Forums > Beginner Poi Moves > 7 Beat Weave, 6 Beat Windmill, and Triple Gainer Cartwheel Under The Leg

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alterego
BRONZE Member since Jul 2001

alterego

Warm beer is infinitely colder than no beer
Location: Boulder, Co, USA

Total posts: 222
Posted:I want to put out to all the people on the board that are new and learning that these are not moves. When I was still learning all the moves I used to get frustrated by the people who like to come on and brag about these amazing things they were doing with their poi and I could not pull it off.

This is where people mistake the wrap they do after a five beat weave, or twisting there strings around eachother, or even just planting your feet and turning extremely far in a circle to squeeze in that last turn.

These are not moves. These are wraps, transitions, and tricks that people are learning and adding to the moves. If you want a complete listing of each new MOVE go to the Poi Lessons section of the site.

I will gladly meet up with anyone in my area or anyone that wants to arrange a get together and show you step by step each actual move, including btb moves. Don't get caught up confusing and frustrating yourselves. It is my advice instead to work on your transitions so that your moves become less obvious and it looks like you are out there just spinning.

I challenge anyone who would like to challenge this to first post a video of them doing the move. Otherwise, I will remain to the fact that Malcom has chosen to leave up the listing in the Poi Lessons section because it is comprehensive.


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StarMetal


member
Location: Sweden

Total posts: 4
Posted:"Everything else is just a modification or combination of those three moves, just like all colours (spelled how Europe spells it so they can understand) is comprised of 3 original colours"

ohh... beeing an european I could have been insulted by this, but I am not.
just because we live in europe doesn't mean we only learn british english you know...

Well, anyway... the eye differs colors by wavelength, a continous scale. RBG is a very nice way to simulate most colors. It can't display everything but close enough for most people. CMYK is better for printing purposes... there are also LAB, HSB and so on...

So... saying there is only weave, butterfly and wrap is only one way to view the endless possibilities of poi. Anotherone can be forwards, backwards and opposite directions.

don't take this serious (well, some of it maybe)


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jonathan


enthusiast
Location: new zealand

Total posts: 210
Posted:im still with phunky on this one spanky......
a move plus a extra bit is still something different. its often the subtle things that make a difference

sure the basic gist of it may be the same, but why bother doing anything different when you think its all the same move anyway?

i mean even you say that you can have a five beat weave and a wrap............ and then go on to list other possibilities. i get the impression youre saying that two different things are the same.

why would we want to shoot you down anyway?


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alterego
BRONZE Member since Jul 2001

alterego

Warm beer is infinitely colder than no beer
Location: Boulder, Co, USA

Total posts: 222
Posted:because I AM RIGHT DAMNIT hehehe

phunky and myself like arguing read the link he put above - we were doing this a year ago! lol

i really do accept that there are two ways of looking at it - i could never be right about anything when i am so naive about many others!


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Dom
BRONZE Member since Dec 2001

Dom

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Bristol, UK

Total posts: 3009
Posted:Last night I saw a 7 beat weave, no wrap. If only they'd been a camera present! Oh well.

I still think moves don't really exist. There ain't black and white, only infinite shades of grey


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Glåss
DIAMOND Member since Nov 2001

Glåss

The Ministry of Manipulation
Location: Bristol, United Kingdom

Total posts: 2523
Posted:ahh there is no spoon.

Yea but it doesn't count, cos it wasn't clean, and no smiling relaxed things.

"if only there were a camera present"!
oh well next time.

Seems to me that phunky's happy, johnathan's happy,
and at the mo sparky is happy cos no one has "proved him wrong" by posting a video.

so thats got to be the end of the thread, no one needs to post and videos and they all lived happily ever after.
Infinite shades of grey, bo**ocks, I think that poi is made up of infinte shades of every color of the rainbow. (spelt the american way so they can understand)
You just got to look at fairy kat and orange to know that one

coffee break time. what'll it be today?

Drew
_______________________
"life is beautiful" (pele)


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Myst


addict
Location: Oceanside, California, USA

Total posts: 439
Posted:DAMN...Now all these kids are nibbling on my play-doh...ohhh...hehe...I got a pic up now..which sux cause people can rate you... but here it is http://mistykone.rateapix.com
copy paste it if it doesn't work as a link. bye bye friends...if flash is back(have ot a clue) or any other one of my ladies..hehe... then write me an E mail.

