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MrConfused
BRONZE Member since Jan 2002

MrConfused

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Location: I wish I knew, United Kingdom

Total posts: 529
Posted:I've seen it mentioned a couple of times. Can anyone describe it for me?

Is it where you stand side on to a weave and have the poi circle in front, behind on one side, back in front, behind on your other side? Sort of swapping between forwards and reverswe weave as you go?

J


If you're not confused, you're not thinking about things hard enough.

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Stone
GOLD Member since Jun 2001

Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Total posts: 2830
Posted:Oops, didn't mean to upset the apple cart.

I think glass's, 123-carry, really is the whole move. It's certainly a very good description and the move works well.

Maybe it is time to update the other description? Not saying anything about fountains, even if it sounds like a fountain

[ 24 October 2002, 01:21: Message edited by: Stone ]


If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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Glåss
DIAMOND Member since Nov 2001

Glåss

The Ministry of Manipulation
Location: Bristol, United Kingdom

Total posts: 2523
Posted:eh up stone your gonna love this....

Probably Gonna have to count fountains as more of a family of moves nowdays, than just one single.
but Its a long post, and currently I'm working on some much more interesting posts.
not all the stuff I posted about fountains before is confirmed, Its all a bit more complex than that. (not the move, but the why and wherefor.)


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Stone
GOLD Member since Jun 2001

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Location: Melbourne, Australia

Total posts: 2830
Posted:glass, now I'm completely lost But I'm (we're) sure looking forward to some interesting posts in the future. Catch ya

Wish I could get that DivX thingy to work.


If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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Stone
GOLD Member since Jun 2001

Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Total posts: 2830
Posted:found me way again. I think the easiest way to look at, is that the waist wrap is real foundation move. And you can link a lot these moves (wirst wraps, weaves, fountains etc.) up together for a myriad of combinations.

I hope this doesen't sound conceited, but keep an eye on the club thread and I'll have a go at the fountain family sometime soon. I really need to sort em out. Cheers


If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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coleman
SILVER Member since Aug 2002

coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kin...

Total posts: 7330
Posted:i think i'm getting really confused now! i could really do with some clarification please

i'll give one example to explain as an answer for this one i can translate to all the others.

if i am doing a ww starting with forwards 2-beat on my right-hand side with my right hand (doing the fred flintstone thing behind me) going over the top of my left...

1. which hand would go over the top when moving from the front circles to behind? at the moment my left goes over the top and follows my right into the carry on the way back.

2. am i supposed to be doing the fred flintstone thing with my left too hand in this case? it feels *really* awkward this way and doesn't seem to stop me having to turn my body more to the left than i do when the poi are on my right.

i think i'm okay but i can't get the btb stuff and it made me question whether i'm doin anything right.

any help would reap muchos hugz


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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Stone
GOLD Member since Jun 2001

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Location: Melbourne, Australia

Total posts: 2830
Posted:Hi coleman, perhaps I'm not the best person to answer, but here's my ideas on the waist wrap (123-carry).

To the right, lead with the right. Do the first circle, a lower back circle on the right hand side with your right hand. The left hand goes under the right for a lower back circle, as right comes to the front (first circles).

Your right hand comes out and starts the circles in front, the left follows (second circles).

The right starts a lower back on the left hand side, the left follows (third circles).

The right comes out followed by the left for the carry. Then start sequence again.

Hope I got that right Good luck

ie. to the right lead with the right hand.

[ 06 November 2002, 15:02: Message edited by: Stone ]


If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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coleman
SILVER Member since Aug 2002

coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kin...

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Posted:stone - that's great, thank-you.

just checked this out (in the sick room @ work!) and this is what i do. was thinking about it loads last night without any poi - just laid down, had a smoke and visualised it.
i came to the conclusion that if i was doing the circles correctly (as you described) and my right was over the top on my right, it *must* go under on the left.

like you say the right leads all the way through and this is exactly what i needed to know!

cheers


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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DJ Dantana
BRONZE Member since Aug 2001

veteran
Location: Stillwater, Ok. USA

Total posts: 1495
Posted:Is this all something similar to what sage did on COL2 and what Kato did on COL3 ????

like doing a sideways weave (fountain) and taking it behind the back all the way around to where the arm wraps around the waist to bring the poi in front?


we eat and we drink and we smoke and we try!

