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flash fire
flash fire

Sporadically Prodigal
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Member Since: 25th Jan 2001
Total posts: 2758
Posted:With the continuing influx of new people (Big firey welcome to you all!) I guess it makes a lot of sense for us to have an official "getting to know you" type thread.
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Elders and Newbies alike, enter your details here and feel free to use/modify/disregard the format below:Name: flash fire (Sarah)Sex: female (remember, all possible smart responses to this question have already been done!)Age: 23Location: Sydney AustraliaURL: http://wickeffect.cjb.net/Toys:
all fire staff/double staff/double crossesBeen twirling for: about 4 yearsOccupation: corporate lackieHobbies other than obvious: reading, skiing, travelling, doofing, cruising in my Jeep!Favourite Colour: red Most viewed Movie: Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory or The Doors.Favourite Quote/Saying: an ye harm none do as thou wilt.Best twirling related moment in life so far: I will have to think long and hard to answer.So, post away kiddies! and feel free to occasionally bump this thread to keep it at the top.flash------------------"she dances in a ring of fire and throws off the challenge with a shrug"[This message has been edited by flash fire (edited 29 June 2001).]


HoP Posting Guidelines
Is it the Truth?
Is it Fair to all concerned?
Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?
If you can answer YES to these 4 questions then you may post a reply.

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hrh_tela
member
Location: Cincinnati, OH, USA
Member Since: 20th Sep 2001
Total posts: 2
Posted:I'm new to this so forgive any SNAFUs.Name: SaraSex: FemaleAge: 23Location: Cincinnati, OH (I'd rather be other places though)Toys: Currently only glowsticksBeen twirling for: about 2 weeksOccupation: Dramaturg and Box Office Manager at the Cincinnati Shakespeare FestivalHobbies: reading, writing, touring with bands (Phish, SCI, moe. etc)Favorite color: purpleMost viewed movie: PCU Favorite Quote: "The trick was to surrender to the flow"Best momment twirling: the momment I started.Looking forward to getting to know all of you.------------------The trick was to surrender to the flow. -Phish

The trick was to surrender to the flow. -Phish

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Wazir
member
Location: Savage, MD, USA
Member Since: 8th Sep 2001
Total posts: 5
Posted:Name: Wazir (Blake)sex: maleAge: 24location: live in Savage, MD; work in Baltimore.toys: juggling torches, juggling clubs, just got some fire poi, some practice poi I made out of tennis balls and stringbeen twirling for: about a weekbeen juggling for: about 6 yearsoccupation: stupid office job (shipping)other hobbies: singing, skiing, sleeping, doing things with my girlfriendFavorite movie: The Princess BrideFavorite book: Fool on the Hill

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purplegirl
member
Location: New Zealand
Member Since: 24th Jul 2001
Total posts: 16
Posted:Name: Claire (epona on irc)Sex: take a guessAge: Yay I'm 21! (and it's just like being 20 ):Location: Auckland, New ZealandStar sign: Cancerbeen twirling: playing with poi for a couple years, then sum1 gave me this url about a month ago and i've been twirling hard out since!Toyz: Poi (any variety i can get my hands on), just started doing staff too Hobbies: dancing, reading, riding horses, drawing or painting when the moods apon me, walking Fav colour: purpleMusic: drum and bass, trance, ambient...Fav quote: The early bird may get the worm, but it's the second mouse that gets the cheese.Best Twirling related moment: Watching the most incredible twirlers at a juggling night on monday, they were doing stuff i hadn't even imagined. Then i went home and had a go at a couple things that caught my eye and realised i can do it too!ICQ: 31497949PS. come in the irc channel #poi, there aren't many people, but there will be if you all come in. Would love to talk to you all!

