Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"
quote:Sure. ^^ Here's an example:
Originally posted by onewheeldave:
quote:I'm not entirely sure what you mean here.
Originally posted by regyt:
[QUOTE]Whoa there. Our spelling, while complex, has a purpose! It's not just about sounds. Different spellings reflect different etymologies and morphemes. Our spelling system is rich with information! Simplified spelling would lose all of that. How terrible that would be.
Could you give some specific examples of the kind of info that would be lost?
E pluribus unum, baby.
quote:I agree on that point entirly. But it would sure be nice to walk into a university comp science class and not have to sit through: "And who can tell me what a CPU is." (which should be completly phucking obvious) or sitting through 3 50 min lectures on primitive data types. or 4 lectures on objects and events. or (I'm paraphrasing) "yes we think your so stupid that we're only going to teach you how to use a language meant for programming coffe machines (I don't have a high opinion of Java) And that we don't even expect you to understand what your doing.
Originally posted by Matthew B-M:
It is worth pointing out at this point that a Computer Science degree (emphasis mine) is based on more than just "can you write C++ or Java"
quote:just out of curriosity which do you like. I like VB because of it's rapid app dev nature. But I like C++ alot more. It's more versitial and scalable. As well it is far more powerful allowing you to get the closest to the system with out going into architecture based assembly. C++ is also a gnu/opensource compiler. so it is free to everyone. and availible for almost every system still in use. (Win, dos, UNIX, Linux, BSD, BEos, solus, minix, mac, vax/vms, OS/2, Palm, etc...)
Originally posted by Matthew B-M:
"can you write C++ or Java" neither of which are languages I particularly like
quote:This is exactly the problem that this program I have described is trying to get rid of. Today high school students are treated like helpless little babies. I think this is the worst effect of public ed. Yes grade 8's are children and should be treated as such. But grade 11's and 12's are not. In Canada most high school students reach the age of magority (18) before they grad. That means they can vote. Why are we treating voting members of society like children. It's time to start treating all grade 11's and 12's like University students and adults (not just those in special programs). While they still have time and the freedom to fail, make mistakes, and just generally screw up. Instead of introducing this concept of being an adult in University when screwing up can cost you very dearly in a system thats not forgiving. Where the prof's don't care why that project wasn't done. And if you have mono and can't come to class: "I'll be seeing you next sem"
Originally posted by Matthew B-M:
not to mention that I don't think schoolkids necessarily have the maturity to write decent maintainable code.
In the 60's people took acid to make the world weird, now the world is weird and they take prozac to make it normal again.
-v-
Wiederstand ist Zwecklos!
Let's relight this forum
Luv 'n' Lemons
purity :: clarity :: balance
-v-
Wiederstand ist Zwecklos!
quote:Actually, I think it was a good way to illustrate whats wrong with the educational system in the US. Since I'm an American, born and bred, I see nothing wrong with looking at my own country with a critical eye.
Originally posted by vanize:
Actually, most americans are taught one or two other languages - we just never get the chance to use them in the states, so they fade rapidly. Language is a case of use it or lose it.
But really Raph, there is no need to bring negative international stereotypes into this thread, is there? What did you say about respect?
-v-
Wiederstand ist Zwecklos!
quote:Regyt.
Originally posted by regyt:
Take a look at "sign". Sounds the same as "sine", but very different meanings. Now look at "signet"...... The meanings are related, and it is indicated only in the spelling, not in the sound of the words. This is exactly what I fear would be lost....
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
quote:Sounds interesting, I've not read it but did some net searches.
Originally posted by woodnymph:
has any one here read "Riddley Walker" by Russell Hoban?It's written as words sound,set in a post apocalyptic england.Totally irrelevant(apart from the language debate)i know....
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
Luv 'n' Lemons
purity :: clarity :: balance
quote:I understand the point you are making. I too agree that we are seeing this from the perspective of the elite in our society.
You and me, and many others who post here, are the lucky ones. Our grasp of written English is so good than we have the luxury of being able to examine subtle aspects of the words we use and their historical origins.
The millions of less fortunate, who can't read a book, or a newspaper, or get a decent job, or, in many cases, have any self respect; do not have that luxury.
As you seem to have an interest in history, I'm sure you are aware that written language skills have historically been a prime criteria to seperate the 'peasant' from the elite; i.e. as a tool of exclusion.
It was a day for screaming at inanimate objects.
What this calls for is a special mix of psychology and extreme violence...
quote:You do make an excellent point. (And I truly appreciate this civil debate.) It is a terrible thing to exclude someone from literacy. I would rather have my left arm cut off than lose the ability to read and write, so you see how illiteracy upsets me. And yes, poetry and beauty and history must be balanced against the strong interest in making writing accessible to the masses. I wholeheartedly agree with that idea. However, I feel that (a) to lose so much through simplified spelling would lessen the value of literacy to those who gained it, and (b) there are better ways of making literacy more available.
Originally posted by onewheeldave:
Most importantly, look at what is in the balance here- on one side is the subtleties of historical aspects of the language, on the other are the millions of lives damaged by those who are, to some extent, excluded from normal life by the fact that written English is far more difficult to learn than it needs to be.
E pluribus unum, baby.
quote:No one pronounces 'you' and 'your' the way they're spelt though.
Originally posted by frostypaw:
quote:but they might be spelt the way they sound to the writer though....
and it seems a bit selective over the words it's changed i.e. you, your,make aren't spelt the way they sound.
...i say "film" an irish person says "filum" - which is right? Both are...
i say "my", a stereotypical southwest england accent would be "moie"...
all of that regionality would be lost too.
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
quote:But surely, given that the whole point of simplified spelling is that words are spelt the way they're pronounced, confusion is almost impossible?
Originally posted by frostypaw:
...people wrote down what they said and how they said it
...and if ya ask any historian for that period it's a nightmare trying to work through the literature and people's writing as it's all different
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
It was a day for screaming at inanimate objects.
What this calls for is a special mix of psychology and extreme violence...
Using the keywords [education importance] we found the following existing topics.