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Glåss
Glåss

The Ministry of Manipulation
Location: Bristol
Member Since: 8th Nov 2001
Total posts: 2523
Posted:Throughout the world of poi there walk a breed aside from other moves. Many have claimed that they don’t exist, or that they did, but that they died out with some long lost tribe of poi masters, and now they are “just legends”. But, they exist, and not just in the fairy tales we tell young poisters and poiettes to make then scared of the bogie poi that live under their beds.

The Jedi set are the most technical of the most technical moves.
The Jedi set are the poi swinging moves which defy the known laws of the physical world.
For everyone of them, at the moment only a handful are known, is utterly a Jedi move.

Until recently the easiest known move in the the jedi set was a 5 beat weave to reverse 5 beat weave behind the back, preferably done in the wall plane. And yet some exciting new discoveries uncovered using the latest state of the are technology in archeopoilogy. New additions have been threatening to join the ranks of the Jedi set, The Eight Council of Poi demi-gods are currently in congress to determine the place if any of these exciting new finds which include 2 air wraps within the Jedi set.

Not everything is known of the origins of the Jedi set. But it is much hinted in pagan folklaw, that in days of old back in martober two mysterious men, possibly of a tribe of orangeness denoted by their attire met in a misty field in Clay-pham a small village near Londinium. And lo, One of them who may have been the legendary Jedi Tony Touch spaketh unto the other, (the ugly stupid one with poor personal hygiene) who is, it is rumoured to be a distant forefather of the author. (alas the lineage has never been proven).

“That move is utterly Jedi.”

And to the sounds of trumpets from between the legs of a chorus of angels, the Jedi set was gently placed by a large crane amongst the meeting of poiers.
And the quest began...

That was many moons ago, and little remains to document what happened in that original quest...


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coleman
coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay
Member Since: 29th Aug 2002
Total posts: 7330
Posted:i did say isolations weren't worth thinking about.

what about the other four examples dude?
can you give a beat count for any of them?!


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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Jez
addict
Location: UK, London
Member Since: 11th Apr 2001
Total posts: 642
Posted:butterfly moves you don't count the beats for as they in theory have infinite beats unless you choose otherwise the other moves you describe are just a matter of counting in the right places. i.e. for fountains you count them as seperate moves and not altogether.
first you count them one one side left to right. then you count them above and behind then back to left and right again.

Hard to explain for me as not very good at putting things into words but I was explaining it all to sir sheep this morning showing her where to count the beats.


'Happiness is liking peeing on yourself. Everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth.'

'If *I* had a hammer, there'd be no more folk singers.'

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arashi
arashi

Pooh-Bah
Location: austin,tx
Member Since: 21st Mar 2002
Total posts: 2363
Posted:i think you boys are getting sucked into formalism though i agree w/ jez that counting circles is the way to go for specificity. the only reason you would even want to count like that would be
A) instruction of a new additional dance/tricks possibility(i.e. "moves")(in other words a trick or lie in and of itself, the finger pointing at the moon, not the moon itself)
B) choreography- and you would be going by the beats or flow of the music, (hopefully) and how many circles you all make for each. as i've said if i'm counting weaves i go by circles before a crossover.
but personally i don't think this is what glass was even talking about... i think the point that glass was trying to make is... every so called "move" is a devolution into formality. structure your spinning around the dance instead and you can easily escape such boxes.
as nyc said about beats, "Theyre just a lie we use to teach newbies some moves. "
well, i go further and say, "MOVES are a lie we teach newbies who don't know how to flow reactively yet"


-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.

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[Nx?]
[Nx?]

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both
Member Since: 5th Nov 2001
Total posts: 3749
Posted:yes. what he said.

This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti

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Jez
addict
Location: UK, London
Member Since: 11th Apr 2001
Total posts: 642
Posted:ok reread what Glass said and I understand what he means now!

feeling stupid.

Its all about timing!


'Happiness is liking peeing on yourself. Everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth.'

'If *I* had a hammer, there'd be no more folk singers.'