I'm not mad, I just have my own specialised version of sanity

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WuGgaRoO
member
Location: brooklyn
Member Since: 22nd Aug 2001
Total posts: 123
Posted:hey...slipknot does too suck... lol...i used to like em..then i developed a taste in music..lol...sorry slipknot fans..but they r all distortion...and what good group needs 3 drummers??? and i can safely say that KoRn or 311 can easily beat slipknot everyday so :P to the doubter... (forgot the name) lol

Follow Wuggarooism10)Dons't cheateth on thee's significant other9) If thou seest a pig that resembles thee's friend...dont eateth the pig...perhaps it is thee's friend8) If thou talkest shit..thou is a pansy7) Don't buttith into conversations for it will be over thous head6) Dont let stupid comments go unpunished they can only leadest to thous anyurysms5) Dont lie to your friends4) Thou areest what thou arest don't change thou for anyone 3) Masturbation isnt a crime2) When a horse comes up to thou and sayest baaa thou must run!1) Be excellent to eachother

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smilee
member
Location: San Diego,CA,USA
Member Since: 20th Sep 2001
Total posts: 40
Posted:name - smileesex- femaletoys- fire poi, fire stafflocation- San Diego, CA, USAhobbies- dance, reading, watching cartoons, swimming in the ocean, partying, cookingfavorite colors- green and purplefavorit food- fetecini mushroom-shrimp alfredo occupation- studentage-18astrology- capricorn aquarious cuspfavorite book- The Hitchikers Guied to the Galaxy by Douglas Adamsfavorite move- fight clubbeen doing poi for about 8 monthsfavorite animal- rats (domestic)[This message has been edited by smilee (edited 20 September 2001).]

later - Smilee

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krystie
member
Location: Saratoga, CA, USA
Member Since: 28th Aug 2001
Total posts: 22
Posted:Name: KristenSex: femaleAge: 19Location: South SF bay area, California, USAURL: http://www.monkey.sbay.org/~kristen/
<--not up anymore/yetAIM: Krystie82Toys: tennis ball poi, LED poi (homemade), Sauce lightsticks, glowsticks, electric glowsticks, (and soon) fire poiBeen twirling since: April 2001Occupation: Student and coffeegirlHobbies other than obvious: photography, sewing, pottery, fencing, chainmail (the metal stuff), any musical instrument I can get my hands on: bagpipes, violin, handbells, recorder, hammered dulcimer.Favorite Color: green, and autumn colorsMost viewed Movie: The Princess Bride, Charlie Chaplin - Modern TimesFavorite bands: Live, Depeche Mode, Sonata ArcticaBest twirling related moment in life so far: tomorrow night, when I twirl fire for the first time
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dangerboy
dangerboy

original member
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Member Since: 14th Dec 2000
Total posts: 205
Posted:name: morgansuper hero alter-ego: dactylage: 27location: based in canada, but homeless and wandering now. will be in aus soon for a year. yah!sign: water goattoys: staff, double staff, cross, chains, flags, eating, breathing, meteor, glow. combinationsbeen weaving for: 1.5 yearsfave colours: black and army greenfave movies: martix, dark crystalfave music: trance, alternative, ambient, classicalhobbies: sports, scuba, design, creating, exploringwork: ex-biologist, graphic designerfave quote: the wind that breaks the oak merely bends the willowfave quote: "do you have any idea how sexy you look when you do that?"best moment spinning: high on mushrooms, i suddenly "got" spinning. it was no longer moves, it was self-expression. i could do things with any toy i'd never even concieved of. ------------------Earth my body, water my blood, air my breath, fire my spirit

Earth my body, water my blood, air my breath, fire my spirit

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Vanish
member
Location: Chicago, IL
Member Since: 18th Sep 2001
Total posts: 4
Posted:Name: Vanish (Ryan)Sex: maleAge: 19Location: ChicagoURL: http://www.iit.edu/~drisrobToys:
glowstringsBeen twirling for: 1 monthOccupation: software engineerHobbies other than obvious: computers, football, R/c stuffFavourite Colour: dark dark purple Most viewed Movie: The MatrixFavourite Quote/Saying: Slap her in the face and say bitch do ya like meBest twirling related moment in life so far: learning reverse 3, fountain and 5 beat in one day.------------------


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Jaeden
member
Location: Edmonton
Member Since: 2nd Sep 2001
Total posts: 220
Posted:Name: ArlinSex: MaleAge: 20Location: The Great White North Baybee!Toys: Just glo-sticks so farExperiance: 3 weeks since I found this site (the time before that was mostly wasted)Other pastimes: Wakeboarding, Snowboarding, HockeyOccupation: Colledge student and part time gas jockeyFav Movies: The Matrix, Legend, The Usual SuspectsFav Music: Trance, Happycore, Rock, some ClasicalBest Twirling Moment so far: When I finaly cracked the btb weave
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Other things of intrest: Well, not much realy...------------------'There is a fist pressing against anyone who thinks something compelling'


The world is not out to get you but if you fight it you will be eaten alive

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Tlight
member
Location: London
Member Since: 7th Sep 2001
Total posts: 189
Posted:Name: Tlight (tom)Sex: never (male)age:14Toys:StaffBeen twirling for: a month and a half with firestaff and a long time with bamboo.Quote: Mornings start to earlyBest staff moment: When i bought my first firestaff and being taught the firat few basic moves then doing it on the way home and being complemented by lotsof people
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I hope you realize how pissed I am.

