Forums > Social Chat > Cultural differences in twirling?

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Finn
member
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Member Since: 23rd Dec 2000
Total posts: 341
Posted:Spanky's 'Challenge' thread got me thinking about the cultural differences in twirling.Most of you have probably read his threadhttp://www.homeofpoi.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/001134.htmlWow!I've never come across this kind of stuff in Australia.... battles, 'showing people up'! Weird! Is this a 'raver' thing? Serious question! If it is, it's quite contrary to the ethos of P.L.U.R on which rave culture is based.The arrogance and aggression demonstrated by a few people throughout this thread is really difficult for me to understand.Here in Sydney we enjoy hanging out with fellow twirlers. We share tricks and swap tips.We seek out each others company in order to be with like minded people who understand where we're coming from. It's collaborative, not competitive.I'm sure that this is not something unique to Sydney, or Australia for that matter. The firedancing community in San Francisco sounds pretty similar.The English twirlers I've met seem to be on a pretty similar wavelength. Same with many of the Kiwis, South Africans and French twirlers I've chatted to via this board.Any ideas? I'd really like to know what you guys think.Australians don't really go in for this sort of thing. We're pretty modest about how good we are. We don't like to show other people up. We like to be the 'underdog' rather than the 'champion'. We even have something called the 'Tall Poppy Syndrome' in Australia. It came about in order to stop people from becoming big headed. It's about staying real.In my opinion, and my opinion is all it is....... The attitude demonstrated throughout Spanky's thread has begun to overwhelm this discussion board of late. This is really sad.I hope it's not a sign of things to come.Finn
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[This message has been edited by Finn (edited 09 August 2001).]


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nomad
nomad

retired
Location: Paris, France
Member Since: 15th Jan 2001
Total posts: 356
Posted:It definitely reflects a change of atmosphere in this board. Sad but true. Nomad

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alterego
alterego

Warm beer is infinitely colder than no beer
Location: Boulder, Co
Member Since: 4th Jul 2001
Total posts: 222
Posted:It's a rave thing for sure! I was very distraught when I first started twirling because everywhere I went someone was trying to show me up. I've never seen anyone else really try to show me that they are better than me.Love always,Spanky

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emptyset
member
Location: Albany, NY United States of Am...
Member Since: 24th Jan 2001
Total posts: 98
Posted:"I was sad for I had no shoes. Then I met a man who had no feet"[This message has been edited by emptyset (edited 09 August 2001).]

Its all in good, clean, light producing fun.

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adamrice
adamrice

poo-bah
Location: Austin TX USA
Member Since: 19th Dec 2000
Total posts: 1015
Posted:I dunno, Nomad. Clearly these attitudes are out there in the world--we're just getting exposed to them now. We don't need to let the fact that those ideas are being presented here on the board diminish the experience for those of us who feel differently.At risk of re-opening an old debate, this divide in attitude seems to correlate with fire vs glowstick. I have *never* met a firedancer who said (or tried to prove) anything like "I am better than that person," but nearly all the ones I've met have said "I am worse than these people." The nearest thing to an egotistical comment that I've heard is "I want to meet more people I can learn from"--and this was said by a woman who is just on a different level.As I've said before, I think the whole idea of "best" or "better" is kind of a red herring in firedancing: almost everyone can bring something unique to the table. Even if person A really is better than person B, person B's absence would still leave a hole.

Laugh while you can, monkey-boy

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emptyset
member
Location: Albany, NY United States of Am...
Member Since: 24th Jan 2001
Total posts: 98
Posted:I agree with you completly adam. but I also believed that its good for all spinnings to every once in a while stop dancing and stand in awe of someone who is better than he/she at almost everything. It shows us how much more we can learn. This has happened to me plenty of times, but i have never felt bitter, or showed up. People work hard at fire poi, glowstings, staff, liquid (need I go on), and I for one say let them and everyone show thier skill.it is...how do you say... apples and oranges ------------------"I was sad, for I had no shoes. Then I met a man who had no feet"

Its all in good, clean, light producing fun.

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Twist
member

Member Since: 4th Apr 2001
Total posts: 160
Posted:I'm not sure if its a cultural issue or a rave/glo v. fire issue... i think it might actually boil down to age. I'm not cross referencing this with the thread on how old we all are... but I think competitiveness and the need to boast decrease somewhat with age... well... perhaps the need to boast doesn't diminish... we're just more self-depracating and tactful about it.Opinions?

