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Glåss
Glåss

The Ministry of Manipulation
Location: Bristol
Member Since: 8th Nov 2001
Total posts: 2523
Posted:Throughout the world of poi there walk a breed aside from other moves. Many have claimed that they don’t exist, or that they did, but that they died out with some long lost tribe of poi masters, and now they are “just legends”. But, they exist, and not just in the fairy tales we tell young poisters and poiettes to make then scared of the bogie poi that live under their beds.

The Jedi set are the most technical of the most technical moves.
The Jedi set are the poi swinging moves which defy the known laws of the physical world.
For everyone of them, at the moment only a handful are known, is utterly a Jedi move.

Until recently the easiest known move in the the jedi set was a 5 beat weave to reverse 5 beat weave behind the back, preferably done in the wall plane. And yet some exciting new discoveries uncovered using the latest state of the are technology in archeopoilogy. New additions have been threatening to join the ranks of the Jedi set, The Eight Council of Poi demi-gods are currently in congress to determine the place if any of these exciting new finds which include 2 air wraps within the Jedi set.

Not everything is known of the origins of the Jedi set. But it is much hinted in pagan folklaw, that in days of old back in martober two mysterious men, possibly of a tribe of orangeness denoted by their attire met in a misty field in Clay-pham a small village near Londinium. And lo, One of them who may have been the legendary Jedi Tony Touch spaketh unto the other, (the ugly stupid one with poor personal hygiene) who is, it is rumoured to be a distant forefather of the author. (alas the lineage has never been proven).

“That move is utterly Jedi.”

And to the sounds of trumpets from between the legs of a chorus of angels, the Jedi set was gently placed by a large crane amongst the meeting of poiers.
And the quest began...

That was many moons ago, and little remains to document what happened in that original quest...


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arashi
arashi

Pooh-Bah
Location: austin,tx
Member Since: 21st Mar 2002
Total posts: 2363
Posted:it is totally possible to do them clean. they look sweet when tight. i can't even tell you how many times you're gonna untangle your chains doing this . you can do them from anywhere, once you get the idea down. try doing them like this... start with the bfly split to either side, not sure what to call this, sorry, as you bring the wicks inside, align your planes so that the hands are crossed, and the planes are still parallel. so they are not exactly in the same plane at first, but this is for training. get this down and you can do them straight ffrom bfly. the timing on this one is a bizitch. any way, after you do most of the revolutions of the wicks with your hands crossed, pull the hands apart exactly as far from each other as you want the hyperloop to be, depending on the length of your chains. the chains will tangle nice and pretty, now it's your job to figure out where you want to go to to get them out... the options are endless. you can wrap, or turn, but do it fast!

-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.

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arashi
arashi

Pooh-Bah
Location: austin,tx
Member Since: 21st Mar 2002
Total posts: 2363
Posted:p.s. after you pull your ahnds apart, try to feel the tangle happen, the moment the chains grab each other, you can give the hyperlooped wicks some extra momentum by using the tangle as a new point of force, so your point of pivot is in the middle of your hands. as you mess up, keep your eyes on how the tangle is tied, it is a picture of your mistake.

-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.

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coleman
coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay
Member Since: 29th Aug 2002
Total posts: 7330
Posted:cheers for the tips arashi. i can go straight into and out of these but they look all bouncy and floppy - compared to normal buzzsawed hyperloops (hl's) which look tight and smooth as fuck.

and i *really* don't like the fact that i don't understand why they come out 'backwards'.
your advice of "keep your eyes on how the tangle is tied, it is a picture of your mistake" is excellent. i plan to use a video and slow mo since neither myself nor my friend can spot *exactly* what is going on in there - the knot afterwards generally has twists in it other than just the one from the original mistake.
do you have any video of this move at all?
and have you ever pulled off a perfect example of this ie. forwards butterfly on right, hyperloop in, untangle out on left into reverse butterfly?