Eric (MYST)


Its about talent, not make up or costumes.

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NYC


NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA

Total posts: 9232
Posted:I don't think Dom exists.

I've heard about him but I think he's only rumor and speculation.

And there is only one poi move: Spinning forward.

Everything else is just a variation of that by altering the timing or the orientation of the wrists or body.


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

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Glåss
DIAMOND Member since Nov 2001

Glåss

The Ministry of Manipulation
Location: Bristol, United Kingdom

Total posts: 2523
Posted:ahh, it is true for us earthlings, but no, the eternal dom exists without the laws of physics, he has only one move. to hold his poi perfectly still while the rest of the universe rotates...

hmmm

I dont believe is post exists


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NYC


NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA

Total posts: 9232
Posted:How very 3-3-441 of you.

Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

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Jkare


member
Location: Boulder

Total posts: 19
Posted:Aren't all the levels of adding complexity moves themselves, like sine wave addition?

A stall and a wrap are the same thing, just whether the reversal in direction takes place in the air or against the body.

Tempo changes, putting one circle on one side, then two on the other (weave).
putting a twist over your arm to make it do it again (makes either 4 and 5 beat).
wrapping to cause the same effect again (7 thru infinity weave)

Or changining speed on one but not the other.

Lately I've been thinking that at some point we're really talking about Double weaves here. Two weaves put together make so much more sense than calling it the super ultra mega # weave.

How bout we look at this whole sport as one big wave addition problem (like sound) and that is how we can end up each having our own signature style. We take one simple move, make a pattern. Take a circle, throw it to the side every other beat. we have a 2 beat weave. is it really to far from the circle? Just a degree of motion. Let it twirl on the other side for two revolutions (x2) and you get the weave. It is a braiding of that same pattern, done in reverse, graphed over time. Am I just confusing everybody, or does this make a lick of sense?

In the end poi is making it visible to see the graphing of polar coordinants in 4 dimensional space. It looks a whole lot cooler cause we have two of 'em (cept meteors)

I have rambled on for far too long. (probably about a whole message worth) I hope this made sense to somebody?!? Or at least a portion of it.

p.s. there are four portions to any color (v.US) Red, Blue, Green, Yellow. You need three of them to fool your eyes into seeing white. Some women claim that they still need all four to see a perfect white (damn whole X chrom). Need to keep your facts straight to get the metaphore correct. I do agree with it though


Jkare
It's Time

Salama mpira wa moto

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NYC


NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA

Total posts: 9232
Posted:Actually, there's an infinite range of color. It just takes a combination of four to fool our eyes.

I guess, according to our analogy, that means that there is an infinate amount of poi moves.

Also, since chickens can see colors that we can't I guess they must also be able to do poi moves that we humans will never be able to. And dogs can't do poi at all.


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

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phunky


old hand
Location: Edmonton, AB

Total posts: 877
Posted:quote:Originally posted by NYC:

And there is only one poi move: Spinning forward.

Everything else is just a variation of that by altering the timing or the orientation of the wrists or body. Actually, thats true. Reverse spinning and Forward spinning are all relative which why you're facing the poi. So, you could say there's only reverse spinning and anything is just a variation of timing and what not. Ha, funny when you try to break poi down even more it gets even more complicated.


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Michal
BRONZE Member since Jun 2002

member
Location: London, United Kingdom

Total posts: 489
Posted:Crikey this all seems very fraught. Alow me to add my opinion.

All of poi swinging is just about doing lots of 'circles' in different places, in different rhythms and directions. So all poi moves are very intertwingled, and calling a particular move the 7 beat weave or the 5 beat with a wrap is just a matter of taste. (Even the three beat is a two beat with an extra circle). Names are only important so we understand what eachother is talking about, and we seem to so that's cool. Which name you choose to call it doesn't change what it is, and doesn't change the fact that we all know we are talking about the same thing and have a clear picture in our head of it.

For example, the overhead buterfly, when you don a butterfly in front of your head for one beat, and then a butterfly behind your head for one beat, could be seen as two moves (a butterfly in front and a butterfly behind) ar one move, say called 'angel wings'.