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TheWibbler
old hand
Location: New Zealand
Member Since: 11th Apr 2003
Total posts: 920
Posted:If we spin poi precicely in time with the music, is that re-active or pro-active? Does the music drive us or do we drive the music? And in that space;
does time stand still,
matter and energy unite,
and universes collide
?


Spherculism ~:~ The Act of becoming Spherculish.

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Rev
Rev

Bastard Newbie Messiah
Location: Apparently lost in my ego
Member Since: 14th Mar 2003
Total posts: 1269
Posted:its all a lie I tell you.. you just 'think' you are spinning poi.. its all in your head I tell you.. all of it..


*gets strapped down in an 'I love me' jacket and taken away*

"Sorry about that.. he has meta-physical issues..."


More useless information courtesy of Rev...
Confusing the masses, one post at a time...
"Obviously, you're not a golfer.."- The Dude
"Buy the ticket... Take the ride..." -Raoul Duke
"FEMA has never done catastrophe planning..."-Michael Brown

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tenticle
tenticle

enthusiast
Location: ati: on: She: ffi: eld: UK:
Member Since: 13th Aug 2002
Total posts: 275
Posted:Heh, the poi dance to the music, they just need someone to hold them up...

--Ben


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coleman
coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay
Member Since: 29th Aug 2002
Total posts: 7330
Posted:quote:Originally posted by coleman:
jez - beats are only good for describing basic, symmetrical moves. quote:Originally posted by Jez:
butterfly moves you don't count the beats that makes beats even more useless than i thought!

for me, its like arashi and glass said - "MOVES are a lie we teach newbies who don't know how to flow reactively yet" and "And as for 4 and 5 circle weave, screw it, theres no need to count, just think of the extra loop wrist wrap as a movement in itself, and you can throw it into your follow time spinning anywhere."

conclusion: beats are handy but after a good grounding in poi basics has been reached, they may as well be dead.

whatever you do, don't tell klaus...


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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DeepSoulSheep
DeepSoulSheep

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Berlin
Member Since: 25th Sep 2002
Total posts: 2617
Posted:Count the beats in this little move -->

I live in a world of infinite possibilities.

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Jez
addict
Location: UK, London
Member Since: 11th Apr 2001
Total posts: 642
Posted:I think that is in 4/4 rhythm and I call it the 4 beat spanking!

'Happiness is liking peeing on yourself. Everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth.'

'If *I* had a hammer, there'd be no more folk singers.'

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NYC
NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Member Since: 26th Aug 2001
Total posts: 9232
Posted:Wow, I'm flattered to be quoted so often.

"Beats are a lie we tell newbies" indeed... to quote myself. But I don't find them useless.

I do think they have and will always have a place in education and communication of certain families of moves. And then, like all models, they fall apart upon extensive scrutiny. That doesn't make the model dead, it just makes it not relevant for cerain examples.

I still find beats useful. I do think a 5 beat btb weave exists and I still don't know how to do it. I can ask about it and the term 'beat' is relevant.

In higher level moves, I agree, they don't have the same relevance BUT that doesn't mean that they are useless.

Issues of communicating moves verbally, coreography, and education should continue to use 'beats' to express certain ideas.

Stop the beat bashing.


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

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Rev
Rev

Bastard Newbie Messiah
Location: Apparently lost in my ego
Member Since: 14th Mar 2003
Total posts: 1269
Posted:I dunno.. on one hand calling everything cirlces will just suck.. hey how about that 7 circle weave or that 4 circle TTN... that's confusing.. because it would be so easy for a noob to mistake 2 2circle ttns for a 4 circle ttn...

then again.. I dont' think beats really make things much clearer.. and I think the poi beat/ music beat mixup is even more confusing then the circles for a noob...


but its like my boy Itchell said... I don't care what its called, I can do it.. I think that is what matters.. If they want the technical jargon, then they can go the extra mile to get all of this stuff straight for themselves.. I don't really think we should change things to make them simpler for other folk..

well.. now that I've rambledon and accomplished nothing..I turn this thread over to the next poster..


