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phunky
old hand
Location: Edmonton, AB
Member Since: 30th Jul 2001
Total posts: 877
Posted:I was watching the "Circles of light" video and only really 2 spinners really caught my eye. That being Jo Derry and Robert Micheal. I don't know if you would call this an advanced concept but from judging by the video and the clips availible on this site not too many people know about it. Myself and some friends call it the circle. I'll try to explain this the best i can.In my experience when spinning in front of people, you have to know the move you're doing and adjust so they so the whole picture. An example would be the weave. When viewed from the front (eye to eye with audience) it looks like 2 lines that erratically move. But from the side it looks like two nice circles moving, this is the effect you're looking for. Another example is the butterfly. This is sorta the opposite of the weave. When the butterfly is showned from the side it looks like an x (i've yet to see a totally perfect butterfly from the side like a straight line) but when showned face to face to your audience it looks like one circle whose light is bouncing off each other at the top and then bottom. And when done split time the light bounces at the sides of the circle back and forth. The only moves that don't really apply to this are x'ing, and quad-corkscrew and horizontal mexican wave.Anyways, to sum it up. Some moves look better from the right angle, that being the one that shows the circle. Always keep the circle to you're audience and they will be awed. If you still don't know what im talking about, look in a mirror and do the weave from the side and the front. One looks better than the other. At first i didn't understand this concept but it slowly sinks in and then you can't stand watching an erratic spinner because you can't see the circle. And as you know its all about the circle and really big bright lights
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------------------[]Dhuong-Vu Truong==== []Dhunky ====[This message has been edited by phunky (edited 02 August 2001).]



Peregrine
member
Location: Mystic, Ct. USA
Member Since: 12th Jan 2001
Total posts: 428
Posted:it is rare in my experience to have the audience, when i have one, be directly in front of you (like a videotaper)...they always end up gathering in a circle around me, so you have to change directions to give everybody a look. and the rest of the time im just twirling for my own enjoyment so i move around alot anyway
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just my thought i guess.Pere



phunky
old hand
Location: Edmonton, AB
Member Since: 30th Jul 2001
Total posts: 877
Posted:I know what you mean. It's not them that has to infront of you, you're the one that has face the move corrrectly to them. If there's a big circle of people then try to give everyone a look. But unless you're a performer you're probably only spinning with a couple of friends or spectators and just tell them to stand tight in together (which is mostly what they like to do anyways cuz they wanna talk).------------------[]Dhuong-Vu Truong==== []Dhunky ====[This message has been edited by phunky (edited 03 August 2001).]


Twist
member

Member Since: 4th Apr 2001
Total posts: 160
Posted:i dunno... I agree with Pere.... this represents kind of a rudimentary, stay in one spot perception of spinning... when i spin, i'm all over the place... i am rarely facing the same direction for more than two reps of a move... also... if your'e perpetually concerned with facing a proper direction, it prevents dance moves and choreographed motions...


adamrice
adamrice

poo-bah
Location: Austin TX USA
Member Since: 19th Dec 2000
Total posts: 1015
Posted:I'm with you, twist. I'd hate to just be standing there. Besides, it's probably more interesting to expose your audience to multiple angles.Performing live will be different from performing on video--what looks good in person might look flat on video. But since I'm mostly concerned with live performance, I'll stick with moving around.

Laugh while you can, monkey-boy


phunky
old hand
Location: Edmonton, AB
Member Since: 30th Jul 2001
Total posts: 877
Posted:I had the same argument with my friend when he first taught me it. I used facing the audience as just as an example because it was easier to write what the circle was. I can do the butterfly without facing head on with audience. The move just has to face correctly to the audience to see the light bouncing off each other. If you tell me the butterfly looks better when you don't see the circle and all you see is a crooked x then i'll stop now and forget i wrote all of this. Basically what im trying to say are moves are probably intended to be viewed from what they look best and thats what you try to give you're audience. So if theres a big crowd all around you, by all means go crazy and spin. But you don't have to be stationary to show the circle. I know im all over the place while the circle is facing the audience. So is Robert Micheal facing the camera. I don't even think about it anymore the circle is always facing the right way. I'm just going to leave it at that because i feel i'm going to get flamed or something because this isn't a "How do you do a weave" thread. It's an idea, you don't have to do it or anything, i'm just trying to share what i know.------------------[]Dhuong-Vu Truong==== []Dhunky ====


Twist
member

Member Since: 4th Apr 2001
Total posts: 160
Posted:hrrum...you're not being flamed
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lemme give an example of what i'm talking about...my standard opening combo is reverse butterfly, into forward butterfly to the left without turning, back to reverese into center, forward to the left...from there i take it over my head, turn 180, go over my head again, turn again, and then go behind my back...this requires constant turning... if i were preoccupies with "facing the right way" it would prevent my choreography,



phunky
old hand
Location: Edmonton, AB
Member Since: 30th Jul 2001
Total posts: 877
Posted:Thats perfect actually... hehyou're showing the circle without knowing it. I'm not talking about your body facing the right way im talking about always showing the good side of a move, you're body turning and everything has nothing to do with it.


