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Forums > Social Discussion > It's about time! New Dove ad campaign

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Pele
BRONZE Member since Dec 2000

Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA

Total posts: 6193
Posted:http://www.dove.com/
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I *LOVE* this. It is sooooo fantastic and about freakin' time that a major "beauty" corporation realised their sales will be better if you associate your product with real people and not airbrushed, glamazons with a fleet of stylists working on them or celebrities.

These women are beautiful!

And People magazine had the audacity to print a title on the cover that said something like "New Dove Models: Fab or Fat?"

FAT??? eek

Anyway, I wanted to share something that I personally view as a corporate step in a healthy direction. smile


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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Seye
SILVER Member since Mar 2005

Seye

Geek
Location: Manchester, UK

Total posts: 1261
Posted:Have you seen the advert though?

Its people complaining about bits of their bodies then it says (in not so many words) "Hey dont worry about it. Shower with dove and you'll feel great anyway." Its still women stating how imperfect they think they are and still feeding most womens neurosis.

People should either be happy with who they are or do some exercise. Not change their shower gel. Unless they smell of course...


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Pele
BRONZE Member since Dec 2000

Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA

Total posts: 6193
Posted:Interesting. I saw the interviews with the models and none of them say stuff like that in the interviews. They all say they know they are imperfect, and are fine with it because it is what makes them unique.

In fact here are some quotes from an interview I read in WD magazing (I think)..

Stacey: "I'm proud of my body and think all women shoud be proud of theirs too. I was ready to do whatever it took to show women everywhere that it's okay to be curvy."

Gina: "Almost every girl I know has struggled with body-image issues. I love that this campaign addresses these issues in a positive, fearless, honest way.

Gina: "I love that I have curly hair, a mole on my face and a curvy figure."

I haven't seen the ads you have mentioned at all seye. The ads I have seen have been positive and so have the interviews.
And in the end, the fact is, they are honestly admitting what they don't like and "pampering" (as that's what Dove claims to do) themselves anyway and standing proudly and publically. So...how is that bad?


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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Seye
SILVER Member since Mar 2005

Seye

Geek
Location: Manchester, UK

Total posts: 1261
Posted:Its still drawing attention to the little things that people obsess about with regards to their bodies. If it really didnt matter would these people mention it at all?

While it may seem like a step in the right direction it is just perpetuating the *I'm not perfect* complex by drawing attention to it.



Why not have these women in the adverts and not mention that they think that they are imperfect? Just use them in the same way that they use the standard airbrushed supermodels. Why not actually tell us something about the product? That way it would actually have the effect that you say its aiming for.



Its an advertising company trying to be smart but at the same time noting that there is a 'paranoid about appearance' demographic to sell to.


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Pele
BRONZE Member since Dec 2000

Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA

Total posts: 6193
Posted:Ummmm....yeah, Of course they are going to sell to a paranoid about appearance demographic, just like every clothing company, every make-up, cosmetic, etc company on the face of the earth. To think they would do otherwise ever is very either optomistic or ignorant. They are a corporation and have every right to market their stuff. At least this is not yet one more "wear this and be sexy at age 14" ad. I am sooooo sick of those.



Because people are imperfect and many women have this notion that women in magazines, models and celebrities *are* perfect. I know...one of the things I do in my classes is make women face those imperfections head on and learn to love themselves. And I am the ideal of their demographic. I am a 31 yo female with real curves and purchasing power. I am their bullseye and I am okay with that. I don't expect anything less from them or I would doubt their success. The fact that they are marketting a product, or what the product is..is not the point at all...



By having these women be real sized and PUBLICALLY point out that they are not perfect in a real and honest way they are reaching out and connecting with all of the women in the world who think the same way. It is honest and real.

To NOT say it would be dishonest and lead people to think they are airbrushed.



After searching the net I saw the "print" ad and I do not at all see the negativity in it. They are strong women who are celebrating their strengths and their "flaws", not lamenting them at all...and that is how it should be done because those things which we concider our more physical imperfections are what makes us unique and wonderful.



And seeing someone admit it without whining and moaning and instead saying "So what" about it is EXTREMELY empowering and I can not wait to show this to my students. I've already pointed the ads out to others who think as positively as I do about it, including some very heavy women.



Acknowledgement and acceptence out loud are far better than silence in this case, and make a much stronger statement.



Honestly, I think that to try to turn something positive into something negative, as you are, is part of what these women are fighting. So what if it is an ad...that is the point! A corporate machine is *finally* recognizing it's target audience (when was the last time you looked through the eyes of a 25+ "average" woman or bought a Dove product?) as what matters, and is approaching them in a way that will connect with them with women who are real and not airbrushed to a size 0....just like my friends and I.

