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NYC_not_PK
NYC_not_PK

One Tyred Guy
Location: Camaiore, Lu, Italy
Member Since: 13th May 2001
Total posts: 203
Posted:It's been kind of strange, but Ive been running into firespinners WHEREEVER I go. Maybe I just have been hanging in different circles that I usually do, or staying up later. Or maybe the art is approaching a FAD! NOOOOoooooooo!Yes, its true, everywhere I look theres a pair of something being spun on a string. Im sure that there is tons of logical cross over from the rave/club crowd which is certainly popular right now. With the growth of even this website its obvious that fire twirling is all-the-rage.My point is not to slam the newbies (as I am one myself) nor to slam fads in general but merely to warn my beloved Vets who havent yet seen the coming flood. Dont worry, it will pass.No need for the I remember when X was cool before everyone started doing it (Let X represent Fire poi, Burning Man, glow sticks, leg wraps, neighborhood coffee shops, whatever)Dont get upset when FOX NEWS features some really HORRIBLE fire twirlers and an awful commercial (See what has the police HOT under the COLLER Nobody told THESE kids not to play with matches We take you into the dangerous world of illegal firetwirling NEXT!)Gap ads, the whazzup guys, Nike spots, half-time shows, "I'm MrMo and my anti-drug is fire," the next Tom Hanks/Meg Ryan movie I have looked into my crystal ball and seen it all. My advise? Easy: #1: Relax. Just because everyone else is doing it doesnt mean that its not still cool. If youre a pro you just became a hero to thousands.#2: Cash in. Hey, you did it before might as well get paid in full for doing it now. Offer paid lessons by the hour? Offer demos? Put out a hat? Buy stuff on this website and sell it for double? Er wait scratch that last one.#3: Be patient. Dont worry this too shall pass. Right now someone is concocting the next Macarena, Pet Rock, Hula Hoop, Pokeman, or Cabbage Patch Kid and then well be right back where we started. Im not trying to prophesize the apocalypse, nor am I playing the Old immigrants make fun of the new immigrants game. Its just an observation. Call me a crackhead if you like but I know that some of you see it too.

PK is a god.. i love the Peeekster.

.:PK:. [poiinthepark founder member]


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing smileSTAY SAFE! hug

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Pele
Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA
Member Since: 15th Dec 2000
Total posts: 6193
Posted:I agree Flash Fire and Spanky...Two words I never concidered associating to spinning, or any fire art for that matter...easy and master...unless I were to say someone made something *look* easy and I think I *mastered* the butterfly (that is I don't thwack myself doing it)...you know?Where's that URL tracer when you want it?
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So who do you think it is FF? I have some guesses
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(and no, this time it wasn't me!)------------------Pele Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir...http://www.pyromorph.com


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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Posted:I suppose I should set the record straight since I've been called a hypocrite a couple time on this thread. Not that I didn't expect some people would not like what I posted, but maybe I can provide some more insight. Firstly, Twist, coming to a board that also extends into a commercial enterprise does rubs me the wrong way. Here's the reason I post here anyway. Many folx come to this site because there's noone in their area to give them knowledge and guidance. I've had the great blessing of receiving much help and support from my senior fire performers where I live. I seek to help here with whatever knowledge and ethics I've been able to gleen from them. I come here and post because I have a higher priority in making sure that those folks taking up fire are doing so safely and with consciousness. Adam, I understand you have particular reasons for doing what you do. I'm still entitled to my opinion. My major argument is not that you're making money from what you like to do or even that your sell fire tools. My major argument is that selling fire tools indescriminantly creates an atmosphere of depersonalization. Where I came up as a fire performer, guidance and initiation is very important. The ideal is teaching for love of sharing and helping your students build their tools. I know this ideal is not the all-being reality, but I present the ideal as still a possibility. BTW, the kind of shows I do, for the most part, are tightly bound within my community. I'm sure I've done as many benefit shows as I've done for-pay shows. Shows which I invite people personally and send announcements through 'family' networks. As I invited you personally. The fact is I *lost* money on the event you attended. I lost *a lot* of money. I did it to manifest the vision I was given and for the love of doing it. The fact is, folx, I don't need to come here. I have a lot a personal resources I can consult with when I need help. I come here to be of service and to engage in interesting discussions. I really don't need people trying to trash me personally for my opinions. Thank you,Diana

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flash fire
flash fire

Sporadically Prodigal
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Member Since: 25th Jan 2001
Total posts: 2758
Posted:I feel bad that you feel affronted Diana. I think your input onto this board is really important and you frequently offer differing and valuable opinions and perceptions. I'd personally like you to stay.

