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MrConfused
BRONZE Member since Jan 2002

MrConfused

addict
Location: I wish I knew

Total posts: 529
Posted:I've seen it mentioned a couple of times. Can anyone describe it for me?

Is it where you stand side on to a weave and have the poi circle in front, behind on one side, back in front, behind on your other side? Sort of swapping between forwards and reverswe weave as you go?

J


If you're not confused, you're not thinking about things hard enough.

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Posted:Its like a 4-beat Windmill, but under your arm around your back

Easy to learn, cause you can start with cheating (wrapping) it then move up to doing non-wrap variety.

I think turning WW can look wicked...

but I havent got it as smooth as Sage or Kato yet.

Josh


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Dragon7
GOLD Member since Oct 2003

Dragon7

addict
Location: Aotearoa (NZ)

Total posts: 625
Posted:Why did i only just find this?!? and why did it suddenly make sence? confused

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DJ Dantana
BRONZE Member since Aug 2001

veteran
Location: Stillwater, Ok. USA

Total posts: 1495
Posted:it's old school baby, yea...

IF you had bought the COL videos like I told you to, you would have known all this a long time ago...


Sith lord deserves a spanking!

Glass, can you help out? I'm a little to busy right now to fly to NZ.


we eat and we drink and we smoke and we try!

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Stone
GOLD Member since Jun 2001

Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne

Total posts: 2830
Posted:To answerer your questions Dragon7,

Perhaps its because the wasit-wrap is the lower half of the full fountain, aka lower fountain smile

old skool rocks DJ wink


If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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ShawnF


member
Location: Springfield, MA - USA

Total posts: 162
Posted:BTW, for anyone still confused, the book Modern Club Swinging and Pole Spinning is online and has a chapter for waist wraps:
http://www.semlyen.net/cosmosjugglers/lib/contents.htm
br>
I think there's also illustrations in the Poi Book:
http://www.poispinning.com/
br>
Cheers,
Shawn


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Atacan(aka muaddip)
SILVER Member since Oct 2003

Atacan(aka muaddip)

stranger
Location: Seattle / WA / USA

Total posts: 18
Posted:There are two movies post by Orbit and PK showing the BTB waistwrap, and I figured out how it works. But I am still confused about the BTB waistwrap butterfly.

To be more specific in BTB WW BF is there a BTB BF before going from left to right and vice versa.

thanks.

P.S: Any movie showing BTB WW BF (in loop prefered) is greatly appreciated.


_ __ _
atacan

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rohan
SILVER Member since Apr 2005

rohan

newbie
Location: FAB Cafe, Leeds

Total posts: 7
Posted:aww man!! this post really confused me!! i went home last night and checked it out in that poi book by michal kahn and it made a lot of sense... she explains it using hip-mill (which i basically understand as a 2beat weave in the wall plane) circle in front, hip-mill on the other side and then a carry over the head.
so yeah... kinda like a (2beat??) fountain with a carry instead of another circle..

hm, think ive added unneccacsarily to this as everyone seems to have reached an agreement about what it is.

has anyone got any more ideas on how to b^stardise it??


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THE GRAYS HOPE TO WIN.
RAINBOW NEEDED URGENTLY
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Zapatista National Liberation Army

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coleman
SILVER Member since Aug 2002

coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay

Total posts: 7330
Posted:this is gold:

Written by: Glss

meantime practice these 8 moves:
2 beat weave under your arm in the wall plane, both directions under either arm.
if coming from the front, then when on the left, when the left hand is BTB, the palm is facing up, (like fred flintstone) and same for right on the right. easy practice for front waste wrap, thats the first 4

the second 4 are....
maaahaa
Warm up. NO I REALLY MEAN THAT
STRETCH ARMS AND SHOULDERS
when your learning this bit

Same 4 moves as above, poi in exaclty same places doing the same moves, but instead of reaching across the front to have right arm on the left, reach BTB

This is still in the wall plane, don't need to twist body, much more reachy than BTB Weave



if you can do all these, you should be able to do any ww you like with turns at just about any point.

