Forums > Beginner Staff Moves > Doubles Contact: Cross-Base-Flyer-Thingamybobs

Posted: 1st Feb 2006
dude my visualisation engine isnt working.......

can you explain a little more?

Is it a little like devil stick propellors, but alternating the held stick, whilst weaving?

If so, then ive played a little, but i find myself dropping more than i do pulling it off

stick on stick illudes me.......... need to stop all this stick on body milarky i love sooo much and work on it i think

"...We don't stop playing because we get old, we get old because we stop playing......."

Posted: 1st Feb 2006
now ive read that again it is an appalling explanation. Ill get it sorted in my head over UberOz this weekend then update.
it does kindof use some devil stick ideas - but also expands many contact staff priciples about the body to the staff you are holding - ie treating it as an extra limb. far too tired to think more and have to drive 9 hrs tomorow so off to bed for me.
night

"Here kitty kitty...." - Schroedinger.

Posted: 1st Feb 2006
strugz i can explain it in front of you at some point, if you like... but its well hard to visualise....

Holistic Spinner (I hope)

Posted: 1st Feb 2006
Nice one Rob - when you get back over to the cold side of the world, that would be splendid

Although your coming to any of this years conventions

that really is quite pants

I guess ill just have to come and find you instead

"...We don't stop playing because we get old, we get old because we stop playing......."

Posted: 1st Feb 2006
apart from notts, and play... or don't they count..?

Holistic Spinner (I hope)

Posted: 2nd Feb 2006
I seen Kyle doing some stuff like you describe so know there's defo loads there but I defo can't do it.

I live in a world of infinite possibilities.

Posted: 2nd Feb 2006
Play?

whats that




Sweeeet

"...We don't stop playing because we get old, we get old because we stop playing......."

Posted: 2nd Feb 2006
i'd like some photos, preferably with bikinis.
kyle and jay are unreal twirlers - multidisciplinary madness!

Laugh Often, Smile Much, Post lolcats Always

Posted: 2nd Feb 2006
her's the shape, no photos of the conntact yet...


Non-Https Image Link

Holistic Spinner (I hope)

Posted: 2nd Feb 2006
I need more sticks!!!

Drawings by chalk minds, strech between the stars

Kyle Mclean-
Contact without dance is like sex without wiggling.
A) it does feel as good
B) it does not look as good on film

Posted: 2nd Feb 2006
Ahh!

Read it again Dentrassi, whilst using my brain this time and i totally get what you mean - there are a bucket load of things to be done with this type of contact im sure!

The triangle formation your talking about is formed with 2 arms and a stick........... the "other" stick is the one manipulated..... definatley lots to play with - T&B does this sorta thing alot

As for the picture Rob - im sure he said doubles contact........

"...We don't stop playing because we get old, we get old because we stop playing......."

Posted: 2nd Feb 2006
i was just taking the word triangles at face value. as for the triangles variations with two, me n jay n kyle had an awesome session recently... and there will be more

Holistic Spinner (I hope)

Posted: 2nd Feb 2006
like this shape too

Posted: 7th Feb 2006
yeah perhaps triangle theory is a misleading name - it does mainly refer to the two arms and a stick - using that as an base for paddling 1 (or 2 if your kyle ) extra staffs around.

i tend to work things out from the engineering angle, so have been thinking on the drive home a fair bit about how to break it down to some base hold positions and transitions - im not claiming to be inventing much - just trying to get a bit of a framework i work out how to approach it.

anyways hopefully will get time to play around tonight.
cheerio,
E

"Here kitty kitty...." - Schroedinger.

Posted: 7th Feb 2006
*Monkeys round on framework*

Thanks Dentrassi

I live in a world of infinite possibilities.

Posted: 7th Feb 2006
Hey Ed

I just went and had a very productive play with this stuff. Might be a bit too silly to propose as a name, but I think of these as extra limb moves. Quite a large can of worms. Triangles don't really go far enough to describe these moves as you can make quite a few shapes.