bec
bec

member
Location: Brisbane, Queensland, Australi...
Member Since: 15th Jan 2001
Total posts: 521
Posted:I agree with the circles concept - you can still move around a lot and dance and choreograph and have lots of fun whilst still retaining a sense of how the "audience" (whether it be a flat video or a complete circle audience) is seeing you... sure in a full circle some people will not have the best view all the time, but there's a big difference watching someone who is aware of what it looks like from the outside and who plays to the audience and someone who is lost in their own world of fire (mind you I love watching people twirl like this sometimes too - especially when they are really good)point? I agree with what phunky is saying and just wanted to add that it doesn't mean you will be standing still and then turning 90degrees to face the audience/side... it's a good thing to keep in mind (especially when you a performing in a certain genre and want to engage and interact with the audience...) but of course there's always the other perspective of dancing/performing for *yourself* and not for the onlookers...


Finn
member
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Member Since: 23rd Dec 2000
Total posts: 341
Posted:I agree Phunky and Bec.
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It is all about your level of awareness. And... whether you are performing for an audience or yourself. Robert Michael's ability to do this was what really stood out when I watched circles of light.Finn
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Posted:eh, I think if you are an advanced enough twirler, you will have an awareness of the orientation of your spin plane(s) to your body symetry. Then all you need to do is direct your attention in a direction relative to your body...then everything will be exactly as you want it to be..in my case I'm looking for symetrical.with practice you can flow through - but if you pay attention to your spin plane, your body symetry and your gaze / attention you will always look good
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but then again..it's like comparing classical ballet with contemporary dance...they both have their merits, but are very different in style....Josh



s-p-l-a-t
member
Location: Brisbane, Qld, Australia
Member Since: 8th Mar 2001
Total posts: 383
Posted:hmmm.. I'm going to have to say that it depends I suppose on what your definition is on audience engagement/interaction. I personally believe as with anything, some people are much better than others and it doesn't necessarily have anything to do with whether your planes are being spun in the right facing direction. (Although often my audiences are in a circle around) ...I also believe if you have enough skill as a busker or performer, you can demonstrate your passion and talent while being constantly wrapped in your fire bubble... And I have to agree with Josh's last comment..it is like comparing coathangers to mothballs... or something?
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The beautiful thing about learning is that no one can take it away from you.- B.B.King


preambled
member
Location: auckland
Member Since: 7th Nov 2001
Total posts: 53
Posted:god it freaks me out to see people using my name on here, but anyway, um..in the circles of light video i wasn't really thinking all that much about the direction i was facing.it's only recently that i've started thinking about where the 'audience' is and how to make it look best for them.for the weave and associated moves i think a profile view is best, and for butterfly etc, facing the audience (or back to them) is best..but all in all, stuff the people watching, i'm having fun and i'll move all over the place
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Posted:agreed,alsosome whatchthe flame andsome watchthe danceboth are beutifull


Pele
Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA
Member Since: 15th Dec 2000
Total posts: 6193
Posted:Audience presence and audience awareness are some of the most important concepts in theater, no matter what form you are doing (Welcome to theater 101
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). Audience awareness is when you know to move a certain way to give the audience the best possible angle. In the COL video the two boys (Warren Hammond and Bob Thomson) had amazing audience awareness and they choreographed their movements as such, they didn't move too much (yes there is such a thing) but enough to keep interest and enough to make nice angles and views. I was very impressed with the in-sync long poi (I'd call it meteor but they only utilized one end). Jo Derry and Robert Michael both had strong audience presence...meaning they knew someone was watching and so did not move out of sight lines, yet still moved their bodies in a way that was interesting, comfortable appearing, but not necessarily to give the audience the best angles and views.I too enjoy Robert's segment very much but his brings to mind another theatrical issue...lighting
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. I would've loved to have seen exactly how you moved Robert but it was a bit hard in the darkness. Maybe I will have to save my full admiration for 2003?
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------------------Pele Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir...http://www.pyromorph.com


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK


Frenzie
member
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Member Since: 30th Jan 2001
Total posts: 515
Posted:I agree with Pele on the darkness issue. I think when people move beyond the "wow look at the fire" you want to see the body behind the flame and how they are moving. As for the audiences perception......as a twirler you may not give a rats ass what people watching you think and where you are positioned, but from being a part of an audience and being a performer you really do get to learn what people like to see, and like it or not, they like to see the best perspective.It is important when formulating a routine to consider this. Me and a friend have just finished a sync poi routine to perform and we changed stuff around to make sure that we gave the audience the best view of what we were doing, didnt compromise our moves at all, just adjusted the way we were facing.The difference is plainly obvious when you watch it on video.

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