HoP Posting Guidelines
Is it the Truth?
Is it Fair to all concerned?
Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?
If you can answer YES to these 4 questions then you may post a reply.

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dask
member
Location: BzH-=-France
Member Since: 5th Jun 2001
Total posts: 53
Posted:Diana,I don't write often on this board because my english is really bad. But I read it almost everyday and your posts have always been very instructive for me. Keep on writing please. a lot of people enjoy to read your posts even if they don't take the time to say it
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You are in the few of this board who gave me enough energy, motivation ,self-confidence and knowledge to learn to spin fire alone.Now I learn two friends to spin fire and If I compare my level to other fire spinners I can humbly say that I'm not too bad.Thank you for all.Dask


o]-[DasK]-[o

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Cassandra
Cassandra

Froggie ... Ribbit !!!
Location: Back in Paris... for now !
Member Since: 8th Jun 2001
Total posts: 4224
Posted:Hey, Diana, I am with dask and Flash Fire all the way.Your posts teach me a lot, and I am very thankful for that, really.And the reason why I think the board is so rich is that there are people like you and also totally different kind of people.Most of the time, we share and express different ways of seeing things. It is really healthy and dynamic...If we all agreed, all thought the same and all did the same, I'd be bored to death
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I guess you would not feel that bad if instead of being all behind our computers we'd be sitting together, drinking tea and chatting, cause you'd see the faces and the smiles and things would probably look a lot softer.Take care and please keep shining hereCassandra


"I want brown bread... no, that is diesel oil..."
"So I was raised in Europe, where History comes from ..."
"NON !!! La Plume de mon oncle n est pas Bingibangibungi !!!"

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nomad
nomad

retired
Location: Paris, France
Member Since: 15th Jan 2001
Total posts: 356
Posted:I have to agree with my cousin frogs on this one. Keep posting Diana, you always bring something to the plate.

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adamrice
adamrice

poo-bah
Location: Austin TX USA
Member Since: 19th Dec 2000
Total posts: 1015
Posted:Diana--It wasn't my intention to trash you personally, and I apologize if I came off that way. But when I catch a someone in an apparent contradiction, I'll call him on it.I am mindful of the depersonalization issue. It's part of the reason I don't have anything like "click here to add this to your cart" on my site--people e-mail me, we discuss what they want, and I have a (admittedly limited) chance to get to know them and to feel them out.I agree that having a local community to come up in is a great thing, but it is obvious that not everyone has that luxury, and there are certain contributors to this very list among them.I'm sorry you didn't make a profit on that show--it was worthy of one. I know someone locally in the same boat--she produced a magnificent fire-show, lost her shirt, and had to sell her house to cover the losses.

Laugh while you can, monkey-boy

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Posted:Well, as one of your customers, Adam, I have to say I really appreciated the chance to buy ready-made poi. I have a spanner, a rasp, and some allan keys here, which are going to have to come halfway round the world and back again home with me. So buying enough tools to make poi was not really an option.Its nice when equipment is made by people you know or yourself but its just not always possible. My boots and backpack, items Im deeply attached to, are both factory made. My memories entangled in them only start from the day they arrived on my doorstep. And to me, they are no different certainly no less dangerous or spiritual than fire gear.I think people who try to personalize retail and get back to cottage industry style should be commended. Lynleyps. Incidentally, Im Malcolms customer too, since I sent a beginner set to my cousin. It would surely have been better for me to be there and help her make a set and show her how to use it but, well, life and geography doesnt always behave like that.

