Forums > Beginner Poi Moves > My Piece/Peace
Login/Join to ParticipateBRONZE Member
the henna lady
6,193 posts
Location: WNY, USA
the henna lady
6,193 posts
Location: WNY, USA
Posted:
So, I moderate these parts and don't post in them.
*removing moderator cap for personal opinion*
Lately I am so upset/disappointed in the amount of "Who's Better" "It's All About YOUR Ego" "Look at What I Can Do" threads on this board.
First of all, if you read through the threads, there is an incredible redundancy happening, just in the moves alone, let alone the other technicalities to poi. No one can agree to disagree, it seems, on these basic realities in what we do:
1. That every move is complex, at some point in time, to each of us.
2. All moves have about 40 names. Just cause you named it something different doesn't mean it is completely new, and there is no point arguing over which name is right.
3. There are different ways/approaches to do the exact same outcome. It's individual style. That is what sets us all apart.
What hurts worse is that there is this "guise of joviality" going on. The smilies, the "Oh, I wasn't serious" bullshit is offensive.
My best example is in one thread someone innocently put up a more acrobatic approach to the butterfly to be told that move wasn't difficult, in fact, the spinning and the bodily motion were both fairly elementary. Then the insultor had the audacity to, in another post, say that he never did anything about his moves being better (but he downplayed everyone else until someone pointed it out to him), or that he didn't out right criticise anyone. I took offense over this, I can only imagine what the person who posted that move felt like, or even others involved in the thread.
I don't in post here normally because there is way too much of "Oh, I learned that when I was, like, 3. Get a new move." which is positively insulting. Malcolm also wants me to make a "Pele" video along the lines of "Sage", and this is one of the reasons why I am so reluctant to even send into COL, let alone make a video. There are ALOT of ego judgements going on here, whether or not you care to publically admit it, and it is saddening.
Everyone is good for where they are at their level, because everyone learns and moves differently.
Everyone has something to contribute, even if it is not to you personally, you have no right to publically berate them because someone else might learn from them.
Spinning is not competition, it is beauty and challenging oneself to push farther. Arashi has a lovely point of view on this somewhere, I will have to hunt to find it though.
I just have read/moderated entirely too many threads in this section lately which really are hurtful and insulting.
If you want to post a move, please do, I am sure we all anxiously await anything new and innovative.
If you want to converse about the move, great, please do. I know I love a good conversation.
If you want to say how wonderful you are and how everyone else's concepts suck, please keep it to yourself.
*replacing mod cap*
[ 29. November 2002, 06:57: Message edited by: Pele ]
So, I moderate these parts and don't post in them.
*removing moderator cap for personal opinion*
Lately I am so upset/disappointed in the amount of "Who's Better" "It's All About YOUR Ego" "Look at What I Can Do" threads on this board.
First of all, if you read through the threads, there is an incredible redundancy happening, just in the moves alone, let alone the other technicalities to poi. No one can agree to disagree, it seems, on these basic realities in what we do:
1. That every move is complex, at some point in time, to each of us.
2. All moves have about 40 names. Just cause you named it something different doesn't mean it is completely new, and there is no point arguing over which name is right.
3. There are different ways/approaches to do the exact same outcome. It's individual style. That is what sets us all apart.
What hurts worse is that there is this "guise of joviality" going on. The smilies, the "Oh, I wasn't serious" bullshit is offensive.
My best example is in one thread someone innocently put up a more acrobatic approach to the butterfly to be told that move wasn't difficult, in fact, the spinning and the bodily motion were both fairly elementary. Then the insultor had the audacity to, in another post, say that he never did anything about his moves being better (but he downplayed everyone else until someone pointed it out to him), or that he didn't out right criticise anyone. I took offense over this, I can only imagine what the person who posted that move felt like, or even others involved in the thread.
I don't in post here normally because there is way too much of "Oh, I learned that when I was, like, 3. Get a new move." which is positively insulting. Malcolm also wants me to make a "Pele" video along the lines of "Sage", and this is one of the reasons why I am so reluctant to even send into COL, let alone make a video. There are ALOT of ego judgements going on here, whether or not you care to publically admit it, and it is saddening.
Everyone is good for where they are at their level, because everyone learns and moves differently.
Everyone has something to contribute, even if it is not to you personally, you have no right to publically berate them because someone else might learn from them.
Spinning is not competition, it is beauty and challenging oneself to push farther. Arashi has a lovely point of view on this somewhere, I will have to hunt to find it though.
I just have read/moderated entirely too many threads in this section lately which really are hurtful and insulting.
If you want to post a move, please do, I am sure we all anxiously await anything new and innovative.
If you want to converse about the move, great, please do. I know I love a good conversation.
If you want to say how wonderful you are and how everyone else's concepts suck, please keep it to yourself.
*replacing mod cap*
[ 29. November 2002, 06:57: Message edited by: Pele ]
Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK
BRONZE Member
Lambretta Fanatic
4,997 posts
Location: United Kingdom
Lambretta Fanatic
4,997 posts
Location: United Kingdom
Posted:
you speak on many of our behalf's there pele, so many good points.
you speak on many of our behalf's there pele, so many good points.
BRONZE Member
HOP librarian
1,841 posts
Location: Prague, Czech. Republic
HOP librarian
1,841 posts
Location: Prague, Czech. Republic
Posted:
I agree with you.I avow oneself,I do a lot of mistakes since visiting HOP.
I agree with you.I avow oneself,I do a lot of mistakes since visiting HOP.
POI THEO(R)IST
BRONZE Member
Lambretta Fanatic
4,997 posts
Location: United Kingdom
Lambretta Fanatic
4,997 posts
Location: United Kingdom
Posted:
Richee you havnt made any mistakes.
others have they dont read your posts, its not really your fault that you dont speak/type very good english. i can see where your coming from.. i have hope for you yet.
Richee you havnt made any mistakes.
others have they dont read your posts, its not really your fault that you dont speak/type very good english. i can see where your coming from.. i have hope for you yet.