It is a BEAUTIFUL thing.

EDITED_BY: Pele (1123725285)


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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Kyrian


Dreamer
Location: York, England

Total posts: 4308
Posted:Wow. Interesting, too, because I have a good friend who's into image manipulation (as an amatuer) and so can generally spot what they've done in adverts... He hates looking at them because he hates how bizarre the woman look (indeed they are often porportioned in ways which, um, just don't make sense! like they halve the size of their arms and such....) There's a really good site which shows it, I'll try and find the link. He's going to love this. And I personally am floored. Whoever the art director is at Dove should have a party thrown for them!

Keep your dream alive
Dreamin is still how the strong survive

Shalom VeAhavah

New Hampshire has a point....

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flid
BRONZE Member since Aug 2002

flid

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Warwickshire

Total posts: 3136
Posted:Written by: Pele
I *LOVE* this. It is sooooo fantastic and about freakin' time that a major "beauty" corporation realised their sales will be better if you associate your product with real people and not airbrushed, glamazons with a fleet of stylists working on them or celebrities



really? The dove advertising in the UK as long as I can remember has always been quite mumsey, they've never claimed it's got some foreign sounding scientific thing in it (which actually is another name for water). Also, these real women they've chosen, they're not really that real are they? OK, they arn't models, but they arn't far off the sort of people you'd expect to see on TV soaps (ie not plastic that everyone hates them but not too bad so at least a few people fancy them - helps ratings). Give me a car and a few hours to drive around skegness and I could pick out some right mingers they'd never show on their billboards.


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Seye
SILVER Member since Mar 2005

Seye

Geek
Location: Manchester, UK

Total posts: 1261
Posted:Written by: Pele


Honestly, I think that to try to turn something positive into something negative, as you are, is part of what these women are fighting. So what if it is an ad...that is the point! A corporate machine is *finally* recognizing it's target audience (when was the last time you looked through the eyes of a 25+ "average" woman or bought a Dove product?) as what matters, and is approaching them in a way that will connect with them with women who are real and not airbrushed to a size 0....just like my friends and I.



My bathroom is full of Dove soap. It has been since its release in the UK. (thats not to say I think its great, their science leaves a lot to be desired - normal soap kills my skin)



You are just plain wrong about 'turning something positive, into something negative'. You are extremely nieve for someone of your apparent wisdom.



Just because 'every other company does it' does not make it ok. There are hundreds of companies using 'real women' to advertise their products. It is just a way of fooling you into thinking that they have you specifically in mind. They dont. They just want your money. They are covering your demographic right now. Give them a few months and they will start to cover another one.



If a company is advertising a product they should be telling us 'about the product' and nothing else. I have no interest in who uses it and how perfect or imperfect these people are. Anyone who see's adverts and thinks "Oh my god, I should look like that, my body is just so crap." is just stupid and easy to sell to. How often to do you see some musclebound 'hero' guy in an advert? I dont think that just because he is on TV I should look like him. How ridiculous would that be!



You sound like you have some issues about yourself when you have absolutely no need to (the neurosis I mentioned). So do most other women. It drives me nuts. No one expects you to be perfect BUT YOU. YOU create the stereotype and the problem. People come in all shapes and sizes. You should be happy with who you are. If you are not, do some exercise. If that doesnt work accept that your shape is natural and just be happy.



Ladies of the board... It is not ok to be paranoid and neurotic all the time. This is not a film, TV series or an advert. This is real life. What you think of as imperfections are what make you INDIVIDUAL. Please, there is no need to keep going "err, well, I could do with getting half an inch off my waist." or "I'd really like to lose 1lb" no-one really cares but you. This kind of paranoid behaviour is actually REALLY unnatractive.


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Kyrian


Dreamer
Location: York, England

Total posts: 4308
Posted:Hi Seye..... don't know if you know it but that comes of as quite the rant...

But to address actual content, the problem with stereotypes is that they have been pointed out for as long as they have. Some people are more affected than others, but at this point only active education the other way will even come close to changing people's minds. And, its not even close to true that no one expects woman to be perfect except them. For starters, there's other woman! And boy are they brutal. And whilst men definetly don't expect anything like the same degrees of perfection (for example they might expect perfect breasts, or legs, (not both) but be ok with an extra few inches of fat on the stomach, but they still often expect to keep some of perfections trappings.... And other men *can* be quite hard on men, as well...