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alterego
alterego

Warm beer is infinitely colder than no beer
Location: Boulder, Co
Member Since: 4th Jul 2001
Total posts: 222
Posted:Dask, your English is oustanding. ;oPLove always,Spanky

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Code128
member
Location: Boston, MA USA
Member Since: 6th Jul 2001
Total posts: 69
Posted:Okay a few things to add.Spanky, it sounds like you are getting the everlivin shit beat of you. What in the world is on the end of the poi that you are practicing with? Perhaps you are using a mace or something of that nature by accident.Cassandra I find your posts to be invaluable to the spirit of this place. Personally I get a feeling from your words that you might have been better off being a performer in the Middle Ages, perhaps we could have been part of the same fire Guild. Its a much different world now (as you know i'm sure) but whatever you can do to make the world a less corporate place and get people to remember that they are simply social animals, I applaud.Lastly mrmo_nyc. Your piece to start this thread is pure genius. (See what has the police HOT under the COLLER Nobody told THESE kids not to play with matches We take you into the dangerous world of illegal firetwirling NEXT!)Lines like that are what make me look forward to participating in this board. "Tonight on Fox, one of the 2 major Colas is deadly!!, We'll tell you which one tonight at 11:00"In closing I think to make sure that this doesnt turn into a fad we should release very inexpensive versions of fire poi and fire staffs, mass market them at Kmart and Wal-Mart and then abruptly pull them from the shelves amidst swirling rumors of kids, pets, and nuns getting viciously burned. Watch how quickly the tide of this fad will turn. But remember we must market to young kids, no pretense of responisble use. LaterCode128

------------------
A.N.T.H.E.L.I.O.N

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vyvyan
vyvyan

journeyman
Location: tell me when you find me
Member Since: 13th Dec 2000
Total posts: 92
Posted:fad? Who gives a? As long as i'm having damn good fun I dont care if suddenly its soooooo cool and sooo alterna-teen. It's history repeating. FAD implies they'll get over it and soon once again fire will be the sole domain of pyros and freaks. Like how many people actually long term love stinking like kero, getting black sooty crap all over the house and fuel soaked into everything you own? and having the hands of a bricklayer? Only the diehards. those who reeaaaaaallly dig it. We'll all still be here long after any fad has run its course. yeeehaa and long live the pyros.

...Firebreathing? Magic is only part of it my friend, diet does the rest!

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clarkey
member
Location: stratford-upon-avon, UK
Member Since: 19th Jul 2001
Total posts: 29
Posted:Whoooaa, this thread has taken me ages to get through, i've forgotten half the things i was going to add.Anywayz, in the UK i think poi is still very rare, you only really come across twirlers at festivals and the like. When i wanted to get into it there was no shop i could go and buy them in... that i had heard of or could find anyway. This site was the first i found and definitely the best. Malcolm sent the poi internationally and they came in perfect condition in about 4 days, which i was amazed about, considering they'd come half way round the globe. I had looked at making some for myself but i could never get a decent look at anyone elses.I think everyone on this forum should stay and write as everyone has a different and relative viewpoint. I think its great that like minded people can air their opinions and chat internationally. Keep on Twirlin!!

The best way to predict the future is to invent it

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Acid
member
Location: Israel
Member Since: 29th Jul 2001
Total posts: 110
Posted:poipleI have that feeling that all of a sudden tons of kids "know" how to spinbut it truthfully doesn't matter.It's either you got it or you don't.Ff someone is just spinning for attention you can see itit's not coming from the insidebut...that's also okand when he realizes it's not doing what he wants it to do for him he'll stopthat's the difference...if someone can make sense of this please inform me. thanx peace, love and fireNoa[This message has been edited by Acid (edited 02 August 2001).]

life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans John Lennon

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Annie C
member
Location: London, UK
Member Since: 31st Jul 2001
Total posts: 40
Posted:Nice to see another clarkey out there...Yes a lengthy read but interesting, I have spent most of the day listening in...but I must agree with Mr Clarke...as long as you are enjoying yourself..FAD's, trends, fashions shouldn't matter here. The less materialistic we are about the whole scene the better. Just swing yer bits and hope you don't hurt yourself or anyone else.....It's entertainment and fun and we all have a bloody good laff doing it.....Did you know that Poi is also a Hawaiian drink made from a root......!!Fantastic......
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Posted:I think a lot of people here are forgetting what attracted them to poi in the first place. Did you start doing it because you thought you would look cool doing it? Orwas it because when you watched someone spinning for the first time and it left you floored in awe and wonder. Didn't you start spinning and keep spinning because of the intensity of the experience itself and how wonderful it feels to give others such an amazing visual show. It is about altering sensation and perception and through that altering consciousness. Why should we be so selfish as to say who can have that and who can't. I think its a pretty good reflection on our society to say that biggest fad this month isn't about a material object its about an experience.(i.e. the comment about all the kids spinning anything they can get hands on). What better thing to have as a fad! Its not about a style or a media icon. It's about an ancient art that induces a trance state. The fact that we live in a society that is so against altered states it says alot that so many kids are breaking free of the social/media brainwashing about what is good and what is bad and they are embracing this wonderful art! Maybe most of them even know it is an ancient art but they inately feel it. It would almost seem that this makes some spinners here feel uncomfortable because they don't look as cool anymore being that they are not the only one who can do it. These are the same people who claim everyone is doing it now to be cool! Exactly, who is trying to be cool here? Anyways, besides the need to be careful with fire (most newbies use glowsticK) and the potential of a anti-fire law because of too many accidents(another issue), I think it would be incredible to walk down a street and see hundreds of lights and balls of fire being swung all overt the place. And I think more people should take up stilt walking and drumming and any other form ofsensory stimulation and the world should become one big cirque du soleil

