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Forums > Beginner Poi Moves > reverse vs forward btb weave. Which is which?

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Bassman


member
Location: Austin, TX, USA

Total posts: 95
Posted:I'm confused on which btb weave is considered "forward" and which one is considered "reverse."I would think that if the rotation of the poi on your left side is clockwise and the rotation on your right side is counter clockwise (relative to you), then both sides of the weave would be spinning "forward" right? So wouldn't that be considered a forward btb weave? It seems that people are calling that as a reverse btb weave. What's the deal?

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adamrice


adamrice

poo-bah
Location: Austin TX USA

Total posts: 1015
Posted:If you start doing forward side-circles, and go into a BTB weave, that's a *reverse* BTB weave.The nomenclature for the BTB weaves used on this site is the reverse from what you'd expect. There's a logic to it: a forward BTB weave is the the same motion as a forward weave, just behind your back.

Laugh while you can, monkey-boy

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protozoa
BRONZE Member since Feb 2001

member
Location: Baltimore, MD USA

Total posts: 148
Posted:Adam:Are you sure? A number of folks have talked about the btb weave and I thought they referred to a starting-out-as-a-reverse-swinging weave as reverse btb weave. I can do it when I start swinging reverse but haven't yet been able to do it the other direction; I thought that was the reverse btb!Can we get a committee on this one?
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-protie


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hafsha1


member
Location: Baltimore, Maryland, U.S.

Total posts: 35
Posted:Here's my weird problem (does anyone else experience this too?) I can do the BTB weave in the same direction as the regular forward weave (poi spinning in the same direction as the first weave usually learned. When poi are in front of you then hit the back of your head and front of you shins) but I cannot do the BTB weave quite as smooth in the other direction (spinning the same direction as the reverse weave when in front of you. Likewise hit you in the face when in front). Which direction do you find easier to do in reverse? Hit you in the back of the head or right in the face?Uh huh!-Hessam

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Shibaki


enthusiast
Location: Tampa, Fl

Total posts: 309
Posted:Yep, the one I do definitely hits me in the face; quite often... Ive put it on the back burner for a while. I thought it was the reverse... who knows? We could rename them! 1. Nose bash BTB weave2. Skull crash BTB weave
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------------------We are not physical beings having a spiritual experience; we are spiritual beings having a physical experience.~Edgar Cayce


Wow

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Peregrine


member
Location: Mystic, Ct. USA

Total posts: 428
Posted:I think we should name itbtb which is hard to learnandbtb which is impossible to learn
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and i cant do either of em!Pere


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adamrice


adamrice

poo-bah
Location: Austin TX USA

Total posts: 1015
Posted:Protie--Yeah, I'm sure. Check the lessons. The animations make it pretty clear. I sort of did a double-take at the names too.Shibaki--The women here in Austin refer to the btb weave that starts off as reverse circles (the forward btb weave) as "the titty-twister"Hafsha--I'm with you. I've gotten fairly comfortable with both directions.Pere--stick with it. If I can do it, anyone can. It took me a month of daily practice, but I got it. Work your way up to it: one-hand crossovers, two-hand crossovers, then the weave. Be prepared to gyrate your knees, hips, and shoulders a lot.

Laugh while you can, monkey-boy

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Bassman


member
Location: Austin, TX, USA

Total posts: 95
Posted:Adam - Actually, the animations seem to show the opposite of what you are saying. If you look at the btb weave lesson (http://www.homeofpoi.com/new12.htm), it doesn't say whether the btb weave Shawn is talking about is forward or reverse. Then if you look really closely at "btb reverse weave and turn," (notice the break in the loop) (http://www.homeofpoi.com/new13.htm) you can see that the animation starts out with the same rotation as Shawn was using, which means that he's calling it the "reverse btb weave."

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adamrice


adamrice

poo-bah
Location: Austin TX USA

Total posts: 1015
Posted:Bassman--I disagree. My main reason for referring to the moves as I do is that the motion shown in "new12" is called just the btb weave, and when forward/reverse is not specified, I assume the writer means forward. Plus the fact that what I call a forward btb weave feels like a regular forward weave--both to me feel like "pull one hand over the other", whereas the reverse weave (either in front or in back) feels like "pull one hand *under* the other."The animation on "new13" starts off with the same motion shown on "new12". Which I am asserting is called the "forward btb weave." Then he turns into the opposite motion. Based on that, I do *not* conclude that the first motion is the reverse btb weave, but I agree it is open to debate.

