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pj


member
Location: Baltimore, Maryland, USA

Total posts: 277
Posted:I discovered what can be done with the split time butterfly this evening. OH MY GOD! Words cannot describe the experience.(but I'll try. ;-)So, I've been looking for some new moves recently, and wasn't really sure where to go. I've been keeping myself so occupied with poi construction and fire performance recently that I just have not had the chance to practice new moves much over the past month.Tonight I had the chance. Protozoa popped for *four* dual-tube, four-foor flourescent blacklight fixtures for our spin jam session this evening. I also had my newly-construced LED poi, which all agree rock mightly even if needing some design work. We had some great tunage. I got to thinking of the time about two months ago when I was at the spin jam in SF and the guy spinning LED poi there. This guy had a style I never saw before and never since. I could not identify a single move he was doing. I have long suspected it was based arround the split time butterly and decided to give that a shot and see where it went.Well, I'll let the cat out of the bag up front. All of the butterfly moves you can do in single time, you can do in split time as well. *ALL* of them! And they freakin' rock, *especially* since the hand motion required for for the split-time jives perfectly to a hip-hop beat, much unlike the weave and standard butterfly.Now, you may not fully appreciate the beauty of this if you have not explored the possabilities of the single time butterfly. At the ECSF, I combined some of Protozoa's moves along with a few ideas from Ben (from AU) to develop some cool butterfly moves and transitions. I will describe some of them here, and remember that *all* of these moves can be done in both regular and split time.Ok, let the fun begin.Start with the regular butterfly. Bring the poi in your right hand behind your back. On the next beat, bring the left poi over to your right side and behind youre back. Bring the left hand back in front, follow with the right, then the left hand behind the back on your left side, followed by the right. Then bring the right and left back to the center to return from whence you started. When crossing from the right side to your left, you can throw in a mexican wave if you'd like. This can be done with both the forward and reverse butterflies. You can do it in regular and split time.A very similar move is to do this at yout side. Do a butterfly on your right side, the poi parallel with your line of vision when facing ahead. Bring the poi in your left hand over to your left side, immediately followed by you right. Return to the right and repeat indeffinately. Again, forward and reverse, regular and split time.Another fun one starts from a reverse butterfly in front. It is probably possible to do this with a forward butterbly, but I have not mastered that one yet. In any case, bring one hand behind your back, and then the other on the next beat. this will have you doing the btb buttterfly. Bring one hand back in front, followed by the other. Again, regular and split time works here.Ok, you've got all those basic moves down. You can transition between them. try turning your body 180 degrees through the transitions. The possabilities are nearly endless!Now, as if that wasn't enough to keep you busy, you can *somehow* bring one of the poi over the back of your head and wind up doing the weave without any awkward forcing of the poi. I have *no* idea how I managed this, but it happened regularly once I started to let my brain get out of the way.I'm pretty sure this is what the guy I saw in SF was doing, because once you start twisting and turning, the poi are going in random directions, yet *always* to the beat of the music and *never* crossing. Well... er... they crossed a *lot* while I was working through all this, but I was able to hone each of the moves and transitions to the point where I know what is possible.It has now been three hours since I left the spin jam (it is now 3:30 am my time) and my mind is still reeling from the new doors that have been opened!-p.

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Superman
BRONZE Member since Mar 2001

Superman

member
Location: Houston, Texas

Total posts: 829
Posted:PJ!!I drop to my knees and bow to you in your moment of ZEN...I got all excited just reading through your new combos..The 1st one ill have to print out and read while i do it.The second is something ive played with. You are getting right up my alley, because the reverse BF is my bread and butter. I love going in and out of giant butterflies into btb BF and into high and low waves. The possibilities ARE damn near endless.Ive been trying (for about a month now) to do a forward BF on my right side, and then take it over my head to my left without rotating my body. If this is possible, i must be missing something, because it hasnt happend yet.Good stuff pj..keep us posted..Super'------------------"Only the warrior that hears the call will know when to leave, Where to go" -unknown"We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of the dreams"- Willy Wonka

Courage is resistance to fear, mastery of fear--not absence of fear.


