Page: ...
StoneGOLD Member
Stream Entrant
2,829 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia


Posted:
Ever wondering Y the best equipped military force in history does so poorly in battle, and shoots all its allies???

Well I did, and now I know. They’re all drugged to the eyeballs on speed, just like the Nazis were in WW11 .

If U don’t believe me, the Aussies can watch THE CUTTING EDGE - THE NEED FOR SPEED - Going to War on Drugs on SBS TV tonight.

SBS TV Extract
quote:
When Tom Cruise uttered those famous words in the film Top Gun, "I feel the need, the need for speed", he would not have known that his words had already been taken literally by the U.S. Air Force, in a way he could never have imagined.

This documentary exposes how the Air Force, Navy and Special Forces have been issuing mind-altering drugs to their soldiers and airmen - almost certainly resulting in the deaths of allied forces and innocent civilians. In an extraordinary investigation, American military personnel speak for the first time, to explain how they were used as guinea pigs in wars ranging from the Gulf, Bosnia, Afghanistan and right up until the recent conflict in Iraq. We also discover that vital information on 'friendly fire' incidents has been withheld and examine the true human costs of wars fought on drugs.

If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh


Raymund Phule (Fireproof)Enter a "Title" here:
2,905 posts
Location: San Diego California


Posted:
Yep, this is somewhat true. Pilots (dont know any special forces) do use a caffeen pill for long flights and or missions. Is this to blame for accidents? Sorry no.

There are alot of possible reasons why FF incindents happen.

Malfunctioning equipment, US tanks and other large vehicles have the ability to transmit a FF beacon. When this doesnt work, bad things happen.

GPS scramblers, yes even Iraq has these and has used them in both Gulf Wars.

Bad intel

faulty equipment


I have driven some very long distances 4 cross country trips and two half crountry trips under my belt I can tell you one thing, caffeen and other no doze type drugs do not cause problems that would effect ones preformance.

Is it technically mind altering, yes... speeking of I need to go get some caffeen.

Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"


StoneGOLD Member
Stream Entrant
2,829 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia


Posted:
Caffeine pills, perhaps.
Dex amphetamine, yes.

A tradition that goes back to the Berserkers, hey

If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh


UCOFSILVER Member
15,417 posts
Location: South Wales


Posted:
Me and Chris were discussing the easiest way to have faught the war in Iraq and came up with this solution:

WHat does England have lots of?

Pubs.

and what are there a load of in these pubs?

Pissed druggie skinhead racists.

so our idea was to go round the pubs at chucking out time recruiting all the pissheads, give them 1/5th Kg of Coke...and let them loose in Iraq.

Killing everything indiscriminatly regardless of ethnicity, religion, colour, political bias.......

hang on

...isnt that what the Americans did?..



OJ!

Raymund Phule (Fireproof)Enter a "Title" here:
2,905 posts
Location: San Diego California


Posted:
Wow a bunch of hate-mongerers in here, hrm... next generation terrorists maybe? Liberal extreemists, all drugged up and ready to **** the first thing that walks by be it man or beast!

Hrm I thought that if you were liberal you were supposed to be open minded and accepting of all? And arnt the Brittish supposed to be open minded?

Well it was the British who started the whole enslavment of the Africans, not to mention the attempted breading out of Scotish blood. Hrm what other types of genocide will they prefor in the up comming molenium? Not to mention their continued oppresion of religious freedome in Ireland. I guess they are afraid that if they loose that part of their country, that it will out prosper them in less than a century like America did when it seperated from the oppressors.

Hey guys, erase the hate!

Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"


Raymund Phule (Fireproof)Enter a "Title" here:
2,905 posts
Location: San Diego California


Posted:
No Frosty and violence was not even mentioned in that scentance just drugs and sex.

I figure if yall can be dicks, why cant I?

Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"


NoonaBRONZE Member
Cake lover
258 posts
Location: Button Moon, United Kingdom


Posted:
hehehe UCOF made me chuckle anyway

poiaholic22member
531 posts

Posted:
You know the one thing that I think a lot of people can't seem to get a grasp of is that it is a war and hey, sh1t happens in war.

