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Glåss
DIAMOND Member since Nov 2001

Glåss

The Ministry of Manipulation
Location: Bristol

Total posts: 2523
Posted:Throughout the world of poi there walk a breed aside from other moves. Many have claimed that they don’t exist, or that they did, but that they died out with some long lost tribe of poi masters, and now they are “just legends”. But, they exist, and not just in the fairy tales we tell young poisters and poiettes to make then scared of the bogie poi that live under their beds.

The Jedi set are the most technical of the most technical moves.
The Jedi set are the poi swinging moves which defy the known laws of the physical world.
For everyone of them, at the moment only a handful are known, is utterly a Jedi move.

Until recently the easiest known move in the the jedi set was a 5 beat weave to reverse 5 beat weave behind the back, preferably done in the wall plane. And yet some exciting new discoveries uncovered using the latest state of the are technology in archeopoilogy. New additions have been threatening to join the ranks of the Jedi set, The Eight Council of Poi demi-gods are currently in congress to determine the place if any of these exciting new finds which include 2 air wraps within the Jedi set.

Not everything is known of the origins of the Jedi set. But it is much hinted in pagan folklaw, that in days of old back in martober two mysterious men, possibly of a tribe of orangeness denoted by their attire met in a misty field in Clay-pham a small village near Londinium. And lo, One of them who may have been the legendary Jedi Tony Touch spaketh unto the other, (the ugly stupid one with poor personal hygiene) who is, it is rumoured to be a distant forefather of the author. (alas the lineage has never been proven).

“That move is utterly Jedi.”

And to the sounds of trumpets from between the legs of a chorus of angels, the Jedi set was gently placed by a large crane amongst the meeting of poiers.
And the quest began...

That was many moons ago, and little remains to document what happened in that original quest...


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DJ Dantana
BRONZE Member since Aug 2001

veteran
Location: Stillwater, Ok. USA

Total posts: 1495
Posted:master, are you saying Sage is going to give you a lap dance? :turns green with envy:

Then it must be true, you realy are the master.


we eat and we drink and we smoke and we try!

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arashi


arashi

Pooh-Bah
Location: austin,tx

Total posts: 2363
Posted:*PULLS COLLAR FROM NECK*
quote: rockstarashi
dude sage was the first girl i ever asked out on a date! ...
i think of her as a sister, not a sex object, and i think she's damn fine....
arsn
but rockstarashi, don't the people from austin,tx, see their sisters as sex objects
man this was so funny i had to resurrect it just for you guys... esp. for dan, mr. "i'm in love with sage" though really i lied, she's nothing more than a hot piece of booty to me... this whole long term (way too long... ever know somebody TOO well? ) friendship thing is just a cover up so i can be near her butt

and no, true to my form , we didn't go to the titty bar. i feel like a balloon... dan you should come to austin, every weekend we go boogie and sage go go dances in this cage, and her butt is right at eye level , bouncin around like a tambourine...

anyway, we better get back on topic or those british boys will come and get us...

uhhh, man, aren't hyperloops hard?


-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.

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DJ Dantana
BRONZE Member since Aug 2001

veteran
Location: Stillwater, Ok. USA

Total posts: 1495
Posted:not as hard as my luv muscle after watching....mummble mummble, er, um, yea hyperloops are very difficult.

we eat and we drink and we smoke and we try!

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NYC


NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA

Total posts: 9232
Posted:(Watches in amazement as this thread slowly degrades into porn.)



Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

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DJ Dantana
BRONZE Member since Aug 2001

veteran
Location: Stillwater, Ok. USA

Total posts: 1495
Posted:yep, it's deffinitly "Mr. Nasty" time!!!

And on that note, I will be getting some gatuitouse butt footage tonight (If I can get away with it) and it will be featured on the next video. I'm thinking "booty shakin" and "random booty walking" will be the main themes.


we eat and we drink and we smoke and we try!