SILVER Member
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
Posted:
although i agree with almost everything you have said, i feel this needs a little clarification:
your percieved 'guise of joviality' is surely a reflection of how you interpreted what you read, not what was actually written?
the only other disagreement i had was the line 'The smilies, the "Oh, I wasn't serious" bullshit is offensive'. please remember the smilies are all we have to give an impression of the mood in which we are when we post. they aren't bullshit they are the only things we have to use to enable us to type like we talk and not be misunderstood.
without them we would all have to be able to write to a professional level if we were ever to avoid misinterpretations of irony or satire.
they aren't offensive. when we use them we really do mean to express what they show
[ 30. November 2002, 01:25: Message edited by: coleman ]
although i agree with almost everything you have said, i feel this needs a little clarification:
quote:
Originally posted by Pele:
My best example is in one thread someone innocently put up a more acrobatic approach to the butterfly to be told that move wasn't difficult.
quote:
Originally posted by Sailor25:
Another move ready for inclusion into the Jedi Set, Mr Glass you must make the final decision?
quote:it wasn't quite ignored or dealt with in quite the way you see it i think Pele.
Originally posted by Glass:
Sailor 25. NOPE. the council felt that despite this sounding to be a very impressive move, and that they would be interested to see such a novel phenomenon.
But holy divination showed it to be not of the jedi.
your percieved 'guise of joviality' is surely a reflection of how you interpreted what you read, not what was actually written?
the only other disagreement i had was the line 'The smilies, the "Oh, I wasn't serious" bullshit is offensive'. please remember the smilies are all we have to give an impression of the mood in which we are when we post. they aren't bullshit they are the only things we have to use to enable us to type like we talk and not be misunderstood.
without them we would all have to be able to write to a professional level if we were ever to avoid misinterpretations of irony or satire.
they aren't offensive. when we use them we really do mean to express what they show
[ 30. November 2002, 01:25: Message edited by: coleman ]
"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood
GOLD Member
Stream Entrant
2,829 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Stream Entrant
2,829 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posted:
Pele, I think U have some good general points. But, if you are referring to the jedi set and associated threads, then I don’t think ya got the whole story.
True, there has been a bit of squabbling lately, but on reflection I think its been about misunderstandings, more than anything. A situation created by people not reading threads properly before they jump in and post, people not getting the obvious humour in a post (difficult on board), and people not being able to read body language on the board etc, etc, etc.
The people here are fantastic, as you know, but sometimes a simple misunderstanding can lead to frustration, and things “ blow up”. Afterwards, when the air clears and peace returns you often find a better place. Its also part of growing.
A point that you don’t make, and one that really highlights the quality of people using this section, is the great self-moderation, that has occurred lately. That’s not a dig or anything, either. But, big kudos to everyone involved there
Pele you say:
It seems that one person packed up their poi and left, but IMHO that was their problem, and was not caused by people here. Perhaps they had other issues?
I think everyone has learnt heaps lately, and they are not all poi related. One other thing that I’ve noticed is that this is a live Media, and things that are in context one day, may not necessarily be in context the next.
I have posted this in good faith.
Let PEACE rein for another 100,000 posts
Pele, I think U have some good general points. But, if you are referring to the jedi set and associated threads, then I don’t think ya got the whole story.
True, there has been a bit of squabbling lately, but on reflection I think its been about misunderstandings, more than anything. A situation created by people not reading threads properly before they jump in and post, people not getting the obvious humour in a post (difficult on board), and people not being able to read body language on the board etc, etc, etc.
The people here are fantastic, as you know, but sometimes a simple misunderstanding can lead to frustration, and things “ blow up”. Afterwards, when the air clears and peace returns you often find a better place. Its also part of growing.
A point that you don’t make, and one that really highlights the quality of people using this section, is the great self-moderation, that has occurred lately. That’s not a dig or anything, either. But, big kudos to everyone involved there
Pele you say:
quote:Not sure where you got that one from, and it seems out of context. It in the example I remember, the thread was about spinning and not acro. And perhaps that was the point. The point being people should read threads before they jump in and reply, “off topic” as it were.
My best example is in one thread someone innocently put up a more acrobatic approach to the butterfly to be told that move wasn't difficult, in fact, the spinning and the bodily motion were both fairly elementary.
quote:That’s a good point, but I haven’t seen anyone criticised over their spinning lately. And I don’t think it’s been about ego either. IMHO it’s more about acceptance.
….. you have no right to publicly berate them because someone else might learn from them…..
It seems that one person packed up their poi and left, but IMHO that was their problem, and was not caused by people here. Perhaps they had other issues?
I think everyone has learnt heaps lately, and they are not all poi related. One other thing that I’ve noticed is that this is a live Media, and things that are in context one day, may not necessarily be in context the next.
I have posted this in good faith.
Let PEACE rein for another 100,000 posts
If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh
DIAMOND Member
The Ministry of Manipulation
2,523 posts
Location: Bristol, United Kingdom
The Ministry of Manipulation
2,523 posts
Location: Bristol, United Kingdom
Posted:
Stone (I still cant count) I like your suggestion that its not about ego its about misinterpretation, thats really got me thinking, i think its a much better explaination.
Agrees with coleman, Smilies to add emotion to otherwise plain black and white text.
smilies add
Pele,
As the only person mentioned in your post above, (even without naming, that much is obvious), this makes a lot of what you are posting above seem to be a personal attack on me (and others unidentified), rather than a helpful contribution to the debate. Your example of:
“What hurts worse is that there is this "guise of joviality" going on. The smilies, the "Oh, I wasn't serious" bullshit is offensive.”
See now unsurprisingly I don’t see it the same as you, I was asked by sailor25:
“Another move ready for inclusion into the Jedi Set, Mr Glass you must make the final decision?
