-Mike
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella
A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura
Written by :Tom
I don't want to sound snippy or point out possible double standards, but how much right do we actually have to force (scientifically backed) views and opinions on other people?
Written by :Tom
Smoking is an addiction, Nat. It has little to do with reasoning. You got friends who (ab)use drugs?
Written by :Tom
Dunno, may I now have to picture you on festivals, preaching to people not to smoke and to trash their stash, are you inferiously promoting highly cleansed paraffin as fuel for firespinning etc.? Just trying to get my picture right.
Written by Lightning
So in the last week, I have seen two children in horrible bike accidents. Neither was wearing a helmet.
Folks, please wear your helmets for biking and skating and climbing. I know they're uncomfortable, but severe brain damage is far worse.
Written by Fire Tom
As a car/ truck driver it's easy to say: Let's make helmets compulsory - but I'll continue speeding and turning, underestimating anything that moves on two (wheels).
Written by Fire Tom
And I believe in the maxime that unless I endanger your personal safety or pose a direct threat to your property you have no right to tell me what to do with my life.
Written by Wiki
Most states in the United States have managed to retain laws forbidding riding a motorcycle without a helmet or driving without seat belts, on the grounds that accidents cost the entire society in the form of publicly-provided health care costs. These laws are resented among certain segments of the motorcycle-riding public, in particular those that regard riding a motorcycle as an expression of personal freedom, as opposed to riding around in a car.
Written by OWD
Could be any number of things- my opinions are that-
1. the more cyclists there are, the more motorists get used to their presence
2. the more understanding occurs between the two groups
3. the more the two groups come to see themselves as, not enemies, but, fellow road-users
If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh
Written by :Stone
In most countries, motor cyclists are required to wear helmets, and helmets for bicyclists is really just an extension of that regulation. Road rules change, as necessary. So to me, compulsory helmets is just another change in the road rules. Though, I can how some sections of society, perhaps bicyclists, who might not be used to obeying the road rules, might find obeying road rules a bit of a shock
-Mike
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella
A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura
Written by : Firetom
In my State, the reason given for enforcing adults, as well as children, to wear helmets was because the police said the law would be impossible to enforce if it only applied to children. I know it sucks, but when you think about it, it does make sense. Enforcement would be difficult in an environment where some are wearing helmets and other are not wearing helmets.
Written by :natasqi
I would welcome legislation that could increase the general health of the population, even if it may take some of my liberty.
#homeofpoi -- irc.newnet.net Come talk to us we're bored
Warning: Please Do Not Jump On The Seals
Written by : Stone
In my State, the reason given for enforcing adults, as well as children, to wear helmets was because the police said the law would be impossible to enforce if it only applied to children. I know it sucks, but when you think about it, it does make sense. Enforcement would be difficult in an environment where some are wearing helmets and other are not wearing helmets.
Adults set the example for kids, and if helmet laws means that less kids suffer head injuries, then why wouldn’t you support helmet laws? After all, giving up a liberty is a small price to pay for reducing the number of kids with head injuries.
the best smiles are the ones you lead to
#homeofpoi -- irc.newnet.net Come talk to us we're bored
Warning: Please Do Not Jump On The Seals
Written by : Nat
I'm aiming to convert others to the opinion so that it is the majority.
the best smiles are the ones you lead to
Written by :
The bit about having a pulse was to indicate that helmets have saved my life. Sorry you find that “laughable”.
Written by : stoneWritten by : OWD
How would you tell? How did you tell? Was it anything more than a safe feeling you got from wearing a helmet?
I still have a pulse, I’m alive.
Written by : my reply
Sorry mate- but that is laughable.
Think of the multitudes of non-helmet wearers who also have a pulse and are alive- they could use your exact reasoning to prove their (opposite) argument.
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
Written by :LurchWritten by :natasqi
I would welcome legislation that could increase the general health of the population, even if it may take some of my liberty.
And *that* has got to be one of the scariest statements ever uttered on this forum.
