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NYC_not_PK


NYC_not_PK

One Tyred Guy
Location: Camaiore, Lu, Italy

Total posts: 203
Posted:It's been kind of strange, but Ive been running into firespinners WHEREEVER I go. Maybe I just have been hanging in different circles that I usually do, or staying up later. Or maybe the art is approaching a FAD! NOOOOoooooooo!Yes, its true, everywhere I look theres a pair of something being spun on a string. Im sure that there is tons of logical cross over from the rave/club crowd which is certainly popular right now. With the growth of even this website its obvious that fire twirling is all-the-rage.My point is not to slam the newbies (as I am one myself) nor to slam fads in general but merely to warn my beloved Vets who havent yet seen the coming flood. Dont worry, it will pass.No need for the I remember when X was cool before everyone started doing it (Let X represent Fire poi, Burning Man, glow sticks, leg wraps, neighborhood coffee shops, whatever)Dont get upset when FOX NEWS features some really HORRIBLE fire twirlers and an awful commercial (See what has the police HOT under the COLLER Nobody told THESE kids not to play with matches We take you into the dangerous world of illegal firetwirling NEXT!)Gap ads, the whazzup guys, Nike spots, half-time shows, "I'm MrMo and my anti-drug is fire," the next Tom Hanks/Meg Ryan movie I have looked into my crystal ball and seen it all. My advise? Easy: #1: Relax. Just because everyone else is doing it doesnt mean that its not still cool. If youre a pro you just became a hero to thousands.#2: Cash in. Hey, you did it before might as well get paid in full for doing it now. Offer paid lessons by the hour? Offer demos? Put out a hat? Buy stuff on this website and sell it for double? Er wait scratch that last one.#3: Be patient. Dont worry this too shall pass. Right now someone is concocting the next Macarena, Pet Rock, Hula Hoop, Pokeman, or Cabbage Patch Kid and then well be right back where we started. Im not trying to prophesize the apocalypse, nor am I playing the Old immigrants make fun of the new immigrants game. Its just an observation. Call me a crackhead if you like but I know that some of you see it too.

PK is a god.. i love the Peeekster.

.:PK:. [poiinthepark founder member]


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing smileSTAY SAFE! hug

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target


member
Location: Baltimore, MD, US

Total posts: 2
Posted:...seeing fire poi on Farscape was just a little too much for me. I think I need to find another 'odd' hobby.-rob-------------------rob (banz@membrain.com)

-rob (banz@membrain.com)

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flash fire
BRONZE Member since Jan 2001

flash fire

Sporadically Prodigal
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia

Total posts: 2758
Posted:o yes,,,, we've seen the tsunami and have watched its advancement for a while now.all we can do is wait for it to wash over and maybe have a little fun in the froth?::cringes at stupid analogy::I'm gonna go find a related thread...bbs------------------"she dances in a ring of fire and throws off the challenge with a shrug"

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Posted:yer a crackhead!...but I think you are right
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I think there will be a proliferation of bad fire twirling...and if it draws attention away from the small / free outdoor trance scene, I'll be a happy happy person.I can imagine the days of having a simple twirl on the beach may be approaching an end tho - which is very sad IMHO...I doubt the fad will make it here tho, adelaide is too far removed...fads die out before they get here
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Josh


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flash fire
BRONZE Member since Jan 2001

flash fire

Sporadically Prodigal
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia

Total posts: 2758
Posted:couldn't find that thread.who's a crackhead Josh?

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Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?
If you can answer YES to these 4 questions then you may post a reply.

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Superman
BRONZE Member since Mar 2001

Superman

member
Location: Houston, Texas, USA

Total posts: 829
Posted:this is a good thread.. watched it happen with the friends that initially taught me. they have all pretty much given up, and spin alone now. They dont want to fuck with it anymore. Now im lonely spinner. Thatswhy i look to you good people for support."S"------------------"When a Man Lies He Murders Some Part of the World These Are the PaleDeaths Which Men Miscall Their Lives All this I Cannot Bear to Witness Any Longer Cannot the Kingdom of Salvation Take Me Home"

Courage is resistance to fear, mastery of fear--not absence of fear.