as for messing around with these, once you can spin circles solidly in the ww positions, you can really mess around with the bits you have learnt.
learn to fit shoulder circles in and play with double carries:
a double carry is basically a big circle going all the way round your body - with a poi in right hand from say behind right hip, the poi would travel past your feet towards your left hip [youturn180], from beside right hip, past face to behind left hip.
another double carry would be; left hand poi spinning behind right hip - poi comes from behind, past right foot, up past left hip, behind left hip (poi passing behind head) to left hand in btb ww position at right hip poi in front.
simultaneous carries rock, especially if you double or triple them up (tonnes more scope to this stuff when you start spinning round).

smile


cole. x


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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Orbit
SILVER Member since Dec 2003

Orbit

enthusiast


Total posts: 270
Posted:Just found this thread... Here are links to my video on the BTB WaistWrap:

Small (file size) version:
http://orbit.harm.org/Spinning/WaistWrap/WaistWrapDemoSM.wmv
br>
Big version:
http://orbit.harm.org/Spinning/WaistWrap/WaistWrapDemoLG.wmv
br>
Pay attention to the position of the feet... you can cheat a bit by moving your feet so that it's almost like a BTB weave turn. I tried to do a bunch of different variations in terms of positioning the feet (that is, which foot is in front).

Ooh. Now I'm realizing you can also look at the shoulders. When you're reaching across, dipping your shoulder down a bit helps your arm reach a bit farther.

Hope this helps!


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shen shui
SILVER Member since Jan 2005

shen shui

no excuses. no apologies.
Location: aotearoa

Total posts: 1799
Posted:yeah i've been doing what nic just described...



weaving from forward to reverse btb except in frontal plane.. so 3 beats in front on left (starting with RHP) then 3 BTB then 3 on right (starting with LHP).



is this a waist wrap too? i figured it was.. just a more complex version of the 2 beat variety. but now i wonder if its not.



so whats the deal, folks?



edit: wow just realised how old nic's post was, and that i was on the wrong page. sorry. redface



2nd edit: so these wasit wraps are just 2 beat btb weave transitions, then? of course, wrapping around to the front using the frontal plane.



so whats it called when its 3 beat? is that still a WW? or is it something... more?

EDITED_BY: shen shui (1115296919)


those that know, dont say. those that say, dont know.

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coleman
SILVER Member since Aug 2002

coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay

Total posts: 7330
Posted:depends how you want to define waistwraps really todd.



if ww means to you "any move that involves an arm btb with poi in front wallplane" then yes, your move is a 3bt ww smile



if your definition requires that there be a carry in the move somewhere, then no it wouldn't (ww's are all even beat moves in this case) smile



i learnt the fwd to rev btb 3bt weave in wallplane but it doesn't feel as nice to me without the carries which allow for some lovely entrances into pirouettes and allow a smoother mix of front and btb ww's.



i think senor dom does fwd to rev btb 5bt weave in wallplane.

its pretty smile





cole. x


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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Stone
GOLD Member since Jun 2001

Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne

Total posts: 2830
Posted:Hi Orbit, thanks for taking the time to post your waist wrap video. Great moves by you and your friends. I really liked some of your variations cool But, I'm going to weigh in to the ww debate.



I think you were correct in the title, when you stated that the video was technically btb waist wrap. Because the btb stuff is ww, even if the carry is rushed, But the in-front stuff is really a three-beat weave in wall plane.



For the in-front ww, try it with the right hand leading to the right. This means the right goes behind the right hip first, and the left follows.



cheers smile

EDITED_BY: Stone (1115303569)


If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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Dragon7
GOLD Member since Oct 2003

Dragon7

addict
Location: Aotearoa (NZ)

Total posts: 625
Posted:I ubblove how there are sooooo many different ways to do it!

