Forums > Social Chat > fire campaigne...joan vs. parents

Posted: 14th Sep 2003
I advise you sit them down and make them watch you spin. Talk them through all your saftey procedures and explain why it's not as dangerous as it looks, plus tell them you are aware of the consequences, ("All I'm doing is playing with fire. I'm not an idiot. Sheesh.")

But, uh, that's just what I would do. *shrug*

"But I don't want to go among mad people," Alice remarked.
"Oh, you can't help that," said the Cat: "we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad."
"How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice.
"You must be," said the Cat, "or you wouldn't have come here."

Posted: 14th Sep 2003
Firespinning is dangereous. Most spinners I met have scars somewhere on their body and have been burned countless times. I understand the fact that I am putting my body at risk every time that I light up. As an adult, I believe that the fun outweighs the risk, so I continue to do it. But it makes me very uncomfortable when I see children spinning.

I know I'm in the minority and I know that all the other posts will be of the 'go for it!' variety, which is maybe why I'm posting.

I generally fault parents quite a bit. I think there are some pretty awful parents in this world which is sad. But for a parent to say "I won't allow my kid to twirl flaming balls of kevlar and metal above her head" sounds pretty reasonable.

Spin poi, spin glowsticks, spin comets, and when you're old enough to be calling the shots, you can feel free to put your body at some risk. And by then, you'll be kickin' all of our butts.

Plus, from a kids v. parents strategy, I think you're better off playing the "I promise I won't light up as long as you guys promise that you won't keep me from practicing UNfirey practices."

Besides, fire is overrated.

Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

Posted: 14th Sep 2003
I am in no way trying to suggest something more dangerous, so please do no view me as a good role model of any kind. That said... I started eating fire a couple months ago and showed my parents some pictures. They worried about me spinning fire before, but now they wish that I would just keep with the fire spinning and stop putting known cancer-causing fuel into my mouth. Either way, I have to agree with Nove in that they should see it before making a decision one way or another. Also, and this is my responsible side, make sure you're practicing mucho without fire, and never try uncomfortable tricks while burning... especially in front of your parents. (Sort of a do as I say/not as I do sort of thing, but then again, I'm an idiot) Anyway, have fun, and good luck!

Posted: 14th Sep 2003
Let's look at this from a distance first.

Your parents want to look after you. They care about you. They are genuinely concerned for your welfare.

This is a GOOD thing. This is the type of relationship some children have never experienced. See it for what is, first. It’s an expression of love, and that is something to be treasured.

Now, you start out with the BUT BUT BUT. But if you truly want to understand the situation, and be able to rectify it, you first have to understand WHY your parents are so worried.

They have spent years watching you make all sorts of silly decisions. As children, we fall over, walk into walls, burn ourselves on the toasters, etc etc etc. We do all sorts of stupid things because we are children.

They have heard you say you won’t get hurt climbing the tree just before you fall out and start crying They’ve heard you yell you aren’t tired, while crying, rubbing your eyes, and barely keeping awake.

They know the things you have done WITHOUT fire, and it worries them.

Ok...why should your parents let you play with fire. Because you have proved to them that you will act responsibly, maturely and take all the precautions possible.

IT IS NOT YOUR PARENTS JOB TO UNDERSTAND FIRE ARTS.

It is YOUR job to convince them to trust you.

quote:

---

my parents dont like what i am doing with the fire

---

Of course they don’t! It’s dangerous! It’s fire, and most parents have nightmares about their children getting burned, scarred and killed with fire.

The first step is to realise its not about your parents “not understanding”, it’s about you not understanding the relationship you have with your parents.

Once you gain that understanding, then you can start the job of proving to them that you are a responsible, mature and sensible young adult.

And if you do something completely unrelated, like crash the car, or lie about a party or something, then YOU have jeopardised the chance of them seeing you as a responsible person.

This is a hard thing to do, and it will take constant vigilance and may be the hardest single thing you have ever had to do in your life.

Give it a go, and remember, it is up to you to change their minds through your actions and only your actions. Words won’t cut it.

HoP Posting Guidelines
* Is it the Truth?
* Is it Fair to all concerned?
* Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
* Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?

Posted: 14th Sep 2003
I agree with Charles and NYC here. It is dangerous and your parents are trying to watch out for you, and honestly I think that makes them good parents.

That being said, you can try to discuss it rationally with your parents. They get the final say, but you can make sure that it is an educated decision on their part.

Acknowledge the danger first! That will make you seem far more honest in their eyes. Then talk about all the precautions you take. Ask them for ideas on how to be even more careful. That sort of thing. Really listen to their concerns and see if you can work out sensible ways to reassure them. If, after all that, it still is a no go - well, 18 will come sooner than you think.

Good luck!

E pluribus unum, baby.

Posted: 14th Sep 2003
I also agree with Charles and NYC on this. And really, it's not going to kill you to wait a while to use fire. Just use glow-toys in the meantime and when you're living under your own roof, you can make the rules and start using fire again. No big deal.