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Dio


Dio

HoP Mechanical Engineer
Location: OK, USA

Total posts: 729
Posted:I believe I unearthed a new move while practicing earlier...

Basically it evolved from a botched attempt at a handcuff wrap / bf hyperloop / thing I call it the "Hyper Grab" and maybe after doing it you guys will see the similarity.

What you do - start out in forward butterfly, nothing fancy.

(Quickly) Flip your hands inward such that the backs of your hands are facing one another, and swing the opposing chain into each palm, grabbing it and holding it in the process.

You will now be doing a reverse butterfly, but with each hand chained to the other. To get out (back into forward butterfly) simply let go. After a few tries it should look pretty smooth.

I will have it in video format shortly. Might not be too incredibly complex, but it does take a fair degree of skill to not tangle and I think it's a good "wtf did they just do" sort of move if you work it into your routine unannounced.

OK back to bed, is late and my post-midnight sense of humor is kicking in.

They're my Storm Troopers! Fight, my pretties!


What hits the fan is not evenly distributed.

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Dio


Dio

HoP Mechanical Engineer
Location: OK, USA

Total posts: 729
Posted:[edit due to internet explorer error generating double post - please disregard]

[ 06. March 2003, 19:51: Message edited by: Dio ]


What hits the fan is not evenly distributed.

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coleman
SILVER Member since Aug 2002

coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay

Total posts: 7330
Posted:random isolation idea:

sorted out a nice way of getting into isolations last night from a double stop/catch kind of thing (procured originally from hyperloop wrap stalls, just to keep the jedi vibe going ).

the double wrist wrap (handcuff wrap?) that you stick into a weave can be done so that the poi heads hit your hands rather than wrapping your wrists and recoiling.

you can stall them there by catching one on the back of one hand and catching the other as it comes up into your second hand. now if ya look at it, this stalled arrangement of poi and hands is ideal to drop into isolated spins.

can be done from butterflies too (catch both on back of hands or in palms and drop in).

as an aside, from iso buzzsaw i can go into iso buzzsaw bf's and reverse the bf direction.
has anyone tried stalling a normal iso buzzsaw (with horizontal stalls) and going straight from fwds to rev *neatly*?! for some reason its really hard!


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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DJ Dantana
BRONZE Member since Aug 2001

veteran
Location: Stillwater, Ok. USA

Total posts: 1495
Posted:I like to do the double handcuff butterfly, and do it real slow, so the poi end up resting on top of my wrists, all wrapeed up, then I roll the heads so they twist up together, thus "tieing the knot" then I put my hands up over my head and pretend to be handcuffed for real, while I wiggle my hips like elvis. yes, I know, I am a sick puppy, but it IS fun.

afterwards I unroll the heads and give it a bounce, so it unwraps and I go back to spining.

Now, if I only had a girl to me while I do it.


we eat and we drink and we smoke and we try!

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coleman
SILVER Member since Aug 2002

coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay

Total posts: 7330
Posted:thought this thread deserved a well overdue bump...

from my last post: why is stalling an isolated buzzsaw so tricky?

well, i think its just that any stops in split-time are hard in general!

with a fwds isolated buzzsaw, you have to stall when your hands are on the far side of their circles away from your body (3 o'clock if you're looking from the right).

but i tried stalling and reversing a normal weave with vertical stops and keeping it in perfect split-time.
turns out i can't do that very well either!


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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Richee
BRONZE Member since Jan 2002

HOP librarian
Location: Prague

Total posts: 1841
Posted:Isolations are easy...

Do you ever try horizonal isolations? ...nice spiral and very very hard..


POI THEO(R)IST

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Meenik
SAPPHIRE Member since Nov 2001

Meenik

enthusiast
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada

Total posts: 272
Posted:Hey Glass,

A while back in this thread I tried to describe a category of moves I call compound circles (I also sometimes call them "flowers," because of the patterns they make in the air.)