It is possible to classify moves to some extent, but because we could add circles wherever we feel like it becomes ridiculous to give each new variation a new name - better to give a name to the concept. Hmmm, take this example:

I do a three beat weave, but at the point where my left arm is on the right side of my body and my right arm is on the left side of my body, I leave them there and do an extra circle (So im spinning circles with my hands crossed over my body as if I'm hugging myself. (mmm...) Then I carry on with the move. But there's no limit to how many circles I could do whilst hugging myself. It's not worth having a different name for weave with one circle hugging self (the 'hug weave'), weave with two when hugging self (the 'huggle weave'), weave with three circles hugging myself (the 'contorted weave') weave with four circles hugging myself ( the 'constrictor') etc...It's only the hugging yourself whilst doing circles bit (the concept of what's being added )that needs defining.

Er..sorry about the examples.


michal@juggler.net

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Stone
GOLD Member since Jun 2001

Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Total posts: 2830
Posted:I'd suggest the one move is infinity

otherwise known as the humble figure-8


If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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Jkare


member
Location: Boulder

Total posts: 19
Posted:Figure 8 is still a circle, just with a change in space, and possibly a change in speed.

I agree, it is infinity: 0=2Pi=4Pi=6Pi= a really good burn.

what I think we should figure out here is what are the portions of the dance that we can change.

We know we are making circles.
We know if we move far enough around, they change their relative direction
A stall or wrap changes direction.
You can change the tempo
There are certain areas around the body where the poi fit with the body so as to best avoid hitting it.

How would poi work if the thing swinging it did not have a human shaped body?


Jkare
It's Time

Salama mpira wa moto

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Glåss
DIAMOND Member since Nov 2001

Glåss

The Ministry of Manipulation
Location: Bristol, United Kingdom

Total posts: 2523
Posted:whatever shape it was.
I bet it would still have testicles *, and I bet it would still hit em.

*or other female tender bits)


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jonathan


enthusiast
Location: new zealand

Total posts: 210
Posted:i think it would be cool to have new names for every move, just imagine it...........

'crying mountain chases icy lake'

with names like that for all the different moves (even if they are basically the same) everyones a winner!!!!!

yeah well..... i'll just head back to happy sword land now :-)


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glowshow


member
Location: Charlotte, NC, USA

Total posts: 406
Posted:I think I hit this thread a little bit late in the game, seeing as how it has now delved deep into philosophical poi theory.

However, I would like to point out to Spanky that there are plenty of moves that have not even been discussed or only mentioned in passing that were put on video and even made it onto the COL series. Why don't you buy them and see for yourself. I won't go into great detail, but I will point out a couple that were on COL3:

Kato doing those wicked tuck-turn weaves from BTB weaves.
Jo doing damn near anything.
Jedi White doing the BTB 5 beat~NICE!
Skunk and Shibaki with all the nice under the leg weaving.
PK and Daniel Tyler doing all the neat TTN and B-fly variations.
Supafly demonstrating his absolutely amazing "3 places at once" technique. (Note: many people think that was an effect on the video. I was there for the filming. He does that live and in real life...no effect whatsoever! And we are both pretty miffed that he didn't win for demonstrating that uncanny ability to split himself into 3 parts and spin poi with all of them. That takes talent people! )

Damn near everyone on COL3 had some move or another that isn't listed on the lessons page of this site. Don't close your mind to new stuff just because you don't know how to do it yet.


FREE TIBET!!! (with the purchase of a 44 oz. drink)What do you want to be when you grow up?I want to be a kid again!I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.~~~J~~~

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theblackunicorn


member
Location: fort worth, TX, USA

Total posts: 119
Posted:i cant say much about the technical aspect..cuz i dont know much about it. for me poi is a dance and a way to connect with everything..its just me and the fire. i dont care anything about moves or patterns..i just spin. i do alota strange things to try to make the dance better, like using 6 and 8 poi at a time to get a better idea of how to move them individually, using poi in one hand and a staff/sword/fan/comet/torch/whatever i can get my hands on just to get a better feel of the poi and how to transistion them with other tools. which also lets me dance with othr spinners with a bit better understanding of how their tools work and how to coreagraph(sp?) songs and bits with them. its not about how many beats there are for me, or if i can do a certain wrap or not. its just a dance, just a healthy thing (as opposed to drugs or alcohol) that lets me get away form the world and let go of the everyday pain and hurts that build up in my heart. so continue this conversation( somewhat heated as it seems to get at times) if you want to, i just cant bring myself to understand how people can take something so powerful and beautiful and so rare as the things we do and turn it into some kind of contest.