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Stone
GOLD Member since Jun 2001

Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Total posts: 2830
Posted:That's great coleman The sick room, ha.

santanatwo, I can’t remember wot's on the col videos and I’m starting to get out on my depth here.

So, these are two-beat club moves, and I’m not saying anything about fount**ns, in this thread. But yeah, when ya doing the circles on the right, as above, just take your left hand around your back and ya be doing btb waist wraps. Two circles in front, on the left? and take em up high and see wot happens


If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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DJ Dantana
BRONZE Member since Aug 2001

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Location: Stillwater, Ok. USA

Total posts: 1495
Posted:ok, so I tried to learn it last night. I can do a back waist wrap fountain (do waste wrap on both sides WITHOUT a beat of low windmill) with the poi going clockwise. I can also do a front waist wrap, but those are easy.

This is all totaly new to me. When I saw Sage do it I was flabergasted, then I saw Kato do it, and I was stuned. So I thought it was like imposible, or that you had to be double jointed to do it. Or have extra long arms. But I learned it in an hour, after a little one hand practice. So it must not be THAT hard. (of course I can already do the BTB fountain, so my perspective of hard may be high)

So, Am I suposed to bring them up or something...?
I heard glass say something about a family of 50 moves Well I only know eight. clockwise left front right front left back right back anticlockwise left front right front left back right back

all at the low windmill level. I supose you could include a windmill in the middle in order to add two more, so thats ten. so, what else can you do with it?

I think I am still confused as to what a hyperloop and a carry are.
PLEASE HELP!!!

and I can't get the Glass video to work, WP just plays the audio but I'm not going to give up!!!


we eat and we drink and we smoke and we try!

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MrConfused
BRONZE Member since Jan 2002

MrConfused

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Location: I wish I knew, United Kingdom

Total posts: 529
Posted:As far as I can tell without seeing one, the carry is where the poi go from behind on one side of the body (in the wall plane, this is) to behind on the other side of the body, without a full rotation in front. Sort of 180 degrees of a circle in front before going behind again. The same hand is leading throughout the move. If I'm wrong, I'm sure someone will step in and say so.
I'm not entirely sure what you mean by fountain - are you talking about a weave in the wall plane? If so, that's similar to what I understand to be a waist wrap, but not quite the same.

I would also like to know where all the others in the family come from. Glass?
I suppose there's clockwise in front and behind with top carry and bottom carry, and anticlockwise in front and behind with top carry and bottom carry (8 there) and then adding extra beats, which should double that, but that's only 16. Where do the others come from?

J


If you're not confused, you're not thinking about things hard enough.

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DJ Dantana
BRONZE Member since Aug 2001

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Location: Stillwater, Ok. USA

Total posts: 1495
Posted:I was calling it a fountain waist wrap because I do the waist wrap on both sides without a beat of low windmill in-between (while doing the back waist wrap) It does look simmilar to a sidewase weave, but I don't think it is exactly like it...

we eat and we drink and we smoke and we try!

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coleman
SILVER Member since Aug 2002

coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kin...

Total posts: 7330
Posted:tee hee! methinks someone opened a BIG can of worms here...

*sits back smug in the knowledge that i'm still a novice and won't need to worry about all these variations for a long LONG time*

santanatwo - hyperloops then are just airwraps done about halfway down the poi string. i think

remember i'm sticking with my novice status and am always open to correction from any JIT that can spare the time.

(jedi's-in-training if ya didn't get it already)


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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fluffy napalm fairy


fluffy napalm fairy

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Brum / Dorset / Fairy Land

Total posts: 3638
Posted:Hyperloops are not essential in waistwraps. They're an added super-stylee for variation.

The CARRY is what makes the waistwrap different from a fountain that just skips about on the wall plane from btb on each side.

If you are doing a non btb waistwrap (weave as opposed to butterfly) anticlockwise starting on the left of your body:

The carry comes when you go back to the beginning to repeat the move.
1) poi go under left arm (in wall plane, so they go behind the shoulder line)
2) poi go from under left arm to front of body
3) poi finish rotation in front and on the upswing go under right arm
4) THE CARRY
As poi complete the rotation under the right arm, on the upswing they come out in front and the downswing is back under the left arm again.
So the poi are 'carried' over to the other side.
This is (as far as I know) the description of a TOP Carry.