- Mark Twain

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Twist


member


Total posts: 160
Posted:i don't think it has to be a "fad."there was a time when people studying martial arts in this country were a rarity. now even the smallest towns usually have at least one school.i don't want the attention to and increasing number of people doing this to pass. it is a good thing and it teaches balance. if more people do it perhaps more people will grow.

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alterego
BRONZE Member since Jul 2001

alterego

Warm beer is infinitely colder than no beer
Location: Boulder, Co, USA

Total posts: 222
Posted:I kind of liked it when I could go to the beach and spin and no one had seen it before, now if I go down their I have some insta-raver(1) begging me to use them so he can put his eye out trying to be cool.Love always,Spanky*Insta-raver: Someone who tried Ecstacy once, was impressed, so wears beads, baggy pants, and a visor, and probably doesent like any form of techno.

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Cassandra


Cassandra

Froggie ... Ribbit !!!
Location: Back in Paris... for now !

Total posts: 4224
Posted:Just wondering ... What is a FAD ?What does IMHO mean ?How do you make babies
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(first 2 questions are real though ... I'll figure third one by myself, thanks
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)As for this wave of newbies... i am one of them... And honestly, I really don't regret it ! Time will tell if the commitment is real . or just a "summer phase"
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... I fully agree with Twist on that, same thing happened to us in the aikido classes : sudden rush a few years ago, now calming down + people who are not passionnate really follow the seasons...In france the spinning/ twirling / fire scene is still really a small scene , but even so, every week end I see one or two people spinning here and there, obviously beginning. A friend of mine who owns a juggling shop says they are selling more and more every week.Wouldn't it be cool if Brad Pitt and Julia Roberts started spinning... imagine the TSUNAMI of newbies you'd have
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lol just kidding, don't give me that look !!!Shine onCassandra[This message has been edited by cassandra (edited 25 July 2001).]


"I want brown bread... no, that is diesel oil..."
"So I was raised in Europe, where History comes from ..."
"NON !!! La Plume de mon oncle n est pas Bingibangibungi !!!"

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Posted:hey i am a raver and i see the whole scene helplessly falling apart due to commercialization (not sure if thats a word)and stupid ass kids who go thinking their badass.And hopefully this will pass. ANd more so i hope that this does not happen to the fire twirling scene. Although it might be fun to see some prepy follow the leader kid smack himself in the head with a ball of fire, it would ruin the scene. plur (to bad it has no meaning or vibe anymore due to the trendy kids intruding.) mike

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Posted:I firstly want to speak to point advice #2, cuz I don't know how kidding you are, mrmo, or how kidding others may take it. I've noticed, to my dismay, a lot of folks creating a commercial entity out of fire performance. And I just want to weigh in saying "don't." Please folx, make your own tools. Then your tools become yours because you made them with your own hands. Don't charge for lessons. Teach one-on-one and check out your students thoroughly before you take them on in a serious way. I'm not saying keep all you skills a secret. I'm saying be discerning when you "take someone under your wing." I'd like to see fire play retain as much of the personal touch as possible. Diana

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Twist


member


Total posts: 160
Posted:erm.i have a somewhat argumentative question in response to this then...if you wish to keep spinning humanized and anti-corporate... is it contrary to participate in a digital bulletin board attached to a marketing endeavor?

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Posted:Twist,I think it is contrary only on a superficial level. If Malcolm was pushing his items *exclusively* through this board, and deleting responses recommending other shops then I would agree...but I think this board is a good representation of a community-regulated forum, where there is no real focus on the provider.Sure there are links at the top of the page - leading to the shop - but if you dont get forced to use em its a bit like a banner ad from a sponsor. It doesnt affect the discourse on the board...and I think the discourse is what makes this board what it is <phew>
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Diana is speaking uncensored. Therefore I guess I think that the relationship between the commercial nature of HOP and the community board, is very tenuous.sorry for the repetition.running on not enough sleep all week. Josh-3 more sleeps!


