Forums > Beginner Poi Moves > Alternate Butterfly/Mexican Wave

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Tambo
member
Location: Exeter
Member Since: 12th Nov 2002
Total posts: 97
Posted:I am having real problems with this move! and I was wondering if anyone could give me some tips. I know what it is I need to do in my head, but when it comes to doing it my brain says Fxxk off! and I end up in tangled mess or wholloping myself in the face!

I am new to poi and do not have any one around who can show me what I am doing wrong. I follow the instructions on this site, but I think its because the poi are swinging forward and you have to move your hand back over your shoulder and for some reason my brain does not compute and everything goes wrong.
Any tips or help would be greatly appreciated as I don't have any where else to get advice from!!!!

Thanks XxxXxx


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flid
flid

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Warwickshire
Member Since: 27th Aug 2002
Total posts: 3136
Posted:try doing the overhead butterfly first, when you can do one beat normal, one beat overhead etc then the mexican wave is essentially this motion in split time.

If you can do the corkscrew and you stand up you have the windmill. The mexican wave is the same as the windmill, but one poi is travelling in the opposite direction. Thus if you start doing the corkscrew but the right hand is going counter-clockwise and the left hand clockwise (i forget the name of this), when you stand up you have the mexican wave.


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flid
flid

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Warwickshire
Member Since: 27th Aug 2002
Total posts: 3136
Posted:another important thing to note is to practice new types of move one hand at at time, with the other hand out of the way. Do this with each hand before trying complicated moves with 2 poi at once.

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Tambo
member
Location: Exeter
Member Since: 12th Nov 2002
Total posts: 97
Posted:Thanks for your advice! I will give it a go at home tonight (if its not raining! )



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Intala
Intala

member

Member Since: 20th Jul 2005
Total posts: 86
Posted:ok, one more question about the mexican wave... and every other swing behind the back probably... but does the circle one makes while spinning the poi have to be perfectly (or almost) vertical to make it work? And how do you get it that way?



Love, Intala


Practise Harry, practise

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TinklePants
TinklePants

Clique Infiltrator, Cunning Linguist and Master Debator
Location: Edinburgh burgh burrrrrr
Member Since: 3rd Jul 2005
Total posts: 4217
Posted:I take not hitting the backs of my legs as perfect ubblol

Always use "so's your face" and "only on Tuesdays" in as many conversations possible

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Intala
Intala

member

Member Since: 20th Jul 2005
Total posts: 86
Posted:huh? hitting your legs? I can't get my spin vertical... let alone past that point to be able to hit my legs....

Love, Intala


Practise Harry, practise

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Imbalance
Imbalance

not different, just not the same
Location: Charlotte, NC
Member Since: 9th Sep 2005
Total posts: 263
Posted:my 2 cents:

why would you want a vertical swing? only exceptionaly flexible people have i ever seen have a really vertical back swing. actually, NOT having a perfectly vertical spin helps with the windmill and other such vertical over the back moves (in my opinion). If you know someone who can do the windmill, have them do it and stand out to their side, if you watch the trace of one poi, it will make the shape of a capital A. this helps avoid hitting the backs of your legs and such. THIS IS ESPECIALLY HELPFUL whn useing glowsticks in a club and dancing along to the music as u spin.

but then, thats just my opinion.


I once learned every move that there was,
Every style, Every technique.
Then I woke up, and forgot it all,
So now I struggle to dream.

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Igirisujin
Igirisujin

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Preston
Member Since: 10th Jul 2005
Total posts: 2666
Posted:When your trying to do a mexiacan weave/alternate butterfly, make sure your poi are spinning in the right directions. Are your palms facing upwards?



There are two ways of doing a butterfly. theres palms facing upwards and next to each other. Or theres plams facing down and across each other.



While a butterfly is possible with either of these, a mexiacan weave and alternate butterfly (the alternate in particular) are impossible. Palms up and next to each other is the only possible way of doing an alternate or mexican.



Get your palms facing up toward the sky first, and eventualy these moves are possible and should come quickly.



I hope that helped, that was actualy the problem I was having when I was trying to learn it, and I was stuck on it for months until I figure it out, then within a week I was doing the alternate and the same day, the mexican weave smile


Chief adviser to the Pharaoh, in one very snazzy mutli-coloured coat

'Time goes by so slowly for those who wait...' - Whatever Happend To Baby Madonna?

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_khan_
_khan_

old hand
Location: San Francisco, California, USA
Member Since: 17th Nov 2004
Total posts: 768
Posted:Written by: Brit_Joe


While a butterfly is possible with either of these, a mexiacan weave and alternate butterfly (the alternate in particular) are impossible. Palms up and next to each other is the only possible way of doing an alternate or mexican.





Actually, this isn't true. While the way you describe -- the underhand version -- may be easier for most people to learn first (as it was for me), it can be done the other way. Though the underhand version (palms up) was easier for me to learn, the overhand version (palms down) is now the way I prefer to do it.

And, if you watch the alternate butterfly video in the free lessons section of this site, you will see that the person doing the demonstration is doing it overhand (palms down). Of course your hand flips the opposite way when it goes over your shoulder (as can be seen in the vid, but she's starting palms down). But that's true no matter which way you do the butterfly in front of you.


taken out of context i must seem so strange
~ ani di franco

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_khan_
_khan_

old hand
Location: San Francisco, California, USA
Member Since: 17th Nov 2004
Total posts: 768
Posted:Written by: Tambo


I am new to poi and do not have any one around who can show me what I am doing wrong. I follow the instructions on this site, but I think its because the poi are swinging forward and you have to move your hand back over your shoulder and for some reason my brain does not compute and everything goes wrong.
Any tips or help would be greatly appreciated as I don't have any where else to get advice from!!!!