There are no rules only consequences.

poiaholic22member
531 posts

Posted:
quote:
Originally posted by The United Chains of Fire (Jon):

Killing everything indiscriminatly regardless of ethnicity, religion, colour, political bias.......

hang on

...isnt that what the Americans did?..


And just in my opinion ... smiley or no smiley that was uncalled for.

StoneGOLD Member
Stream Entrant
2,829 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia


Posted:
I found the doco was pretty boring after a while, but it’s certainly not based on wild accusations against the US air force. It's true, US pilots are given go-pills (dex amphetamine) to help them fly missions.

They interviewed pilots, ex pilots, squadron leaders, victims, US air force medico’s etc. The US air force does not deny sending pilots out with bags of go-pills, in fact they defend their right to use go-pills, and pilots are not allowed to fly if they don’t agree to popping pills. Unfortunately, no advice is given to pilots on how to use go-pills, and some take them like candy and end up addicted. It certainly seem likely the amphed up pilots have been responsible for the death of British and Canadian soldiers as well as many civilians

Now, would u guys travel in a commercial plane if u knew the pilot was on go-pills?????????

If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh


Raymund Phule (Fireproof)Enter a "Title" here:
2,905 posts
Location: San Diego California


Posted:
Mmm... you would be supprised what can happen during ops.

I know of people being run over by tanks while acting as the ground guide for the tank.

This was in peace time too... accidents happen, people make mistakes. However just because a documentery makes things seem a certain way, it doesnt mean that they are that way.


Have you seen these docs. on Discovery Channel about future insects? I mean like millions of years in the future. It is all speculation but I garuntee you that somebody out there will view it as fact.

Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"


StoneGOLD Member
Stream Entrant
2,829 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia


Posted:
No speculation here Ray. There was footage where these issues (US pilots on drugs) were being discussed in the British parliament, in relation to the death of British soldiers.

If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh


Raymund Phule (Fireproof)Enter a "Title" here:
2,905 posts
Location: San Diego California


Posted:
Okay the phrasing of topic is an issue too.

Sounds like they are trying to say that they are all on crack/acid/pot/STD/PCP/LSD whatever the rest of yall are on.

In a war time situation there are many things that can go wrong.

Since I didnt see the Doc. I need you to be 100% honest, did they say that there were no other possible reasons for the accidents?

If not, to jump to the conclusion that the super no doze that they take, is nothing but speculation.

Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"


StoneGOLD Member
Stream Entrant
2,829 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia


Posted:
Ray, enjoy your denial while Rome burns

Did they say that there were no other possible reasons for the accidents? NO, of course not, they neve say 100% anything; that’s naïve. But, the British and Canadian governments are extremely concerned that go-pill are implicated in the death of their soldiers, and that's good enough for me.

super no doze that’s a nice euphemism for speed

As said previously, the US air force does not deny forcing pilots to take drugs. In fact they defend their policy on “go-pill”. It is not speculation to suggest that this policy could lead to accidents. As u know, drugs are dangerous. Y do u think they don’t let truckies and commercial pilots use em???

If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh


Raymund Phule (Fireproof)Enter a "Title" here:
2,905 posts
Location: San Diego California


Posted:
Obviusly it isnt speed nor is it a crontroled drug IE illeagle.

Next, tell your Govs. to mind their own damn business. I mean your alwasy bitching about how terrible it is for America to show "concerns" about the way your government does business, guess what, now its my turn.

I never said they were forced, secondly I never said anything about the Air Force... read again!


I do not know exactly what it is that they take, I'll ask one of our pilots on Monday for a name. I can also tell you that I dont know if comercial pilots and truckers use or dont use them.

Are they illeagle? I dont think so. Then again they may be illeagle for civilians to own/use, then again you cant exactly drive a tank on the weekends for fun

Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"


Tikamember
106 posts
Location: BC, Canada


Posted:
quote:
Obviusly it isnt speed nor is it a crontroled drug IE illeagle.