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adamrice
adamrice

poo-bah
Location: Austin TX USA
Member Since: 19th Dec 2000
Total posts: 1015
Posted:Twist--I was thinking age might have something to do with it, but there's a big overlap in (what I perceive as) the average age for firespinners and glowstick-spinners. So I was reluctant to make that point, but you may have something there.

Laugh while you can, monkey-boy

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Q
member
Location: about 30 min from NYC, New Yor...
Member Since: 15th Jul 2001
Total posts: 42
Posted:From what I'm seeing on the board, it's definitely a rave thing that's screwing up spinning.Currently, I've only spun glowsticks, and still being in school, that makes life a bit competitive. For example, I was supposed to be part of a whole little rave whatchamacallit act for a talent show. The guy organizing it was also a twirler, and knew about two other people, me included. For some strange reason, citing different reasons, he canceled the act without notifying members of the group, and lied about it to us by sayin' that he did. Wanting to perform, I took over and kept the thing going. Next thing I know, he comes back and wants back into it. Not wanting to cut anyone out, I let him back in. But then he sought out to make himself look better than me and another twirler by having us twirl first and having him and another raver come out of the audience and spin. And it just so happens that I get tired and lose the grip on one of my strings and it goes flyin' down in front of the first row. Aren't I the lucky one? The whole thing may have been a cool effect, but it got me thinking about the whole thing after we had finished. Didn't really realize that some people are so competitive about it.Why does stuff like this only happen in America?Sorry about being so long, but just wanted to submit my 2 cents.

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Ade
Are we there yet?
Location: australia
Member Since: 14th Mar 2001
Total posts: 1897
Posted:Good questions Finn, do you think that, in Australia, we would tend to cut down someone who bragged about their skill level(not that it's likely given our culture, but, what if...)?The thing that excites me the most about fire dancing, is the depth and range of types of manipulation. Everytime I see someone spin I am filled with joy - even when watching a beginner. I will learn something everytime.Having said that - Twist, if I catch a bloo%^dy big fish, nothing can stop me calling everyone I know and having a good old skite!

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Twist
member

Member Since: 4th Apr 2001
Total posts: 160
Posted:Yah...erm... that's why I said the urge to boast prolly doesn't go away... it's just handled better...

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Mogli
member
Location: Ottawa, Ontario
Member Since: 8th Aug 2001
Total posts: 19
Posted:I think it's just a personal thing rather than something general like age or culture or raves. Some people have a competitive nature and I guess thats why they feel the need to battle it out with others...???Just a thought.------------------Live life, don't just exist.

Live life, don't just exist.

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Finn
member
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Member Since: 23rd Dec 2000
Total posts: 341
Posted:The term culture refers to sub-cultures or groups, as much as it does nations.This is what I was getting at.The crew of firedancers I hang out with find the kind of behaviour discussed in Spanky's thread really difficult to understand. It's not something that is done in our culture. It's foreign, alien to us.It does seem to be something that is accepted with the American rave scene. I base this statement on the stuff I hear American ravers say on this discussion board. Maybe the ravers on Home Of Poi are not representative of the 'whole' scene, but their attitudes and opinions are indicative of the scene in general.As far as I can tell the American rave scene is comprised predominantly of people under the age of 22-23 who use the term P.L.U.R, but don't live it.In the end maybe it is a glow v fire thing. I don't know. I do know that in recent months the Home of Poi has been visited by a lot of American ravers, many of whom have joined the discussion board.I'm disappointed that the aggression and arrogance that is acceptable within their culture, now seems to be commonplace on this discussion board. In my opinion it's impacted significantly on the 'culture' of this board. It used to be a place where a person's skill level didn't affect their ability to participate in discussion. It used to be a place where people could speak freely without someone throwing a tantrum and calling them names. It used to be a place where the fact that you loved twirling was enough, you didn't have to be the best and you didn't feel the need to prove it.I think this is the real reason so many old Home Of Poiers no longer visit the discussion board. It doesn't really have that much to do with whether poi is a fad or not. It has more to do with the lack of respect, lack of tolerance and ego of some newer members of the Home Of Poi.Finn
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[This message has been edited by Finn (edited 09 August 2001).]