i'm still sceptical about how neat they will ever get - normal hl's keep tension in the string throughtout the move with four opposing points of force on the ends of the two tangled strings (the points change from the normal setup of a hand and a poi on each end of the string to the bizarre coupled system of hl's with a poi on each end of one line and a hand on each end of the other). the bf version however has two opposing hands feeding out from the tangle but the poi forces are not opposing - they pull the knot up and down with them, creating that boucy motion i was talking about.

ps. an easy way of expliaining how to get into this move: going from a butterfly into a buzzsawed butterfly - you notice you have to do one half of a ttn as you move inside. if you go directly in, the strings will tangle and you will have a hyperlooped butterfly


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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Richee
HOP librarian
Location: Prague
Member Since: 15th Jan 2002
Total posts: 1841
Posted:Coleman -I tell you They come out 'backwards':

You start with split time BF the go inside your hands and when they wrap together th main think happen,it looks like they are spining still like normal BF,but wrap chanche rotation and when you transferit to other side they unwrap and go backward.
Try this,its same misunderstanding:
Do BF infront of you with left over righ, then one(left)-handed,when you go back you can recover both poi,but one take you back to normal BF and the second to backward BF. ,BF hyperloop do something similar but through wrap.


POI THEO(R)IST

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DJ Dantana
veteran
Location: Stillwater, Ok. USA
Member Since: 15th Aug 2001
Total posts: 1495
Posted:something that helps a lot when learning new hyperloops is to have a partner help you. either have them hold the handles and you move the poi heads with your hands, or vise versa. That way you can go slow and figure out exactly what is happening.

we eat and we drink and we smoke and we try!

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coleman
coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay
Member Since: 29th Aug 2002
Total posts: 7330
Posted:richee - thank-you for the help. i didn't quite understand all you were saying - can you (or anyone that understands it better) explain this again please:

"Do BF infront of you with left over right, then one(left)-handed,when you go back you can recover both poi,but one take you back to normal BF and the second to backward BF."

santana - great advice man - this is how i worked out most of this move on tuesday night. the trouble with bf hl's is that the person holding the poi heads has to cross their arms (twice!) and you have to remember which poi is goin which way - obviously with normal hl's the poi just rotate the same way all through the move.

[ i hate being at work and talking about poi all day - i can't try anything until i get home at 7o'clock tonight. grr ]

EDIT:

okay, sorry richee - i do understand. are you saying if i go one-handed and swap which hand is holding which poi when i go back to two-handed, it changes which bf i am doing? if so, i understand this but the hyperloop never swaps your hands - even if you take a one-handed forwrds bf to the other side of your body and go back to the same hands, you *must* be in a rev bf - you will only go back into forwards if you take the opposite poi (to the one you put in) out of the hand.
please correct me if i am misinterpreting what you have said.

[ 20. December 2002, 04:08: Message edited by: coleman ]


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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Richee
HOP librarian
Location: Prague
Member Since: 15th Jan 2002
Total posts: 1841
Posted:Coleman you are right .I think when you go to BF hyperloop inside your hands you never swap your hands,but wrap do it. Bf hyperloops are very dificult to timing and as it is possible to do it side or inside with weave it must go with BFand when weave is split time BF must be split time too(I think yes)?

POI THEO(R)IST

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coleman
coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay
Member Since: 29th Aug 2002
Total posts: 7330
Posted:i can't do bf hyperloops split time yet.
it seems that the time available to cross the strings is very small but i may just be looking to do it in the wrong place (maybe this is the reason that i can only do bfhl's buzzsawed at the moment).

all my efforts have been with forwards, same time butterflies, crossing strings as the poi pass the tops of their circles.

all of them go inside my arms. i would love to see/hear about any variations apart from these cos i'm having trouble working any out apart from using reverse butterflies instead of forwards and sticking wraps in.

still have to do the slow mo on the swing through this to see what happens on the way out...


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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DJ Dantana
veteran
Location: Stillwater, Ok. USA
Member Since: 15th Aug 2001
Total posts: 1495
Posted:Oh man, I SO have the inside hyperloop butterfly. I made it my be-atch this weekend!