So, wanting to come at it from a bit of an analytical approach eh?

I've been meaning to write this down for a while so thanks for the reminder. For positions here's four variables I ended up using as a starting point...



For the pupose of the following I've broken a staff down into 5 points, 3 being around the centre, 1 & 5 the left and right ends, 2&4 the left and right 3/4 points. 0 means absent. This will make more sense soon.

Base stick and flyer stick mean just that.



Basic Variables of Extra Limbage:

1) position of each hand on base staff-

thumb in/ thumb out. Also pos of arms effects which contact moves are available.



2) placement of each hand on base staff

pos 1-5 or 0



3) postion of base staff

front, above head, btb, bth, btl



4) position of flying staff 1-5 (also 0 for a throw or contact)

can be inside or outside of your negitive space



These combine to make more moves than u can poke ur stick at

the flyer stick can be rolled on the base stick and or your body and thrown. (very very small throws can be handy when u need to correct placment.).

please be sure to take good care of your wrists.

Contact without dance is like sex without wiggling.
A) it does feel as good
B) it does not look as good on film

Posted: 7th Feb 2006
for some reason i dont seem any less confused after that post, so i'll just say hear hear to whover has said something about a video being needed

UCOF "evolution: Poi -> stick -> hoops -> devil stick -> juggling club -> juggling ball -> crayons."

Supergroovalsticprosifunkstication
In other words, it's the thumps bump

Posted: 7th Feb 2006
Hey Yoni,
my last post was in response to Dentrassi's searching for the engineering angle and not really meant as a primer to these moves. Have you started playing with contact crosses? That's the basis for getting in to these.

Contact without dance is like sex without wiggling.
A) it does feel as good
B) it does not look as good on film

Posted: 7th Feb 2006
thanx kyle. that helps immensly

"Here kitty kitty...." - Schroedinger.

Posted: 7th Feb 2006
Ok - what Kyle wrote above gives a great idea of directions to explore – but to explain this completely basically to a beginner.



Starting with 2 staff – one shall be the ‘Base’ staff, which for now hold with both hands at slightly wider that shoulder width. The other ‘Flyer’ staff as Kyle calls it, will be balanced by the Base staff and your body.



From here – there’s 2 main starting positions I’ve started to use:

1) Shoulder Cross Stall (SCS) – hold Base staff at chest height slightly off center to the right. Flyer staff is resting perpedicular on the grip of the base staff and your right shoulder - thus making a flat cross

2) Waist Cross Stall (WCS) - hold Base staff at waist-hippish height slightly off center to the right. Flyer staff is resting on the grip of the base staff and gripped under your right armpit. If the flyer is balanced forward of the base staff, you can also use this leverage into the armpit.



Ok – now from both these, try to use the Base staff and your body, to flick the flyer staff around your neck and shoulders in any of the various shoulder-neck-shoulder, halo, shoulder-neckfront-shoulder contact moves.



Explaining further, from SCS, with cross on your right side, paddle the flyer staff over behind your head in a Halo, (twisting body with Halo is useful but not essential) and catch in a SCS on your left side.



Then try with a right WCS – halo roll – left WCS. Use the Base to flick with Flyer over your shoulder from the front, then twist left to halo BTH, then let it roll down the left shoulder – and lock under left armpit, balanced by the Base, in left side WCS.



Now try these with a shoulder-neckfront-shoulder – this is a bit tricker - but its immensely satifying



Other things to explore – from WCS see if you can enter this moves from the back of the shoulder.



Another nice variation is to go from SCS to WCS – start Right SCS, Label the far end of the flyer as point 1. Flick the flyer AC horizontal (twist your body and use shoulders to start it off), and follow the Base to the flyer so its always in a cross. As Point 1 of the flyer rotates around, your arms should naturally be part cross so that the base continues to balance the flyer without it falling off. As the point 1 passes your chest and rotates out. Your arms should uncross naturally, and end up in Left side WCS, with Point 1 on the flyer away from you again.