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Posted:Considering how the "US attitude" in general is forced onto these kids from birth, maybe some leeway is required... i.e. hassling, smug, belligerent people should be dealt with by ignoring them, rather than retaliating and giving the fools credibility.After all, who are we to question the "American Way"?
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By the way, no offence to nice Americans!!p_g xxx


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emptyset
member
Location: Albany, NY United States of Am...
Member Since: 24th Jan 2001
Total posts: 98
Posted:I know way to many american ravers that don't fit the description of aggression and arrogance, when it comes to spinning, to take this thread very seriously. i mean, maybe im part of this whole problem why people are making these drastic conclusions (see my thread on glowsticks:more than just an alternative), but iv been to one rave, and i hardly concider myslef a raver. And if you are a raver on ths boared, take a hint and make sure you dont fit the steriotypeagain... its is..how do you say...apples and oranges------------------"I was sad, for I had no shoes. Then I met a man who had no feet"

Its all in good, clean, light producing fun.

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dask
member
Location: BzH-=-France
Member Since: 5th Jun 2001
Total posts: 53
Posted:Hiyaaa,I'm a french 22 year old part time raver part time metal fan. I spin fire and I find that glowstix are JUST an alternative.Appart from that I can say "this one is not as good as me" I don't really enjoy seeing a lamer performing but I understand others do (I like it only if I'm trying to teach them a few moves) on the other hand I have a *LOT* of respect (not jaleousy) for good twirlers and I'm absolutly not in this let's_see_who's_the_best thing. if someone is better than me and accept to teach me I'm in heaven. If someone want me to learn him something and ask nicely no problem I LOVE to teach.What stereotype fits me the best
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On the notion of who is better than who it's so obvious it don't need a 'Battle' to sort it out and at term it's not really important at all.The day everybody will realize that the important question is not:"am I the best at what I'm doing" but "How much pleasure can I have while doing what I do"the world will be perfect but Young minds need time to think about it...and I'm with pixy_goth the US way of life is not stranger to this conflict. You are fighting against a whole culture here.To solve this problem maybe we can just open an american-raver forum and a nice_people_from_others_contry in another corner of the site
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... rascism ...Ok hard to find a good solution to such a problem... we can't even say: 'you lame are just spinning bits of plastic in the hope to be cool. GO AWAY !!!'... too much agressiv for us cool people
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...Errrr... only joking here I respect good glowsticks spinner (nearly
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) as I respect good fire twirlersIf you want to know (even if you don't want anyway
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) at a larger scale it's the same problem as the economical dilema we have in France. The US economy respect nothing and is dominant through the world so it's very hard to keep ours which is more human but not 'competitive' in the term of the US economy which is THE standart because of its dominance.Same problem in france with the underground freeparty scene... it becomes a fad now it's dying... good sound system escape from france others organize only very little and private party.I predict that one day there will be so much american-glowstickers-ravers here that the few good old fire spinners remaining will be crushed under the steel glove of their overwhelming bad attitude
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I joke but it's maybe true on the internet like in wild life or today's economics the number = the force.Using this simple conclusion the only way to stop this bad attitude is to stop (or to reduce the flow) of people with a 'bad' attitude to avoid them to be in a dominant position. In this case we will maybe have enough time to change their way of thinking and after that we could incorporate again a few of them little by little.I don't see how we could do this distinction between 'cool' and 'bad' people. I don't see how to stop 'bad' people to write on this board. And in any case I don't find that these methods are very democratic.Conclusion:Poi fad = we 're in the shit !!Possible solution:Escape of 'cool' people in a sort of hidden heaven with no 'bad' people in sight for a while.DasK_0f_The_Kool_Fire_Klan
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PS: (after seeing my post on the board)YYYiiiiiHHaaaaaa my longest post ever. F$K it took me half an our to write it !!!What do you think about it ???What do yo[This message has been edited by dask (edited 10 August 2001).]


o]-[DasK]-[o

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vanize
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Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Austin, Texas
Member Since: 21st Aug 2001
Total posts: 3899
Posted:The ravers in the Houston, Texas area are a varied group, but they are all very young. Many of them a very cool people, a few of them are complete #$%#@! that can't handle their drugs or hormones. As a comparative oldster who doesn't quite fit into their scene, I generally enjoy partying with them anyway. Ravers try to spin here, but they don't make up what I see as the core group. The people who actually put a lot of time into learning poi in this city are some of the best people I have ever met. We push each other to learn more, but there is no competition to it, just comraderie. When I start ot feel cocky about my spinning, I take a trip to Austin to watch Tantien perform, and am thus humbled and inspired futher. Unfortunaely, I know I'll never look as good doing it as they do - mainly because I'm not a woman and don't look nearly as gorgeous as them. Oh well.But I digress. The serious spiners I know in Houston and Austin, and those I've met from the rest of the states, are excellent people. There are some ravers around here who seem to have the attitude that it is a competition, but these kids generally don't have the skill at it to compete with anyone I know who is serious about this art. It is quite easy to shut them down once they start putting on airs. Once that is done you can go up to them and chat with them in a friedly way. I praise what part of their technique shows promise and then invite them to come join us at one of our spinning workshops. Sometimes they actually show up, and then they see what we are about and we have a convert that already knows a few basics. My point is - don't give up on the art to those who see it as an agressive "I'm better than you" kind of thing. They just haven't seen the light yet. And there is a big beautiful light inside of those flaming chains.

