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MrConfused
MrConfused

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Location: I wish I knew
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Posted:I've seen it mentioned a couple of times. Can anyone describe it for me?

Is it where you stand side on to a weave and have the poi circle in front, behind on one side, back in front, behind on your other side? Sort of swapping between forwards and reverswe weave as you go?

J


If you're not confused, you're not thinking about things hard enough.

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fluffy napalm fairy
fluffy napalm fairy

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Brum / Dorset / Fairy Land
Member Since: 12th Dec 2001
Total posts: 3638
Posted:ummmm......yess. But it's not just doing weaves cos there's a 'carry' in there too. That is, you flip the poi onto one side before you've done all the roataions of a weave, so you carry it over to the other side. And there are no wraps. The name comes from club swinging I believe.....

You can do it in a weave and in a butterfly, in front of you and btb.

I think you'll have to get Dom or Glass or PK to come and explain it cos I can't. It's something to do with the beats and where/when you 'carry' it over. I can do it but I'm not sure how

sorry!


Geologists do it in the dirt................ spank

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NYC
NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Member Since: 26th Aug 2001
Total posts: 9232
Posted:?

Er... We had always called a waist wrap a wrap on the waist. Like going from corkscrews you can easily wrap your waist and kick into reverse corkscrew, or if you only wrap one, it's a horizontal butterfly.

Waist + wrap = waist wrap.

Looks cool when done by people with nice hips. Then again, us Raver influenced US kids do more "full" wraps then you juggling influenced europeans. Glass wouldn't even dignify my wraps as proper wraps by Eurostandards.

I've always called a wrap a move in which the poi wraps, runs out of string and smacks a body part, then changes direction. But that was before I went to the EJC. Then realizing that those "European" style wraps are all the rage (where they only wrap a body part partially, then unwrap, like a neck wrap) I guess I had to reassess my vocabulary.

But back to the point. There are quite a few people that would call a wrap of the waist a waist wrap.


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Dom
Dom

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Bristol, UK
Member Since: 19th Dec 2001
Total posts: 3009
Posted:NYC, with all your wraps you're such a glowsticker

It's a bit hard to explain and visualise, I normally defer to glass. Like the Fairy says, a waistwrap is a club spinning move, like weave to weave, but with a carry from one to the other, missing out one of the internal circles. And it goes in front, then one hand behind the back, so your hands wrap around the waist. Hence waist wrap.


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MrConfused
MrConfused

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Posted:Ok, I think that's what I had in mind. Cheers.

J (likes having names for moves)


If you're not confused, you're not thinking about things hard enough.

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fluffy napalm fairy
fluffy napalm fairy

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Brum / Dorset / Fairy Land
Member Since: 12th Dec 2001
Total posts: 3638
Posted:NYC - I call most wraps around your waist/torso (where the chains actually wrap) body wraps. Cos this new and complex club swinging 'waistwrap' stole the name. there are no wraps involved though

looks amazing when executed properly


Geologists do it in the dirt................ spank

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Stone
Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne
Member Since: 13th Jun 2001
Total posts: 2830
Posted:Hi Jephyre, you ask a question and describe a move.

In the context of poi, and what has been previously said on wraps in this forum, then wraps are named after the body part you wrap. Like arm wrap, foot wrap, toe wrap, bum wrap etc, etc, etc. So for a waist wrap, the poi would wrap around the waist. Simple, until we get into these old club moves.

I like clubs, but have limited resources and I don't mind admitting that I've never heard of a "waistwrap", or a "carry" for that matter. I would call the move you described the lower fountain, but then I call nearly everything a fountain

I could see how "waistwrap" could be used to describe joining the lower front and lower back fountains together. Like someone would say "just throw in a "waist wrap" to join the lower front with the lower back."

I'd be interested to know if the "waistwrap" is used as another name for the lower fountains, or if it's a term used to describe joining the back and front fountains together. I won't hold my breath

Suppose a "carry" would be short arm circles???

[ 18 October 2002, 03:58: Message edited by: Stone ]


If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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NYC
NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Member Since: 26th Aug 2001
Total posts: 9232
Posted:So then ros, what would you guys call a wrap around the waist? Or do people just not do that out there?

I do think that the differences and influences do have to do with US=>Rave; Euro=>Juggling connections. I guarantee most US firespinners have never even seen club twirling. And I don't know any US firespinners who can juggle clubs, let alone twirl them.