More useless information courtesy of Rev...
Confusing the masses, one post at a time...
"Obviously, you're not a golfer.."- The Dude
"Buy the ticket... Take the ride..." -Raoul Duke
"FEMA has never done catastrophe planning..."-Michael Brown

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coleman
coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay
Member Since: 29th Aug 2002
Total posts: 7330
Posted:beats ----> circles

cf

newtonian gravity ----> general relativity



you can explain everything beats can explain with circles - it's just a little harder to grasp from nothing.

eventually beats fall over but to be fair if you ever catch me teaching i'll probably still say 'beat' more times than i say 'circle'...

's to all from coleman the circular beatnik.


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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TheWibbler
old hand
Location: New Zealand
Member Since: 11th Apr 2003
Total posts: 920
Posted:I hear what your saying about beats and circles, and I agree that beats are very useful for teaching more basic moves and circles are useful for intermediate stuff.

So at what point does 'circle 1' become 'circle 2' - I tend to call that point the 'beat'.

Personally I believe that any term used in music or dance can also be applied to poi; beats, rhythm, pitch, tone, form, shape, etc.

And if you wanna get all Techy on me, then just as the world is not spherical; poi don't ever travel in cirlces. It's all just Spherculish.

So I say to you that circles never even existed.


Spherculism ~:~ The Act of becoming Spherculish.

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NYC
NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Member Since: 26th Aug 2001
Total posts: 9232
Posted:So why don't we just redefine 'beats' as 'circles'. I mean the only people that would disagree are all right here.

I'm not going to start teaching newbies a "three circle weave" nor am I going to ask for transitions into and out of a "4 circle thread the needle"...

I've got no problem saying that "beats used to be more compllicated but now we just use that words to mean circles"

Especially since everyone who doesn't hang in the 'poi moves' section of HoP doesn't know the difference between 'beats' and 'circles' anyway.

Doubleespecially since whenever I'm using the words, I usualy mean circles because I'm talking about basic moves anyway.

Tripleespecially since nobody in my City or State can do a move where the two aren't the same.

"Long live beats: circles of the common mortals."


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

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PK_
PK_

Lambretta Fanatic

Member Since: 20th Dec 2001
Total posts: 4991
Posted:*watches the paint dry!*

circles and beats are neither here nor there, they can be counted in some moves but not all, progression in learning abillities and understanding of what we do will share in the knowledge that it all goes to shit in the end.
As most people have said, its some times easier to teach others by giving them a figure whether in beats or circles, all the figures match up, its all in the name, and **** names; weave, 3 circle weave, cross follow.... **** it.

I'm off to play with nats hamster, its more fun than discussions of circles and beats.


PK.

"To be an angel, one need not have wings.
In giving love there is an equal grace.
Nor need one seek the aura in the face,
As love unveils the beauty of all things."

*Francois Couperin.

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[Nx?]
[Nx?]

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both
Member Since: 5th Nov 2001
Total posts: 3749
Posted:*claps*

This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti

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Austin
member
Location: South East London
Member Since: 3rd Sep 2002
Total posts: 54
Posted:The real reason is because everybody is reeeeeeeeally lazy and beat is only a one syllable word as opposed to cir-cle...

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dromepixie
dromepixie

veteran
Location: Florida
Member Since: 20th May 2002
Total posts: 1463
Posted:After two years of being in HOP I finally decided to check out the Jedi thread.

F*cking amusing really!

Love it loads as i'm sure most do. I just cant phathom talking about moves on a comp. Difficult to visualise and even more difficult to attempt whilst reading unless your chair can do poi too!

I was happy to find out that I do have some Jedi moves sorted
I haven't though got past page one...

But what of the grace of spinning for the pure enjoyments of it whilst also pulling off some sick jedi stunts.

Ah will leave that for another thread...

oh and beats are just a figment of everybodys imagination...

hugs love light
drome


JUGGLEwithyourmind!