You can do top and bottom carries in clockwise and anticlockwise in front of you and btb. Not sure how you get to 50 moves though

ps. I can do lots of waistwraps, but I may have missed the point in your question and described the wrong thing. I'm not the brightest spark.... You have to see them to understand methinks.


Geologists do it in the dirt................ spank

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fluffy napalm fairy


fluffy napalm fairy

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Brum / Dorset / Fairy Land

Total posts: 3638
Posted:do it btb. the beats come naturally and the carry just happens - it seems normal. I learned it btb first.

Geologists do it in the dirt................ spank

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DJ Dantana
BRONZE Member since Aug 2001

veteran
Location: Stillwater, Ok. USA

Total posts: 1495
Posted:I am probably doing it, or can do it, bu ti just am still not getting it . But thank you for trying

we eat and we drink and we smoke and we try!

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fluffy napalm fairy


fluffy napalm fairy

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Brum / Dorset / Fairy Land

Total posts: 3638
Posted:no problem

Geologists do it in the dirt................ spank

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Stone
GOLD Member since Jun 2001

Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Total posts: 2830
Posted:Ok, I gotta ask, wot's a carry?

I use to think it was small or large arm circle pass, which is what I have been doing.

I re-read the original description, and now I'm inclined to think it could be a X shape or something. Which would make sense, as there seems to be one there.

Thanks


If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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Nic


member
Location: Cape Town, South Africa

Total posts: 18
Posted:Glass, i do something which i think might be a type of waist wrap, i'll describe and can you tell me if it is?

I do BTB crossflow (dunno if you call it the same thing but its just BTB weave to reverse BTB weave in wall plane (which, by the way, i assume just means poi swinging parallel to your shoulders?)) Anyway then as poi come round behind my back to my left side i go through the weave behind my back on the left and pass it across my body so i do another 3 beats of the weave in front of my body, also on the left (with left hand at left side and right hand reached behind my back and also on left side).

Is this a type of waist wrap? I haven't got it down on my right yet but when i do i'll be able to switch from side to side, like a normal crossflow but with poi weaving both sides of my body (front and back) on either side (right and left).

Will appreciate your insight.


Gooi nat, or don't gooi at all.*Nic*

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coleman
SILVER Member since Aug 2002

coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kin...

Total posts: 7330
Posted:quote:Originally posted by Stone:
Ok, I gotta ask, wot's a 'carry'?okay, i get what waistwraps are now so i'll try and clear this up with a super detailed one arm description of the waistwrap circles and carry.

the carry part of the waistwrap (ww) happens when going back from left-to-right or vice versa. it is a half-circle done in front if you are doing normal ww's or behind if you are doing btb.

example. with your right arm starting behind on your right hand side (rhs) spinning forwards (from calf, up back, past shoulder and down to calf again)...

do one circle behind (poi goes from right shoulder behind, down to the calf and up again to the shoulder).
as poi passes the shoulder, move poi in front of you and do another circle (poi passes right shin goes round and passes left shin) with hand by your belly button.
as poi passes your left shin move it behind on your lhs and do last circle (poi goes from left shin in front round, past left shoulder to left calf behind).
THE NEXT BIT IS A TOP CARRY.
the poi goes from your left calf up and in front of you then directly behind to your right calf.
*it only does half a circle in front*
ie the poi travels from your left calf behind you, to up past your left shoulder in front, across your body in front, past your right shoulder in front and directly down behind to your right calf.
this brings you back to the start.

i don't see an 'x' and the carry is not done in parallel - its all split time.

nic - i don't claim to be a guru on this but i think what you are describing is forwards to backwards three beat weave btb in the wall plane. lovely move and sort of a natural follow-on/lead-up to the ww.

ww's (as far as i know) are all two beat moves and include the carry as described above.

somebody please stop me if i'm chatting sh*t.
it all made sense while i was typing...