Whilst I agree that being paranoid and neurotic all of the time is a bad thing (it would be strange if i didn't, huh?) you getting the woman to shut up in your presence won't solve the problem. (Well, maybe from your perspective, I don't know). I think complaining should be limited to those who are actually trying- just IMO- but there's certainly situations where things just need to change a bit and it doesn't seem to be working and I'm going to have to sympathize, because society at large isn't willing to work very hard with imperfections. I'm absolutly in love with my body right now despite wanting to switch something up so I can wear the other 2/3rds of my wardrobe tongue But that comes after a whole period of things like bieng overweight and hating my hair.... and even the nicest of guys tell me what an improvement it is, so what else should I think?


Keep your dream alive
Dreamin is still how the strong survive

Shalom VeAhavah

New Hampshire has a point....

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Seye
SILVER Member since Mar 2005

Seye

Geek
Location: Manchester, UK

Total posts: 1261
Posted:Sorry about ranting redface

I just think that there are some ridiculous things happening in the world at the moment. Particularly people perpetuating the problems that they say they are trying to solve. I'm not sure about the states but in the UK this is happening more and more.

Back to the problem at hand...
This advertising campaign draws attention to the fact that most women are obsessed with what they see as imperfections with their bodies.

I'd love to see (well no actually I couldnt care less but, I'd be impressed if I saw) a campaign whith normal women where they are not making a point of the women not being perfect.

TBH I hate people trying to 'sell' things to me. All I need to know is what it does, if it useful I will buy it. Too many companies focus on marketting and fail miserably when it comes to actually designing a better product than their competitors.
The concept of 'marketting' in this sense was first designed by the Nazi's and was originally called 'propoganda'. Its just been repackaged to make it more paletable to the consumer.


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Kyrian


Dreamer
Location: York, England

Total posts: 4308
Posted:No arguments about the marketing thing! And I do agree about the selling, but... most people respond to it, so its a good idea from a companies point of view tongue

I agree on the whole about perpatrating problems that are supposed to be solved (have you SEEN any american media? Its shameful! Especiallt the govt stuff!) but thats neither here nor there, because I think this particular case there's a lot of good being done. Everyone already knows they arn't perfect in this generation, so they have to accept it on the terms they learned it on, I fear. Maybe we can get a younger generation not to notice at all, but it'd take some doing. And since companies prey on fear, I don't think we'd be allowed too.


Keep your dream alive
Dreamin is still how the strong survive

Shalom VeAhavah

New Hampshire has a point....

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Loewan
BRONZE Member since Aug 2005

Loewan

and behold!
Location: Liverpool

Total posts: 464
Posted:I don't get it? It is still down to image tho isn't it? IMO if Dove want to make an honest move to a more "down-to-earth" position, they wouldn't have made such a big song and dance about it. Its hard not to feel that they are just milking on this concept of the norm or singing from the "we are not like the others" hymn sheet. My bet is, once this campaign is over, we will be back to the eye-candies again! And I for one ain't going to complain! tongue

Why let your body be a temple? When it can be a theme park?

Wii Console Number: 3294 0297 7824 7498

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onewheeldave
GOLD Member since Aug 2002

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield

Total posts: 3252
Posted:It's a fair bet that Doves true motive is to up profits- that is the aim of business.

However, this does not stop their approach also having the benefits that Pele mentions, and, by vocalising her/their approval (and their disapproval over the current disproportionate use of 'ideal' bodies in other campaigns), women convey to marketing companies that there are advantages to them (the companies) if they adopt the same approach.

ie- the companies who use 'realistic' women and men in their ad campaigns benefit because, those comsumers who are fed-up with the current over-emphasis on 'ideal' bodies will vote with their cash.

And the consumer benefits because they get less ads based around perfect bodies.

Seye- whilst it is true that, ideally, women (and men) would not feel pressured by ads focusing on 'prefect' bodies, the fact is that many are not capeable of viewing things from that lofty perspective.

Partly this is because the ads do not soley target women and men, because those women and men where once children, and, from childhood, they have been bombarded constantly with this corrupt message from TV, magazines and their peers.

Children lack the means to defend against this kind of pervasive message, and many will carry the negative self image into their adult lives.


"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

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Doc Lightning
GOLD Member since May 2001

Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA

Total posts: 13920
Posted:I think there tends to be a reaction to this sort of thing that condemns ALL concern for one's own appearance as "superficial," especially when such concern moves even remotely in the direction of "classical beauty."