Posted: 14th Sep 2003
It's no big deal to wait to use fire, so you shouldn't sweat it. Pardon the pun. It's just as much fun and as much of a rush to use glow sticks instead. Don't rush into it, because thats the worst thing you can do.

Take some time and show your parents how careful you'd be. Show them your safety equipment and explain how you'd use it all.

Just let them take some time to get used to it. You just have to relax about it and not be to hasty. I took the time to show my parents I was good enough that I wouldn't die. I waited until each one of them was okay with the idea enough to watch, and now they both know how careful I am and they even enjoy watching.

So just relax, and don't rush it.

there'll be no angels

Posted: 14th Sep 2003
I should have mentioned in my earlier post that your parents are right to be worried... I say this because my parents care just as much about me... I called them overprotective all through childhood, but I've thanked them for it. They let me make plenty of mistakes, but stepped in before I could make any dangerous ones, and for this I am greatful... and as far as waiting for fire is concerned... If you spin glowsticks, then you have my respect. I, personally, would rather be whacked with a flaming wick than with a hard plastic glowstick. So, rock on!

Posted: 15th Sep 2003
Hrmmm... I swore I was gonna get flamed on this one.

I get really uncomfortable when HoPers start agreeing with me.

Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

Posted: 14th Sep 2003
hehe. Sounds like what I'm dealing with now on another msg board. I get flamed a lot for things I say because people take the words out of context and read too much into it. I say one thing and people think I said 10 things. *shrug*

Posted: 14th Sep 2003
What do you mean by *shrug*? It's because I'm short right?

Jerk.

Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

Posted: 15th Sep 2003
So, are you saying we're probably all going to take whatever you say out of context, or just that you're better than me. You know it's not easy being a cesarean section birth ya know! And why did you have to bring my mom into this anyway? hehehe
*You guys made me roll in my chair I was laughing so hard... Had to join in on the fun.

Posted: 15th Sep 2003
Start doing something even more dangerous and your folks will leave you alone on this one. My olds have stopped asking about my paragliding days out: "Pretty good day, got some decent lift, then Dave gust stalled, fell 60 feet to the ground and is in hospital, but they're pretty sure he'll be walking again within a year..."

Show your parents that the chains bounce off and you can't go up in a massive fireball unless you really try.

There is a slight possibility that I am not actually right all of the time.

Posted: 15th Sep 2003
without actually trying to impail myself on the replys to this post, don't you think that takling about "children" spinning as if they were complete idiots was a lot worse then ketting them get on with it? point 1: i'm not saying give them all a set of chains and point them in the direction of the nearest bottle of parafin, but lets face it.... if your doing this, any kind of spinning, you understand the risks your taking on. you've got to be pretty stupid not to. saying "i don't want you to play with fire" to a "child" ( i'm quite unsure what some of the more "mature" HoPers think this title relates to. 15? 17? 43?) is like telling them the 1 thing they want to hear.
point 2: surely its better to be encouraged about the fact that your "child" is taking such an interest in their hobby that they want to take it to the next level? yes, its dangeras, but so is walking down the street these days

like i said at the begining, its not like i'm condesending anyone here for thoughts on "children" spinning fire, i just think that if you look at it logicly, and from THEIR persective... which a lot seem to forget i think... if their mature enough to respect the fire their all too aware of spinning round their bodies at great velocities, let them get on with it.

Posted: 15th Sep 2003
NYC, i didnt say im a child- in fact im not any more (sometimes regret, sometimes feel like one ) ,i also USE fire poi and im NOT a beginner. the problem is i live with my parents and i have to listen them worrying about me... and i dont know what to say to make them feel comfortable.

I would like them to accept me spinning/stilting/juggling etc... but these are so uncommon activities that they just use some kind of "social pattern" or stereotype when thinking bout it.

oh, and they saw me spinning with friends last night- from distance, but still- and they agreed it looks impressive but they still "didnt change their attitude to it"...

hmm, i'll keep trying

(Eera, already tried out this method- gave some results, but my conscience....)

[ 16. September 2003, 05:05: Message edited by: Joan of Arc ]

Down from my ceiling
Drips great noise
It drips on my head through a hole in the roof...

Posted: 15th Sep 2003
Joan of Arc,

Is it possible that your parents concerns are not based soley on rational reasons but on their subconscious awareness that their daughter has named herself after a woman who ended her life by being burnt to death?

"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

Posted: 15th Sep 2003
LOL @ dave

Joan, sounds like the folks are stuck. but if your old enough to make you own desigions, and you already been playing, well, you wouldent be the first offspring to do it anyway. My mum worries all the time, but she also knows that wont really change my desigions and has sort of gotten used to my recklessness (not that i am that reckless, i just like dangerous things) and I in turn only tell her about near misses well after the event.

We know fire spinning isnt as dangerous as it looks, yeah you can get burnt, but they heal and chicks dig em, but they dont know that, they prolly recon youll go up as soon as you get something wrong. maybe demonstrate a lot of wraps to them, on fire, maybe haul up the "worst injuries" thread, they arnt that bad, the wost thing i heard of happening is someone getting covered in coleman fuel from ballchain and going woosh! and even they came out still smoking but walkin.

are you 18+? Then its just part of your perants letting go of thier little baby, or you, as you might see it.