[ followed by description of a kinda groovy butterfly wrap kick up signature move]”
This was the first post which Jez was later referring to as “people were posting asking for acceptance if their move was Jedi” which he didn’t like about the thread. Neither did I. I’d built the thread originally as a discussion of a few particular very technical moves, and wrapped it up in a funny story to make it more readable.
I put a lot of time into writing that and other technical threads, not as some ego trip, but because I felt that the technical section in poi and staff had stagnated, and that there were a lot of spinners who I know have a lot to offer in terms of moves to make HOP a useful resource, more than a social chat. Nor did I or do I claim that any of the moves in that thread are “mine”. Nor do I claim to be “a jedi” (its just some film bullshit in the thread for entertainment) nor I think does anyone else. So if your digging out people philosophies of poi, go find mine, its pretty simple, and its in a lot of threads, its probably very similar to arashi’s. none of what I post has a guise of joviality as you claim, Its bloody obvious when I’m offended, and other than that its obvious that that other 95% of my post have genuine joviality.
For me, none of the jedi set are anywhere near as difficult as dancing, and dancing smoothly with poi which is what I really admire, and find sooooo difficult that’s why I put my effort into understanding poi theory/developing moves and teaching them others who can dance and swing with far better style than I. Which is really the original reason for starting the thread.
So I was asked specifically to make a judgement on this move, which is effectively the question as I understand it that sailor25 meant “do I think that it is harder than 5bt to rev 5bt weave BTB in wall plane?” Well some moves are harder than others. So I made a call, I (oops I mean the council made a call ) I think it would be damn impressive move, I would never swing it, not my style, but damn impressive, and I would still like to see it done.
To save yall looking it up, my reply was
“Err sorry its been so long, I had to visit the urologist of the eighteenth council of poi demi-gods……
Sailor 25. Nope. the council felt that despite this sounding to be a very impressive move, and that they would be interested to see such a novel phenomenon… holy divination showed it to be not of the jedi. The spinning is basic and on the grand scale of things the acrobatics is fairly basic to…”
why is this good natured post in what was then a good natured thread an insult?
I do not claim that everything I post is perfect, and don't get it right all the time, just like my spinning, I fuck it up all over the place, ( I'm wrong more than half the time, hell if i could be right even 51% of the time I wouldn't be here, I would be in a betting shop, good enough odds to make me a millionaire) and if its helpfully, and sensitively presented I love to have the advice that tells me how to put it right or where I have gone wrong. You’re discussing a post which has been on this board for 4 weeks, if you have an objection to anything I post in future then please either PM me or say so in the thread at the time.
pele, I am not impressed with you’re post, I don’t think it is helpful to the discussion. I think that if you post here not as a moderator then you are posting because you have chosen to judge other people here including me and everyone who was involve in the mud slinging in the Jedi thread.
Quote: “Everyone has something to contribute, even if it is not to you personally, you have no right to publicly berate them because someone else might learn from them.” As my granny would say that’ll be Pot calling the kettle black.
I completely agree with the sentiment of your post, which is “Please could everyone post and discuss moves in a friendly open and respectful manner.” But, I don’t agree with your judgement or execution.
This is a pity, because I had a lot of respect for a lot of what you have done on HOP, hell you even made my favourite post ever which is the Thoughts on life thread that I bumped yesterday.
So please reconsider, your view.
Either way I’ve decided to clear out of HOP for a while, I’m going off to hang out and spin with Sith .
Glass
_____________________________________
Happy Beginner
Stone (I still cant count) I like your suggestion that its not about ego its about misinterpretation, thats really got me thinking, i think its a much better explaination.
Agrees with coleman, Smilies to add emotion to otherwise plain black and white text.
smilies add
Pele,
As the only person mentioned in your post above, (even without naming, that much is obvious), this makes a lot of what you are posting above seem to be a personal attack on me (and others unidentified), rather than a helpful contribution to the debate. Your example of:
“What hurts worse is that there is this "guise of joviality" going on. The smilies, the "Oh, I wasn't serious" bullshit is offensive.”
See now unsurprisingly I don’t see it the same as you, I was asked by sailor25:
“Another move ready for inclusion into the Jedi Set, Mr Glass you must make the final decision?
[ followed by description of a kinda groovy butterfly wrap kick up signature move]”
This was the first post which Jez was later referring to as “people were posting asking for acceptance if their move was Jedi” which he didn’t like about the thread. Neither did I. I’d built the thread originally as a discussion of a few particular very technical moves, and wrapped it up in a funny story to make it more readable.
I put a lot of time into writing that and other technical threads, not as some ego trip, but because I felt that the technical section in poi and staff had stagnated, and that there were a lot of spinners who I know have a lot to offer in terms of moves to make HOP a useful resource, more than a social chat. Nor did I or do I claim that any of the moves in that thread are “mine”. Nor do I claim to be “a jedi” (its just some film bullshit in the thread for entertainment) nor I think does anyone else. So if your digging out people philosophies of poi, go find mine, its pretty simple, and its in a lot of threads, its probably very similar to arashi’s. none of what I post has a guise of joviality as you claim, Its bloody obvious when I’m offended, and other than that its obvious that that other 95% of my post have genuine joviality.
For me, none of the jedi set are anywhere near as difficult as dancing, and dancing smoothly with poi which is what I really admire, and find sooooo difficult that’s why I put my effort into understanding poi theory/developing moves and teaching them others who can dance and swing with far better style than I. Which is really the original reason for starting the thread.
So I was asked specifically to make a judgement on this move, which is effectively the question as I understand it that sailor25 meant “do I think that it is harder than 5bt to rev 5bt weave BTB in wall plane?” Well some moves are harder than others. So I made a call, I (oops I mean the council made a call ) I think it would be damn impressive move, I would never swing it, not my style, but damn impressive, and I would still like to see it done.
To save yall looking it up, my reply was
“Err sorry its been so long, I had to visit the urologist of the eighteenth council of poi demi-gods……
Sailor 25. Nope. the council felt that despite this sounding to be a very impressive move, and that they would be interested to see such a novel phenomenon… holy divination showed it to be not of the jedi. The spinning is basic and on the grand scale of things the acrobatics is fairly basic to…”
why is this good natured post in what was then a good natured thread an insult?