-v-

Wiederstand ist Zwecklos!

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NYC_not_PK
NYC_not_PK

One Tyred Guy
Location: Camaiore, Lu, Italy
Member Since: 13th May 2001
Total posts: 203
Posted:Steriotypes often occur when a select group of individuals is used to represent a general population. I don't think that the behavior you descrbe is representative of the times nor is it related exclusively to "rave" culture. I think if you take ANY Fad you will get an "I can do anything you can do, better" group of people. Be it racing cars, playing basket ball, video games, you name it, kids will compete.I think it's unfair and dangerous to ACT ON steriotypes. This is what I see happening... A few ravers have come on and peacocked as kids will do. People have been offended, bored, insulted, distracted by the actions and made broad assumptions about rave society, or even more absurdly, people who poi with glowsticks. As a HS teacher I get to interact with the raver kids who AREN'T posting, picking fights, showing off and they are exactly as sweet or evil as the rest of the general kid population. You just never get to see them. Just like you never get to see the vast majority of african american kids who DIDN'T just steal the car or the heavy metal fans who DIDN'T just shoot up his school on the evening news.If you go on ANY other discussion group you will find the EXACT same type of conversations happening in every walk of life.My point is, if you have a problem with something. Try to fix what you don't like about it. There's no need to steriotype or generalize. The issue at hand SEEMS to be people treating other people with disrespect on the board. If this is the case, let's address that.No need to blame the ravers, males, or Americans. Because, frankly, I don't think I did anything wrong.

PK is a god.. i love the Peeekster.

.:PK:. [poiinthepark founder member]


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing smileSTAY SAFE! hug

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emptyset
member
Location: Albany, NY United States of Am...
Member Since: 24th Jan 2001
Total posts: 98
Posted:mrmo_nyc You are the man. I need to start getting some high school teachers as cool as you. you just said what would take me forever to articulate

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Pele
Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA
Member Since: 15th Dec 2000
Total posts: 6193
Posted:Hmmm...I am female. I am American. I was a teacher. I will say the disrespect is something in our culture these days, no matter what we are applying it to. That is a sad truth. I will also say that such an anonymous forum with which to have a soapbox is always going to breed some kind of dissent, and the younger the kids the more apt they are to be disrespectful or "show off", as it were, since truely kids have very little say in any other aspect of their lives. This forum makes them feel important and if they feel threatened they are going to defend that importance the only way they know how. At least, that is how I read these things. They will hopefully grow and learn. There are, however, some who simply don't fall into this category and are just rude and the see me type. They usually aren't on her long before they grow board with being ignored. I will say I have met both people who spin fire exclusively and those who choose glowsticks. I will say the glowstickers had more of a see me attitude whereas the fire have more of a show me attitude. However, one of the glowstickers said something very funny, that her mom wouldn't allow her to do fire though she really wanted to. When I asked why the answer was because it would freak her mom out. It's a whole different mentality, more rebellious I think.As for the show me attitude, that has been wonderful. I personally am shy and don't particularly like to spin when I first meet other spinners, because I feel so inadequate. I prefer to watch and learn. Then again, as Mr. Mo put it, when it comes to spinning I have multiple personalities anyway!
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I have learned much from, especially Peregrine, Nomad, Xaestrel and Galaxie and I think that is the spirit of the board. What happens when we meet face to face. I think most ego's go out the window at that point. I especially know that for the few glowstickers that I have been around for their first burns, their ego's definately went up in flames!!!There is hope for all to be in peace yet!I babbled long enough.....------------------Pele Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir...http://www.pyromorph.com