T

p.s. hadda write this just to contradict NYC

This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti

Posted: 15th Sep 2003
Sorry for assuming, Joan!

In that case, I empathize more. My mother hates that I spin, but I'm too old for her to do more than complain. (On the other hand, if my youngest brother tried it, he'd be grounded for life, and deservedly so.) I've gone through a complete explanation of how I try to be safe as possible with her, and that calmed her somewhat, so long as she doesn't have to watch.

I got my first and only burn the one time I let my mother watch me spin from close up. She started shrieking and that completely threw my concentration, and next thing I know both poi are wrapped around the back of my knee and hurting. I spun them out quickly, chewed her out, and ran for the burn creme. Didn't even really leave a scar, thankfully. (Neosporin every day until the mark is gone takes care of that real nicely.)

E pluribus unum, baby.

Posted: 15th Sep 2003
Er... oops I guess. I never really understood the whole 'living at home as an adult' thing so I'm sorry I prejudged. I couldn't move out of my parents home fast enough and can't think of much worse than living with them as a grown up (they're not bad, I just LOVE my independance too much.)

Plus, my parents respect my independance and really don't push their boundaries. They've treated me like an adult after I became one so I'm lucky I guess. Then again, I didn't really give them much choice. I supported myself from day 1 on my own.

Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

Posted: 16th Sep 2003
Joan, know the feeling, having moved home from uni am now stuck with the realisation that parents still think of me as a 12 year old at best.
you carn't change there view of you they must change it themselves. they will always see you as there little girl and they will also judge risk by the factors that they associate with something they know and can understand. (know about this as my degree is in Disaster management and risk analysis is big in that!)
what your parents and what every body thinks is that fire is dangous, this is why people love looking and fire spinning because of the beuty but also the presived danger of it. this is because of the way in which we are brought up to respect fire because it is dangerous but what we learn as performers is that the level of danger is mitigated by the process and knowledge we use toi make it safe! for example the fact that the wick of the poi is actually pritty safe to touch as it is not really burning the fuel is and as that is burning of then the heat and energy is as well leaving the poi safe to touch. the screws though holding the wick on are dangerous and hot. it the knowledge of were the risk is that allows us to know the risk that is placed about use when doing the activity. your parents dont know this though and as said earlier you should take your parents through the safty systems that we all use. also though explain the mechanics of the poi and the fire, education is the best way to give people a better uderstanding of risk and the factor of it that could effect you!
in the end though you can not change there view they must learn to trust you and your compitance! they have to do it for your driving skills, theve done it for you crossing the road only by continuing to to it will they come to terms with it.
as just a post to the page now, i disagree with those who say that children should not play with fire poi. my comment to that is what defines a child? in developing countries children are working to support there families at as young as 5, and girls have families and are married at 13! the western world clasifies childhood through its own set of rules. people are old enough to do something if they are fully aware of the consiquences and have the ability to do it. this does not mean they will not make mistakes and do things that are above there reach but that is what makes us human. the role of a parent is to protect a child but also to alow the growth of that child and realise when to allow people to make there own mistakes! unfortunatly we are not all wise men to learn from others mistakes we must make our own!

What you don't know won't hurt you? well i intend to get to know as much as possible so that i can make sure no one else has to so they carn't get hurt.

Posted: 16th Sep 2003
Well, I agree with most of the post that are pro-yourparents. It is a dangerous thing to do and there is a serious health risk involved. BUT...
you understand that don't you? You know when and when not to do fire arts and when you are ready to do new tricks with fire.
So, basically say you understand them, explain that the thing you are doing is not setting yourself on fire(allthough...)
Show them the thing that you are doing and they will understand.
It's the same thing with(my example) swordfighting. My parents allredy saw me comming home without arms and with an axe in my head. But when I took them to a re-enactment event they where quite enthousiastic.

So, understand them and try to explain that you are not "just doing some shit with fire."

Posted: 16th Sep 2003
hey, Onewheeldave, I took this nickname from the song of Leonard Cohen, describing some kind of "romance" between fire and Joan of arc.

My parents dont know it, 'cuz i use it only on this forum, so i dont think that's what worries them


burning Joan

Down from my ceiling
Drips great noise
It drips on my head through a hole in the roof...

Posted: 16th Sep 2003

quote:

---

Originally posted by Joan of Arc:
hey, Onewheeldave, I took this nickname from the song of Leonard Cohen, describing some kind of "romance" between fire and Joan of arc.

---

I've got a Leonard Cohen album with that track on as well- 'Songs of Love and Hate'.

I got it cos' of the song 'Avalanche' which blew me away the first time I heard it.

"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

Posted: 18th Sep 2003
oh, dave, TOTALLY agree with you. Have all Cohen's albums and just love his lazy and sleepy voice.

my favourite: Blue Raincoat

Down from my ceiling
Drips great noise
It drips on my head through a hole in the roof...