Even if someone says "technically thats NOT WW". Because iv been working on Giant or long arm ww. To call it WW is wrong but the movements are the same and there are no other words to explain what you are doing so you just have to use what words you can. smile

One way of explaining what im up to would be to say "try a ttn WW but use your arms like your punching, keeping the poi in btb plane and then shifting to the front wall plane, with however many "carries" in between before shifting to the other side of your body" So instead of the hands being at the hips you would streach them out like your pointing to your side, while the poi stay "IN" normall WW plane btb.

Looks sick on video and makes some crazy patterns. biggrin

I think the guys who named fountains and WW etc messed it up frown when they :

A) didnt define it enough

B) didnt contemplate that people would variate it sooo much that it would need another word

Either way its interesting just thinking about all the different ways, specially with ttn. So many ideas... wow


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Orbit
SILVER Member since Dec 2003

Orbit

enthusiast


Total posts: 270
Posted:Dr4g0n7, I think that you're dealing with a bunch of other wall plane variations which are not the specific waist wrap itself... Matt (poi poi poi) does a bunch of these in the Spherculism tutorial vids that aren't up right now, including one he calls the impossible weave (4bt ttn in front to 4bt ttn in back)

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Stone
GOLD Member since Jun 2001

Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne

Total posts: 2830
Posted:Some interesting points dragon7, Ill have to try a ttn ww eek

I dont know who named them fountains, but Schatz, published in 1908, didnt call them waist wraps. He called them fountains, as in lower front and lower back, upper and full fountain. He didn't like the fancy names either. They all join up biggrin and are the start, not the end for lots of variations. The variations are up to individual, like the variations Orbit does for example.

cheers smile


If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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shen shui
SILVER Member since Jan 2005

shen shui

no excuses. no apologies.
Location: aotearoa

Total posts: 1799
Posted:cole, thanks, bro.. that clears it up.. once again words fail to adequately describe the movements (which are worth a thousand pictures... wink )

orbit, wow! 4bt ttn btb!

yay!


those that know, dont say. those that say, dont know.

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Orbit
SILVER Member since Dec 2003

Orbit

enthusiast


Total posts: 270
Posted:well, now that I think about it, not so much btb, but rather to one side... or actually I think he turned... so that it was more like 4bt tnt to the left and then to the right. I suppose if it's behind your back, but all to one side, it would be more under-the-arm? Anyhow, not quite as techy as you're imagining but really smooth and beautiful.

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shen shui
SILVER Member since Jan 2005

shen shui

no excuses. no apologies.
Location: aotearoa

Total posts: 1799
Posted:aaahhhh... riiiight.

i thought you meant that the RH was coming around from the R and the LH was coming around from the L, like a BTB BF or something..

but both on one side, i'm not going to gasp so much... wink

still.... going to have to figure out that 4beat TTN BTB, regardless...!!

biggrin

hug


those that know, dont say. those that say, dont know.

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bender
GOLD Member since Nov 2001

still can't believe it's not butter
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Total posts: 6979
Posted:hey guys! just printing off this thread and wanted mention on the printout that snowpeas don't just taste good, they are good for you!!

Laugh Often, Smile Much, Post lolcats Always

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Drudwyn


Drudwyn

Forget puppy power, Scrappy's just gay
Location: Southampton Uni

Total posts: 632
Posted:Woot! I got the F WW down solid now. 123-carry, in both directions. Right, now to try the BTB one. Can anyone tell me how you get from one to another? Do you simply do the carry and turn 180 so your poi come down behind you?

Oh yeah, Poise (the old name for club spinning) and Poi... that's too much of a coincidence :P


Spin, bounce, be one with the world, because it is yours to enjoy...

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Drudwyn


Drudwyn

Forget puppy power, Scrappy's just gay
Location: Southampton Uni

Total posts: 632
Posted:Right. I've been trying to figure out how to do a btb waistwrap, and I've got more bruises on my chest than I thought possible! I've hit myself more times doing this trick than with any other! BTB 3 beat, not a problem, front waist wrap, no problem, but as soon as I go from the carry to a arm over back front waist circle, my poi changes planes and swings into my chest! I've gone through chapter 17 (the club swingers one), and I can do it with clubs, but as soon as I pick up my poi, smack, straight into my chest. I'm using socks (as my flags are too heavy and hurt even more when I get it wrong) which does limit my reach slightly, but it's only on my right side, with my left hand coming across the back.