Now, start trying some of the contact transitions with the base and flyer, and changing from WCS to SCS to give some variety.



Also play around with either guiding the flyer with the base in a cross for the entire move, or using a snappier flick with the base to propell the flyer around and not to use the base at all to guide the flyer.



If you’ve got this idea – then go back to Kyle’s post, and starting looking at some of the variations of grip and hand position on the base, and other ideas.



I've explained the aspect which is probably the easiest; the Steve family of variations looks mightily impressive – but will post later.



E
EDITED_BY: Dentrassi (1139359652)

"Here kitty kitty...." - Schroedinger.

Posted: 8th Feb 2006
ok cool that makes evrything much clearer, sounds like damn good fun to play with

UCOF "evolution: Poi -> stick -> hoops -> devil stick -> juggling club -> juggling ball -> crayons."

Supergroovalsticprosifunkstication
In other words, it's the thumps bump

Posted: 9th Feb 2006
hmmm just noticed theres a few extra things you need to do to nail some of the moves i mentioned. dont have time to edit now though - but you should be able to figure most of them out.
E

"Here kitty kitty...." - Schroedinger.

Posted: 9th Feb 2006
Yeah this is fun stuff. Makes my head hurt like glowsticking mindgames.

"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

Posted: 9th Feb 2006
your all crazier than coconuts !!!

Posted: 9th Feb 2006
ok - heres some basic steve based ideas.



you can either start this on right SCS - also my preference is to hold base staff in both hands, and spin around doing flat SNShalos with the flyer until i feel its positioned correctly.

so, from either method, quarter-steve the flyer down the right arm - with the center mark offset to the outside of your arm. This is still holding onto the base with both hands. You will have to raise the right end of your base staff to about head height and spin AC a bit to help the quartersteve around as usual. *only raise the right end so the staff will be 30-45 deg ish ..

As the flyer gets to the right wrist, paddle your right wrist (& thus also right end of staff) back a bit, and if the staff is on the previously mentions angle, your wrist should be bent to the left. The flyer should roll around the pinkie side of your right hand, around and roll onto the top of your base staff.

if your staff is still at that angle, it will start rolling down your left side while still rotating AC.



This is the basic pricinple of this family. From here, you can

- do the opposite thing on the left side, quarter steve it down, and start at the beginning (can do somewhat dodgily 1/3 times)

- do the opposite thing in the left side, but flick it back onto the staff to roll down to right side and repeat continuously (this was the first one i saw kyle working on a couple of months back - its still my favourite - but bloody hard! my record is 3 full spins round both my wrists)

- roll up to your left wrist, but then letting it roll back down to your right to do the same thing in a slightly easier continuous loop.



A really important tip for this concept is to imagine your paddling a kayak in reverse with the base. this action give the angle for the roll, and the backwards motion to help flick around the wrist.



seeing someone nail this is beautiful

once again - when you play around and being to understand this - go back to kyles post about variations and play around with it a bit



cheerio!

E
EDITED_BY: Dentrassi (1139532908)

"Here kitty kitty...." - Schroedinger.

Posted: 10th Feb 2006
was playing with allot last night, its pretty sewwt ass stuff. pretty damned hard too.

UCOF "evolution: Poi -> stick -> hoops -> devil stick -> juggling club -> juggling ball -> crayons."

Supergroovalsticprosifunkstication
In other words, it's the thumps bump

Posted: 13th Feb 2006
Think this is pretty much what I call staff on staff contact but coming at it for a slightly different angle.



There's so much potenial for new moves down this avenue it's hard to know where to start, personally I find knowing abit of devil sticks and adapting it to staff works nicely.



If your still confused to what it is think there abit of me doing it in durb's falmouth 3 vid somewhere in the tim section (it's abit messy but I hadn't been doing it long when that was shot so maybe you'll let me off)



oh yeah it's on stugz's website https://www.soton-firespinning.co.uk/

EDITED_BY: T&B (1139849718)

Maybe I should change this too something abit nicer, humm no I still think your all Ct