I think it's normal to care about the way we look. In fact, failure to properly groom oneself is often a big hint that a person has some psychopathology. It's not HOW you groom yourself, I might add. Dredlocks and a flowing skirt are still grooming, it's THAT you groom yourself. Cats do it, mice do it, most animals do.

That said, I agree that it's abnormal to insist on perfection. Even supermodels have their photos touched up because not even Naomi Campbell is good enough to look like her photos.

So I think this promotes a healthy view of one's own body.

Yes, it's about profit. Profit isn't inherently a bad thing. Profit at any cost is a bad thing.


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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BansheeCat
BRONZE Member since Jul 2005

veteran
Location: lost

Total posts: 1247
Posted:I like the image of real women, that is a bit of a relief. Irony in that they are still being used to promote some kind of a firming gel... ?!

So yeah, it is about profit, and about using womens/peoples insecurities to make a profit.


That said, I think it will do some good just in general to have images of actually porpotionned people in advertisements. And diversity too. I rarely pay much attention to these things( no tv, no magazines) but it is repeatedly shown in studies to be a significant influence on the self esteem development of young women. So if they can see images closer to their own, or at least more variety, maybe they will be more comfortable with themselves...

Speaking of early influences on body image and self esteem- some of my classmates in University did an analysis of the physical proportions of Barbie Doll. As you might expect, she is distinctly mutant! I can not recall the details, but basically there was not way her body could even actually fit her internal organs, or her skeletal proportions actually support her massive head. She would not be able to lift anything, or even stand upright. They did a hilarious paper, assuming that if someone born that way actually lived to adult hood, what kind of physical challenges/disease they would have...

Funny, but shocking, since this is the doll many people are still raised with...


"God *was* my co-pilot, but then we crashed, and I had to eat him..."

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newgabe
SILVER Member since Mar 2005

newgabe

what goes around comes around. unless you're into stalls.
Location: Bali

Total posts: 4030
Posted:a PERFECT female body means what exactly?
She can heal by laying on hands?
She is immortal and never dies?
She can have babies painlessly and possibly without even having sex?
She can pack on enough body fat in a short summer to survive a long winter?
She's strong enough to cut her own timber and fight off anyone who threatens her or her family?
Just seeing her brings enlightenment and release from cyclic suffering of existence!!!

Nah, don't worry, I'm not stupid. I know that in our culture 'perfect'is supposed to mean conforming to a relatively random set of predetermined physical proportions...currently set by what, gay clothes designers? Demanding what Tom Wolfe gorgeously calls 'boys with breasts'

Just in my life I've seen it go from Marilyn Munro (size 16 on a thin day) Twiggie (size 6 with PMT) And eating disorders, depression and mental distress turn into an epidemic down to primary school.

Never ever let any of you ever say again the words 'perfect' or 'imperfect' in relation to a fucntioning human body. 'Letting women be imperfect' Bulldust! Reinforcing the very disease just by saying the words.


.....Can't juggle balls but I sure as hell can juggle details....

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Doc Lightning
GOLD Member since May 2001

Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA

Total posts: 13920
Posted:The irony is this:

The firming gel doesn't, of course, work. Cellulite is caused by changes in the tissues below the outer layer of skin. There is no cream that can penetrate that low. You can smear all the collagen and hyaluronic acid you want on your skin, but it won't soak in. The molecules are too big.

So although it promotes a healthy body image and makes Dove money...it's a sham.


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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Rozi
SILVER Member since Jan 2002

100 characters max...
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia

Total posts: 2996
Posted:Written by: newgabe

I know that in our culture 'perfect'is supposed to mean conforming to a relatively random set of predetermined physical proportions...currently set by what, gay clothes designers? Demanding what Tom Wolfe gorgeously calls 'boys with breasts' ...

Never ever let any of you ever say again the words 'perfect' or 'imperfect' in relation to a fucntioning human body. 'Letting women be imperfect' Bulldust! Reinforcing the very disease just by saying the words.



Can I just quietly fall in love with you? ubblove

No perfect, no imperfect, just is.

I do understand the point that others are trying to make here, which is that we are making a big step by portraying a wider range of body types than just the "boys with breasts".

However what we need is not a step, it is a paradigm shift. A shift that enables us to see all people as they are, without requiring those confining definitions of gender, race, appearance etc.

Its gonna be a long time coming. I find it hard enough to do in my own life. So maybe I am happy to have improved Dove Ads as a first step. But in the longer term, I am not going to settle for that alone.


It was a day for screaming at inanimate objects.

What this calls for is a special mix of psychology and extreme violence...

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