Basically, compound circles are when your arms are circling independently of your poi. For instance, your poi might be moving in opposites, while your arms are outstretched and slowly chasing each other.

I'm not sure I described it well at the time, but here's a couple of videos:
Compound Circles: Arm-Chase Poi-Chase 2planes Turns In this example both the arms and the poi are moving in the same direction.

Compound Circles: Arms-Chase Poi-Opposites Wall Plane : In this example, the arms are both moving in one direction, while the poi are moving in opposite directions. The poi are on the same plane.

Compound circles have been the most "Jedi" of any kind of poi skill I have engaged with. I have been working on the compound opposites wall plane thingy since I took up poi, and it's STILL NOT AS CLEAN AS I'D LIKE IT TO BE!!! That makes it about 100 times more difficult than BTB 5beat weave + turns (based on how much time I've had to put into them compared to how well I can do them).

So, can we add compound circles to the Jedi Set? Huh? Can we?!? HUH? HUH????!!!!

peace,

nick


"They're interdimensional fractal intelligences. That's why they wear funny shoes."

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Glåss
DIAMOND Member since Nov 2001

Glåss

The Ministry of Manipulation
Location: Bristol

Total posts: 2523
Posted:phwoor nice one nik. how small a world we live in.
I was working on these a while back too, inspired by steve, dimitri and vienna

and I agree they're super triple hard bastards to get and to get clean. I forgot them before I got them solid solid. But I don't find them quite so hard as you. (mind you I think there are moves that everyone has a block with, for me its split time (opp direction) weaves ugh). think I might have played them with short poi for a bit and that really sorted it out.

Little circles on big circles, Straight out of The Great Book of Poi...

Try this non turning version
start Windmill coming down on the right
open out to great circle infront
1circle in front - left at 6 right at 12 oclock
next circle in front left at 3 right at 9
(this is where it links into your video and you can add in extra body turns etc)
next circle right at 6 left at 12 infront
straight back to windmill.
Its one of my favorites.

Well thanks for posting the videos, much better than describing with words
and thanks for reminding me of thse moves, they're cute, and I like your varitions, always groovy to see the subtel little flavour that other add to a move
I really like your name flowers though...
so thats the birth of the flower family

Richee, whatever. I find isolations really triple hard hard to get clean.

I've just noticed nick and my numbers
Peace
Drew


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coleman
SILVER Member since Aug 2002

coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay

Total posts: 7330
Posted:nick that stuff is gorgeous thank-you!
the timing on the opposites one is sick!

i've tried turning with this stuff before and got nothing but a sore head for my troubles.
soon though...

bluecat has come up with a wicked combination of flowers with airwraps (big circle, little circles on outside, mini circles in the middle).
he does a quick teaser on 'how to' (@ about 3:40), starting with a bit of the combo glass described above.


[secretly pleased that bumping this thread reaped such a cool new contribution )


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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bender
GOLD Member since Nov 2001

still can't believe it's not butter
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Total posts: 6979
Posted:quote:Originally posted by coleman:
[secretly pleased that bumping this thread reaped such a cool new contribution ) u aint the only one!
good wurk, nik!


Laugh Often, Smile Much, Post lolcats Always

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Meenik
SAPPHIRE Member since Nov 2001

Meenik

enthusiast
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada

Total posts: 272
Posted:Flowers are about skill, not tricks, to me. I could do flailing versions of most variations of flowers within a few weeks of starting to play with them, but they're not that interesting unless they're done very well, because it's about creating very specific shapes in the air.

To me, compound circles are about developing a base level of skill, where you're able to isolate and separate the movement of your poi, arms, and the turning of your body. Once you can do that, there are almost endless variations. I like this kind of poi practice because it seems to go a long way in developing basic full body coordination, which I guess is my goal in all this.