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plastikgirl


member
Location: Curitiba, PR, Brazil

Total posts: 41
Posted:huh, mrmo, you have a good point.this morning, there was a huge banner on my university's cafeteria...it was about a party, bla bla bla...and one of the attractions was "fire twirling/fire blowing". And know what? That made me VERY angry. You know why? Because EVERY party, mainstream or underground, has "fire twirling/fire blowing" performances around here.People, if you saw these 'performances', you would fall to the ground in agony.
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I saw people take two tennis balls and a string and make what they call "swing". That's it, that's what they call it. And then they spin them forwards, cross their hands a couple times and say "HEY!! I'm a fire twirler, hire me cause I'm pro".They learn two or three moves and ask a friend to talk to the friend of the friend of the friend of the cousin of the owner of the place/party. And there they go. Spin for 10 bucks, for two minutes, and are so lame that sometimes I wanna cry. I just have to walk away. They're prostituting (is that the word? not a native speaker
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) my passion.Thats why I dont spin for money. A lot of people ask me to do it, but I dont. I need the money, but I prefer to spin alone, or with my friends. I know I'm good at it, better than all those people, but... you know. Dont wanna get hurt.Sorry, I'm just soooo angry. I have to wait for the "flood" to go away. I found love when I discovered fire twirling (I've always been some kind of a pyromaniac), and I wanna keep doing it forever. It keeps me balanced and centered. It makes me feel good. It's my therapy.But hey, that's what happens to everything different, dangerous and cool, right? [image]http://www.homeofpoi.com/ubb/images/icons/frown.gif">------------------[/image][This message has been edited by plastikgirl (edited 25 July 2001).][This message has been edited by plastikgirl (edited 25 July 2001).]


Lady bug lady bug, fly away home. Your house is on fire, and your children will burn! Ashes, ashes, all fall down!!

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Posted:Personaly where I live I don't think Poi will ever become a fad because the only people who spin any form of poi are either in prison, detention, or just being a menace to society (whatever that means) so that almost nobody sees the spin, and if they do, they are so drunk or high on dope, the don't remember it along with the rest of the night. I'm not saying that this is normal for all poi spinners, or I stereotype anyone else into that catagory without reason. I just want to tell u guys/girls that there will still be one small insignificant dot on the map where poi will always be an art for the chosen people (us, of course)

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Posted:I disagree with unoboy7000, poi spinners are not necisarily menaces to society. But I do agree that in some places Poi shall never be a fad, for exsample where I live a fair number of poeple spin poi but there not the sort of people every one wants to imitate. A couple of wanabe poi spinner bother me every now and then and they usualy walk away thinking they will never have kids (it was there fault not mine, i'm not implying asualt). But with time a small cliche of poi spiners has arose.I can tell unoboy7000 must not spin poi.

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Posted:where do you live unoboy?we might need to come hide there when the rest of the world gets overrun by Bad Twirlers(tm)Josh

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adamrice


adamrice

poo-bah
Location: Austin TX USA

Total posts: 1015
Posted:I must respond to Diana's post here. I am one of those people creating a "commercial entity" out of fire equipment. (actually, the phrase was "fire performance", and I'll take money for that too, but let's stick to equipment, since that was the point of her post).The label is a little overblown in my case, because I make 2-4 sales a week. But part of the reason I do it is because I can make a profit on it. I say that without any embarrassment.But making and selling the equipment also appeals to the tinkerer inside me, and it puts me in contact with a lot of other fire-people, which is another big part of the reason I do it.And finally, frankly, I think that I am providing a service to the community. For one thing, it would be pretty expensive to make one set of equipment using the same methods that I do, because of the investment in tools (some of which are obscure and somewhat pricey) and materials (some of which are only available in bulk). For another thing, I get to see a lot of the equipment my customers are already using, including grips made of lightweight leather and no grommets (threatening to fail catastrophically), wicks with huge eyelet bolts poking out the bottom, chains that can entangle easily and disentangle only with difficulty. Etc.And as long as I'm talking, I'll put in a good word for Malcolm: the fact that he allows me on this board at all, plus the fact that he has a shop directory (http://www.homeofpoi.com/retail.htm), clearly shows that he does not have the raw mercenary attitude that seems to be implied by the phrase "commercial enterprises". He is clearly providing a (free) service to the community, and if he can manage to make a few bucks in the process, more power to him.Finally, I will mention that I have paid money to see Diana perform. Now, I think it was worth it, but is there a little bit of pot-calling-kettle-black going on here?