It isn't quite as imposible as i thought it was. i can even come out of it into a weave also (instead of just butterfly) because if you go realy slow, the poi stall in mid air, thus allowing you to make it a weave.

I go into it on the right, from a forward butterfly, turn to the right and come out of it after a 360 (from start).

[ 16. January 2003, 05:53: Message edited by: santanatwo ]


we eat and we drink and we smoke and we try!

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NYC
NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Member Since: 26th Aug 2001
Total posts: 9232
Posted:Hey guys... sorry for walking in to the middle of the conversation. I'm in the market for a new, semi advanced move. I'm not jedi yet but getting bored at my intermediate level. Unfortunately, this thread is a bit tough to read if you're not involved in the actual conversation.

Any chance for a new thread or aside on this thread of a "basic hyperloop instructions" or something pre-advanced for me to play with? I don't want to kill this conversation, it's just a bit over my head.

I guess I'd be grateful if there is an advanced move that one of you Masters could actually explain online. Even if it takes weeks of practice.

I'm thinking of the old days when kids like Bassman used to break down these advanced moves into posts I could actually comprehend.

-Me bein' greedy and lazy and out of the loop.


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

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coleman
coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay
Member Since: 29th Aug 2002
Total posts: 7330
Posted:i'll have a go and try and post later today but like most people i have a really hard time putting this poi stuff into words.

i'd be happy to email you some video later in the week if you have a good enough connection (it might even force me to get that slow mo thing done with the butterfly version).


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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DJ Dantana
veteran
Location: Stillwater, Ok. USA
Member Since: 15th Aug 2001
Total posts: 1495
Posted:ok, now attempting a comprehensive description of hyperloop butterfly.

forward butterfly, turn 90 degrees right as you bring them inside, the left hand and the right hand are sticking out away from you (stick your arms out). the poi chains cross at the bottom of the circle, and you allow one poi head (the left one) to pass inside after they are hyperlooped. now, turn body 180 degrees more to the right (move around the poi, just as much as the poi move around you, like you and the hyperloop center of the poiz are orbiting eachother). now, allow the right poi head to pass inside. Shift 90 degrees right, so you are facing original direction, and the poi chains will unwrap, at which point, you can resume a forward butterfly.

Important points...

the poi do not need lots of speed to complete this, as you can add momentum to the butterfly simply by moving your hands down then up together (offset from the beats of the poi). This give you the ability to go slower, and you can actually do the move so that the poi heads only rise to just above the hyperloop center. so it's like you are doing half a butterfly.... weird huh? The thing that allows this to happen is that you are moving around the poiz hyperloop center. (not the hyperloop center around you)

I didn't know this could be done without the 360 turn, but apparently it can. I know why, because they are wraping inside, and the left poi head travels up inside your arms (close to your face ) then you shift and turn your body to the left and reach around the poi with your right elbow, so that the right poi head passes inside, ths unwraps the chains and so you come out of it.


There, that is much better, sorryy about the errors in the description, it was an accident. I need to learn to not post descriptions untill I know I have it, rather than just thinking I have it right in my head.

[ 16. January 2003, 06:03: Message edited by: santanatwo ]


we eat and we drink and we smoke and we try!

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DJ Dantana
veteran
Location: Stillwater, Ok. USA
Member Since: 15th Aug 2001
Total posts: 1495
Posted:to continue with the butterfly hyperloop description, the one WITHOUT the 360 turn...

there are three different variations possible from a forward butterfly (and without a 360 turn involved)

#1 keep the planes mostly original. It starts a butterfly, hyperloop it inside on the right and allow just one poi head (the left poi head) to pass by your face (it will be moving upwards), move the hyperloop center to in front of yourself, then stick you right elbow out in front (to the right side of front, so that the right poi head passes inside your arms, close to your right elbow)