Laugh while you can, monkey-boy

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hafsha1


member
Location: Baltimore, Maryland, U.S.

Total posts: 35
Posted:BTB weave and turn is so damn hard! That is what I am trying to figure out now. Any suggestions?

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Bassman


member
Location: Austin, TX, USA

Total posts: 95
Posted:Adam-- It is true that for your definitions, both front and back forward weaves have same *order* of arm movement. The crossed arm rotates over the open arm before it rotates under the open arm, however, the direction in which it rotates over and under the other arm is in the opposite direction. Because of that, when I do what you would consider a reverse btb weave, it *feels* to me like a forward front weave. I do see how it could feel to you like a reverse front weave though.Is there a book or video that has this btb stuff named in it?Here's slightly different question. What are the definitions of "forward" and "reverse" for each poi?I would define "forward" as meaning left hand poi spins clockwise (relative to the hand), and right hand poi spins counter clockwise, and vice verse for "reverse." This is a convenient definition because you can define "thread the needle" or "butterfly" as "forward" or "reverse" no matter what plane the poi are in, but then when you do a weave, the poi aren't both going forwards or reverse at the same time, so it's convenient to label the twirl on each side as clockwise or counter clockwise. Then you could can call the weave "forward" if the left side is clockwise and the right side is counterclockwise, but then what if you are doing at three point weave, or what if one side of the weave is above your head? My definition is not too helpful there.Well, anyway I tried to send emails to Shawn Fumo and Jo Derry. Jo Derry's bounced, so I'm just waiting for Shawn's, although I have a feeling he might not know the answer himself.

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Bassman


member
Location: Austin, TX, USA

Total posts: 95
Posted:hafsha1-- I started out learning by holding my left hand across my back holding the poi at rest, dangling on my right side. I then rotated my right poi in the "reverse" direction on my right side. When I was ready to go into the weave I swung my right hand over to my left side behind my back and followed with my left hand. Once you get started, it's not so bad. You just have to worry about not hitting yourself. It helps to watch Shawn's animation in the poi lessons section while you are doing it (if you have enough room near your computer). Other then that, practice, practice, practice..

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Myst


addict
Location: Oceanside, California, USA

Total posts: 439
Posted:Whichever it is, forward or reverse, they are both fairly hard to learn. I learned the skull bash first, then found the the face bash was much easier. Now I don't bash either. I'm looking forward to learning the 5-beat btb weave now. What sux about this is, I dont like to learn one thing and not learn it in reverse, so Im out to learn right now. Wish me luck.Eric

Its about talent, not make up or costumes.

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jamie


member
Location: Hillsborough, San Francisco, C...

Total posts: 21
Posted:btb weave- poi goes towards caves and facereverse btb weave- poi goes towards shins and shoulder blades

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Matt


member
Location: Praha, Czech Rep.

Total posts: 1
Posted:i call reverse btbwave the one, which you start doing from reverse wave in front of your body.. and this one i can do, the forward btb seems strange to me...

Bye by Matt

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pyro_teknik


member
Location: england wiltshire under stoneh...

Total posts: 51
Posted:yes it is weired isnt it when you stop to think about it i can only do btb weave in one direction which is what i would call reverse where the poi are spinning toward your face, but i cant get my head round doing it in the other direction..!!I have no problems turning whilst weaving in front of me but when i try to into it behind the back i tie myself in knots i have watched my freinds doing it but still cant seem to grasp it
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its not the end of the world though and have plenty of time to figure it out .ps: you may find it amusing to hear that i learnt to spin using a pair of gyn socks stuffed with other soft stuff before i got my own poi !!peace


handlebar moustaches are funny :)

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Posted:I'm fairly new at swinging, and i don't have a mentor so i might not do the moves as "correct" as i should, but i recently learned the forward(?) btb move. But rather than "skull bashing" i frequently have a "shin bash" or it gets tangled in my shorts. Suggestions?Also, i've found that taking one step forward and leaning over while doing the btb helps, which probably originated from my shin bashings. Because i have no mentor, any tips on the seemingly impossible 5-beat or btb would be greatly appreciated
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--------------------"Blessed are those who can laugh at themselves, for they will never cease to be amused" --Unknown