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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Posted:well, i must say there there is plenty of evidence to support the idea that ravers have an "i must battle and be the best" mentalty in their spinning, and in some cases it's true. but in my experience, that's not the majority. there is a code that most slingers follow, kind of like chivalry. if we see someone whos not as good, we don't just jump out to show how much better we are. we respect anyone who spins, an offer advice and help. i've battled before, but it's usually for show, to entertain those who watch. i've never made an enemy from battling, and it's where we ravers learn and exchange most of our moves. it always ends with congats and "how did you do that move!?!" after a battle, that's when you get to know people, and practice with someone there to teach. i remember when i first started, i only watched battles, and then i'd go home and practice. then i participated in one, and learned some stuff. i went back and battled again, and again, each time learning more. now i'm the one that does most of the teaching, and i look forward to going to a big party in hopes of meeting someone who will blow me out of the water. cause i know that there are lot's of people better than me. i hope i've shead a little light on the purpose of battling, it's not all bad.don't hate, it's such a contageous disease.

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mikeyb
member
Location: Oxford, UK
Member Since: 5th Apr 2001
Total posts: 93
Posted:Last night, watching the athletics on TV, a thought occurred to me about this thread, in particular the idea that US-ians are in some way especially competitive.You see...Michael Johnson (US)Marion Jones (US)Linford Christie (UK)Donovan Bailey (Canadian)Ian Thorpe (Australian)Michael Schumacher (German)Mary Pierce (French)Ronaldo (Brazil)Haile Gebrsellasie (Ethiopian)....See where I'm going here? Every country has its competitors, its cooperators, and a spectrum in between. Which made me wonder - Poi: art, sport, or something else? because if you see it as an art, then competition doesn't make sense.if you see it as a sport, then noncompetitiveness doesn't make sense.I'll say where I stand later.mikeyB

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dask
member
Location: BzH-=-France
Member Since: 5th Jun 2001
Total posts: 53
Posted:mickeyB:Intersting to define poi: art or sport???As far as I'm concern poi as always been associated with juggling or with performing.None of this last two activities are actually sports. So poi is more an art thing for me.So.... competition doesn't make sense
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Dask_who_want_to_read_different_opinions_on_this_point


o]-[DasK]-[o

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pixygoth
member
Location: Dundee/Edinburgh, Scotland
Member Since: 4th Aug 2001
Total posts: 14
Posted:Dask... a fellow metaller!! Yay! And also thankyou for 'speaking' to me... I was starting to feel like I was being ostracised for being a 'newbie'...Poi *has* to be an art, IMHO. What mere sport could ever hope to be so beautiful??
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And i reckon competitivness in poi can only reduce its scope... you need to learn and teach and network and develop, not just want to win "battles". Is this "battling" business commonplace at raves etc. then? I'm not really a party animal, you see... and if it _is_ common, I may stay this way...p_g xx


Shonagh~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~'tralala, said the happy little pixygoth'

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Blackbird
member
Location: London UK
Member Since: 23rd Jul 2001
Total posts: 337
Posted:One supposes it is like ballet, or cheerleading, or figureskating, etc; a performance art, which is primarily for pleasure but may be done in competition; comprising of a combination of personal aesthetic judgement and interpretation (= 'style') and technical ability (= 'technique')Both are, of course, required for an effective performance...er, I have forgotten what the point I was trying to make was, sorry. I stopped typing and started spinning halfway through posting
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x X x Ĉ К я x X x

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clarkey
member
Location: stratford-upon-avon, UK
Member Since: 19th Jul 2001
Total posts: 29
Posted:I would definitely agree that poi is an art rather than a sport... but that subject is getting off the thread.To get back to Finn's original post (Battling, an American thing?) i would just like to add that in the UK i have never come across any twirler that has tried to 'battle' me to decide who has the most skill, or can do the most moves, etc. Only that every twirler i have met have been more than willing to inform me of anything about poi, or help me learn a move, or answer any questions i may have about there 'set', and so on
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. That is one of the things that i like most about poi, it is social and friendly... twirlers seem to me to be of the same sort of people. I would to like think that a twirler would give a fellow twirler the time to watch there moves and help them with any problems they have, and vice versa. Instead, of just showing off in front of them. This is getting back to another thread of keeping your moves secret, instead of teaching others.When i first came to this board i had never seen one like it b4, i thought it was really cool that so many like minded individuals from around the world discussed and exchanged knowledge and cultural aspects from there countries and about there poi styles, without any discrimination towards age, colour etc. I think it would be a great shame if it just dissolved into some lame dispute over whose best. Sorry if i have offended any1, it is not my intention.Easy Now, Clarkey
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The best way to predict the future is to invent it