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Azrael
member
Location: Portland, Oregon, US
Member Since: 22nd Sep 2001
Total posts: 0
Posted:Name: AzraelSex: MaleAge: 31Location: Portland, Oregon, USToys: PoiBeen twirling for: 6 weeks.Occupation: Software EngineerHobbies: Burning Man, Composing techno on the PC, Esperanto Favourite Colour: Black Most viewed Movie: MatrixMost Recent Favourite Quote/Saying:"If Crime Fighters fight crime, and Fire Fighters fight fire... what are Freedom fighters fighting?"-George Carlin

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Durbs
Durbs

Classically British
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England
Member Since: 23rd Sep 2001
Total posts: 5688
Posted:Name: Durbs (Paul)Sex: MAge: 20Location: Guildford - Surrey, UKURL: http://come.to/green-roomToys:
Poi, diabolo, juggling (balls, rings, clubs etc)Occupation: Music StudentHobbies other than obvious: Drumming, music, playing guitar, mountain biking, tennis,drinking (Yes - Iknow it's not clever)Favourite Colour: Purpley green Most viewed Movie: Monthy Python's Flying Circus, Matrix or AliensFavourite Quote/Saying: Everything is everything, but somethings aren'y everything and these things are what i call....nothing[This message has been edited by Durbs (edited 25 January 2002).]


Burner of Toast
Spinner of poi
Slacker of enormous magnitude

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FirePoi-boy
member
Location: Bantry, Ireland
Member Since: 22nd Sep 2001
Total posts: 71
Posted:Name: Sam aka FirePoi-boyAge: 17Livng: IrelandOccupation: wasting time in schoolToys: fire poi, devil sticks, diablotwirling:1 month but have no one to teach me new movesdistinguishing features: bruises on face back and legs. (i need to make some practise poi)Best fire moment: lighting up for my first ever

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Diesel_RaVer
member
Location: New York City, NY USA
Member Since: 13th Sep 2001
Total posts: 15
Posted:Name: JonathanSex: male, Yes Please!Age:21Location:Ozone Park, Queens, New York CityAstrology: TaurusToys: Glow Sticks, Strobe Lights, LED LightsBeen twirling/Sticking for: 8 MonthsFav colors: Electric blue, Silver, Bright RedFav movie: Exit WoundsFav music: rock, techno/trance, Electronica, Drum And Bass, Jungle, Hard Trance, Hard Techno, Dance, Club MuzikHobbies
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ancing, chillin, Driving around in my car, clubbing, Drinking, Occupation: Student by Day, Clubber by nite, Pharmacy Intern by weekend... :/fav quote: Sleep the Day, Live the night.Best twirling moment(so far): Dueling with someone with a croud of hundreds standing by watchingE-mail: DieselraverxtC@hotmail.comICQ: NoneAIM: DieselRaver
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ScRuBB
member
Location: Seattle, WA, USA
Member Since: 9th Jun 2001
Total posts: 9
Posted:Name: BryanGender: MaleAge: 19Home: Seattle or Puyallup, WA, USAToys: Fire/ribbon/glowstick poi, computer, skis, snowboard.Attempted toys: Juggling, staff, diabolo, devil sticks, ketch-it (don't ask), liquid, yo-yo, skateboarding, rollerblading.Hobbies: Origami, disentanglement puzzles, manipulation puzzles, being unpredictable.Been Twirling Since: Mother's Day, 2001 (Yes I'm a neophyte, so shoot me.
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)What got me started: I saw a video from a yo-yo competition of James Lac twirling glowsticks and said "I wanna do that!"Fav Movie: The MatrixFav TV show: Who's Line Is It Anyway? and Spongebob SquarepantsMusic: Rock, Alternative, Modern Classical, New Age, Jazz, Techno on occasion, Experimental.------------------Ouch, dammit! Frickin poi, stop hitting me!