So, the easiest flower is to stand still, facing forwards, slowly rotating your arms forwards while the poi spin forwards. The hardest (I think) is to do opposites with the poi while the arms chase, while turning, with the poi on the same plane. To do this right, the poi have to keep meeting in the centre, so the poi that is spinning in the same direction as the arms has to be going a bit faster to keep meeting the other poi in the center.

Perhaps a few more video clips are in order. I'll isolate a few more variations of flowers and post them here.

Cheers to all,

nick

(oh, and I've put up a single undedited spin: Single Spin Closeup in case you're interested)



(Oh, and for what it's worth: My Yoda-Jedi-Master-Guy-Thingy says Jedi don't like "tricks." )

[ 15. May 2003, 11:37: Message edited by: Meenik ]


"They're interdimensional fractal intelligences. That's why they wear funny shoes."

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Glåss
DIAMOND Member since Nov 2001

Glåss

The Ministry of Manipulation
Location: Bristol

Total posts: 2523
Posted:YEEEha, yeea man.
Das Veeery GOOOOOOOD
really like the way you play dancing body movements and spiralling and the poi are just going on, around ya, but in really clean timing and planes.
That was/wasn't the music you were playing to?
Wicked
cool

Drew


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Glåss
DIAMOND Member since Nov 2001

Glåss

The Ministry of Manipulation
Location: Bristol

Total posts: 2523
Posted:Agree with nick.. anything with long arm circles, for me I think they feel soo much nicer when they are clean.

PS And I know your lying about what your jedi yoda master says. cos he woulda said:
Jedi Tricks...don't like.


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coleman
SILVER Member since Aug 2002

coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay

Total posts: 7330
Posted:quote:Originally posted by Meenik:
The hardest (I think) is to do opposites with the poi while the arms chase, while turning, with the poi on the same plane. To do this right, the poi have to keep meeting in the centre, so the poi that is spinning in the same direction as the arms has to be going a bit faster to keep meeting the other poi in the center. like i said, timing is sick on this
cheers for the vital info here man - playing with these again yesterday i couldn't work out how to tweak it to get them to keep passing in the center.

i still think it'll be a while before i get anything that looks close to that neat man.

1:19 has a nice 'wrist circle over the shoulder/long arm circle with the other arm' thing going on.
i only just discovered this stuff on tuesday night.

thank-you for giving us so much to play with and just late enough for it not to be impossible for us rainy country people to have a go too long arm technique just in time for summer (and its accompanying freedom to spin outside).


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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Meenik
SAPPHIRE Member since Nov 2001

Meenik

enthusiast
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada

Total posts: 272
Posted:OK ok... my Yodateacherguy actually said (and I quote): "Tricks... not for real jedi. drops the circles down the spine a real Jedi does. Hmmmmm? Hrmph." Then he whacked me for something.

I think that was the actual music. I just laid it over top again in Adobe Premiere, so it sounds clear. It's a track by Intergalactic Faerie Funk, friends of mine who now live in L.A.

I believe poi are like an abacus for movement. They help break movement down into math in a way. I'm quite suspicious that poi are my best bet for discovering my chi (if combined with tai-chi, yoga, and some other stuff I've picked up from other disciplines).

That's where it gets Jedi for me. I liked this thread when I saw it, because I believe that they train Jedi with poi at the academy. They're gateways to the ethereal planes of movement.

-nck


"They're interdimensional fractal intelligences. That's why they wear funny shoes."

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DJ Dantana
BRONZE Member since Aug 2001

veteran
Location: Stillwater, Ok. USA

Total posts: 1495
Posted:I concure. Poi are like the gateway drug of dance too.

we eat and we drink and we smoke and we try!

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The_Pirate_Dyke_Boy


The_Pirate_Dyke_Boy

HOP Lord of the Pirate Admiralty
Location: Canterbury, UK

Total posts: 1079
Posted:bump, bump, bump it up!

D.B.
X x X x X

Ship off the starboard! sound general quarters! noise and light discipline! man the cannons! GET ME THE RUM!