- Mark Twain

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Posted:If you really have some time on your hands then try every butterfly move, both split and in time, behind your back. They can all be done including turning around with them behind your back. They are a nightmare to get to grips with but once you've got them its worth it - you can even force them round into btb weave moves when you're doing split time butterflys behind your back.have fun,Jo.

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frodus


member
Location: roanoke, VA

Total posts: 92
Posted:Now try over head (horizonta) butterfly, and swing it down, jump over it!thats a hard move

Peace,Travis IM: frodus17

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s-p-l-a-t


member
Location: Brisbane, Qld, Australia

Total posts: 383
Posted:I love that feeling of learning new combos! Those are fun - I don't know any movement with poi that isnt! It gave me a cool idea for a new move too... I don't do much split time on the same plain kinda stuff. I must make a mental note to do more of it though cause I think it looks very pretty, especially with double wicks. Thanks for the ideas =)

The beautiful thing about learning is that no one can take it away from you.- B.B.King

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ShawnF


member
Location: Springfield, MA - USA

Total posts: 162
Posted:This stuff sounds really good pj
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I will have to check it out...My only thing to add is that you can also do crossed arms butterfly stuff. If you have poi going in opposite directions, cross your arms, and then turn 90 degrees, you'll be at butterfly but with arms crossed. I don't know if it'd be aparant to an audience what the difference is, but is kind of fun...


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Mr Sock
GOLD Member since Apr 2001

member
Location: Dover, DE

Total posts: 94
Posted:Wonder what the alternating butterfly sequence in the lessons section looks like in split time? Time to grab the poi
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Human salvation lies in the hands of the creatively maladjusted - Martin Luther King Jr.

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pj


member
Location: Baltimore, Maryland, USA

Total posts: 277
Posted:ShawnF: Yeah, that is actually one of the more basic moves, but it is also one of the *key* elements to dancing with the split time butterfly. If you repeat the move twice, you go from the forward to the reverse butterfly. You can continue to turn in circles this way endlessly, or at least until you pass out from dizziness. ;-)-p.

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Superman
BRONZE Member since Mar 2001

Superman

member
Location: Houston, Texas

Total posts: 829
Posted:ShawnF...do you know how long i have been trying to do that? I have asked a million time on how to go into a butterfly, but with the POI swinging in opposite directions...Turn 90 and cross my arms!! damn, i hate it when the solution was sooo simple..Coo beansSuper'

Courage is resistance to fear, mastery of fear--not absence of fear.


- Mark Twain

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Lil kING


member
Location: Shamong, NJ, USA

Total posts: 7
Posted:pj...that move sounds awesome...ive never thought of anything like that, but while your turning, is everything in one beat cause i cant get it up to that speed....it usually takes me 4 or 5 beats to ready myself for the next turn????the king

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Posted:Hey Lil King,You just got to practice
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You will eventually become accustomed to moving in and out of moves, such that the moves themselves are not a focus anymore - the movement between the moves becomes as fluid as the moves themselves.as Analogy;When attempting to say something profound, you dont stop between words eg;what.Is.The.Sound.Of.One.Hand.Clapping?because the emphasis is taken off the message and placed onto each word in turn, and so any larger meaning you might be trying to say gets lost. Now imagine flowing through your moves as if you were telling a story, not a word at a time, but a whole sentence at a time. And one day if you stick with it, you will be able to tell a whole story (this is what I'd lke to be able to do one day).So;What is the sound of one hand clapping? Perhaps you should ask the tree that fell in the forest, with noone there to hear it
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Josh


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Girl From Mars


Girl From Mars

member
Location: Liverpool, NY, USA

Total posts: 168
Posted:thanx pj for more moves to practice and test out. superman, another way to get into the butterfly is from the forward weave. do a forward weave and on the left side as you do the "under" with your right hand ,wrap it on your left arm (it will swing under your arm and wrap) then turn 90 degrees to yourleft and your doing the butterfly. practice it, it take a little work but looks nice when you do get it.------------------the music feeds my soul that glows and grows with every spin i take.

the music feeds my soul that glows and grows with every spin i take.

