind for thinking about booty shakin.


we eat and we drink and we smoke and we try!

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_Stix_


_Stix_

Pooh-Bah
Location: la-la land

Total posts: 2419
Posted:quote:Originally posted by santanatrue:
because poi don't dance, ...butI believe my poi do dance..
me venus and you mars..


I honour you as an aspect of myself..

You are never to old to storm a bouncey castle..

Delete

DJ Dantana
BRONZE Member since Aug 2001

veteran
Location: Stillwater, Ok. USA

Total posts: 1495
Posted:I should clarify something I said earlier, I think cosmetic surgery is bad, unless it is for the purpose of restoring to ORIGINAL condition. That being, if a woman has to have her breasts removed because of cancer, then by all means, restore them to original condition, but don't do it because you boyfreind wants you to have bigger ones so he can look at them. Or if a person (guy or girl) gets in a car accident, and is mangled, or burnt or whatever, by all means, get yourself fixed up if you want to. But don't get surgery because you think your nose is shaped wrong. I guess it is a selfesteame thing and if somebody isn't comfortable withthemselves then they need some help, some love from their fellow human beings. One should be comfortable with one's self. Magazines and TV distort what true beauty is. This is my personal opinion, and nothing more. I also happen to be against sex change operations, but mostly because I wouldn't want to fall in love with a girl (who used to be a guy) and she-man didn't tell me. I would feel violated and cheated, and lied to. It also just feels wrong to me. And we wouldn't be able to have children, which is something important to me. I say this because I saw a beautiful korean rap star on a CD, and I was like "wow, she is so beautiful, I would marry her in an instant" and my freind was like "oh yea, by the way, she used to be a guy" and I was like "damn, I fell for it, if I got with her we wouldn't be able to have children" and he was like "give science twenty more years" when we get to that point...I just don't know what to think. Wait till science can even make eggs for the she-man that are her own genetic material, and even make it so she-man could ovulate, and bear children. Then you would never even know unless you did a blood test. And if she-man never told you you realy would never know the difference. think about that, it is coming one of these days, assuming the world lasts that long.

P.S. I don't know the correct term for this, so I made up the word "she-man". I hope this doesn't offend anybody, and offence was not intended.

anyways, back on subject. girls rock! I love to watch them dance!


we eat and we drink and we smoke and we try!

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NYC


NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA

Total posts: 9232
Posted:adopt

Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

Delete

DJ Dantana
BRONZE Member since Aug 2001

veteran
Location: Stillwater, Ok. USA

Total posts: 1495
Posted:your poi don't dance
and your staff don't rock n roll
I say your poi don't dance
and your staff don't rock n roll
But when evening comes around and it's time to hit the town
Where do you go--You gotta rock it

The old folks say that you gotta end your date by ten
But if you're out on a date don't you bring her home late cause it's a sin
You know there's no excuse, you know you're gonna lose, you never win
I'll say it again

And it's all because

your poi don't dance
and your staff don't rock n roll
I say your poi don't dance
and your staff don't rock n roll

Everyone gather round let me tell you all about it
You see I pulled into a drive-in and I found a place to park
We hopped into the backseat where it's always nice and dark
We're just about to move thinkin' "Bret, this is a breeze"
There's a light in my eye and a guy says "Out of the car, long hair!"

Oowee--you're coming with me
Said the local police

your poi don't dance
and your staff don't rock n roll
I say your poi don't dance
and your staff don't rock n roll

Your poi don't dance, no
She just don't dance, no
Your poi don't dance and your staff don't rock and roll
Ah, yeah


we eat and we drink and we smoke and we try!

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Tempest


addict
Location: Sheffield

Total posts: 522
Posted:Quote from Stone:

"Personally, I find many of the moves above my head, but I dont see that as a reason to complain. Like, hey guys stop posting all those new moves because I cant do em. I'm just glad they exist and one day, maybe"

I would like to second, third and fourth that. (my multiple personalities agree fo once)

Leave the pissers to piss and enjoy the fruits of the technical threads, for there has been many and will be many more.


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Posted:REAL Men dance

<ducks for cover>

but seriously;

I try to do both - dancing and technical...its just that my technical isnt quite as technical as the pure techies stuff is...