Written by : Tom
Yet if I were to present you with a study that proves the burka to prevent sexual harassment (in the middle East) - would you start wearing one and promoting it (in Perth)?
Written by :Nat
If I knew that by bringing in legislation that all women must wear headscarfs (just hair, not full face, and no restrictions on other clothes) would definitely prevent anyone anywhere to be raped ever again, I would wear one.
Written by : University of Michigan
Polio virus is transmitted through feces, via poor sanitation or fecal-oral contact from poor hygiene.
the best smiles are the ones you lead to
Written by :natasqi
Well, for example... the polio vaccine. If this was given at birth by law, in all countries, polio could be eradicated.
Now to be FORCING it on people at birth could be seen as taking away liberty/choice/freedom. But in my mind, I think it's about greater good.
Written by
There was a group of 'new aged/hippy/stereotype' people living in Busselton/Dunsborough which is South of Perth who all decided not to immunise their children.
Written by
But if you found a study to say that in a Western society (to reduce confounding factors and bias), that by bring in a law to make all women wear burkas, and by all women doing so, there was no sexual harrassment at all, no rape etc etc, and no increase in other unwanted factors (racial/discrimination etc)... I would seriously consider supporting the introduction of such a scheme.
Written by
Question for all.
If there was a law that, helmets are not law, but if you are not wearing a helmet, then you do not get public health care (for bicycle related accidents), you have to pay for it yourself... would you still ride without a helmet?
-Mike
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella
A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura
Written by : Doc
Doesn't strike me as fair.
i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey
Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...
Written by :natasqi
OK, so you support vaccines... even though it takes away the choice forever...
-Mike
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella
A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura
Written by Lurch
Hah, I apologize FireTom, I get so used to bickering with you It was in the middle of a long post I didn't see the name/avatar while i was copying.
Written by Lurch
It may not be worth arguing anymore Doc, maybe it's just us American's that treasure our freedoms and our right to choose as much as possible..We don't like giving up such things easily. Look at how much trouble prohibition caused here in the 20's.
Written by Fire Tom
Stone: Roads have been built by taxpayers money. We all own the roads - in equal shares, rights and duties. More so, if you come to my country you're free to use my share of the roads here, without paying toll. We happily provide our roads to you. Even if (for the first time in your life) you rent an Audi A8/ Porsche/ Ferrari and decide to travel at speeds exceeding 240kph.Fire Tom, the roads have indeed been built by taxpayers money.
Written by Fire Tom
And. Hey nobody has the right to come into my living room and tell me to stop (whatever I'm doing).
Written by Fire Tom
@Nat: No personally I would only support those opting for helmets where they would not pose a greater danger to their environment by doing so. In my case a (motorbike) helmet limits my vision, makes me turn my head less and gives me severe headache after a short term. This is why in Germany I opt for a helmet that is not safe, as to obey the law and still be safe according to my personal means.
If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh
Written by :
Lurch, I’m going to raise you on this one. Equally, you could have been in the middle of a long ride or drive and lost concentration. It’s like Stout said, one minute you are driving/riding along, and the next minute you going are going over and over and over. What flashes through the mind is, I’m glad I’m wearing a seat-belt/helmet. And hey, some days we’d just forget to put on our heads, if they weren’t screwed on.
Written by :
Amen! You hit that one on the head. Perhaps you should explore the impact of your pioneering spirit on the American dream. It’s not like you have a choice either, because every time someone wants to introduce something new it’s blocked as a perceived threat to a “personal liberties”. So, in reality you are locked in the past unable to move forwards.
#homeofpoi -- irc.newnet.net Come talk to us we're bored
Warning: Please Do Not Jump On The Seals
Written by :Rouge Dragon
I don't think it's fair for my taxes to pay to treat someone who wilfully placed themselves in danger by not wearing a helmet.
the best smiles are the ones you lead to
Written by :Stone
Lightning, that day when people willing take responsibility for their own lives could be along time coming, in the mean time helmets and seat belts make a lot of sense. Just because you don’t see some laws working is not a reason to abandon the process.