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Posted:Hey GFM,I like that wrap idea. I'm not all that good at arm wraps yet, so I'm taking it nice and easy - but that transition will go in the technique diary
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thanks,Josh


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Lil kING


member
Location: Shamong, NJ, USA

Total posts: 7
Posted:Sweet [Josh], im goin to practice right now. you even thru sum philosophy in there...i like it
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that wrap is sweet too GFM. i havent perfected it yet but i was thinkin this...do the wrap into the BF, hold it there 4 a couple beats, then wrap back into a forward weave...a couple more beats...then do the same thing for the other side...thats enough writing 4 now...im off to practice
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the king


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adamrice


adamrice

poo-bah
Location: Austin TX USA

Total posts: 1015
Posted:OK, PJ, this around-the-side butterfly is officially cool. Just did it, although somewhat clumsily. I was a little doubtful that I could do it at all when I read it. The move is a butterfly equivalent to what I call the 270° weave.Now let's see if I can get it down before the Thursday-night get-together.Other butterfly moves: Do a lateral butterfly (that is, start off with a normal butterfly and turn your body 90° but keep your hands in place). It is possible to cross this in front of your body with your hands together, although the timing is a bit tricky. It helps to imagine that you are sliding your hands along the top rim of a large steering wheel as you make the crossover, because you always want your same-side hand to wind up a little below and in from your opposite-side hand.Then learn to do this btb.

Laugh while you can, monkey-boy

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adamrice


adamrice

poo-bah
Location: Austin TX USA

Total posts: 1015
Posted:PJ--I was just playing around with your "reach-around butterfly" (that's how I think of it), and if you time it right, you can bring both arms around on the same beat. Mine is still a little ugly, especially on my left side, but I'm doing it.And while I was at it, I realized it is possibly to do an "over-the-shoulder butterfly." This is the same idea, but, well, instead of going under one arm, you go over it. This feels very different from a behind-the-head butterfly.One thing I've realized in the course of doing these butterfly variations is the subtle importance of the lead hand. For me, I feel more natural with butterflies if my right chain is always leading my left. But after some of these moves, my left chain ends up leading, and this seems to be the cause of many collisions, because it feels unnatural. I've discovered that I either need to get more comfortable with a left-lead, or find more graceful ways of swapping leads.Another point that keeps getting reinforced when working on these butterfly variations is 'economy of motion.' Often with these moves you feel that you will hit yourself for sure--and when learning, you probably will. But if you can get enough momentum to carry you through a beat or two, you can concentrate on just getting your hands in the right place, rather than also trying to put more swing on your chains.

Laugh while you can, monkey-boy

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pj


member
Location: Baltimore, Maryland, USA

Total posts: 277
Posted:Adam: The move where you go from a standard butterfly to behind the back on the side butterfly (in one step) back to front butterfly, to the same thing on the other side, is officially known as the "protie" ;-) I find this move very difficult without the air drag of streamers, and I almost always fubar it when I'm going it with fire.I know what you mean about hand dominance, too. When doing the reverse butterfly, and attempting the same basic move, I can only do it when I forcably alter the position of my hands at the starting position -- that is, basically, 1/2 of a thread the needle.The other night I was trying to see if I could do an "arround the world butterfly" which is standard butterfly, btb via side, btb behind the head, btb on the other side, and back to the standard butterfly. You can of course do this by starting off to the left or the right, in standard time or in split time, and by advancing one poi at a time or both of them at the same time. Unfortunately, I can't do any of them all the way arround yet.
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But, I am getting closer!
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-p.


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emthren


member
Location: Sydney

Total posts: 57
Posted:Can also use the reach-around-butterfly as a turn - just reach backwards and turn your whole body. Ends up as reverse butterfly. Keep going and you've got a turning butterfly going... wheee!One of my fav. combos (all one beat): reach-around-butterfly on one side, ordinary butterfly and then reach-around-buttrfly on the other side which ends up as a turning on that side. Seems really simple (it is!) but once it gets flowing it feels "groovy".
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Then can then break into revearse overhead or alternate butterfly or whatnot...


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