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king


member
Location: Columbus, OH, America

Total posts: 15
Posted:This move involves starting off with the reverse buterfly whilst facing forward. Instead of threading one hand forward after the other, try threading back one hand after the other. Everything is completely opposite from the forward thread the needle. A move which is truly impressive to have and impress.King

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Myst


addict
Location: Oceanside, California, USA

Total posts: 439
Posted:I think I saw josh do a reverse thread the needle in the movie. It looks good in front of you but when I do it behind my head it doesn't look that different. Wasn't hard to learn behind the head, after you have the concept down.Eric

Its about talent, not make up or costumes.

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Posted:yeah I did it a couple of times in the movie...in one place I went from fwd TTN straight into Rvs TTN on the other side of my body...I prefer rvs - it feels more delicate
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JOsh


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Cassandra


Cassandra

Froggie ... Ribbit !!!
Location: Back in Paris... for now !

Total posts: 4224
Posted:Yeah, saw Josh do it on the video and I'll learn that next week end. The idea of fwd into rvrs etc. is real nice too ! thanks !
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Myst, what do you mean by behind the head thread the needle ? I am a rather souple girl, but to stretch my arms behind the head and THEN thread the needle ?????????????????????? didn't you mean over the head ? Shine onCassandra


"I want brown bread... no, that is diesel oil..."
"So I was raised in Europe, where History comes from ..."
"NON !!! La Plume de mon oncle n est pas Bingibangibungi !!!"

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Myst


addict
Location: Oceanside, California, USA

Total posts: 439
Posted:You got it right, I never thought about my wording on that one. Sorry. Eric

Its about talent, not make up or costumes.

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Cassandra


Cassandra

Froggie ... Ribbit !!!
Location: Back in Paris... for now !

Total posts: 4224
Posted:OK !
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It just sounded so amazing that I was almost ready to torture myself until I actually manage that one... you are saving me a lot of pain, Myst !
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Shine onCassandra


"I want brown bread... no, that is diesel oil..."
"So I was raised in Europe, where History comes from ..."
"NON !!! La Plume de mon oncle n est pas Bingibangibungi !!!"

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Myst


addict
Location: Oceanside, California, USA

Total posts: 439
Posted:LOL, I'm sorry, but what's stopping you from trying it behind your head? I'm sure it can be done, not a move I'm looking forward to trying but, go for it casandra.Eric

Its about talent, not make up or costumes.

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phunky


old hand
Location: Edmonton, AB

Total posts: 877
Posted:you can also try to do a forward and reverse thread the needle behind your back as well.

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Bassman


member
Location: Austin, TX, USA

Total posts: 95
Posted:Awe man! I totally thought you meant what you said. Previously I was working on trying to get behind the back TTN, but I was having a lot of trouble. Then I saw you post on behind the head TTN saying that it was really easy. So I figured if Myst had no trouble doing it, it must be easier than behind the back TTN, but when I tried it I found it to be pretty hard, although it feels more doable than the behind the back one cuz you don't have to stretch your arms quite as much. Anyway, I will be practicing this. If anybody gets this trick down let me knew.

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Cassandra


Cassandra

Froggie ... Ribbit !!!
Location: Back in Paris... for now !

Total posts: 4224
Posted:aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa...Tried yesterday evening the reverse TTN and I SUCK at it and I hurt myself !!!!!Need some help *please*
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question a) so far when I do the forward butterfly my right hand is "over" my left one and it is the opposite when I do the reverse (left "over" right). But having seen R. Mickael's video (really inspiring by the way !!!!) He seems to do forward butterfly with both hands above. So do u confirm that ?b) Josh, Myst, anyone... please explain the "trick" as I just keep messing the reverse allthough the forward TTN is really easy for me.Shine onCassandra


"I want brown bread... no, that is diesel oil..."
"So I was raised in Europe, where History comes from ..."
"NON !!! La Plume de mon oncle n est pas Bingibangibungi !!!"

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Myst


addict
Location: Oceanside, California, USA

Total posts: 439
Posted:Well Cassandra, since you know it forward there's nothing left for you to do but practice it in reverse. you already have your hands trained for the motion so all that you have to do is practice a little and it should just come to you. What helped me was, I just didn't think about it, It just kinda happened one day when I was practicing. I practice through out the day and always learn something new while I'm getting everything else locked down. I do a lot of wraps so while I'm practicing these to different transitions it trains my hands where they need to be and when. On some wraps, if your hands aren't exsactly where they need to be, you're strings will get tangled and you will F-ck up. So constant practice is the key to all moves. Good luck Cassandra!!! Josh, if you have anything to add, I'm sure she could use just a little more help.(josh is good at explaining stuff)Eric

Its about talent, not make up or costumes.