I do not claim that everything I post is perfect, and don't get it right all the time, just like my spinning, I fuck it up all over the place, ( I'm wrong more than half the time, hell if i could be right even 51% of the time I wouldn't be here, I would be in a betting shop, good enough odds to make me a millionaire) and if its helpfully, and sensitively presented I love to have the advice that tells me how to put it right or where I have gone wrong. You’re discussing a post which has been on this board for 4 weeks, if you have an objection to anything I post in future then please either PM me or say so in the thread at the time.
pele, I am not impressed with you’re post, I don’t think it is helpful to the discussion. I think that if you post here not as a moderator then you are posting because you have chosen to judge other people here including me and everyone who was involve in the mud slinging in the Jedi thread.
Quote: “Everyone has something to contribute, even if it is not to you personally, you have no right to publicly berate them because someone else might learn from them.” As my granny would say that’ll be Pot calling the kettle black.
I completely agree with the sentiment of your post, which is “Please could everyone post and discuss moves in a friendly open and respectful manner.” But, I don’t agree with your judgement or execution.
This is a pity, because I had a lot of respect for a lot of what you have done on HOP, hell you even made my favourite post ever which is the Thoughts on life thread that I bumped yesterday.
So please reconsider, your view.
Either way I’ve decided to clear out of HOP for a while, I’m going off to hang out and spin with Sith .
Glass
_____________________________________
Happy Beginner
BRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,009 posts
Location: Bristol, UK
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,009 posts
Location: Bristol, UK
Posted:
God, it's all gone a little mad round here!
It's been said before, and I'll say it again, I think the ego thing is often a perception. If everyone starts with the assumption that all move posts are posted in good nature and in a show-and-tell style as opposed to a show-off style then we'll all be better people and play nicer.
At the moment it seems to be the opposite and people assume it's all about ego. Ask yourself why that is. Really explore that. Is it because that's what you would do? If so then really think hard why! Is it because that's your experience of some spinners you've met? Then remember that what you've just done is prejudice and has no place in anywhere.
Even if a thread is perceived as ego show-off is there any value in taunting the poster or insulting them? No, it's a waste of everybody's time. Showing aggression will limit you in every way, from your spirit to your poi. There is no value in it, so why put so much energy into attacking somebody when you can use it to educate instead so everyone benefits.
So, always reply as if it isn't an ego post, but a good discussion about a move. If it was an ego post then it'll probably turn around with your good thoughts added to it and the poster and everyone else will benefit. And if it's not an ego thread then it'll become a good thread.
Good night.
God, it's all gone a little mad round here!
It's been said before, and I'll say it again, I think the ego thing is often a perception. If everyone starts with the assumption that all move posts are posted in good nature and in a show-and-tell style as opposed to a show-off style then we'll all be better people and play nicer.
At the moment it seems to be the opposite and people assume it's all about ego. Ask yourself why that is. Really explore that. Is it because that's what you would do? If so then really think hard why! Is it because that's your experience of some spinners you've met? Then remember that what you've just done is prejudice and has no place in anywhere.
Even if a thread is perceived as ego show-off is there any value in taunting the poster or insulting them? No, it's a waste of everybody's time. Showing aggression will limit you in every way, from your spirit to your poi. There is no value in it, so why put so much energy into attacking somebody when you can use it to educate instead so everyone benefits.
So, always reply as if it isn't an ego post, but a good discussion about a move. If it was an ego post then it'll probably turn around with your good thoughts added to it and the poster and everyone else will benefit. And if it's not an ego thread then it'll become a good thread.
Good night.
enthusiast
309 posts
Location: Tampa, Fl
309 posts
Location: Tampa, Fl
Posted:
i dont know how relevant this may be to anyone hear, but there is a quote that has stuck with me for a long time.
'you teach people how to treat you'
also
'if you dont expect anything, you cant be disappointed'
of course, the latter is next to impossible to live by- that is, living without expectations.
but the first one, especially in a forum such as HOP and this part of the message board... hmmm. cheers dom about not approaching ego with ego. how about this one?
'always remain teachable?'
sorry, just rambling thoughts right now from going over all of your posts. best wishes and cheer to all. we have a mighty small firedancing world out there. if a battle were necessary, maybe it would be better suited against corrupt politicians/government bodies, instead of awesome artists?
'night everyone
i dont know how relevant this may be to anyone hear, but there is a quote that has stuck with me for a long time.
'you teach people how to treat you'
also
'if you dont expect anything, you cant be disappointed'
of course, the latter is next to impossible to live by- that is, living without expectations.
but the first one, especially in a forum such as HOP and this part of the message board... hmmm. cheers dom about not approaching ego with ego. how about this one?
'always remain teachable?'
sorry, just rambling thoughts right now from going over all of your posts. best wishes and cheer to all. we have a mighty small firedancing world out there. if a battle were necessary, maybe it would be better suited against corrupt politicians/government bodies, instead of awesome artists?
'night everyone
Wow
BRONZE Member
Sporadically Prodigal
2,758 posts
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Sporadically Prodigal
2,758 posts
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Posted:
*inserts a comforting, witty and diplomatic post, and congratulates everyone for continuing to be mostly very cool people*
*inserts a comforting, witty and diplomatic post, and congratulates everyone for continuing to be mostly very cool people*
HoP Posting Guidelines
Is it the Truth?
Is it Fair to all concerned?
Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
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If you can answer YES to these 4 questions then you may post a reply.
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,638 posts
Location: Brum / Dorset / Fairy Land
3,638 posts
Location: Brum / Dorset / Fairy Land
Posted:
*apologises in advance for being naieve..*
Umm...I haven't noticed these bad vibes. One or two people say how much better they are than others but you just ignore them and move on. Everyone else is just sharing nice moves, aren't they?