#2 This is a very strang one. It feels like the poi are doing something like a corkscrew, even though they are in a butterfly. It is like some sort of weird combination of a corkscrew and a butterfly. As you go into the butterfly hyperloop on the right (inside) you must make the poi planes intersect, right? Well, if you make the planes intersect at a slightly greater angle to eachother (the angle of intersect is about 10 degrees in description #1, here it is about 20 degrees. So, let the left poi pass inside (after they are hyperlooped) You then bring it back in front of you, but because you gave them a slight "corkscrew type" rotation, you will not have to move your body around the poi, the poi will move around you. This is diferent from the previouse, as in the previouse type YOU had to move around the poi.#2....so, to review, When you bring it back in front from the initial crossing of the chains, the butterfly planes are offset a little (from making the planes so that the poi chains will cross) and this lends the poi some "corkscrew character" even though they are still in butterfly mode. This is a good thing, as it allow the hyperloop to come undone simply by bringing it in front of yourself.


IMPORTANT CONCEPTS

This next text works best with the #1 version (keep the planes in butterfly character)

It is possible to keep the butterfly hyperlooped inside on the right for a few extra beats, but the chains get wraped up to short VERY quickly, so I think strings would work better for keeping it hyperlooped for extra inside beats.

You can also keep them in front after the hyperloop (indeffinitly), keep them going as long as you want, they will not get tangled. This is a similar concept as the inside buzzsaw hyperloop (weave version), except in that case you kept them INSIDE as long as you want. so they are opposites


When you bring the [bf hyp] in front, if you keep it outside, you can do extra beats, and then bring one inside to unwrap the hyperloop. It is more a matter of keeping the poi in the same plane and moving your body around the poi, so that one comes inside. Don't try and make one poi come inside by changing it's plane, instead move your body, so that the poi will come inside as a result of the plane it is traveling in.

"don't try to bend the spoon, that's imposible. Instead, try and realize the truth. There is no spoon. And then you will see that it is not the spoon you are bending, it is yourself." -Matrix

[ 16. January 2003, 06:29: Message edited by: santanatwo ]


we eat and we drink and we smoke and we try!

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DJ Dantana
veteran
Location: Stillwater, Ok. USA
Member Since: 15th Aug 2001
Total posts: 1495
Posted:I can turn a butterfly into a hyperloop corkscrew, and also something in-between a corkscrew hyperloop and a butterfly hyperloop

and there is also the normal butterfly hyperloop.
(where the planes stay "all butterfly")
weird huh?

[ 16. January 2003, 06:31: Message edited by: santanatwo ]


we eat and we drink and we smoke and we try!

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PK_
PK_

Lambretta Fanatic

Member Since: 20th Dec 2001
Total posts: 4991
Posted:erm.... i'm still lost in all of this now.

PK.

"To be an angel, one need not have wings.
In giving love there is an equal grace.
Nor need one seek the aura in the face,
As love unveils the beauty of all things."

*Francois Couperin.

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coleman
coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay
Member Since: 29th Aug 2002
Total posts: 7330
Posted:mr. tyler - that is some crazy shit!

to quote myself (which totals kind of a combination of begging whilst boosting my ego )...

quote:a picture is worth a thousand words and seein as avi's are @ 25fps just ten seconds of someone spinning is worth 250,000 words pk - *still* lost? when exactly did you lose the way...? anyway if i manage to get a map, i'll send it on to ya


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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PK_
PK_

Lambretta Fanatic

Member Since: 20th Dec 2001
Total posts: 4991
Posted:a map to my poi would be good, i havnt played much these past 2 months.
could you hide my sticks >


PK.

"To be an angel, one need not have wings.
In giving love there is an equal grace.
Nor need one seek the aura in the face,
As love unveils the beauty of all things."

*Francois Couperin.

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DJ Dantana
veteran
Location: Stillwater, Ok. USA
Member Since: 15th Aug 2001
Total posts: 1495
Posted:damn, i am so sorry, I made a technical error in my description above of a butterfly hyperloop. It is now corected.

we eat and we drink and we smoke and we try!