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Pele
Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA
Member Since: 15th Dec 2000
Total posts: 6193
Posted:Hmmm....I like the way it was described as a performance art, yes. However there are,imho, beautiful and artistic sports as well...gymnastics, especially the rhythm kind, synch swimming (it is really hard), figure skating, those freestyle skiers (I have no idea what it is called), skateboard, freestyle biking (the ones who do all the tricks to music), though I even think watching the casting of a fly fishing line has a beauty and grace all it's own.I think it is both. I think it requires the physical focus and discipline of a sport. My idea behind this is that in sports you train your body to perform a certain way, to move, to breathe...and we do this with spinning. How often has your body just followed the poi where it would be lead, become one with it the same as a swimmer tries to meld into the water or a javelin thrower tries to find that perfect balance. See?However, it is an art (oh I am such a Libra!
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), no denying it there either. It is a mode of personal expression. A way to express our emotions in an outward way so that others can feel it as well.Now, who is to say that art is not competitive? Acting is an art. People compete for parts all the time. Singing? Who will get that solo? Music? "No, I wanna lead the band". Print Art? They compete for covers or bigger page space or simply recognition. Art is very competitive in nature. I will say, my chosen arts are performing and writing. I am very competitive in these respects. I push myself and my arts to get what stage I want, what part I want, etc. Art is very competitive too. I do think though that individual spinning for fun should be artful play, with out competition.So, let me ask this, as and art do you find it more spiritual expression, emotional or just in the moment type things?------------------Pele Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir...http://www.pyromorph.com


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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NYC_not_PK
NYC_not_PK

One Tyred Guy
Location: Camaiore, Lu, Italy
Member Since: 13th May 2001
Total posts: 203
Posted:If artists compete in an event, is that a sport?I think it could be, in the loosest sense of the word. Figureskating, synchronized swimming, diving, and gymnastics all seem like an art to me.Every year the cheerleaders get into an argument with the basketball players as to whether competative cheerleading is a "real" sport or not.I think both arguements have validity. If you introduce enough competitiveness to ANYthing, it may become a sport.-1999 and 2000 household Nintendo champion, MrMo.

PK is a god.. i love the Peeekster.

.:PK:. [poiinthepark founder member]


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing smileSTAY SAFE! hug

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Twist
member

Member Since: 4th Apr 2001
Total posts: 160
Posted:ah semantics...(this thread's all over the map, huh?)"sport" does not have to refer specifically to an atheletic competition....as in i'm doing it "for sport." it refers, more so, to an activity thay is a diversion from the humdrum of daily life..."art" does not have to refer to an activity focused on creating beauty. rather an "art" is something to be perfected... thus "martial arts" (which are obviously physically competitive in the way "sports" might be) are "arts" because their primary goal is for the individual to strive for physical and mental self-betterment...so... to wrap this around to the original intention of the thread....those who are competitive about poi for the sake of winning might be seen as engaged in "sport"those who swing poi to relax and have fun but don't push themselves much (this is where i'm at lately) might be seen as ding it for "sport"those who compete civilly with themselves or others for the sake of sel-betterment and a more perfect ability might be seen to engage in it for the sake of "art"and, of course, there are gradations in between......but, by this system, you can see michael jordan as an artist, despite his engagement in a sport......and you can trash britney spears (why do i keep writing about britney spears?) or the backstreet boys as hacks, despite their supposed engagement in the "art" of music...oh i could ramble on...i do love semantics...

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GoaFire
member
Location: Leeds
Member Since: 17th Jul 2001
Total posts: 71
Posted:hellooooid have to say it is an art form...because..any kind of art...wether your painting a picture...sculpting...drawing...creating music...etc...in art your expressing your feelings...your emotions...your desires!?!poi is the same...your being creative!...your expressing yourself!...art isnt just an object/being...its the feeling/emotion that you put into it...question...when you twirl confidently...are you constantly remembering and deciding which move todo next...or are you just letting it flow through you...???i dont think i need to say anymore...*smiles**smiles n huggles*goafire

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alterego
alterego

Warm beer is infinitely colder than no beer
Location: Boulder, Co
Member Since: 4th Jul 2001
Total posts: 222
Posted:Perhaps we should try not to categorize it, but leave the thing we all love in a category of its own, setting it on its own pedestal for all to gawk at while it induces dangerous passion and flickers brilliant light from the midst of its very soul, roaring its love in circles around the body it protects while feeding our addiction and chastising any hope of ever coming back.Love always,Spanky[This message has been edited by Spanky (edited 11 August 2001).]

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