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Location: Austin, TX, USA
Member Since: 26th Jun 2001
Total posts: 95
Posted:I received the following email and I responded to it. This has been discussed here before, but since I took the time to write out a detailed explanation (explaining this stuff is hard work!) I figured that perhaps someone else could benefit from it if I posted it here as well. My poi vids are (still) at http://siteswap.org/poi/>I
can do TTN very easily, but I'm not sure>how to do the split-time TTN, Its obviously>different from watching your videos, might>you e-mail me on how it's done differently>and also how one would use this for the 3>point split-time TTN weave. If you could>help me with this that would be greatSplit-Time TTN = Sideways Same-Time TTN---------------------------------------First of all lets take a look at the difference between the same-time and split-time butterfly. For the same-time butterfly, the poi point in the same direction when vertical, but in opposite direction when horizontal. The split-time butterfly is just the opposite, the poi point in the opposite direction when vertical, but in the same direction when horizontal. In this respect the split-time butterfly is basically the same-time butterfly turned on it's side. For this same reason, the split-time TTN is basically the same as a sideways same-time TTN.Arm movements are sideways in Split-Time TTN--------------------------------------------With the butterfly, it doesn't really matter how your hands are oriented. They could be side-by-side, or one on top of the other or where ever you want them. Since your arms never actually go through the pattern it doesn't really matter where your arms are with respect to the pattern. It doesn't matter whether the pattern is right side up or sideways, the hand positions can be exactly the same. With TTN however, your arms *do* go through the pattern, so when you turn your pattern sideways, you have to turn your movements sideways as well.There are two ways to do the sideways movements with Split-time TTN-------------------------------------------------------------------When you do a forward same-time TTN, your hands are basically rotating in a forward vertical circle. When you do a split-time TTN, you have to rotate your hands in a horizontal plane. Notice that there is only one way that your hands can rotate in a forward vertical circle. Also notice that there are two ways that your hands can rotate in a particular direction on a horizontal circle. Right arm on top, or left arm on top. The reason why you don't have two options like this with the vertical circle is that you'd be choosing which arm is on the right and which arm is on the left. Being that your right arm is naturally on the right already, it would be difficult to stretch it over to the left side of your left arm while you are rotating your hands, but with the horizontal circle, neither arm is naturally on top. It's the same amount of stretch either way.You can combine the two movements together to make it look more symmetrical and TTN-like---------------------------------------------------------------Rotating your hands by always having the same arm on top can look kind of dumb. Fortunately you can switch between the two movements by changing the direction of the rotation. For instance, you can start by moving your right arm clockwise over your left hand and then move your left arm counter-clockwise over your right hand. Doing this combined move makes it look very similar to same-time TTN. Your hands will kind of look like they are rotating in a forward vertical circle, but they will actually be rotating in two different horizontal half circles. Also because you are combining two TTN moves together, it will take 50% more time to complete a cycle. That makes the pattern seem a little slower, kind of like how a 5 beat weave seems slower than a 3 beat weave.Ok, how do I start this pattern?--------------------------------Start out with a forward split-time butterfly. Try moving your right arm over your left arm and stick it through the pattern shortly after your left poi has rotated past the point where it is pointing left. Keep rotating your hands clockwise until your right hand comes out of the pattern. That's the first step. You can keep rotating clockwise or you can try it counter clockwise with your left over right. Once you have both directions down, you can combine them.The 3 point split-time TTN weave (aka split-time TTN lower fountain)--------------------------------------------------------------------Hmm... here's where I really wish I had my poi with me
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Anyway, first make sure that you can do the split-time TTN forward and reverse. It's probably easiest to start by spinning your poi at your sides in opposite directions. For example, Left poi forward, right poi reverse. Swing the left poi over to the right and try to go into a reverse split-time TTN for one cycle, then swing your left poi back over to your left side. Then try to do a similar thing on your left side, except this time when you swing your right poi over, do a *foward* TTN, then swing back. Get used to switching between left and right and then get used to switching between sides and front. Remember that unlike the split-time TTN, at any given time you have control over which arm you want on top. This can be helpful for transitions between planes.Hope that helps...Good luck!-Bassman[This message has been edited by Bassman (edited 19 October 2001).]

Posted:Legendary description dude.Josh

Location: Seattle, WA, USA
Member Since: 17th Aug 2001
Total posts: 68
Posted:Hey Bassman, thanks to your pointers at the juggling festival, I finally got the split time TTN! Thanks again! Now I just need to work on that 3 point split time TTN....

Location: Austin, TX, USA
Member Since: 26th Jun 2001
Total posts: 95
Posted:Neeko -- Hey no problem man. I'm glad that you got the split-time TTN down. If you have any questions let me know. I'm glad that I got the chance to met you
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That was a great festival.

old hand
Location: Edmonton, AB
Member Since: 30th Jul 2001
Total posts: 877
Posted:*looks at bassmans essay*heh, the reason why i don't like explaining new moves over the internet.------------------[]Dhuong-Vu Truong==== []Dhunky ====

Fire Princess
Location: London/Brighton, UK
Member Since: 18th Jan 2001
Total posts: 130
Posted:Very honourable, Bassman.
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Location: Austin TX USA
Member Since: 19th Dec 2000
Total posts: 1015
Posted:Bassman's description is excellent, but I'll add one thing to it. Even once you grok the basic motions, this move is *very* sensitive about correct timing.If you're like me, when you do the butterfly you are always leading slightly with the same chain (in my case, the right). The sideways TTN forces you to get out of that habit, because each time you roll a wrist over the other, the roll-over wrist must follow the underneath wrist. Otherwise it's tangle city.It took me a week of looking at Bassman's video before I even understood what the hell I was supposed to be doing with my hands, and another week to actually get my hands to do it. I've got it now, and it's a really cool move. Still don't have the 3-point version. I've also been trying to do a reverse sideways TTN. No joy so far.

Laugh while you can, monkey-boy


Location: Lancashire, UK
Member Since: 23rd Mar 2002
Total posts: 669
A great explaination, Thx Bassman.
I'm nearly there now

Location: Sacramento 916
Member Since: 25th Nov 2002
Total posts: 27
Posted:wow i didnt know thread the needle could go so far.....hehe

pHoTiK kReW!!!!!

I don't want a title.

Member Since: 26th Jun 2003
Total posts: 940

I'm trying to figure this out, so I want the explanation near the top for easier access.

E pluribus unum, baby.


Location: montreal: bagel capital
Member Since: 16th Jul 2003
Total posts: 133
Posted:Actually regyt, thanks for putting it near the top; it's a very nice, very useful description. There was so much crap when I did a TTN weave search, this seems to be a priceless little jewl. Bassman, if you're still out there, nice work!

Now I get to tangle my poi some more.

there is no better way to say I love you than with the gift of a spatula!


Location: NYC, NY, USA
Member Since: 26th Aug 2001
Total posts: 9232
Posted:I wish Bassman still hung around here. He was brilliant... but he's been seduced by other juggly things. At least I get to see him at the European Juggling Convention every year.

Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]