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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Stone
GOLD Member since Jun 2001

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Location: Melbourne, Australia

Total posts: 2830
Posted:quote:It is a half-circle done in front if you are doing normal ww's or behind if you are doing btb.Thanks coleman, that’s great. I was doing the half circles, then I thought “carry”, hmmm, perhaps there is a bit more to it. Perhaps a variation?

Glad to see I’m not the only one getting confused by all these weaves, waistwraps and crossflows (not mentioning fountains). It’s all good though.

Think you are correct with the 3-beat vs. waist wrap definition.

Cheers


If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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coleman
SILVER Member since Aug 2002

coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kin...

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Posted:stone - if you go here and click on the 'Clubswinging with Sharon and Kati' link there is a nice video explanation of a 12 point fountain.

i might just post this in a new thread ya know...


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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Stone
GOLD Member since Jun 2001

Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Total posts: 2830
Posted:Hey thanks coleman, I enjoyed watching the video.

Think I'll have to lash out and get a copy.

Cheers

[ 05. December 2002, 23:38: Message edited by: Stone ]


If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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spiralx


spiralx

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Location: London, UK

Total posts: 1376
Posted:Oooh, even that clip was good for inspiration

"Moo," said the happy cow.

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.Morph.
SILVER Member since Mar 2002

.Morph.

addict
Location: Lancashire, UK

Total posts: 669
Posted:Thanks to everyone for their advice in this thread, this family of moves has been wracking my brains for ages now & I just couldn't get it, but now I'm buzzing & battering myself with them
Special thanks from my future children for the fred flinstone comment

[ 08. December 2002, 20:24: Message edited by: FireMorph ]


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coleman
SILVER Member since Aug 2002

coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kin...

Total posts: 7330
Posted:quote:Originally posted by Stone:
Think I'll have to lash out and get a copy.i have done so and don't hesitate in recommending it for a second.
i can't swing clubs (yet) but i reckon this is more than enough information and inspiration for the next year or so!

the full video/dvd includes upper and lower fountains, waist wraps, upper and lower reels and snakes which still seem to defy logic and look different every time i see them - last night they looked like isolations stuck to your forearm tonight, maybe fuscia hippos on skates...

god bless the gandini's


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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arashi


arashi

Pooh-Bah
Location: austin,tx

Total posts: 2364
Posted:yo santana. don't think it is, only saw the video once so i could be wrong, but i know her style better than just about anybody... she was probably doing a btb weave wall plane, with only one or two fast rotations in the back. turns with waistwraps are a whole different ball game and ususally aren't very aesthetic btb, so weave is usu. the choice for btb turn transitions. waistwrap is going from one side btb, to the other, with only a half circle inbetween, which these clubbers call a carry. i call them trinity moves and lessee i think i described them pretty clearly when i tried asking somebody what they were called in the jedi thread or somewhere, but got ignored. i'll see if i can find it. thing that differentiates is, both the wicks move in a straightish (ellipsoidal)line behind you, not a circular pattern, and start the circle on the other side.

-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.

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Stone
GOLD Member since Jun 2001

Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Total posts: 2830
Posted:Hey coleman, the phantom clubber, I was wondering if they did "the snakes", they must be soo cool.

Have you checked out the club thread I reckon the best thing about waist wraps is the carry, because it helps keep the momentum going.


If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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Posted:I assume everyone is also doing the four beat versions of waist wrap too? Why am I always the last to know?

Josh


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coleman
SILVER Member since Aug 2002

coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kin...

Total posts: 7330
Posted:stone - i read your club swinging thread before (around the end of october/start of november) but hadn't really started swinging back then.
it may well have been your thread that got me to go buy my torches... i've really only just begun to learn to use them in the last two weeks though.
its a great thread - i am currently rereading it (and understanding a lot more than before).
i'm up to post 36 now and will post when i'm done reading to let you know what stage i'm up to and all that

josh - i'm not doing four-beat ww's yet - still struggling getting all four of the two-beat btb ones so i can do some full ww's. i guess with four-beat you can do most of the two-beat stuff but have to turn your hips a little more as your wrists have to cross? can you do the four-beat ww's btb - this is approaching five-beat btb in the wall plane which is a crazy move (basically the four-beat ww with a circle in place of the carry)?

[ 19. December 2002, 23:14: Message edited by: coleman ]


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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