Thanks XxxXxx




If you're starting with the poi swinging forwards, you have to flip your hand so that the poi are swinging reverse over your shoulder. And vice versa.


taken out of context i must seem so strange
~ ani di franco

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_khan_
_khan_

old hand
Location: San Francisco, California, USA
Member Since: 17th Nov 2004
Total posts: 768
Posted:Written by: Intala

ok, one more question about the mexican wave... and every other swing behind the back probably... but does the circle one makes while spinning the poi have to be perfectly (or almost) vertical to make it work? And how do you get it that way?

Love, Intala



it doesn't have to be perfectly vertical for the poi to not tangle if you have the timing right. however, having your planes as vertical as you can get is, imo, more effective. people watching you will see full circles if you can get them vertical whereas when they're not, they'll get oval or ellipsoid shapes. still interesting, i suppose, but the full effect of the pattern is lost, imo. and how you get them vertical is practice. i'm not being snide there, that's really the answer. when i first started spinning, i spent a lot of time drilling planes -- not doing any 'moves' -- just spinning circles behind my head, over my shoulder, behind my waist with one poi at a time until i could spin vertical circles in each position with both hands, in both directions. having clean planes is very important when/if you start doing behind the back work. and generally, clean planes just look more controlled, which i personally find more aesthetically pleasing. you can break planes, of course, and that seems to be a new realm being explored in some circles, so to speak, but there's a big difference when a spinner is breaking planes because they're choosing to do so, versus breaking planes because they can't control them.

and

Written by: Imbalance

why would you want a vertical swing?




see above.


taken out of context i must seem so strange
~ ani di franco

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Igirisujin
Igirisujin

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Preston
Member Since: 10th Jul 2005
Total posts: 2666
Posted:Aah I see blueboy, well I have a question to ask about the alternate butterfly. IVe been told you cant do an alternate butterfly if you throw your left arm over your right shoulder, and right arm over your left shoulder. They say that you must do each arm over the same shoulder.



Do you think you can do opposite shoulders? This goes for anyone else too I suppose. I will keep trying this over the next week or so to see. IVe thought about it once or twice but never really tired practicing it properlly.


Chief adviser to the Pharaoh, in one very snazzy mutli-coloured coat

'Time goes by so slowly for those who wait...' - Whatever Happend To Baby Madonna?

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_khan_
_khan_

old hand
Location: San Francisco, California, USA
Member Since: 17th Nov 2004
Total posts: 768
Posted:Brit_Joe, yes you can do it over the opposite shoulder -- but you have to do a ttn in front rather than a regular butterfly -- it's switching which hand is on top that makes it work when you do it like that. e.g., if you start with your right hand on top, you can swing it over your left shoulder, then bring it back, but then your left hand has to move to the top position, so you can then swing it over your right shoulder.

taken out of context i must seem so strange
~ ani di franco

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Igirisujin
Igirisujin

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Preston
Member Since: 10th Jul 2005
Total posts: 2666
Posted:Erm cool, ok I just wanna ask, whats ttn?

Chief adviser to the Pharaoh, in one very snazzy mutli-coloured coat

'Time goes by so slowly for those who wait...' - Whatever Happend To Baby Madonna?

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_khan_
_khan_

old hand
Location: San Francisco, California, USA
Member Since: 17th Nov 2004
Total posts: 768
Posted:oh sorry...thread the needle. it's basically a butterfly, but you're switching which hand is on top with a sort of forward-back motion. for most people, it seems the overhand version is easier to learn first than the underhand version. i think there's probably a tutorial in the lessons section.

taken out of context i must seem so strange
~ ani di franco

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Drudwyn
Drudwyn

Forget puppy power, Scrappy's just gay
Location: Southampton Uni
Member Since: 27th Aug 2005
Total posts: 632
Posted:Isn't the underhand forward ttn in antispin? Because your hand's going against the direction of spin? I'm sure someone in one of the antispin threads was talking about half the butterfly weave being antispin, becuase you're doing a rev ttn with the overhand... I may have completely missed your point though. :P

Spin, bounce, be one with the world, because it is yours to enjoy...

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simian
simian

110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
Location: London
Member Since: 11th Oct 2002
Total posts: 3149
Posted:i think he meant:
underhand=backward
overhand=forward

tho i may be wrong shrug

most excellent advising there blueboy! i salute you! thusly: wave


"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."

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_khan_
_khan_

old hand
Location: San Francisco, California, USA
Member Since: 17th Nov 2004
Total posts: 768
Posted:Written by: simian

i think he meant:
underhand=backward
overhand=forward




simian, indeed that is what i meant. i think this is a difference between american and english terminology.

and thank you for the salute. it means a lot coming from an old-timer such as yourself. i'm just excited i finally have something to contribute in a tech thread!! beerchug


taken out of context i must seem so strange
~ ani di franco

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simian
simian

110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
Location: London
Member Since: 11th Oct 2002
Total posts: 3149
Posted:"old-timer" ubblol

underhand and overhand is better terminology IMO

cos butterflies don't really go forwards anyhoo

and a "forward butterfly" is made up of two poi going in backward circles confused


"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."

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