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Bassman


member
Location: Austin, TX, USA

Total posts: 95
Posted:Cassandra --answer to (a)-------------Any hand configuration will work for the same-time butterfly as long as your hands are not side by side. You can have your left slightly above your right, or your right slightly above your left, or one hand can be directly above the other one. Any of these hand positions will work regardless of whether you are doing fwd or rev.answer to (b)-------------fwd TTN is "right over left," then "left over right," etc... rev TTN is "right UNDER left," "left UNDER right," etc... So you are basically pushing through with your bottom hand instead of your top hand. You might want to try going into it on your side by starting with both poi at your sides. The left one is spinning fwd and the right one is spinning rev. Then swing the left one over to your right side and bring it underneath your right arm. Try to go into from there. It might be easier for you. Hope that helps!Myst -- I would have to disagree with you when you say that there is nothing left for Cassandra to do now except the rev. There are a few more interesting TTN's that I know of. I'm surprised that no one ever talks about them, because I find them very useful. I don't think I've seen anybody use them besides myself, so perhaps I'm the only one that knows about them? These TTN's that I'm talking about fall under the category of "split-time" TTN's. I find that the split-time TTN's are actually harder than same-time TTN's and the surprising thing is that there are more of them and I think they are more useful. Same-time TTN's can be done only as fwd or rev. There are six ways to do split-time TTN's: 1) left-over-right fwd 2) right-over-left fwd 3) left-over-right-right-over-left fwd 4) #1 reversed 5) #2 reversed 6) #3 reversed.#3 is a combination of #1 and #2, but whereas #2 and #1 are two beat TTN's, #3 is only a three beat TTN. It's kind of funny that way, but that's how it works out. You can use these split-time TTN's to create weave-like moves. I guess you could call them TTN weaves. Anyway, perhaps Malcolm will let me put some info about them in the poi-lessons section, but that will have to happen next week. Tomorrow I leave for the IJA festival, which is a weeklong event. I will probably attend a workshop on Thursday called "Twirling - Poi/Staff to Numb Chuck Manipulation" with Dan Holzman. I'm pumped!!Happy twirling-Nate

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Myst


addict
Location: Oceanside, California, USA

Total posts: 439
Posted:Bassman, a) You took me too literally.b) I just call that a butterfly weave, and learned it forward and reverse as well.c) just cause you haven't seen someone do a move, doesn't mean no one else knows how to do it.Some of us don't post every move out of the ordinary, cause that's what seperates us, a unique style, if I shared my unorthadox moves, they wouldn't be so out of the norm anymore. Everyone with an imagination has a move they feel is theres, that doesn't mean no one else knows it.EricPractice practice practice cassandra

Its about talent, not make up or costumes.

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Posted:Hey Cass
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The rvs TTN feels very different to the fwd version..the loading on your arms is reversed...(duh!
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)I'd suggest you practice going really slowly out from a rvs buttefly.I have to say that I learned this move while I was learning how to alternate Butterfly on either side of my body - TTN I think is easier to do this with than Butterfly, so it cam naturally...If you practice similar moves to the one you want to get, it will make it easier to get that move that seems to be elluding you.But aside from that, I cant help you much. Take it slow, feel the rythm. TTN is all about keeping each poi in it's place...Josh


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Bassman


member
Location: Austin, TX, USA

Total posts: 95
Posted:Myst -- I think you took me too literally. I didn't mean to sound cold. Sorry if I came across that way. I suppose I should have worded that differently. I was exaggerating when I said that I was the only one that knows about split-time TTN's. I definitely don't consider split-time TTN to be my own move because the idea of it just seems rather obvious. To me it seems like a very useful and fundamental move, and I'm just surprised that no one ever mentions it. That's all I was trying to say. I'm glad that you know about it and use it. That's a good thing :-)So anyway you were saying that you call split-time TTN a Butterfly weave? I was under the impression that butterfly weave means same-time TTN.Being that I'll be at the IJA festival all this week starting tomorrow, I may or may not have access to the internet. We'll see. I say this just in case you respond and don't hear from me for a while.Later,-Nathan

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Myst


addict
Location: Oceanside, California, USA

Total posts: 439
Posted:I just call it a butterfly weave cause thats what it is, a TTN weave would be the correct name for it though, or at least in my book. I never thought moving a butterfly same time from right to left or vice versa would be called a butterfly weave seeing as it barely resembles a weave's hand motions. Its all good and no harm done. I appologize for my jumping to conclusions as well.Eric

Its about talent, not make up or costumes.

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Cassandra


Cassandra

Froggie ... Ribbit !!!
Location: Back in Paris... for now !

Total posts: 4224
Posted:Hello again,Thank you so much for your help and advice Josh, Nate, Myst You are definitely great people
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And thank you very much King for starting this thread !For some odd reason I still am stuck with this thing, but I managed to do some cool ones instead last week end... so I am pretty happy. And, yes, Myst I shall indeed PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE, that's what I do most of my free time
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Shine on, beautiful people !Cassandra


"I want brown bread... no, that is diesel oil..."
"So I was raised in Europe, where History comes from ..."
"NON !!! La Plume de mon oncle n est pas Bingibangibungi !!!"