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Bram....
member
Location: the arms of the Ganja Goddess
Member Since: 17th May 2002
Total posts: 1551
Posted:hmmmm... I know a club swinger and a fire club juggelar

You. Its whats for dinner!

As time passes, you realise all the mistakes you amde and the ones you wish you never did make.

The wave crashing on the beach

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Stone
Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne
Member Since: 13th Jun 2001
Total posts: 2830
Posted:Hey NYC, I think the English connection is more with Indian clubs, rather than juggling clubs. Indian clubs being one of the many things the British army brought back from India, or that's how the story goes.

If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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Nyx
enthusiast
Location: NorCal
Member Since: 17th Jun 2002
Total posts: 385
Posted:NYC if we ever finally meet will you please show me some of those wraps?
Right now the only wraps i do are ones where the poi go around your legs front and back and the one where you do a butterfly and wrap both around a leg to come up to reverse butterfly. One time i handcuffed myself trying to do wrist wraps and it was scary enough that i haven't had the guts to try and duplicate it....big flame burning on wrist BAD!
I might try that corkscrew to waist wrap to reverse corkscrew though..sounds relatively simple and i have nice hips


"Dancing can reveal all the mystery that music conceals"

~Charles Baudelaire

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Glåss
Glåss

The Ministry of Manipulation
Location: Bristol
Member Since: 8th Nov 2001
Total posts: 2523
Posted:waistwrap

Ok its an old old clubswinging move,
actually its a whole family of moves, I thing its one of the main families or poi moves from the old school. At a quick count I've got over 40 members in the family so its less than half the size of the weave family.

Its not a lower fountain which is clubswing name for Cross follow to reverse cross follow (some of you young uns might call this 3beat weave to reverse 3 beat weave ), in the wall plane, (side to side not front to back). if your used to doing that, it really messes you up when your learning waist wrap. description of front waist wrap with top carry in next post.

top carry is easier, bottom carry in front feels nicer for me, its the same move as if you did the top carry standing on your head

back waist wraps with top carrys are lush moves, full waist wrap is da bomb move, its my favorite of the old skool swinging moves. combines front and back, changine between them at the carry. bollocks this needs a video, comming soon. actually might have a clip I can post

They're much more like doing 2 beat to reverse 2 beat with a carry than 3 beat.

carry is part of the great circle or long arm circles, a bit like what you might do infront in a giant windmill. usually in the wall plane too.

so a wrap round the waist, never called it by name, but I like ros' suggestion of body wrap to avoid confusion.

well it just makes a nice quirk in world of poi nomenclature (thats a lovely word) :nerd mode off

be cool
Glass
___
be

[ 18 October 2002, 08:09: Message edited by: glass ]


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NYC
NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Member Since: 26th Aug 2001
Total posts: 9232
Posted:Glass, is that a variant of what Cass was working on where the poi come from behind the back to the front (I think an advanced variation of a waist wrap)? One following the other behind the back then under the armpit to the front. Ug, explaining myself badly... Too bad Cass doen't read technical.

Definitely a club swingin' move.

I got no problem with the same phrase "waist wrap" being used for a wrap of the waist and a club juggling term for the orientation of a poi move. Obviously they both make sense.

Gotta run...


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Glåss
Glåss

The Ministry of Manipulation
Location: Bristol
Member Since: 8th Nov 2001
Total posts: 2523
Posted:crap I spent too long re-editing that post.
gotta get back to work, I'll come back here to write desc later.
Is there any way to get at the 2nd HOP descussion board, cos I wrote a really long description of them there.
NYC, yes. if it was at EJC
edited above should make more sense now.