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Myst


addict
Location: Oceanside, California, USA

Total posts: 439
Posted:about hitting your shins, I used to do it all the time on my left side. I lifted that leg for a while just so I could get enough reps behind my back so that I knew what my hands had to do. I continued to lift my leg for like a month, then one day I just didn't, and now I can do a 360 BTB and not come anywhere close to my legs. Just get your hands trained to do the BTBW then when they are ready, you'll just do it and not even notice.Eric

Its about talent, not make up or costumes.

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Jaeden
GOLD Member since Sep 2001

member
Location: Edmonton

Total posts: 220
Posted:I realize this is an old post but it is still giving me dificulty figuring out what people are talking about when they say btb-whatever. These are my thoughts but if there is a general concensus and it is different from my view, could someone please post it (for claritys sake)?I have found that there seems to be a pattern regarding fwd and rev moves that is fairly simple. It can be explained for both plains, the ones perpendicular to the way you are facing (butterfly variants) and the ones paralell to your direction (weave variants).For the butterfly and simmilar moves, forward is when the poi are spinning towards the ground on the cross-over section. Similarly, when the poi are behind you and spinning towars the ground durring the cross-over section I would assume that is the forward btb butterfly.For a weave forwards is when the poi spin towards the ground during the cross-over section (when they move from one side of your body to the next). Again, I would think it the same behind you.Now, this is just my take on it but it seems to make sence and is simple.------------------'There is a fist pressing against anyone who thinks something compelling'[This message has been edited by Jaeden (edited 27 September 2001).]

The world is not out to get you but if you fight it you will be eaten alive

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DJ Dantana
BRONZE Member since Aug 2001

veteran
Location: Stillwater, Ok. USA

Total posts: 1495
Posted::::left speachless by shock and confusion:::I thought forward weave and forward BTB weave were spinning the same circle....But it seems like nobody knows....Can we get a vote?

we eat and we drink and we smoke and we try!

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Bassman


member
Location: Austin, TX, USA

Total posts: 95
Posted:Jaeden -- I've worked a little on developing a poi diagram notation. My notation is oblivious to whether your hands are in front of you or behind you. You can't really infer the direction of the spin unless you know where your hands are, so the fwd weave (shin bashing) has the same notation as the face bashing btb weave. This type of thing makes me want to agree with you on your analysis. On the other hand, it's just damn comfusing to the newbie
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I wonder what terminology is used in club swinging...[This message has been edited by Bassman (edited 27 September 2001).]


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Dark Star


member
Location: Sydney, Australia

Total posts: 5
Posted:I'd just like to add my thoughts to the confusion...If you do the forward weave in front of you, when you cross the poi over from one side of your body to the other, the arm that leads the cross-over moves on top of the other arm. (ie crossing over from right to left, your right arm goes over your left arm). When you do the reverse weave, the arm that leads the cross-over goes under the other arm. If we keep this logic in the BTB weave, the forward BTB is the face-bash and the reverse BTB is the shin-bash (or skull-bash).Does that make sense to anyone else?!?!

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Jo


Jo

member
Location: Sheffield, England

Total posts: 517
Posted:Bassman,I have no idea why your email bounced, but others have had this problem - maybe I'll get a new account. Anyways, to do the btb weave and turn (well, it's really a circular btb weave) you have to be able to do the btb weave both forwards and backwards, then just try turning whilst doing the btb weave. After a few gos you should get it almost by accident and you'll know when you've got it because it'll feel like the circular weave. I'm sorry I can't explain it any better but it's impossible to describe the hand motions.good luck,Jo.

Educate yourself in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

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Shouden-CrD
SILVER Member since Apr 2001

Veteran Member
Location: Tampa, FL, USA

Total posts: 495
Posted:lol, that was about the exact same description I gave when trying to describe a turning weave. :P You have to know forward and reverse BTB weaves, and you just turn your body(same as you do when doing a regular spinning weave), and it comes. It feels exactly the same as a spinning weave in front of you. CRD

-=razyRaverude=-

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