Laugh while you can, monkey-boy

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Twist


member


Total posts: 160
Posted:i'd like to echo the compliments to malcolm. i send all people interested in purchasing/making/or learning poi to this site... there's a reason why this site was in the recent article in the seattle paper... it helps people with no other means get started. the fact that malcolm foregrounds community and the art over sales makes me and many others all the more willing to purchase from him.i agree wholeheartedly with adam. the fact is that many people will not take the time and effort to make quality tools... and manufacturing them simply improves the quality.again, does the fact that there are 4 zillion kung fu movies out there (created for profit) at all diminish the impacts the practice of kung fu can have on an individual life?twirling is a good thing. whether people buy their sets or make them... whether everybody is doing it or you're the only one for a thousand miles... it truly should not matter. if it does i think the attention a person is getting is more important than the spiritual/physical satisfaction. i say this coz i'm in it more for the satisfaction... and whether or not britney spears is hawking poi on mtv is not going to change that for me.

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Superman
BRONZE Member since Mar 2001

Superman

member
Location: Houston, Texas, USA

Total posts: 829
Posted:hmmmmm...Britney Spears spinning some Poi..id pay to see her Poi....
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[image]http://www.homeofpoi.com/ubb/images/icons/shocked.gif">"S"------------------[/image]He Murders Some Part of the World These Are the PaleDeaths Which Men Miscall Their Lives All this I Cannot Bear to Witness Any Longer Cannot the Kingdom of Salvation Take Me Home"


Courage is resistance to fear, mastery of fear--not absence of fear.


- Mark Twain

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Pele
BRONZE Member since Dec 2000

Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA

Total posts: 6193
Posted:Here we go....Thank you Super for keeping it real, that was funny. I hope, if she does, she sticks with stix as I hear silicone is flammable!!
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Second, about Adam and Malcolm and selling toys. I think they are providing a service where there is a demand. I think that people can buy the tools all they want, it doesn't mean they can or know how to use them. I made my own set of "comet"-practice poi, which are heavy and I take pride in. I got a set of Comets from Malcolm for my audience to play with. I, er..we..Prome helps, make all my fire gear but I hate making wicks, thus I am having Adam make some for me. It is not so commercial as it is supply and demand. I see no ads on tv for it, though it is taking the media by storm, for certain....as does every other fad..and yes, I think it is a fad.Here is what I have seen, and can illustrate. Go through the message board archives back into January...how many of the names do you still see on here today? I have been on this board nearly a year now and have seen people come and go. SOme have given up spinning (i still converse with them on email) and some used this board as a source of info which they think they have transcended need of, some just left and no one knows why. My point. There were many people who started spinning for the oooh look at me factor and when people stopped looking they went onto something else. This seems to be doing that too, media is just jumping on late.As for performing for pay. It's what I do. I am a fire whore but I don't come cheaply. There is commercialism in it, definately. It is my income. Along those lines I will agree with those who say the ones who can do three moves then perform for beer really hurt the professional market, not only by doing what is called "underbidding" to get a job but also by not fully representing fire performing in the professional and responsiblw way it could and should be showcased. That pisses me off. Those who perform and do it badly reflect badly on everyone else. I think that is part of the point Diana was trying to make. If someone better than me takes the stage, then kudos and no problem. But if I am bumped off a stage because someone is cheaper, and less skilled performance wise, then I get pissy. This not only applies for fire but for all aspects of my performing.Fads are a commercial industry, it is what makes them fads, they are a quick money maker. The fact that every store in the local mall sells some form of LED or glowstick thing reassured me of this fad. HOWEVER, it will wear off and the rest of us will remain behind. To perform still in our own way, which makes this entrancing (hopefully) to someone who has seen it a million times.My opinion of the subject is unless you feel you are stricken by the fad, then what difference does it make to you? We will be here long after to repair the image damage the fadders have created and to continue on in our blissfully pyrotic lives, and if I can make a buck or a hundred along the way then I say I will dammit!
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My best to all.------------------Pele Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir...http://www.pyromorph.com


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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pyro_teknik


member
Location: england wiltshire under stoneh...