Now where's that vidjo camera

meantime practice these 8 moves:
2 beat weave under your arm in the wall plane, both directions under either arm.
if coming from the front, then when on the left, when the left hand is BTB, the palm is facing up, (like fred flintstone) and same for right on the right. easy practice for front waste wrap, thats the first 4

the second 4 are....
maaahaa
Walm up. NO I REALLY MEAN THAT
STRETCH ARMS AND SHOULDERS
when your learning this bit

Same 4 moves as above, poi in exaclty same places doing the same moves, but instead of reaching across the front to have right arm on the left, reach BTB

This is still in the wall plane, don't need to twist body, much more reachy than BTB Weave

when you can do these 8, the lovely world of Waist wraps will soon follow

glad to be of service

Glass
__
be


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coleman
coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay
Member Since: 29th Aug 2002
Total posts: 7330
Posted:"the palm is facing up, (like fred flintstone)"

sorry to interrupt with annoying clarification questions but... do two of the moves in the second set involve having your right/left arm going behind your back and spinning the poi on your left/right hand side and *in front of your body*?

these complex move explanations often confuse me (as well as a few others i'd hope!). is there a glossary of descriptions anywhere that we can refer to? maybe a thread with a bunch of 'standard' move names and a few descriptions of each would be handy (eg. 'in the wall plane' means side to side not front to back, so poi spin in front or behind you as if you were facing or had your back to a wall).

i don't know if this board is ideal for this as it has sequential replies but it would be nice to have a proper taxonomy for all this ambiguous nomenclature. that could be the name of the thread...

: . . my poi are still but my head is spinning . . :


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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Glåss
Glåss

The Ministry of Manipulation
Location: Bristol
Member Since: 8th Nov 2001
Total posts: 2523
Posted:: . . my poi are still but my head is spinning . . :


thats why I'll try to sort out video

the fred flintstone thing is important. means that your shoulder doesn't get twisted back. cant do full waist wrap otherwise.

the bit that made you go .
yes thats what I mean.

Glossary of terms. Time for you to start one methinks, but it will get ultra confusing cos everyone has different names. If you wait PK and I are starting to work on it.

wall plane is "juggling wall plane" where balls would be if you were juggling
back wall plane. same BTB.

be cool
Drew


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Stone
Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne
Member Since: 13th Jun 2001
Total posts: 2830
Posted:Great stuff glass, really appreciate the effort that goes into those descriptions. So regarding the lost post in second hop discussion, perhaps you could ask Malcolm, or one of the cheerful hop moderators to dig it up from the archives, coz it would save a lot of time and effort.

If you are talking back-of-waist, arm-over-back type stuff, then I would probably call them waist circles.

I hope this makes sense now Cheers

[ 19 October 2002, 09:36: Message edited by: Stone ]


If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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Glåss
Glåss

The Ministry of Manipulation
Location: Bristol
Member Since: 8th Nov 2001
Total posts: 2523
Posted:Stone
Cant understand a word of it LOL

hmm thinks its time to mention that the other name for indian club swinging was Poise


now back in the 1930's my granny was in a 2000 person club swinging display in earl court exhibition centre.!!

Glass
__be


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Stone
Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne
Member Since: 13th Jun 2001
Total posts: 2830
Posted:Actually, fair point glass. I read my last post back it was a lot of crap. I've made some changes.

poise = balance, or did I miss something

I'm impressed that your gran was in a 2000 person club swinging display at the earl's court exhibition centre. Great stuff, that would have been fantastic to see. Clubs were BIG back then. Possibly bigger than baton in the States.

Looking forward to learning about waistwraps, sometime.

Yeah, now that I think about it, Fred would have had an appreciation of clubs.

[ 19 October 2002, 09:46: Message edited by: Stone ]


If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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Glåss
Glåss

The Ministry of Manipulation
Location: Bristol
Member Since: 8th Nov 2001
Total posts: 2523
Posted:next bit of the waist wrap description
For front waist wrap
with
top carry
spinning
all Anticlockwise

Left hand
wall plane (side to side)
3 circles then a carry back to start....

circle 1 - Under the left arm behind, with hand PALM UP like Barny Rubble and Fred Flintstone (this bit is really important). 1 beat/1 circle only.
circle 2 - one circle in front with your hand touching your belly button. 1 beat/1 circle only.

circle 3 - reaching across the front, circle under the right arm. 1 beat/1 circle only.

then carry back to the start, for starting out I always teach the carry as a really long arm reach up to the sky above and infront of you and drop straight into circle 1 behind.

when you've got this and your counting 1-2-3-carry.

Next thing:
practices with the right hand doing all the same circles in the same place and same direction.
Can put hands together for this, if practicing like that helps you.

The whole waist wrap will be swung with both hands following the same path, in follow time, with (for this one) the left hand always leading.