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clarkey
member
Location: stratford-upon-avon, UK
Member Since: 19th Jul 2001
Total posts: 29
Posted:Well in lucid!!

The best way to predict the future is to invent it

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Posted:WowThis is an interesting subject and very passionate responses by all.A little over two years ago I hired a fire twirler for a party I was havingI fell in loveAt this time I had already learned how to blow and eat fire from my twin sister who has done it for years at Ren fests So I balled up some football socks and stuck them into the end of a pair of cut off tights and for the next 5 months I practiced everyday for 3 hours.I tried repeatedly to ask for assistance and was met with resistance at every turn because of the elitist attitude some of the local fire community possessed at the time. Every opportunity I had I researched, technique, safety , fuel and I am proud on this day to say that almost everything I know about fire, I taught myself. The first time I lit up was magic and I was really goodwithin a month I was doing paid shows and a few months later started my own troupe and it had been an amazing and life changing and crazy and sometimes painful but moat of the time satisfying experience (weve been paid to go to other parts of the country and perform..how cool is that??)Now; not only do I do poi, but I do, fire fingers, fire staff, fire batons, fire fans, fire sticks, fire eating and blowing, fire transfer, fire sculpture, I have built my own flaming costumes..I have made most of my own tools but I have also worked with Adam rice (Can I say how excited I am for our most recent creation!!!!!)who I look to for assistance because of his experience.I also am proud to say that everything I know about fire I will teach someone else and I mean everything.. I teach classes now twice a week, I charge 10-15 dollars and hour sliding scale but have never turned anyone away because of lack of money. I charge because my blue collar background says to me for some reason that if they are willing to pay for it they are willing to do the work it takes to do it safely and beautifully.The one thing I have noticed about this thread is that it is really focused on poiI have found in my experience that the people who are the best at this fire thing and who get the shows are the people who put on shows..which means more than just poi, more than just spinningmy favorite fire artists are those who tell me a story, those who paint a picture for meIn my group we rarely do shows that are improvisational, we work around a lot of different themes..for example I am working on a version of the Persephone MythBut even when the person I am watching isnt particulary skilled it is still a pleasure to watch because you see the buety in their face (if its not to dark).Fire is a new and exciting medium for artistic expression.. so is clay, metal, oil paint etc.. You will have your elementary school pictures and you will have your davincis and you will have your artists that throw a bunch of paint on to a canvas in front of an airplane jet and get paid millions..I dont know if I really have a point with all this but I just wanted to say something. I have always had a hard time when people started throwing around terms like FAD and commercialized.I admit freely that I like s things that possibly 75% of society likes. I do things that 75% of society does.I wont stop or get an attitude just because the masses are catching on..There are certain things in my life that I pray to the goddess would become a fad..Like well being, witchcraft, pro-choice, artistic expression of any kind, open mindedness.peace,community......DoniaIgnis Devoco Industrial Fire Circuswww.ignisdevoco.com"Where ther is sorrow, I seek the flame."Rumi

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bec
bec

member
Location: Brisbane, Queensland, Australi...
Member Since: 15th Jan 2001
Total posts: 521
Posted:yum... thank you for sharing your story...