Total posts: 51
Posted:I was discussing this subject a few days ago with some friends, about the whole FAD thing and I can totally understand. The main worry is when you start seeing 'Major' toy companies selling zuni style poi (please stop me if this already has happened) and then it comes to TV adverts 'horrible hula hoop flashbacks'
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I think poi is an art and I feel that if comercialisation waters it down it will have quite an imapct on it.But I'll still be spinning this time next year weather its popular or not. peace


handlebar moustaches are funny :)

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mikeyb


member
Location: Oxford, UK

Total posts: 93
Posted:Pele mentioned the issue of underbidding to get a gig.I've done a few gigs for money. I consider that to be reasonable. I've worked hard at my skills, I've taken my fair share of bruises, I risk burns every time I light up, either for my own pleasure or someone else's and there are people who want to pay for performances. And if I perform away from home, there's travel expenses and so forth to consider.I want to be fair. I took the knocks, other people took the knocks too. Other people made the effort to learn and practice, as I did. I have no desire to underbid just to get work - that means either less work for everyone else or less money for everyone, including me!But I have no idea what the market rate IS. Without wanting to start a cartel or anything, would it be helpful to run a 'pricewatch' thread in Performances so we can figure out what Market Rate actually means for various sorts of performance in various markets / countries / whatever?mikeyB

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Liquid


member
Location: Raleigh, North Carolina, Unite...

Total posts: 28
Posted:I realy dont think its a FAD I see it every were I go, IM always the best at it, and thats one thing you have to remember. who is good and who is not. If you dont want people to learn how to do it, dont show them. Tell them it took you along time to learn on your own with out any help so you dont like teaching people. People that go to raves call them parties, people that dont call them raves. Parties get so much crap because like Poi every one has to tell every one that has no clue about it about itand what EXACTLY goes on at them or in Poi's case how to do it. See what I mean. its only a fad if you make it one. Like I was saying earlier If your at a party and put on a show and your good like I am. No on pays attention to some goof ball that just swings them in circles. and if they are Then they are on some thing a blinking flash light would be cool to them. But me. I'm good ( not to brag just trying to make a point) and put on an awsome show to were I rub the top layer of my skin off on my fingers from spinning them so fast and going crazy with it. Thats what people remember. I lived in ST.louis and killed any one that thought they were good. I dallas for raves all the time with my friends that do it. When we make a circle for our seleves to do it. The next thing I know 50 people are sitting around the circle waching us. I had people call me in St.louis to see if I was going to the next dallas rave becuase they liked getting messed up and watching some one that actualy knows what he is doing. Yes i hate seeing these idiot try to do it, but that it. I see them I dont watch them. I want to help them but I dont. If they realy want to get get at it they can figure it out on there own. I will stop now or I will write a six page essay. Plus arguing with your self get old after a whileTake it easyPLUR for all the non raversPeaceLoveUnityRespectPlus if you know of any good rave site that actualy have info and not just a nother ,, my name is BOB I go to raves, here are some pics of me and my friends ,, sites let me knowThanks

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Liquid


member
Location: Raleigh, North Carolina, Unite...

Total posts: 28
Posted:sorry about all the typos In that last one its 6
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o am and I have not slept yetsory take it esy haha


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Posted:the reason Poi is taking off so quick is because its so bloody easy to do..why spend years learnign a skill when you can MASTER poi in an afternoon.

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dcansee


member
Location: london, uk

Total posts: 11
Posted:Unfortionatly it seems to be like most underground things, As soon as they get noticed the eventually get commercialised....There are loads of little poi freaks around my area that spin but not for the fun of it... Just to say that they do this because they want to be different.. Be noticed...If you love the art and truly enjoy it then you wont just drop it because ur not different nomore... Do it for the entertainment and the enjoyment that it passes onto you...HAVE FUN!!! NO COMPLICATIONS!!!Keep on it and dont stop for no one....