[ 10 September 2002, 09:41: Message edited by: theblackunicorn ]


its to dying in anothers arms and why i had to try it......

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Nic


member
Location: Cape Town, South Africa

Total posts: 18
Posted:Anybody read "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintanance"? The last post, in contrast to pretty much all the other posts is a perfect example of the difference in "Classic" (The strive for logical and scientific perfection) and "Romantic" (The strive for esthetic and artistic beauty) as described in the book.

Weird how people can get so twisted-up in a topic that they start talking about completely different things under the pretext of the origonal topic. Interesting. (Not saying its bad by the way)


Gooi nat, or don't gooi at all.*Nic*

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Kabukiman


member
Location: Washington, USA

Total posts: 42
Posted:Just out of blantent curiosity how does one go about accomplishing a "7-beat weave." For all purposes it seems that is in defiance of the human bone structure. I guess what I am asking about is, how the heck do you do it? It sounds like fun and I'ld love to do something where I am furthering my impotence again. Wow... the mechanics seem mind boggling... I guess I am in awe and wonder. It must be one of those things that staggers the mind. I just can't get an image in my head. Help the confused person to be enlightened.

I wouldn't know... I've never given a cartoon character an orgasm.

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Nyx


enthusiast
Location: NorCal

Total posts: 385
Posted:Ya know, i get lost with the technical stuff....
I mean, the average person watching a spinner and sayinng Ooooo and ahhhhh doesn't give a damn whether you're doing a 3-beat 5-beat or 50-beat whateveryacallit so then you have to say that basically it's to impress other spinners, or yourself if that's your motivation. Me personally, i think it's all about transitions and dance and hips'n such. Feel the music, see the pretty colours interact with and captivate your audience and HAVE FUN!!! Your love of what you're doing will shine and everyone will feel that energy!
YAY!
I'm off to meet a spinner at the beach now!


"Dancing can reveal all the mystery that music conceals"

~Charles Baudelaire

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Kabukiman


member
Location: Washington, USA

Total posts: 42
Posted:Never mind... just went outside and got it on my third or fourth try... needs to be cleaned a little but after some stretching and practice should look pretty clean... thanks for the idea and the help guys... I was looking for something new to spend some time on but was more of an instant gratification. That's great though... thanks again.

I wouldn't know... I've never given a cartoon character an orgasm.

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Bond


member
Location: Victoria, BC CANADA

Total posts: 5
Posted:You know I don't think it really matters if the 7 beat is or isn't a "move" or a "wrap" or whatever, as long as the person who is doing it is having fun and doesn't get hurt...well why does it matter?? There are so many different ways to move the poi and most ppl would call them moves. When a person learns a new way to move their poi.....well one tends to call it a "new move". So who cares if it is a five beat with a wrap or a 7 beat weave?? It is all the same when looking at it!!!!
Peace Spanky and phunky, smile


safe journeys...happy trails...and remember to smile once and awile on your journey through life

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Rozi
SILVER Member since Jan 2002

100 characters max...
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia

Total posts: 2996
Posted:Shnner... <---- sound of confusion & exhaustion

I must admit I don't really learn much from reading what is posted around, my best way of learning is to watch people, and go "hey that looks great" and then go & try it & hit myself in the head lots. As such I find these conversations & the distinctions you make really confusing (kinda like listening to people talk about 1000 different types of music, beginning with drum & base, jungle, blah, blah, blah...).

All you people are good mates of mine, so I know you won't take offense at this (or at least I hope not), but do any of you sit there and critique a performance saying "ooo, that was a well executed 5 beat weave with a wrap, however the 3 beat giant windmill was a tad on the small side"? Why do you feel the need to break it down & classify it? Why does it have to be a scientific endeavour? Is it just that at heart most of us are the fire version of train-spotters?