I don't think it's the widespread and horrific situation that it's being made out to be.
*apologises in advance for being naieve..*
Umm...I haven't noticed these bad vibes. One or two people say how much better they are than others but you just ignore them and move on. Everyone else is just sharing nice moves, aren't they?
I don't think it's the widespread and horrific situation that it's being made out to be.
Geologists do it in the dirt................ 
BRONZE Member
the henna lady
6,193 posts
Location: WNY, USA
the henna lady
6,193 posts
Location: WNY, USA
Posted:
First of all I would like to say that I didn't name the persons involved for a reason. The thread I was referring to was deleted in it's entirety (all of 3 posts to it) and the people were emailed by myself and all has been settled in that manner before I made this thread.
By assuming it was you, glass and others, then you seem to take on the responsibility of perhaps beginning something gone awry.
Having now read it (as I hadn't before) I don't like the Jedi Set thread, at all. I think it is not nearly so funny as people seem to think it was intended.
This thread is in response to **several** of these incedents I have dealt with, and it gets tiring. My thoughts are if you don't put the implication out there, then these misunderstandings won't happen. If there is some sort of inside joke that only your group will understand (ie: the Jedi thing), then perhaps don't you think there will be those who do not take it as a joke? AND, now that I have read through that thread, which I hadn't before, it does bear a remarkable resemblence to some of the other threads with this problem, including some of the same key players. glass, your posts weren't clearly marked as a joke at all. It is amazing how far a "j/k" will go. Mark them as such from the beginning and you won't find yourself needing to defend them in the future.
If you haven't gotten an email or pm for me, then why are you so eager to defend yourself against an assumed attack?
I am also very disappointed at the callousedness with which losing a member (actually 3 all together, two others were newbies who felt put off by the Jedi thread) of this board has been treated. To say that it is his/their loss displays a complete lack of respect. It is OUR loss.
As far as Sith is concerned, I do not think Sith came into this board with the greatest of attitudes, but neither did many of the people who are on here now, and through kindness and respect they were turned around in time. Not many, as far as I see it, gave this man that chance. He was either flamed against or ignored. This goes way beyond the fact that he is Maori and has been spinning for over 10 years and we all could've learned alot from him, but he deserved a respect as a poster that I feel was never shown.
With 3000+ members this board has it's cliques, understandably, which can be very difficult for a newbie to feel comfortable in. Not everyone knows the ettiquette, and jokes carried over from rl onto the board don't seem so funny in the scope of hurting peoples feelings, and several of these "joking" threads do. For sake of anonymity and respect, I'll not post the emails I have received about them.
Now finally, please stop sending me the personal messages and emails claiming that I don't get the point, and that I assume too much. I do get the point, don't insult my intelligence please, I just don't agree with hurting people's feelings for the sake of a not so wide spread, in some ways obviously hurtful jokes and critiques.
In fact, this is the perfect example of the misunderstandings in this medium of communication, since many of you read and assumed much into my original post that simply was not written there.
Still love and hugs,
First of all I would like to say that I didn't name the persons involved for a reason. The thread I was referring to was deleted in it's entirety (all of 3 posts to it) and the people were emailed by myself and all has been settled in that manner before I made this thread.
By assuming it was you, glass and others, then you seem to take on the responsibility of perhaps beginning something gone awry.
Having now read it (as I hadn't before) I don't like the Jedi Set thread, at all. I think it is not nearly so funny as people seem to think it was intended.
This thread is in response to **several** of these incedents I have dealt with, and it gets tiring. My thoughts are if you don't put the implication out there, then these misunderstandings won't happen. If there is some sort of inside joke that only your group will understand (ie: the Jedi thing), then perhaps don't you think there will be those who do not take it as a joke? AND, now that I have read through that thread, which I hadn't before, it does bear a remarkable resemblence to some of the other threads with this problem, including some of the same key players. glass, your posts weren't clearly marked as a joke at all. It is amazing how far a "j/k" will go. Mark them as such from the beginning and you won't find yourself needing to defend them in the future.
If you haven't gotten an email or pm for me, then why are you so eager to defend yourself against an assumed attack?
I am also very disappointed at the callousedness with which losing a member (actually 3 all together, two others were newbies who felt put off by the Jedi thread) of this board has been treated. To say that it is his/their loss displays a complete lack of respect. It is OUR loss.
As far as Sith is concerned, I do not think Sith came into this board with the greatest of attitudes, but neither did many of the people who are on here now, and through kindness and respect they were turned around in time. Not many, as far as I see it, gave this man that chance. He was either flamed against or ignored. This goes way beyond the fact that he is Maori and has been spinning for over 10 years and we all could've learned alot from him, but he deserved a respect as a poster that I feel was never shown.
With 3000+ members this board has it's cliques, understandably, which can be very difficult for a newbie to feel comfortable in. Not everyone knows the ettiquette, and jokes carried over from rl onto the board don't seem so funny in the scope of hurting peoples feelings, and several of these "joking" threads do. For sake of anonymity and respect, I'll not post the emails I have received about them.
Now finally, please stop sending me the personal messages and emails claiming that I don't get the point, and that I assume too much. I do get the point, don't insult my intelligence please, I just don't agree with hurting people's feelings for the sake of a not so wide spread, in some ways obviously hurtful jokes and critiques.
In fact, this is the perfect example of the misunderstandings in this medium of communication, since many of you read and assumed much into my original post that simply was not written there.
Still love and hugs,
Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK
BRONZE Member
Lambretta Fanatic
4,997 posts
Location: United Kingdom
Lambretta Fanatic
4,997 posts
Location: United Kingdom
Posted:
Pele this is not to cause another rukus but i'd like to say this atleast.
But as you said he's been spinning for 10 years and he is a maori doesnt mean he deserves respect... god i'm from britain i demand your respect cos being british i am better than all of you and i've been spinning for over a year.
Thats a bad thing to write, i sugest maybe editing your post pele, this is another blatant missunderstanding that everyone could pick up on.