Ouch, dammit! Frickin poi, stop hitting me!

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flash fire
flash fire

Sporadically Prodigal
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Member Since: 25th Jan 2001
Total posts: 2758
Posted:bumping for the next wave of newcomers!
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HoP Posting Guidelines
Is it the Truth?
Is it Fair to all concerned?
Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?
If you can answer YES to these 4 questions then you may post a reply.

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shadow
member

Member Since: 2nd Oct 2001
Total posts: 1
Posted:name: shadowage: 22occupation: currently travelling, aspiring tribal style belly dancerlocation: at the moment thailand...probably will eventually settle in the pacific northwest (us)toys: poi, juggling, contact juggling, would love to learn fire stickshow long: juggling sporadically for a while, just started poiother hobbies: belly dance, drumming, travel, vegan cooking, paganism, outdoor adventuresfavorite movie: shanghai triadfavorite book: burning chromefavorite quotes:"what doesn't kill you makes you strong" -nietzscheand "if I can't dance it's not my revolution" -emma goldmanbest twirling moment: the first time I saw fire poi, at pennsic...the most beautiful thing I've seen since the first time I saw tribal belly dance. uh oh
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Maelstrom
Maelstrom

member
Location: Akron, Ohio
Member Since: 12th Sep 2001
Total posts: 135
Posted:Name: Kurt HeubeckSex: MaleAge: 29 (but I have a Peter Pan complex that you would not believe)Location: Akron, OhioToys: Fire Poi, Sparking Poi, Flaming Dioblo, Juggling Torches, Flaming juggling Balls, Fire Devil Sticks, Unicycle.Occupation: Industrial Designer, Enviromental Design. (Speicalizing in 100% custom work. My Companies name is Evolutionary Design "Your Missing Link in Design." We are a part of the custom culture)Hobbies: None, I love what I do, I don't know when to stop. Twirling is ever making it's way into my design work, Just ask about custom equipment!
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Fav. Color: Flip Flop colorsMy best twirling moment was last week end. I meet Knagi for the first time, and we span through the night (went through 5 gallon of Kero, just spinning) then traded off tricks for the rest of the day. By the time night hit again I went about three more times and then passed out on the beach. It was beyond cool!------------------Nothing good ever comes from hanging out with "normal" people.


Nothing good ever comes from hanging out with normal people.

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MiSsFrOg
member
Location: Oceanside, CA USA
Member Since: 30th Aug 2001
Total posts: 187
Posted:Ok this is the 4th time I've tried to post on this topic but I'm at work and when i get down to the end of writing,someone has to use my comp erassing all that i have said so i will make this fast.Name: Erica Aka Missfrog
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sex:100% Princess
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(gemini)Been twirling since December of 2000
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Hobbies: Goin to the beach,spinning my sticks,driving around,sleepin.
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Favorites:Anything green,anything that glows,froggies,butterflies,fairies,chocolate,chineese food and my pillow.favorite saying:"gimme a lightshow"
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best twirling experience:When i spun fire for the firs time and a few months ago when i got the biggest audience I've ever gotten spinning glowsticks. [image]http://www.homeofpoi.com/ubb/images/icons/grin.gif">____________[/image][This message has been edited by MiSsFrOg19 (edited 12 October 2001).]


Its not easy being green....

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TheBovrilMonkey
TheBovrilMonkey

Liquid Cow
Location: High Wycombe, England
Member Since: 3rd Sep 2001
Total posts: 2629
Posted:Name: RorySex: MaleAge: 22Location: High Wycombe, Englandemail: thebovrilmonkey@yahoo.co.ukToys: poi, diabolo, making myself a staff at the momentBeen twirling since: September 2001Occupation: Computer ProgrammerHobbies other than obvious: Kayaking, painting, talking nonsense.Favourite Car: My 1969 Trafalgar Blue Morris Minor.Favourite Colour: PurpleMost viewed Movies: Batman, Delicatessen, Dr No, anything by Kevin Smith or the Coen Brothers or with Jackie Chan (before the films made in Hollywood, they're mainly pants)Favourite Quote/Saying: Never rub another man's rhubarb.Favourite bands: Super Furry Animals, Supergrass, Bjork, Leftfield, MuseFavourite food: MilkybarsFavourite Books: Das Boot, Mr Nice (Howard Marks' Autobiography), Fear and Loathing in Las VegasBest twirling related moment in life so far: camping for a weekend with some friends, I managed to get 4 more tricks sorted and inspire someone else to start spinning.[This message has been edited by TheBovrilMonkey (edited 03 October 2001).][This message has been edited by TheBovrilMonkey (edited 08 December 2001).]