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NYC
NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Member Since: 26th Aug 2001
Total posts: 9232
Posted:I can't help but make the observation that those who are beat bashing are of the privelaged status of being from a community in which one CAN just show another.

"Why are we bothering with names of moves and beats when you can just lean over and ask coleman what he's doing"...

Not all of us are this lucky.

Names are important, descriptions are relevant, beats have purpose.

Unless you live in London.


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

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DJ Dantana
veteran
Location: Stillwater, Ok. USA
Member Since: 15th Aug 2001
Total posts: 1495
Posted:werd

we eat and we drink and we smoke and we try!

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DJ Dantana
veteran
Location: Stillwater, Ok. USA
Member Since: 15th Aug 2001
Total posts: 1495
Posted:So, um, I've been doing a LOT of work with sock poi, and I have developed several new variations on the Nexus (As I have I renamed my version of airwraps and hyperloops)

Form a nexus and do things with....

try putting recoil wraps in there. bounce it on your wrists from variouse points in the move. try recoiling one or two. try it with weave and butterfly nexus. See how you can begin as a weave nexus and exit as a butterfly. utilize stalls too. Check out one beat butterfly nexus where you can recoil only one poi but still finish in a butterfly... (that one still blows my mind)

After you have tried that, then try utilizing stalls and stuff. from a butterly nexus, stall both, but drop one down and bounce the other one up. From a weave nexus stall one and keep the other going.

from a weave nexus grap one poi head and do some stuff, then release it to release the nexus.



it is amazing what you can come up with when you have nothing else to do...


we eat and we drink and we smoke and we try!

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moses
member
Location: murray UT
Member Since: 18th Aug 2003
Total posts: 30
Posted:can i be a jedi??

..::Spiral Out:Keep Going::..

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bluecat
bluecat

geek, level 1
Location: everywhere
Member Since: 15th Dec 2002
Total posts: 5300
Posted:ubblol

i thought we'd established that nobody was/is jedi.

just nice, influential, silly, sick, dancey, beautiful, jotous.. or any other adjective. just not jedi(the connotations are horrible eek)

hehe
R smile

altho i notice you're asking glass directly.. g'luck wink


Holistic Spinner (I hope)

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moses
member
Location: murray UT
Member Since: 18th Aug 2003
Total posts: 30
Posted:i guess i'll have to stick to being sith...BLAST!

..::Spiral Out:Keep Going::..

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Dragon7
Dragon7

addict
Location: Aotearoa (NZ)
Member Since: 17th Oct 2003
Total posts: 625
Posted:Quote:
i thought we'd established that nobody was/is jedi.

Bluecat

Dude, i actually saw 1 guy and he really WAS jedi, although i severly doubt anyone here is near jedi, but its nice to know that maybee you could be if u really really really wanted to be. weavesmiley

Mind blowing [censored], watching people who are just beyond understanding and the commitment they put into it must be insane, cause i pratice hard like a mad dog on acid, an im not even good enough to clean these guys shoes. biggrin


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bluecat
bluecat

geek, level 1
Location: everywhere
Member Since: 15th Dec 2002
Total posts: 5300
Posted:ubblol

was only saying that cause of the nastiness that surrounded this thread for a long time.... frown

undoubtedly there are some tasty players out there. but can't we call them something else?

smileR


Holistic Spinner (I hope)

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TheWibbler
old hand
Location: New Zealand
Member Since: 11th Apr 2003
Total posts: 920
Posted:Perhaps my poi ain't Jedi but according to the british government I am a Jedi 'cos that's what I put down as my religion on the census forms ubbtickled

Spherculism ~:~ The Act of becoming Spherculish.

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tenticle
tenticle

enthusiast
Location: ati: on: She: ffi: eld: UK:
Member Since: 13th Aug 2002
Total posts: 275
Posted:Nah, according to the british government you're 'not defined' or possibly 'other'. The jedi thing would only have worked in new zealand, i think, and that was only if enough people wrote 'jedi' and then some recognized leaders of the jedi religion came forward and proved it to a bunch of religous studies experts.
I want to know how many people wrote taoist...

--ben


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