[Welcome to the world wide web, with out seeing my face and my lips moving as i speak or the tone of my voice you may take this the WRONG way! but this is all text and can be interpreted in many different ways.]
hugs
Pele this is not to cause another rukus but i'd like to say this atleast.
quote:Why should we have given him a chance if even you said he was here with the wrong intentions. yeah i agree he atleast made one decent thread.
Originally posted by Pele:
As far as Sith is concerned, I do not think Sith came into this board with the greatest of attitudes,
Then he should have been put in his place from the start! We did this in our own way being as there wasnt a mod in sight, maybe we should have brought it to some ones attention but thats not the point. he was an ass.
Not many, as far as I see it, gave this man that chance. He was either flamed against or ignored. This goes way beyond the fact that he is Maori and has been spinning for over 10 years and we all could've learned alot from him, but he deserved a respect as a poster that I feel was never shown.
But as you said he's been spinning for 10 years and he is a maori doesnt mean he deserves respect... god i'm from britain i demand your respect cos being british i am better than all of you and i've been spinning for over a year.
Thats a bad thing to write, i sugest maybe editing your post pele, this is another blatant missunderstanding that everyone could pick up on.
[Welcome to the world wide web, with out seeing my face and my lips moving as i speak or the tone of my voice you may take this the WRONG way! but this is all text and can be interpreted in many different ways.]
hugs
Pooh-Bah
2,364 posts
Location: austin,tx
2,364 posts
Location: austin,tx
Posted:
well no matter what happens this dialogue is good.
after watching all of it happen, i am convinced that we all mean well. and maybe, probably not , but maybe, there are some inflated egos here and there, and maybe talking like this will help those people recognise(re-cognise) those self destructive feelings in their brain when they happen, and be more able to step back and allow the feelings to wash over and through them. the rest of us will just be more able to understand each other. nobody's perfect. geez i sound like a high school counselor. actually let's just bash each other with pillows for a while-
***throws down pillows at everyone, yes, 3000 down pillows, and starts bashing everybody in the head, esp. the cute ladies (fake cassanove smile, points finger and snaps, then continues mad bashing frenzy)***
well no matter what happens this dialogue is good.
after watching all of it happen, i am convinced that we all mean well. and maybe, probably not , but maybe, there are some inflated egos here and there, and maybe talking like this will help those people recognise(re-cognise) those self destructive feelings in their brain when they happen, and be more able to step back and allow the feelings to wash over and through them. the rest of us will just be more able to understand each other. nobody's perfect. geez i sound like a high school counselor. actually let's just bash each other with pillows for a while-
***throws down pillows at everyone, yes, 3000 down pillows, and starts bashing everybody in the head, esp. the cute ladies (fake cassanove smile, points finger and snaps, then continues mad bashing frenzy)***
-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.
BRONZE Member
Sporadically Prodigal
2,758 posts
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Sporadically Prodigal
2,758 posts
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Posted:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by PK:
Pele this is not to cause another rukus but i'd like to say this atleast.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Pele:
[qb]As far as Sith is concerned, I do not think Sith came into this board with the greatest of attitudes,
Then he should have been put in his place from the start! We did this in our own way being as there wasnt a mod in sight, maybe we should have brought it to some ones attention but thats not the point. he was an ass.
PK - we were around and actually discussed the nature of his intro thread as soon as it was posted. We gave him the benefit of the doubt after noting that he wasn't just a troll and that he actually had something of value to share with our community.
School yard antics, that's all I can say. Why is it that some people always feel the need to take the role as Justice of the Peace, Defender of all that is good etc.... I'd like to see more respect and tolerance. But generally, like I said before, you guys are all fantastic and this is by far the friendliest UBB I've had the honour of partaking in. let's keep it that way
love n light, in the most official sense!
flash
[QUOTE]Originally posted by PK:
Pele this is not to cause another rukus but i'd like to say this atleast.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Pele:
[qb]As far as Sith is concerned, I do not think Sith came into this board with the greatest of attitudes,
Then he should have been put in his place from the start! We did this in our own way being as there wasnt a mod in sight, maybe we should have brought it to some ones attention but thats not the point. he was an ass.
PK - we were around and actually discussed the nature of his intro thread as soon as it was posted. We gave him the benefit of the doubt after noting that he wasn't just a troll and that he actually had something of value to share with our community.
School yard antics, that's all I can say. Why is it that some people always feel the need to take the role as Justice of the Peace, Defender of all that is good etc.... I'd like to see more respect and tolerance. But generally, like I said before, you guys are all fantastic and this is by far the friendliest UBB I've had the honour of partaking in. let's keep it that way
love n light, in the most official sense!
flash
HoP Posting Guidelines
Is it the Truth?
Is it Fair to all concerned?
Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?
If you can answer YES to these 4 questions then you may post a reply.
BRONZE Member
Lambretta Fanatic
4,997 posts
Location: United Kingdom
Lambretta Fanatic
4,997 posts
Location: United Kingdom
Posted:
considdering that this was all over and done with two weeks ago, i dont see why it was brought back up again. just a thought.
[ 04. December 2002, 17:33: Message edited by: PK ]
considdering that this was all over and done with two weeks ago, i dont see why it was brought back up again. just a thought.
quote:the home of poi bootcamp! J/K i think there couldnt be any more respect between most of us here, al families have arguments now and again dont they?
I'd like to see more respect and tolerance
[ 04. December 2002, 17:33: Message edited by: PK ]
Pooh-Bah
2,364 posts
Location: austin,tx
2,364 posts
Location: austin,tx
Posted:
actually i am not just strutting in here and acting like a holy roller justice of the peace. i am directly involved in that i held the same opinion as pele and got into a lot of discussion with folks about said opinion. and what i said is what i feel. is that okay?
actually i am not just strutting in here and acting like a holy roller justice of the peace. i am directly involved in that i held the same opinion as pele and got into a lot of discussion with folks about said opinion. and what i said is what i feel. is that okay?