But there's no sense crying over every mistake. You just keep on trying till you run out of cake.

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Drakien
member
Location: Coventry / High Wycombe, Engla...
Member Since: 19th Sep 2001
Total posts: 49
Posted:Name: Drakien, Bond, Blond, James, 007, etcSex: MaleSecs: 27.3Location: Physics IT room, University of Warwick, Coventry, EnglandURL: http://www.warwick.ac.uk/~phukwL33t
skillz: poi (2months), fire breathing (5wks)Occupation: money-grabbing Maths/Phys studentI like: rock climbing, manga, Ultimate frisbee and the pretty, pretty flames.Don't call me: babyLook: I'll be 20 in 5months. Is this good or bad?And there ya go!Bond(JS)------------------'Only ever use the pink kind...'


Posh ravers wear ties.

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audax
audax

freelance bum
Location: Upstairs
Member Since: 3rd Sep 2001
Total posts: 286
Posted:
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Name:MattAge:26Astromalogical Sign: AsparagusLocation: Perth West Aus.Toys:Fire, glowstick, tennis ball, sock shoe or fluffy toy poiTwirling since: June Worst injury: smashed nadsLearned From: Jemma from Albany, Ryo from Kyoto, Jules from Vancouver, Chris from London, others...Fire massive: As above + Kat Abby Chris PK Fitzy Katie Matt Johann Trish(1,2+3!) Lulu Paul Kate Hannah Kira + more...Best Spin:In the North West of Australia, a small town called Broome holds an annual festival called Shinju Matsuri, or festival of the pearl, to celebrate the pearling industry established by the Japanese. As part of the festivities they held a concert and markets at the town's beach. I went there for a peek and found a friend with poi busking. A few of us joined in taking turns to entertain. Later, we went to the waterfront and saw that there was 1000 candles being set up on the ground in the shape of a huge peace dove. We decided we really should go for a spin in the middle of it. A few others saw us at it and joined in, 5 fire twirlers in the light of the rising moon, music and people everywhere. Then the fireworks started up. Then a cameraman came and filmed us.
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------------------Your parents were wrongFire is good Play with fire


UYI wink OLDSKOOL

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catboy
member
Location: leicester, england
Member Since: 24th Sep 2001
Total posts: 167
Posted:name: catboy (ben)sex: maleage: 23location: leicester uktoys: single fire staff / poibeen twirling for: 12months (poi) / 2months (staff)occupation: freelance designhobbies: windsurfing, wakeboarding, racing cars (mini's), fixing them again after bashing them up, decorating (at the mo anyway
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favourite color: bluemost viewed movie: bullittmost used quote / saying: arrrgghh, SSSSH$#*%@TTTTTfavourite quote: were not here for a long time, were here for a good timetwirling partner: max the manx cat; likes chasing my poi... and dogs... but not when theyre on fire (the poi, not the dogs)
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you can take the cat out of the jungle, but you cant take the jungle out of the cat

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elliw
member
Location: lincolnshire
Member Since: 1st Oct 2001
Total posts: 25
Posted:name:elliesex:femaleage:17location:lincolnshire,englandoccupation: art studenttoys
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oi and getting staff in a few dayshow i found the fire:i met a great aussie girl about 2 months ago at sidmouth folk festival she had a fire stick and i loved it as soon as i picked it up. i got home,made myself some poi,and am now awaiting my staff.fav movies:austin powers(yeah baby,yeah), lock stock and all the cheesy horrors in the world.music: i have a huge love for music and especially love ska/punk and old stuff like the doors.mates: ive got 2 great best friends and lots of others, unfortunately none spin or twirl-yet!other hobbies:im a real festival girl and love reading festival (actually i love em all).i like to keep fit sew and hang out with friends, oh yeah and goin to gigs and clubs. ------------------little miss firefly, burning bright,lights your way all through the night.


little miss firefly, burning bright,lights your way all through the night.