It was a day for screaming at inanimate objects.

What this calls for is a special mix of psychology and extreme violence...

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Mark P
BRONZE Member since Oct 2001

Mark P

old hand
Location: Bath, England

Total posts: 1031
Posted:quote: Is it just that at heart most of us are the fire version of train-spotters?
Maybe we are but the only reason I look at other performances with a critical eye is because I am still in the learning zone with poi. Yes I can give a pretty good performance and have been asked to do a few events but there is still a lot for me to learn.

When I watch people spin I look for transitions that I maybe havent thought of and even look at how to incorporate moves that I cant actually do myself at the moment. I think it is more of a case of fascination with the movement of the dance, rather than some sort of sad trainspotting infactuation.

Mark


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Shibaki


enthusiast
Location: Tampa, Fl

Total posts: 309
Posted:however: in poi there is only 1 move: the reverse swing, and the rest is just a variation of the wrists... etc. sorry, i couldnt help but join the ruckus

ah vell. no matter. so lets dance


Wow

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Dunc
GOLD Member since Aug 2003

Dunc

playing the days away
Location: The Middle lands, United Kingd...

Total posts: 7263
Posted:time to be pedantic....

quote:
wouldn't the centrafugal (spelling??) force exerted by the spinning motion be stronger than that of gravity, otherwise the poi would never leave the bottom of the arc. So wouldn't the poi stay at a constant distance from the centre of their axis? (thereby making the shape they're spinning in... a circle)

and what qualifications do u have in this 'field', just curious? [/QB]Centrifugal (spelling) force is never perfect unless your in a gravity free environment, or, exactly 90degrees (but that's only possible in theory really), and no force is "stronger" than gravity in the sense that it could be overcome, forces just work together as it's always pulling downwards at 9.8m/s/s2 (that's 9.8 meters per second per second squared or thereabouts and yes per second appears twice) so no mater what you do this will always be a factor, and besides, unless you can keep something spinning without moving the handles it'll never be a perfect circle, (your hand moves up and down etc) and obviously if your hand/wrist/whatever didn't move (up and down, side to side whatever but not actually round and round if you look closely) the spin would stop cuz you have to transfer your force/energy into the poi by moving your hand. Infact you have to move your hand up&down or side2side BECAUSE gravity is always pulling your hand and the poi downwards, thus the cirlce is always an arc/oval unless you can defy the laws of physics to maintain their momentum

TA DAAAAAAAAAA

And I'm not really a nerd (sic) but I learnt that in at school (in science and in technology)...I guess British Schools are actually good after all!!

And I'm glad to see that you guys stopped chucking your dummies out of your prams, just spin it and enjoy it, reach your maximum potential or not, just enjoy it by yourself and your mates your little "chats" have made me smile quite a lot though!

luvs ya all


Let's relight this forum ubblove

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DeepSoulSheep
GOLD Member since Sep 2002

DeepSoulSheep

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Berlin, Ireland

Total posts: 2617
Posted:"stop throwing dummies out of cots" You're brave dragging this thread up again really.

I was only reading it a few days ago. I thought it was hilarious to suggest that the moves in the lessons section were all the moves that were possible


I live in a world of infinite possibilities.

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coleman
SILVER Member since Aug 2002

coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kin...

Total posts: 7330
Posted:bug - 'metres per second squared' means 'metres per second, per second'.
shorthand is either (m/s)/s or m/s^2 or m.s^-2

but my less pedantic point is that 9.8(m/s)/s is an acceleration, not a force.

force is mass dependent.
the acceleration of a mass resulting from a constant force (like gravity) is not and this is where the 9.81 constant comes from.

also, there are lots and lots of forces stronger than gravity. well, technically there's only really three stronger forces (em force, strong and weak nuclear) but they encompass *all* of the others.

in the everyday context, any mass that leaves the ground must have had a force applied that was greater than that of gravity.
as long as that force propels the mass in the opposite direction to gravity with an acceleration greater than 9.8(m/s)/s.

i'd agree with yours and dss's general point here though. very intweresting thread

poi - its not just all one big variation ya know.

[ 12. September 2003, 04:33: Message edited by: coleman ]


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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