-Mike
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella
A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura
"God *was* my co-pilot, but then we crashed, and I had to eat him..."
Written by :Doc Lightning
Tell me, how many of you have had unprotected sex? How many of you have had sex outside of a committed relationship where both partners waited six months after a negative HIV and other STD tests before engaging in sexual activity? Well, I don't think it's fair that my tax dollars pay to treat your STD's. So anyone who comes in with an STD for reasons other than rape should have to pay a fine on top of their own medical bills.
Written by Lightning
I don't like the line of reasoning you propose because it can be used to nanny too many people and it will never work any more than drug laws stopped me from smoking pot in college.
Written by Fire Tom
When riding on the wrong side of the street I'm aware that I do, will pay even more attention and drive slower.
Written by Fire Tom
Some rules are made so people don't have to think for themselves anymore - applies to cops as well. I respect them wherever I regard them valid and whenever doing otherwise would (IMO) endanger someones life and property, bow to them wherever there's no reason for me to break them/ where cause and effect have no reasonable correlation - but I will continue to disobey where I feel the above is not applicable. .
If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh
Written by : Stone
You enter into an agreement to use public roads. You agree to obey the speed limits, stop at red lights and give way as required etc. So, you loose some of your personal freedom as a requirement to use the public roads. Seat belts and helmets laws are just an additional requirement to use the roads. It is a regulated system.
You asked earlier “Should I suffer a consequence for choosing to be sexually active?” And the answer is No. The Australian governments have made it illegal to discriminate against a person on the grounds of their health status, including having HIV/AIDS. It’s a criminal offense to knowingly transmit AIDS in Australia, and people have been prosecuted. It is also a criminal offense for sexual workers to transmit a STD.
Written by : Andrea
The idea that we are all autonomous , separate beings with complete right to govern self denies the powerful connections of community and relationship. We can do better than simply legislating though. We can strenghten relationships so people can see the connections between their behaviour and others lives, and assume the responsibility naturally, because they care. And because it is the common acceptable standard of the community they live within.
the best smiles are the ones you lead to
"Here kitty kitty...." - Schroedinger.
Written by :Stone
Lightning, I think you are confusing the issues of road laws and with sexuality.
You enter into an agreement to use public roads.
Written by
I think there is a difference between self-inflicted victimless crimes like smoking and bad eating habits and having to wear a seat belt or helmet. Arguably, wearing a seat belt or helmet is as much about protecting people from other road users, and much as themselves.
Written by
Anyhow, how is wearing a seat belt a threat your personal liberties? What are you giving up, nothing much except the right to be selfish?
-Mike
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella
A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura
Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK
Written by
Lurch, I’m impressed you always wear you helmet or seat belt. Most of us aren’t as diligent, and that’s one reason why seat belt laws were introduced. A small price to pay for the community.
Anyhow, how is wearing a seat belt a threat your personal liberties? What are you giving up, nothing much except the right to be selfish?
#homeofpoi -- irc.newnet.net Come talk to us we're bored
Warning: Please Do Not Jump On The Seals
Written by Fire Tom
We follow road rules as to insure a were smooth steady flow of traffic (In Australia). Funny enough in a mostly unregulated system like that in India, it still works.
Written by
According to the experts at the National Transportation Planning and Research Centre (NTPRC) the number of road accidents in India is three times higher than that prevailing in developed countries. The number of accidents for 1000 vehicles in India is as high as 35 while the figure ranges from 4 to 10 in developed countries. Tribune
Written by Lightning
But what you've failed to justify is how making ME wear a seatbelt protects YOU from ME. It protects ME from YOU, but that should be my choice.
And again, I categorically reject the "cost to society" argument because that can be applied to too many draconian rules and regulations.
..who are you to think that you are better than me and can tell me what I should do because I don't want to wear a seatbelt.
Written by Pele
How much of your opinion is based on where you are?
If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh
Written by :Stone
I’m sure it is a requirement to wear a helmet when going down a mine or when entering a construction site. Are those laws also seen as infringements of personal liberties?
-Mike
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella
A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura
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