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Posted:Ok... here's the scoop on me.. Name: PoiGod (Aaron)((Bane is my stage name))Age: 19Location: Grove City, Ohio USAExperience: Spinning for 7 years (fire for 1)Job: Promoter and performerFun Stuff: I compose and perform musicURL: not up yet sorryOrginization: Working on creating one for the midwest. If you're interested e-mail mne at Ferret@columbus.rr.comE-Mail: Ferret@columbus.rr.com There you have it ecerything you needed to know and more...

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Posted:Name: JeremySex: maleAge: 18Location: Chicago, Illinois! USAToys: chains with glowsticks/photons/fireBeen twirling for: 1 yearOccupation: I work at FUNCOLANDHobbies other than obvious: Dancing, snowboarding, running, hiking, canoeingFavourite Colour: Yello/Blue Most viewed Movie: Requiem For a DreamFavourite Quote/Saying: I'm not NOT licking toads.Best twirling related moment in life so far: Gee...I dunno

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Naganootch
AKA CLERIC
Location: Staten Island , NY. USA
Member Since: 30th Aug 2001
Total posts: 172
Posted:Name: Naganootch (PAUL)Sex: MaleAge: 18Location: New YorkURL: Http://www.angelfire.com/rant/ventstationToys:
Shoelaces and glowsticks/RavN lightsBeen twirling for: about 7 monthsOccupation: Cashier at local ShopriteHobbies other than obvious: Playing video games, being with my special lady,and readingFavourite Colour: red Most viewed Movie: FIGHT CLUBFavourite Quote/Saying: It's only after you've lost everything your free to do anything.Sign: AriesHeight: 5' 10"Eyes: Blue(aww yeah dats right blue baby)Pets: my puppy dog Eve.


We are defined by the choices we make

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Auspoiboy
member
Location: Melbourne Australia
Member Since: 8th Oct 2001
Total posts: 219
Posted:Name, rank and serial number: Dave, psychology student 1st class (part time waiter), spoondoctor@start.com.au feel free to writeAge: is a state of mine but if you want to be picky i guess its 18 going on about 7.Tools of the trade: I have been twirling a set of poi (a piece of cord from the waist of a set of track pants, tennis balls with socks over the tennis balls for tails), for about a month AND I LOVE IT
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apart from that i have dabbed with one biggish stick ( i don't know the lingo).Favourtie passtime: sleeping or poi....no sleeping.Favourtie movie: The Castle (a must see if you want to know anything about aus life and laugh your arse off at the same time)favourite everything else: massage, reading, dancing (not well but hey), drinking, laughing, forgetting, watching people not just exist but live and did i mention sleeping.Message for everyone to take head:When saying goodbye, don't say look after yourself, say look after others!![This message has been edited by Auspoiboy (edited 11 October 2001).]


Good on usGood on us all

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Rolph
member
Location: Perth, Australia
Member Since: 10th Oct 2001
Total posts: 22
Posted:Name: Andrew CockerSex: maleAge: 20Location: Perth WAToys: Homemade poi and staff, juggling balls and clubs.Been twirling for: 3 yearsOccupation: Student/pizza dude.Hobbies other than obvious: hockey, computers, hiking, canoeing, saxFavourite Colour: Blue Most viewed Movie: Princess Bride, Batman, Matrix, AliensFavourite Quote/Saying: When you feel lost and confused, lie on your back with your legs in the air. Things almost always look better from a new perspectiveBest twirling related moment in life so far: Performing at the Rottnest Island circus festival

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stiltfire
member
Location: Chicago, IL USA
Member Since: 11th Oct 2001
Total posts: 19
Posted:Name: Tom HoweAge: 23Toys: poi, meteors, single staff, (working on: fire stilts)Hobbies: stilt dancing, acting, playing soul and jazz, loveoccupation: day-computer programmer, night-actor/performerspinning: since my theatre company introduced me to it, about 5 months agourl: well the one for the theatre company I work with is www.redmoon.orginspiration: The crazy 60 year old man I once met in the park who taught me how to spin staff. Never saw him again, not sure if he even really existed. . .

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