-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.
GOLD Member
Stream Entrant
2,829 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Stream Entrant
2,829 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posted:
Pele, from wot you say you were not here at the time, and I think that’s the main problem with you assumptions. You were not here.
This media is dynamic, and it would be difficult to recreate the situations as it was. Hitokage’s Sith Set - The Dark Side is an example of the general good humour at the time. No doubt you will disagree with that.
I was not intending to make any further comments on this topic, but some of your observations and assumptions are plainly incorrect.
This quote is out of sequence, but it needs saying.
Please stop rubbing salt into fresh wounds.
Its time to move on
Pele, from wot you say you were not here at the time, and I think that’s the main problem with you assumptions. You were not here.
This media is dynamic, and it would be difficult to recreate the situations as it was. Hitokage’s Sith Set - The Dark Side is an example of the general good humour at the time. No doubt you will disagree with that.
I was not intending to make any further comments on this topic, but some of your observations and assumptions are plainly incorrect.
quote:That’s rubbish Pele, and is definitely not true. He was treated with much respect.
Not many, as far as I see it, gave this man that chance
quote:Yes, it does take time to get used to HOP; it’s a big site. I was here for 3 months before I made a post. Taking the time to lean, is good etiquette. And, I don’t think there was any maliciousness. Another part of good etiquette is actually reading the thread, before jumping in. Perhaps a lesson there?
With 3000+ members this board has it's cliques, understandably, which can be very difficult for a newbie to feel comfortable in. Not everyone knows the ettiquette, and jokes carried over from rl onto the board don't seem so funny in the scope of hurting peoples feelings, and several of these "joking" threads do.
quote:Like I said at the start, if you were here at the time you would have realised wot was happening. That you failed to be specific created the misunderstanding.
In fact, this is the perfect example of the misunderstandings in this medium of communication, since many of you read and assumed much into my original post that simply was not written there.
This quote is out of sequence, but it needs saying.
quote:That’s fine, but besides the point. Many like it. It is courageous an innovative. Inspired for many of the same reasons that Charles started the “staff naming” thread.
Having now read it (as I hadn't before) I don't like the Jedi Set thread
Please stop rubbing salt into fresh wounds.
Its time to move on
If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh
BRONZE Member
Lambretta Fanatic
4,997 posts
Location: United Kingdom
Lambretta Fanatic
4,997 posts
Location: United Kingdom
Posted:
no further comment.
no further comment.
BRONZE Member
Lambretta Fanatic
4,997 posts
Location: United Kingdom
Lambretta Fanatic
4,997 posts
Location: United Kingdom
Posted:
actually one question:
was the thread read before or after we all went through each and every one of our posts and either changed whats was there or deleted the post?.... just wondering!
actually one question:
was the thread read before or after we all went through each and every one of our posts and either changed whats was there or deleted the post?.... just wondering!
BRONZE Member
Sporadically Prodigal
2,758 posts
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Sporadically Prodigal
2,758 posts
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Posted:
Jeebus! I think I'm just gonna stay off the board for the rest of the week. I just keep upsetting/offending/attacking people without even knowing about it.
Arashi - that particular comment was not directed at you personally, so please don't feel the need to defend yourself. That comment was a VERY general one resulting in my observations of forums everywhere.
If I ever intend to direct anything at anyone personally, I like to think that you guys have enough faith in my character to know that I would not do it on a public forum. As Pele, C@ntus and Charles can attest, being a moderator is really tough, especially considering we are all intelligent individuals with passionate views on many things. Diplomacy ain't easy.
Anyway.
Jeebus! I think I'm just gonna stay off the board for the rest of the week. I just keep upsetting/offending/attacking people without even knowing about it.
Arashi - that particular comment was not directed at you personally, so please don't feel the need to defend yourself. That comment was a VERY general one resulting in my observations of forums everywhere.
If I ever intend to direct anything at anyone personally, I like to think that you guys have enough faith in my character to know that I would not do it on a public forum. As Pele, C@ntus and Charles can attest, being a moderator is really tough, especially considering we are all intelligent individuals with passionate views on many things. Diplomacy ain't easy.
Anyway.
HoP Posting Guidelines
Is it the Truth?
Is it Fair to all concerned?
Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?
If you can answer YES to these 4 questions then you may post a reply.
Pooh-Bah
2,364 posts
Location: austin,tx
2,364 posts
Location: austin,tx
Posted:
oh i wasn't offended. i was really just trying to point out that i used to feel the same way as pele but now i don't. i guess i could've put a smiley to be more specific, like so...
***continues bashing flash fire with pillow wearing a wicked grin***
oh i wasn't offended. i was really just trying to point out that i used to feel the same way as pele but now i don't. i guess i could've put a smiley to be more specific, like so...
***continues bashing flash fire with pillow wearing a wicked grin***
-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.
BRONZE Member
the henna lady
6,193 posts
Location: WNY, USA
the henna lady
6,193 posts
Location: WNY, USA
Posted:
"Another part of good etiquette is actually reading the thread, before jumping in. Perhaps a lesson there?"
Stone, do not insult me. I did read the threads I was talking about long before I posted this. In fact, I thought long and hard about what I wanted to say, if anything at all. I did not make assumptions. I have been here. I was commenting on several different threads, the assumptions came from those of you who thought I was speaking of glass specifically, when I was not. In this case, I think you need to heed your own words. I kept the anonymity for a reason, and I stand by it. You are reading far more into my post than what is there.
I can assure you, collectively, we read every single post on this board, and discuss several of them off the board. Do not assume because you do not see us on here, that we are not present or working.
As FF said, this ain't easy.
PK, please read my post again, I never said Sith needed to be given respect because he's Maori, I said aside from the fact that we could learn from him he deserved respect as a human and someone who wanted to be part of the community. He is not the only one who has ever came on here with guns blazing, but it seems that back when Ray originally came on, or Itsgottabe, or the countless others, there was so much more tolerance and patience. Sith was dealt with by mods, but not publically. There is a principle behind not dealing with everyone in a public manner that we tend to uphold. Just because you don't see it, doesn't mean it doesn't happen.