Smooth and Fluid - if you got that, then work on the complexity.

Nothing looks worse than someone trying to pull all the badass moves but looking clunky as at all of them... [IMHO]

Josh


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DJ Dantana
BRONZE Member since Aug 2001

veteran
Location: Stillwater, Ok. USA

Total posts: 1495
Posted:werd

we eat and we drink and we smoke and we try!

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NYC


NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA

Total posts: 9232
Posted:What is dancing with poi?

I know I'm in the minority but when it comes to watching other people spin I like my poi smooth and simple. I really dislike the flailing about and running around. I've never seen any decent footwork by any poi spinner. Most people who are mobile are sloppy as I see it.

I'm taking myself completely out of the equation and thinking purely as a spectator.

I know most people disagree but I don't believe that the less you move, the worse it is to look at. This is digressing from the male/female to technical/danceing (which do have some relevance to each other)...

I'll disagree and say I'd rather see a highly technical smooth performance by a person who doesn't move his feet rather than someone doing Capoeira while doing the weave.


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

Delete

DJ Dantana
BRONZE Member since Aug 2001

veteran
Location: Stillwater, Ok. USA

Total posts: 1495
Posted:sounds like a matter of personal taste to me.

I have problems with balance sometimes, when I am using fire and on an uneven surface and haven't spun fire in a while, but other than that I usually don't have problems with my feet. However, I do know that it can get a little awkward sometimes, if I am moving around. Still, on the whole, I think I usually (but not always)have good control of my footwork and balance while I am spinning.


we eat and we drink and we smoke and we try!

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Jaeden
GOLD Member since Sep 2001

member
Location: Edmonton, Canada

Total posts: 220
Posted:Now NYC, what if you come across a good technical spinner who can dance? Would you rather watch that or the same spinner just standing still?

Granted I would much prefer to watch a good techical spinner than some flailing dancer, however I have seen many good technical spinners who know how to dance. I would say it is much more enjoyable to watch them than a more technical spinner who just stands there.


The world is not out to get you but if you fight it you will be eaten alive

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NYC


NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA

Total posts: 9232
Posted:It depends. ONLY if the dancing adds to the performing would I like to see it. Otherwise, just stand still.

I've just never seen dancing that has added to a poi performance. I'm not saying it's not out there, nor am I suggesting that it's impossible. I've just never seen it. I've also never seen a poi spinner who dances alot who's balanced. Usually it's just flailing about. Again, I know I'm a freak but I'd rather watch someone centered and balanced performing smooth tricks which lead into and out of eachother than someone flailing with legs and arms spasming about creating sloppy circles and off beat patterns.

I would tend towards no dancing unless dancing is clean enough to add rather than subtract from a performance.

But I'm wrong.


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

Delete

simian


simian

110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
Location: London

Total posts: 3149
Posted:Hmm, i'd say from a spectators point of view that I prefer nice footwork and grace to ultra-techy stuff any day of the week. Well, except Fridays .

You seem to be seperating dancing and spinning into two things you try to do at the same time, whereas EVERY talented spinner i've ever seen has naturally moved to the rhythm (some more expressively than others). Maybe you just mean something different to me when you say dance.

You've never seen anyone dance well with poi? All I can say is I feel sorry for you, dude. Come down to London and we'll introduce you to DFQ, if you can handle it

(edit: I just stand still and bust moves when i spin, but i WISH i could dance)

[ 12. March 2003, 05:18: Message edited by: Simian ]


"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."

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Posted:eh - I guess it depends on what you call 'dancing'.

However if you mean rhythmic movement to music, then I think if its done well (ie in time, fluid, smooth, etc) and the poi / poi tricks are encorporated well it beats stand still technical juggle style twirling hands down.

Sure there are lots of flailing capoeira/ballet poi wannabees out there, but there are also a lot of people who have a good sense of rhythm and body movement.

I'm sorry you havent seen anyone dance well with poi / stick NYC.

I have to say it seems weird to hear that coming from you, as I know you have been involved in discussions like 'music to twirl to'...surely that implied dance at some level?

Josh


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Page: 1234

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