I'll try to sort out video's soon

bee cool and enjoy bashing yourself with this lovelovely move

bounces back into reality

Glass
__
be


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Raphael96
old hand
Location: New York City
Member Since: 8th Sep 2002
Total posts: 899
Posted:A front waist wrap?!

ooooo!

The back waist wrap is the new trick I have, so the front one will probably be next!

Thanks!

Raph


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Iandd
member
Location: Edinburgh, UK
Member Since: 5th Apr 2001
Total posts: 39
Posted:Waist wrap?

NOT a wrap as you poiers know it, nothing wraps around anything. the name refers to the movement of the poi/ clubs seeming wrapping around the sides/ front and back of the waist area. And yes you can do it in following and opposite directions, big and small, around your waist or under your legs. Ive been doing this one with poi now for ageeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeees. But I have practicall stopped poi altogether and gone back to club swinging. Snakes anyone?


soup!

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Stone
Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne
Member Since: 13th Jun 2001
Total posts: 2830
Posted:Glass, thanks for the info on waistwraps. This is turning into one great thread. The 123-carry works a treat. The 1st circle under left arm, 2nd belly button, 3rd under the right arm, with the top carry, seems to flow. The "carry" would be in parallel?

Raph, I think glass is leading into the btb stuff, but hey I'd like to see a btb "top carry"

Iandd welcome to hop, it would be interesting to know why you have gone back to club swinging? Most people seem to go the other way ie. clubs to poi.

Snakes anyone? Yes please. I could sure use some help with the hip spirals. There is a club thread going, but we haven't really got into the snakes yet. Crank it up, Iain for one, would like to see a dedicated club section


If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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Stone
Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne
Member Since: 13th Jun 2001
Total posts: 2830
Posted:Glass, tried front waistwrap with clubs today, and all I can say it seem a lot easier with poi, last night.

The under the arm works well, gives you plenty of room. I suppose you tighten it up later. And, that "top carry" will take a bit of practice.

I see what you mean by the palm-up. The left side is ok, but I have a bit of trouble getting a smooth circle with my right hand; when the left goes under the right arm. Do you roll the arm a bit or something? If that makes sense, and I'm doing them correctly.

Reading back my last post I suppose I meant the "top carry" would be in-sync (together). Also apologies Raph if my reply seemed a bit curt


If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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Stone
Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne
Member Since: 13th Jun 2001
Total posts: 2830
Posted:One thing for sure, there is a lot of stuff in the hop library.

Here is another description of a waist wrap sent in by Ian Deady. Scroll down, as there a few other good move on this page.


If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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Jaeden
member
Location: Edmonton
Member Since: 2nd Sep 2001
Total posts: 220
Posted:Is this anything like what Sage does at one point in col2? The part where they both come from behind to infront (but on the same side) in split-time and both in the same direction.

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fluffy napalm fairy
fluffy napalm fairy

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Brum / Dorset / Fairy Land
Member Since: 12th Dec 2001
Total posts: 3638
Posted:RAPH -

You doing waistwraps already? ???

BTB ones? ? Shit! But you couldn't turn with a weave last time I saw you!!!!!!!!


Geologists do it in the dirt................ spank

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MrConfused
MrConfused

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Location: I wish I knew
Member Since: 12th Jan 2002
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Posted:Stone- that description is what I've been doing for a long time (see my original post), but from Glass' description, a waist wrap is something slightly different.

J


If you're not confused, you're not thinking about things hard enough.

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Glåss
Glåss

The Ministry of Manipulation
Location: Bristol
Member Since: 8th Nov 2001
Total posts: 2523
Posted:bit that makes a WW is the carry, that description is very ambiguous, I wouldn't really say it describes one well.

I got video footage now, will try to post it in next few days


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coleman
coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay
Member Since: 29th Aug 2002
Total posts: 7330
Posted:that move described by ian deady is surely just forward to reverse cross follow?

he mentions chucking in a windmill which i think is the basic fountain (don't anyone shout at me for that - you have your idea of what a fountain is and i have mine ) but this is def not a description of the ridiculously fine waistwrap. clue is he say to turn out of the wall plane which would mess up the btb bit of the ww.

...i think


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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MrConfused
MrConfused

addict
Location: I wish I knew
Member Since: 12th Jan 2002
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Posted:Just realised I've actually been doing a sort of in time waistwrap for a few months, after seeing something on CoL3.

J


If you're not confused, you're not thinking about things hard enough.

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Page: 1234

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