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Bassman


member
Location: Austin, TX, USA

Total posts: 95
Posted:Myst -- Oh I see. You were talking about what I was calling a "TTN weave." I thought you were calling regular split-time TTN a butterfly weave. I was under the impression that the name butterfly weave was just another name for plain old TTN. It makes sense because you're basically doing a butterfly, but you're weaving your hands through it.Must get back to packing...-Nate

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king


member
Location: Columbus, OH, America

Total posts: 15
Posted:Ok All,The TTN is a move that is an illusion in the making. The trick is to exercise the specific muscle groups that enable the Poi set not to collide with you or each other. I know Cassandra that it is hard sometimes to get the reverse or the normal TTN, but practicing does make permanent. Try to be graceful about it as you put one hand over the other for the nomal TTN, or one hand under the other for the reverse TTN, the smoother you can achieve, the better the illusion. I have just Mastered the 5 beat forward and Reverse, and I am able to turn in which ever direction whilst still doing the 5 beat in respective. I love the Poi.Light On people.King

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Lamar


member
Location: Dacula, GA, USA

Total posts: 53
Posted:Bassman & Myst: Butterfly Weave / TTN Weave?I am envisioning something like a butterfly on the left/right, cross over in the middle, butterfly on right/left... but I doubt that is what you two are talking about and I don't see how threading would have anything to do with it. Either of you feel like elaborating on it a bit?

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Myst


addict
Location: Oceanside, California, USA

Total posts: 439
Posted:Lamar, an easy explanation, you know how each hand gets a chance on top of the other when you do a weave. Well do a butterly on your right or left side and just make your hand do what they do when you weave(two rotations on the opposite side, one on it's own side) the thread the neadle part comes from crossing your armes across your body and changing them from on top to on bottom. This move just popped in my head one day and was way easy to pick up. I hope you understand, I tried, I'm just not very good at explanations. EricGood luck, and Cassandra, I LOVE YOU. LOL

Its about talent, not make up or costumes.

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nick


member
Location: the netherlands

Total posts: 0
Posted:Hi Everybody. This is my first post. Pleased to meet you all. King: When you mentioned five beat turns above, were you talking about butterfly beats or weave beats? And if you're talking weave, is there a wrap involved? (I can't imagine 5 beats without a wrap)... and if you're talking about butterfly beats, I'm confused! :-pCheers,Nick(gotta figure out how to make those little faces work...)

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Lamar


member
Location: Dacula, GA, USA

Total posts: 53
Posted:Yep. I can definately see it Eric! Thats badass! Easy to pick up... prolly not... but definately badass.
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Nick:Welcome to the board! King was talking about 5 beat forward and reverse weaves. No wraps involved, although you can use them to achieve extra beats... just the 5 beat weaves in the poi lessons section.As for the smilies... do this, click to reply to this topic even if you don't wanna post anything and in the "Your reply:" box there is an html link labelled "Smilies Legend".
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king


member
Location: Columbus, OH, America

Total posts: 15
Posted:Nick,I am sure ou have heard about the 5 beat weave. I am talking about the weave not the butterfly, as you can do the forward five beat weave, turn and do the reverse 5 beat weave and depending on which direction you turn, you can flow into one or the other. Just like you do with the normal weave except there are more circles involved. There are absolutely no wraps involved, I do not tend to bother my self with wraps because they brake the fluidity of the poi.King

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nick


member
Location: the netherlands

Total posts: 0
Posted:King,I can see what you mean about five beats with turns... but can you do them without turns? Can you stand still and do a forward or reverse 5 beat weave? -Nick

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king


member
Location: Columbus, OH, America

Total posts: 15
Posted:Nick,Absolutely otherwise I would not be able to turn. I learnt it standing still then intergrated it with the turning and configured it with the normal four beats to make a hell of a show. The good thing about the five beat is that you can work your way up to it with the normal weave and then impress your on lookers by switching to the 5 beat weave. It did not take me long to master it as I lock my wrists when I switch to the otherside of my body whilst doing the 5 beat.king

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Myst


addict
Location: Oceanside, California, USA

Total posts: 439
Posted:Nick, you can do a 5 beat weave forward to reverse while facing forward and not turning. When I got tired of turning around every time I just learned what I call a tri-weave. You do a weave in front of you and behind your right side, then still facing forward turn it into a reverse weave and do it in front of you and behind your left side. If you go from forward to reverse without stoping it looks like there are three circles coing around your body. It also works with a 5BW, adding windmills makes it look so much sicker. hell, while your doing 5BW might as well throw in some 4 beat windmills. Lamar, practice and I know you'll have that "BAD ASS" move in no time.Eric

Its about talent, not make up or costumes.

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