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'trope
member
Location: brooklyn, ny
Member Since: 13th Jul 2001
Total posts: 12
Posted:i used to make my own equipment but now i buy everything but my handles from adam... i love the way ball chain looks and feels and i don't got the time no'mo...anyway...mr. mo, your post cracked me up - nice one... not to scare anyone, but i didn't see the firescape episode although my friend did and said it was pretty bad...i think i've seen worse tho. i was doing freelance photo editing work at (ahem, shut up, everyone needs money) seventeen magazine a few weeks ago, and had to flip through a competitor's magazine... in the front, in one of those pages with tons of 'buy this, try this!' pages, was a smiling teen with glowstick poi, seemingly doing the windmill...i have a hard time not saying 'remember when' - given that i live in such a quickly gentrifying neighborhood... oh, it all hurts. nothing's sacred.

For a charm of pow'rfull trouble.Like a hell-broth, boil and bubble.Double, double, toil and trouble,Fire burn and cauldron bubble. - bill s...

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Neonstarr
Neonstarr

stranger
Location: NZ
Member Since: 30th Oct 2012
Total posts: 2
Posted:Its cultural here, we get taught poi in primary school to go along with Kapahaka (just without the fire).
A bunch of primary student with fire poi's would be pretty awesome to see though..


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beaniebob
casually noob tech poi spinrar
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Member Since: 22nd Nov 2010
Total posts: 155
Posted:That would be awesome yeah, but maybe not as awesome as an 11 year necro lol tongue2

Since this is from 2001, I think we can safely assume that the poi fad, if it ever did happen (I wouldn't know, I wasn't even 10 back then XD), has passed by now though.

EDIT: Read some of the posts here, for what it's worth, idunno about how gear and stuff was 11 years ago, but personally, I spin poi for the spinnan. Gear doesn't really matter to me haha.

EDITED_BY: beaniebob (1352197448)


"If all else fails, immortality can always be assured by spectacular error."

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Man_in_the_mask
specializes in the potentially insane
Location: California
Member Since: 21st Aug 2012
Total posts: 130
Posted:"the reason Poi is taking off so quick is because its so bloody easy to do..

why spend years learnign a skill when you can MASTER poi in an afternoon."

sorry to burst your bubble but there's alot more to the art than what one could learn in an afternoon.


"We all wear masks, and the time comes when we cannot remove them without removing some of our own skin..."

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Man_in_the_mask
specializes in the potentially insane
Location: California
Member Since: 21st Aug 2012
Total posts: 130
Posted:ive ran into a few myself and may have encouraged the scene a little. i now have at least 3 or 4 people constantly coming up to me with shoelace-glowstick/stuffed sock improvised practice sets asking how do i do this how do i do that blah blah blah. died down considerably but around halloween everywhere i went in the small little community i live in i saw at least one person with glowsticks getting their "poi" tangled, hitting themselves, and everything else under the sun. . .

"We all wear masks, and the time comes when we cannot remove them without removing some of our own skin..."

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beaniebob
casually noob tech poi spinrar
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Member Since: 22nd Nov 2010
Total posts: 155
Posted:Originally Posted By: Man_in_the_mask"the reason Poi is taking off so quick is because its so bloody easy to do..

why spend years learnign a skill when you can MASTER poi in an afternoon."

sorry to burst your bubble but there's alot more to the art than what one could learn in an afternoon.

I'm fairly certain the guy who posted that was trying to stir censored up for no reason lol.


"If all else fails, immortality can always be assured by spectacular error."

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Man_in_the_mask
specializes in the potentially insane
Location: California
Member Since: 21st Aug 2012
Total posts: 130
Posted:yeah. could sorta see that one. it's taken me what feels like an eternity to learn what i've learned and even then theres still so much to learn and get down. to this date i can barely get a 3beat btb weave and ive been trying for full btb for nearly a year now.

"We all wear masks, and the time comes when we cannot remove them without removing some of our own skin..."

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Trybal Wolf
Trybal Wolf

Wolf Furry
Location: Earth
Member Since: 3rd Jul 2012
Total posts: 517
Posted:The way I see it, even if poi does become a fad, it doesn't really matter. That is to say that ALL FADS END. A fad is just that, a fad. Fads are not permanent.
If poi becomes a fad, that changes nothing. Poi is an ancient art form, therefore it will always be.

Poi if you let it, becomes a part of who you are. It changes the way you think and the way you view things.
If poi becomes a fad, it will cease to be a fad. Then, the ones who have let poi a part of their identity will remain while those who have not will simply dissapear.


I'd rather die on paws, than live on feet.

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