Master of the Free Hug Program

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DJ Dantana
BRONZE Member since Aug 2001

veteran
Location: Stillwater, Ok. USA

Total posts: 1495
Posted:hah! I thought this thread was dead forever...

we eat and we drink and we smoke and we try!

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DeepSoulSheep
GOLD Member since Sep 2002

DeepSoulSheep

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Berlin

Total posts: 2617
Posted:Well posting in it's not going to make it fall off the end faster...

I live in a world of infinite possibilities.

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flid
BRONZE Member since Aug 2002

flid

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Warwickshire

Total posts: 3136
Posted:I think this thread needs an update, it contains things which even i can do now

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Leatherblood


Leatherblood

member
Location: M-town

Total posts: 11
Posted:what about an opposite direction behind the back weave,

bones heal and chicks dig scars

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flid
BRONZE Member since Aug 2002

flid

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Warwickshire

Total posts: 3136
Posted:like a forwards btb? hardly a jedi move, unless it's 7 beat

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laZy
BRONZE Member since Aug 2003

member
Location: Somerset...... England

Total posts: 94
Posted:How about this.
7 beat weave.
Then get it into a wall plane going from front right to back right.
Move it across to front left to back left (without turning you body) then go back. On the way backwhen the poi spin in front of you go into a windmill for two beats
carry on to right side go into btb 5 beat (either way) go back to wall plane on back right and front right now cross over to the left on the crossover wack both poi behind you so that its the windmill but both are behind your back. now go into 7 beat on the left wall plane then to btb 5 beat. Does this make any sense?
If not i'm sorry
I can do this with every weave being five (reverse seven beat is hard!) but i'm sure theres someone who can do it with 7

Any way according to my mate when hewatches me do it it looks crazy

If I get a video thing i'll put it up.
laZy


as laZy as .....

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coleman
SILVER Member since Aug 2002

coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay

Total posts: 7330
Posted:i say there's no need to update - these moves were posted as some of the most techy of tech moves, and imho they still are.

the ideas have moved on a little since then admittedly but the original posts still apply i reckon...

fwd to rev 7bt weave, no wraps - a few ways to do this now it seems including the one quoted on the first page of this thread. still probably the ugliest no matter how you make it work

fwd to rev 5bt btb in wall plane - hard as f*ck i say. i still only know two people that spin it neatly. possibly superceded by the 7bt version but i've never seen that spun so i remain on the side of the 5bt until someone gets bendy enough to spin it with 7.

hyperloops - there's loads of them now but as far as i'm concerned they still remain in the 'most technical' section of anyone's poi repertoire.

fwd and rev double neck wraps - still not seen this done with fire. ever. nuff said.

isolations - fully isolated weave (where poi circles are consistantly smaller than hand circles) is full-on jedi in my world.


however, if new candidates were being considered my nominations would be:

inversions
often described with the phrase 'just buzzsaw everything', btb inverted ww is a good example of why i see them as some of the techiest of the tech moves. another example is the 5bt weave with 1bt inverted, referred to elsewhere as a 'buzzsaw weave' variation.


flowers
watch videos by meenik
by far the most beautiful trails i've witnessed to date.
the one i've found i just can't crack is the 4-petaled flower with poi rotating fwd, arms rev.

meenik - have you tried flowers with different numbers of petals...?
i've found six is a great number as you can choose the points on a standard fountain as your compound circle 'meeting points' (ie. the point where your hand is when the poi heads pass each other). i'm hoping one day that i can freeze one of the compound circles until the other catches up and then spin a fountain, then freeze the other leaving the first one behind and flow back into a 6 petal flower.
i can dream can't i?


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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bluecat


bluecat

geek, level 1
Location: everywhere

Total posts: 5300
Posted:hey!
ive done forwards doubleneck wrap on fire.... still too scred to try reverse tho...




Holistic Spinner (I hope)

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