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arashi
arashi

Pooh-Bah
Location: austin,tx
Member Since: 21st Mar 2002
Total posts: 2363
Posted:geez, we all sound like addicts. i'm stuck on my toys too.

[santana remember when i said you're doing half, whole, half? this will help...]
do horizontal downward bfly, and hyperloop. now watch as the tangle undoes itself on the other side. this is the "one beat" if you will. one poi will flip back and forth from going over and under, cause when it goes from top of the circle to bottom, and through a tangle, it does a mirror image of itself, and the other wick will too, but you can make things easier in the one beat by having just one poi do the oblique drastic angles and the other staying in a fairly true course. trinities help make the poi _both_ go mirroring the same angle, thus keeping the wicks traveling in little fractals of the original triangular/non parallel plane. so, bfly hyperloops are really taken in half circle steps, and a properly done full circle is essentially just a pause, like you said they can be doubled up, the real beef happens in the half circles in between them. your current formula #1 is a tangle, a pause as you turn around/orbit, and an untangle. do a carry instead of the full circle and they will untangle on the next inside loop. you are still doing them in full circles, which works, and gives you good control of using the tangle to keep the poi moving, but are more than necessary to get out of it. also the direction of the turn affects the tangles, too. but props, man, "another case of starting the weave with the 5 beat" but that's good, cause the hard part is using the tangle as a new force fulcrum. now if we could all just get together in person and pass around some guiness

[ 16. January 2003, 06:42: Message edited by: arashi ]


-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.

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DJ Dantana
veteran
Location: Stillwater, Ok. USA
Member Since: 15th Aug 2001
Total posts: 1495
Posted:YES!!! I need to sip on a 40 RIGHT NOW!!!

Arashi, you are so right man, half circles are all that is neccisary. I can see it in my mind, I just haven't done it yet. I am "pausing" in-between wraping the [hyp bf] and unwraping the [hyp bf], I can even "pause" for two full circles (or infinite) because there is no "meat" in the pause. The beat (full circle) on the outside isn't neccisary, right?

If you will read my first description of [hyp bf] again, notice I make reference to going slow while doing a [hyp bf]. this makes it so you don't ever need to make a full circle, as the poi will stall just above the "force fulcrum" and begin to fall again, (just like swinging on a swing set, you go up and down, doing only half a full circle). As they come just above the force fulcrum (hyperloop center) you can shift your body arond to that your arm passes under a poi (as it stalls in mid air) this way the poi never reach above the halfway poi in the circle.

I don't think this is the same thing you are describing however (in mechanics of the wrap/unwrap) relating to full circles and half circles. In fact, I think it only works because I was turning withit, but there I go again, making statements befor I know what the heck I am talking about.


we eat and we drink and we smoke and we try!

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arashi
arashi

Pooh-Bah
Location: austin,tx
Member Since: 21st Mar 2002
Total posts: 2363
Posted:yeah, i'm doing this all in my head i should really go get my chains but i am already like an hour late for work. i am an addict the half whole thing was mostly for description. but i think we're on the same wavelength here.

dude, you wanna go all the way jedi... i left that thing about the wicks bouncing and switching direction in my first post on this thread for a reason. i can't do it well enough to perform or anything, but you can get out of the hyperloop by bouncing them and reversing direction inside the tangle. the key to getting the "bumper cars" to work lies in that same slowing down motion in the circle that you're talking about roght before impact, so really they are right around the corner. if you can do that, i'll personally line up in the "give daniel a foot massage" line...


-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.