Can anyone help me?

Woof.


Spin, bounce, be one with the world, because it is yours to enjoy...

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[Nx?]
BRONZE Member since Mar 2017

[Nx?]

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both

Total posts: 3749
Posted:yeah, twist your hips,loads more room then.

T wave

oh, and if your still having problems then mess your planes up a little to get it.


This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti

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fluffy napalm fairy


fluffy napalm fairy

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Brum / Dorset / Fairy Land

Total posts: 3638
Posted:No! Don't twist your hips....... (imo) cos that means your doing it more 'btb' and less 'wall plane btb'



Imo- practice the move with just your left hand and as it comes across your back lift your hand upwards (with the flow of the carry/circle you're making) to give you a littlemore time to control it's plane.



If your hand is lower, the plane will bemore stressed.

If your hand moves gently up your back as you make the transition the planes will follow more easily and naturally.



ubbrollsmile


Geologists do it in the dirt................ spank

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animatEd
BRONZE Member since Aug 2004

animatEd

1 + 1 = 3
Location: Bristol UK

Total posts: 3540
Posted:I tend to stick my chest and my ass out as I do it...

That way there's a nice place for my arms to go across my back... I find twistnig a little helps, but then I'm not the best at BTB...


Empty your mind. Be formless, Shapeless, like Water.
Put Water into a cup, it becomes the cup, put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle, put water into a teapot, it becomes the teapot.
Water can flow, or it can Crash.
Be Water My Friend.

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spiralx


spiralx

veteran
Location: London, UK

Total posts: 1376
Posted:Make sure that on the hand that is reaching across BTB the back of your hand is facing towards your body.

"Moo," said the happy cow.

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[Nx?]
BRONZE Member since Mar 2017

[Nx?]

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both

Total posts: 3749
Posted:I recon twist the hips to learn, and then with practice you will come straighter.

but thats just my way, i twisted at the beggining and dont now. so its perfectly possible to learn without.

T wave


This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti

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shen shui
SILVER Member since Jan 2005

shen shui

no excuses. no apologies.
Location: aotearoa

Total posts: 1799
Posted:i like the carry in the 2bt ww but feel that 3bt ww looks better (and have had this confirmed by others, too).. and i think it Feels better, too...
what ya'all think about them apples?


those that know, dont say. those that say, dont know.

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coleman
SILVER Member since Aug 2002

coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay

Total posts: 7330
Posted:well for me, if it doesn't have a carry, i don't call it a waistwrap.

but i like oranges and apples so it makes little difference wink

and that's some good advice there fairy hug


cole. x


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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Drudwyn


Drudwyn

Forget puppy power, Scrappy's just gay
Location: Southampton Uni

Total posts: 632
Posted:I think my problem is my carry over my back from left to right, as that would explain why my poi are changing planes. However, has anyone got any tips on how to increase my reach? If I use my flags, it means my fingertips can reach round and control the spin so it doesn't hit me, but with socks, I don't have the reach.

Right, I'll give it a try this evening, and see if I can pull it off. Unfortunaetly, after that, I have no idea what I'm going to learn next >,<


Spin, bounce, be one with the world, because it is yours to enjoy...

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Drudwyn


Drudwyn

Forget puppy power, Scrappy's just gay
Location: Southampton Uni

Total posts: 632
Posted:WHooooo! I finally cracked it! It was the carry over my back. I was dragging my poi at an angle across my back and then didn't have the space to change the planes when I had my arm across my back.

Right, now I've cracked the btb ww, how do I go from if to btb, and how many beats has the full waist wrap got? I can do the if ww in both directions, but the btb in only one (at the moment),

Is it one if, then at the carry throw my hand behind to do one btb, before carrying back to the start again?


Spin, bounce, be one with the world, because it is yours to enjoy...

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Page: 1234

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