And I did see the way he was "handled in the absence of mods" and if people on this board had've treated me that way, I would've had many, many issues as well.
Malcolm has also voiced his opinion in a very heartfelt thread in the social section. I suggest you check it out and fully understand, I am NOT the only one who feels this strongly about this. Obviously PK this is an ongoing issue that effects alot of people, not something that was dealt with two weeks ago.
Regards,
"Another part of good etiquette is actually reading the thread, before jumping in. Perhaps a lesson there?"
Stone, do not insult me. I did read the threads I was talking about long before I posted this. In fact, I thought long and hard about what I wanted to say, if anything at all. I did not make assumptions. I have been here. I was commenting on several different threads, the assumptions came from those of you who thought I was speaking of glass specifically, when I was not. In this case, I think you need to heed your own words. I kept the anonymity for a reason, and I stand by it. You are reading far more into my post than what is there.
I can assure you, collectively, we read every single post on this board, and discuss several of them off the board. Do not assume because you do not see us on here, that we are not present or working.
As FF said, this ain't easy.
PK, please read my post again, I never said Sith needed to be given respect because he's Maori, I said aside from the fact that we could learn from him he deserved respect as a human and someone who wanted to be part of the community. He is not the only one who has ever came on here with guns blazing, but it seems that back when Ray originally came on, or Itsgottabe, or the countless others, there was so much more tolerance and patience. Sith was dealt with by mods, but not publically. There is a principle behind not dealing with everyone in a public manner that we tend to uphold. Just because you don't see it, doesn't mean it doesn't happen.
And I did see the way he was "handled in the absence of mods" and if people on this board had've treated me that way, I would've had many, many issues as well.
Malcolm has also voiced his opinion in a very heartfelt thread in the social section. I suggest you check it out and fully understand, I am NOT the only one who feels this strongly about this. Obviously PK this is an ongoing issue that effects alot of people, not something that was dealt with two weeks ago.
Regards,
Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK
SILVER Member
Classic 90's Fire Dancer... Poi, Staff, Doubles, and Breathing
743 posts
Location: South Lake Tahoe, USA
Classic 90's Fire Dancer... Poi, Staff, Doubles, and Breathing
743 posts
Location: South Lake Tahoe, USA
Posted:
Pele,
It's been a long time!
I agree with you that people are a bit Cocky on this sight. I Get a funny feeling every time i come to it. Its like Every one is so caught up in their ego, then say such arrogant things that i am so turned off by even comming here. I admit I get caught up in it my self sometimes.
It's Frustrating!!
A lot of people have to be better than the next person. It is easy to say that one can do ammazing things on the board, but I have to see it to belive it. I feel that most of it is just BS!
As for the Fir Vidio. Girl you don't need to proove anything. I have seen you in action in NH at the Franconia Spinn off. Although I did Fall in love with Sage in the 2nd Fire Flick. I learned a lot from her and would love to spinn with her some day.
To rap this up, I don't think every one on this sight is full of shit, but reading through some of the forums I can pick out a few that are.
I, as well as a lot of other folks Work Soo Hard at improving style and fine tuning moves that it is frusterating to see people bragg and spew about something, like it was easy, and thay had it all along. I think that is why so many Great fire folks get turned off by the sight, and rarely visit it.
I think the HOP sight is a great thing, meeting other fire folks is benificial to everyone. I have met many great friends here, and learned from them. THERE IS ALWAYS MORE TO LEARN! No one has perfected the art of fire spinning.
Thank you Pele for bringing this issue up.
Yours Truly,
~FireSpirit
Pele,
It's been a long time!
I agree with you that people are a bit Cocky on this sight. I Get a funny feeling every time i come to it. Its like Every one is so caught up in their ego, then say such arrogant things that i am so turned off by even comming here. I admit I get caught up in it my self sometimes.
It's Frustrating!!
A lot of people have to be better than the next person. It is easy to say that one can do ammazing things on the board, but I have to see it to belive it. I feel that most of it is just BS!
As for the Fir Vidio. Girl you don't need to proove anything. I have seen you in action in NH at the Franconia Spinn off. Although I did Fall in love with Sage in the 2nd Fire Flick. I learned a lot from her and would love to spinn with her some day.
To rap this up, I don't think every one on this sight is full of shit, but reading through some of the forums I can pick out a few that are.
I, as well as a lot of other folks Work Soo Hard at improving style and fine tuning moves that it is frusterating to see people bragg and spew about something, like it was easy, and thay had it all along. I think that is why so many Great fire folks get turned off by the sight, and rarely visit it.
I think the HOP sight is a great thing, meeting other fire folks is benificial to everyone. I have met many great friends here, and learned from them. THERE IS ALWAYS MORE TO LEARN! No one has perfected the art of fire spinning.
Thank you Pele for bringing this issue up.
Yours Truly,
~FireSpirit
FIRE IS ALIVE!
IT LIVES AND BREATHS!
IT CONSUMES, AND DISTROYS!
BUT WE CONTROL IT,
AND DANCE WITH FIRE!!
SILVER Member
Classic 90's Fire Dancer... Poi, Staff, Doubles, and Breathing
743 posts
Location: South Lake Tahoe, USA
Classic 90's Fire Dancer... Poi, Staff, Doubles, and Breathing
743 posts
Location: South Lake Tahoe, USA
Posted:
I guess you have forgave and forgotten.
Life is about Love , and Forgivness anyway.
I guess I'll see ya in the surf.
~FireSpirit
I guess you have forgave and forgotten.
Life is about Love , and Forgivness anyway.
I guess I'll see ya in the surf.
~FireSpirit
FIRE IS ALIVE!
IT LIVES AND BREATHS!
IT CONSUMES, AND DISTROYS!
BUT WE CONTROL IT,
AND DANCE WITH FIRE!!
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