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DJ Dantana
veteran
Location: Stillwater, Ok. USA
Member Since: 15th Aug 2001
Total posts: 1495
Posted:I am so sory I have made you guys wait so long for another video. Thank you for bearing with me. I promise, your patience will be rewarded soon

untill then, how about another brain twister.


first, notice that a butterfly and a corkscrew both share something in common. When viewed from the front, the poi go up and down together. it is just in a butterfly, they have no horizontal movement, and in a corkscrew they do. Well, as you do a hyperloop butterfly, make the poi spin in a horizontal circle just befor the {hyp bf} begins. (just befor the chains touch, move your right handtowards you and to the left, and move your left hand away from you and towartds the right, this will make the poi spin in a clockwise circle as viewed from above. Now, here come the tricky part. The poi will now be hyperlooped and moving in a spiral, yet they will also have upwards momentum left over from the butterfly. Use this upwards momentum, and allow the left poi head to pass inside your arms, (the left arm is held slightly higher) and the upwards momentum will cary the poi above your arms and they wil do a full circle above, then the upwards momentum runs out, and they move downwards, but still in a spiral (corkscrew) they do a full circle under your arms, at which point they "bounce upwards again" (either by you pulling the fulcrum up, or just due to residual butterfly momentum) and the right poi head passes inside your arms, thus unwraping the hyperloop. At this point the poi can be returned to a regular butterfly (or, you can continue with a corkscrew)

I will probably end up revising this soon, to make it more accurate.

Till next time


we eat and we drink and we smoke and we try!

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arashi
arashi

Pooh-Bah
Location: austin,tx
Member Since: 21st Mar 2002
Total posts: 2363
Posted:
i hope so cuz i have no idea what that meant
[allright, dude, let's get together tonight and work this stuff out, huh?]


-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.

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DJ Dantana
veteran
Location: Stillwater, Ok. USA
Member Since: 15th Aug 2001
Total posts: 1495
Posted:there's a line !?!?! Why doesn't anybody tell me these things

Actually, what i realy need is a back massage, I work hard all day
Non-Https Image Link
and being a lab rat isn't easy.


we eat and we drink and we smoke and we try!

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DJ Dantana
veteran
Location: Stillwater, Ok. USA
Member Since: 15th Aug 2001
Total posts: 1495
Posted:You going to drive up to Stillwater ? Or did you mean on the phone!?!? I hope you aren't pulling my leg man , as I would be very happy to spin poi with yo, so we can see what is possible with this hyperloop stuff. Seriousely though, I think we need to get together in person and play with some poi. The future of mankind may depend on it.

we eat and we drink and we smoke and we try!

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PK_
PK_

Lambretta Fanatic

Member Since: 20th Dec 2001
Total posts: 4991
Posted:end of the world more like if you guys get together only kidding, it woud be pretty facinating to see what combo's you guys come up with next.

PK.

"To be an angel, one need not have wings.
In giving love there is an equal grace.
Nor need one seek the aura in the face,
As love unveils the beauty of all things."

*Francois Couperin.

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DJ Dantana
veteran
Location: Stillwater, Ok. USA
Member Since: 15th Aug 2001
Total posts: 1495
Posted:

What, me worry?


we eat and we drink and we smoke and we try!

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Richee
HOP librarian
Location: Prague
Member Since: 15th Jan 2002
Total posts: 1841
Posted:Its realy good to see how energize are you...like when the life of your Poi begun GOOD WORK!!!

I hope till next two month I'll buy vid.camera and finally do some clips and normaly join home of Poi...


POI THEO(R)IST

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DJ Dantana
veteran
Location: Stillwater, Ok. USA
Member Since: 15th Aug 2001
Total posts: 1495
Posted::::goes home to film some SHIZ-NIT:::

won't be to much longer, I promise.


we eat and we drink and we smoke and we try!

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DJ Dantana
veteran
Location: Stillwater, Ok. USA
Member Since: 15th Aug 2001
Total posts: 1495
Posted:Ok, I got it filmed, (spun untill my fingers bled, was the summer of '69) now all I need to do is download it onto my computer, edit, put music to it, and upload it to the web site....(or email it to the people who can't wait that long, you know who you are )

I got every hyperloop I know, in a row, with no mistakes

On another subject, I have this feeling in the back of my mind, that there is a whole world of hyperloop stuff. A feeling that we are barely scratching the surface of this. Like, they are there, and obviousely so, after you see it. (hindsight 20/20?)


we eat and we drink and we smoke and we try!

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