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Superman
BRONZE Member since Mar 2001

Superman

member
Location: Houston, Texas, USA

Total posts: 829
Posted:i really dont think its that much of a fad...Wehn i go to raves, out of the 2,000 people that are there, youll see 15 people spinning. And only about 6 of them are decent, then 2 of them are pretty good, and one of them actually know where it came from.And Poi being mastered in an afternoon??? I admit i picked up pretty quick, but i think most people pick up the basics quickly. Then they plateau for about 4-6 months and usually quit. I am finally coming out of my flatline, and i am learning how to flow with the Poi, instead of forcing them to do what i want.As far as the Zuni's. The only place that sold them here in Houston was the "Store of Knowledge" (it had games, puzzles, educational type stuff) and...they closed down. I dont see them being sold on info-mercials anytime soon.."S"------------------"When a Man Lies He Murders Some Part of the World These Are the PaleDeaths Which Men Miscall Their Lives All this I Cannot Bear to Witness Any Longer Cannot the Kingdom of Salvation Take Me Home"

Courage is resistance to fear, mastery of fear--not absence of fear.


- Mark Twain

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Liquid


member
Location: Raleigh, North Carolina, Unite...

Total posts: 28
Posted:exactly. poi is a sport. Its cool people like it but not every one is Mike Jordan. its like a white boy in the ghetto, sure there are a some, but only a few get respected in the area. look at it like break dancers, get a crew together and battle people. I can break dance well i can six step that is. but im no good. I dont think poi is that easy. I got realy good at it. its the people that blow your mind away that get respected. i like to think im good at it but every time i practice a while i learn some thing new. most people are not goping to put much time in to at home. more kids are doing it at raves just to keep there hands moving while they are rolling,

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alterego
BRONZE Member since Jul 2001

alterego

Warm beer is infinitely colder than no beer
Location: Boulder, Co, USA

Total posts: 222
Posted:quote:the reason Poi is taking off so quick is because its so bloody easy to do..why spend years learnign a skill when you can MASTER poi in an afternoon.I saw someone spin for my first time at a club in Tijuana, Mexico and I was enthralled, and he sucked. I live on a Navy ship so I knew no one else that did it and had no one to teach me. I spent two weeks in front of a mirror trying to do a figure eight, however I didnt know what the hell a figure eight was. Once I got it I about jumped through the roof, and I wanted to know more so I looked around and found this site. 8 months later I, like most of the people here, have yet to meet someone better then me. (I hope this changes the 30'th when I meet Josh
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) ) I hit myself in the eye with a glowstick a couple months ago and went blind in my right eye for 3 days and was hospitalized for a week, which motivated me more. I have a bruise on my left thigh the size of a baseball and dark brown because I cant get down a btb crossover, and I cant count the number of times I've racked myself, busted my lip, left bumps on my head and hit myself so hard I wanted to cry (or did), lets not get into burns.Now you have the gall to come in here and make it sound like a simpletons dreamscape. I agree that its a fad, but only because people like you cant respect the hard work that people put into it. It's my hobby, its my stress relief, and sometimes its my religion. I meet people through it, I get applauded for it, and I feel great no matter what when its around me.It's a fad for some people, but I will never stop spinning. I will never accept the fact that someone has mastered Poi either. The more I learn the easier it is to learn and the more to learn their is. If your coming to this board to brag and make yourself look better then everyone else your coming for the wrong reason. Love always,Spanky[This message has been edited by Spanky (edited 27 July 2001).]


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flash fire
BRONZE Member since Jan 2001

flash fire

Sporadically Prodigal
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia

Total posts: 2758
Posted:Hey Spanky...how does that bait taste??
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I dunno who created that little post, but it was obviously just a stir. No one in thier right mind would have the audacity to make such a comment in earnest.whenever I see little antagonistic posts like that one, I always have a good ol time trying to work out which one of the crazies on this board created it. keeps me thinking for a good 20 minutes or so!
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flash


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