I don't think anyone here said that it was speed. I think people maybe it clear that it was dex-amphetamine otherwise known as Dexedrine, which is prescribed as a ADHD drug for children. But just because it's prescribed to children doesn't make it any less dangerous and highly addictive then any other amphetamine. I have known quite a few kids and friends who became highly dependent on Dexedrine. Also you have to remember these drug are prescribe for ADHA and Narcolepsy not to help you stay up while you fly a plane. Some effects of amphetamines that (I think anyways) call for concern are blurred vision,loss of coordination, uncontrollable movements (twitching, jerking, tremors, etc...), a false sense of self-confidence or superiority, ect. Obviously a lot more dangerous then a caffiene pill. Whether it's illegal or not is besides the point as prescription drugs can and are as addictive as illegal drugs.

quote:
Next, tell your Govs. to mind their own damn business.
It is our governments business to find out what happen when 4 of our soldiers were killed and 8 injured.

quote:
secondly I never said anything about the Air Force... read again!

Didn't you ask stone to be 100 % honest about the "doc."? And aren't we all talking about the US Air force?

UCOFSILVER Member
15,417 posts
Location: South Wales


Posted:
ritalin.

Raymund Phule (Fireproof)Enter a "Title" here:
2,905 posts
Location: San Diego California


Posted:
When Stone said
quote:
As said previously, the US air force does not deny forcing pilots to take drugs
and when I missread it and thought he said "As you said..." thats why I brought up the USAF. My bust. However every branch of the US armed forces has pilots... not just the USAF. Once again... my bust folks sorry for my confusion.


If the pilot had not been on dexedrin, would the FF incident still have happend? I would wager that it would have.

quote:
It is our governments business to find out what happen when 4 of our soldiers were killed and 8 injured.
Well... if you wanna play that card, why do you care if the US Gov wants to find and bring to justice those who conspired and killed 3000 people? Especially when it was no accident!


Accidents happen, things look different from the air. A muzzle flash looks the same when its pointed at you as it does when it is horizontal with the ground, especially at a few thousand feet! ((in referance to the accidental bombing of Canadian troops))

I dont know all the facts on that case, so I will say no more.


How many FF accidents have there been? A handfull maybe a dozen or so?

How many sorties are flown every day that do not have FF accodents?

Did the Doc. forget to mention those two key points? I would wager that it was very one sided and did not.

Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"


Original Pyromember
26 posts
Location: Leeds, England


Posted:
You wanna summoit cool about the british government? They grow stupid amounts of weed in the countryside. Wanna Know how I know this:? I've been there, up to my waist in weed n it was great.

Take the power back


Raymund Phule (Fireproof)Enter a "Title" here:
2,905 posts
Location: San Diego California


Posted:
Actually my position on all FF incidents, is that it is horrible. Finding the real cause, and not blaming the easiest possibility, is the only thing you can do to help ease the loss to the family memebers.


quote:
I'm sure the iraqis and the afghans would like to see the american soldiers who tortured raped and pillaged caught and dealt with too
Yep uhhuh, there were many cases of whole towns being sacked and the women tied up and raped and stores and banks pillaged for their endless bounty.

Yes I do embrace the idea of research into the prevention of FF incidents. However unlike you I dont look for the easiest explination.

A great English author once had his character say, "Once you have emilimated all impossibilities, what ever remains however improbable, must be the truth."

However, do you know all the facts off the FF incidents? I dont, and I would bet my next years pay, that you dont know everything either. So, when your done speculating, come and find me and we will have a real debate

Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"


Raymund Phule (Fireproof)Enter a "Title" here:
2,905 posts
Location: San Diego California


Posted:
Just talked to one of my pilots, the rumor that you heard that they are forced to take them... BULL SHIT total bull shit. He has never taken any.

Second there are two types of pills that are there, one to keep you awake, one to help you sleep after taking the other.

He has also said (just so you know I am not holding back) that it is possible that there could be a connection between some FF incidents and the pill.

Then again he also confirmd that at 300+ miles/hour and at a few thousand feet things look differnt. He also said that there isnt any difference between a muzzle flash that is pointed along the ground and a muzzle flash pointed at you.


If someone wants to come up with all the facts about these FF incidents that the doc. talked about feel free... I would like to see them.

Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"


brainstormaBRONZE Member
old hand
1,184 posts
Location: under the fairie wheel, Australia


Posted:
ok question how is it that the US army is the bigest in the world has the bigest isidents of acidental death dew to mis understanding so to speak of there target??

yesterday it was reported that a camra man was shot down and killed outside a jail by US troupe while he was filming them

there eplination was they they thought he had a rocket lerncher

now if im not mistaken all press wear flack jakets woth "press" on the fromt and back and the last time i looked a tv camra looks nothing like a rocket larnch. the only simularity is that they are both held on the sholder

if this another case of fatige in solders??

ray there is documented evidance of the selected groups of pilots where givent forms to sign stating they it was there choice to take the pills but if they didnt sign they would not be alowed into the air this was ment to be volentery so in esens these forms where illigal and imoral to force these man to take class a drugs which state in plane writing not to use heavy machinry while under the influnce

"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, champagne in one hand, strawberries in the other, body thoroughly used up, and screaming "WOO-HOO What a ride!"


Raymund Phule (Fireproof)Enter a "Title" here:
2,905 posts
Location: San Diego California


Posted:
Okay, I have yet to hear about the reporter. I also know that you dont have all the facts about it.

Was it day or night, was he wearing the flack, where was he standing? Hrmm what other things can effect a situation.


quote:
ray there is documented evidance of the selected groups of pilots where givent forms to sign stating they it was there choice to take the pills but if they didnt sign they would not be alowed into the air this was ment to be volentery so in esens these forms where illigal and imoral to force these man to take class a drugs which state in plane writing not to use heavy machinry while under the influnce
Look, I am not trying to rationalise anything, nor am I arguing the legality or the morality of the use of the pills.

My pilot, a guy I work with every day, says he isnt forced to take them. He even said that he hasnt take them.


What it says on the bottle is irrelivent, why? Because that involves use for the general public, last time I checked the military was not the general public.

Yes in some cases we are above the law, and in others we can get slammed twice as hard as you civilians.

Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"


Tikamember
106 posts
Location: BC, Canada


Posted:
quote:
Well... if you wanna play that card, why do you care if the US Gov wants to find and bring to justice those who conspired and killed 3000 people? Especially when it was no accident!

Because it was not only Americans that died in 9/11 (I'm assuming that the 3000 you refer to). Secondly noone questioned the US taking a stand against Al-Queda. The US had full support of the UN when entering Afghanistan. Have you brought justice to anyone by invading Iraq? Last time I checked there was no connection between Iraq and 9/11. The US terrorist alert has not gone down since these two wars. Iraqis are still killing US soldiers but this is going out of the intial topic.
quote:
If someone wants to come up with all the facts about these FF incidents that the doc. talked about feel free... I would like to see them.

A debate works better when both people are educated on the topic. If you are joining the discussion isn't your responsibility to get the facts.

quote:
What it says on the bottle is irrelivent, why? Because that involves use for the general public, last time I checked the military was not the general public.
So military people aren't human? Do drugs not effect them like it would any other human being? You

Raymund Phule (Fireproof)Enter a "Title" here:
2,905 posts
Location: San Diego California


Posted:
Umm... yes we are! Its illeagle for a civilian to own a tank, yet there are how many in the US Army and Marine Corps?

I could go on and on about how laws dont apply to the military.


Who said it was okay? I was just trying to see if there was a possible reason that an accident could happen!


I do wonder if you have ever been shot at? Can you understand what is going on over there? I doubt it.


quote:
first you say there are no pills
Where did I say this?

quote:

If it's so easy to make those mistakes why doesn't the british army or any other do it all the time mister?

Happens all the time? Okay whatever... how can I not call you a moron?

I think you need to stop taking drugs, cause your mind is all fu(ked up!


quote:
Because it was not only Americans that died in 9/11 (I'm assuming that the 3000 you refer to). Secondly noone questioned the US taking a stand against Al-Queda. The US had full support of the UN when entering Afghanistan. Have you brought justice to anyone by invading Iraq? Last time I checked there was no connection between Iraq and 9/11. The US terrorist alert has not gone down since these two wars. Iraqis are still killing US soldiers but this is going out of the intial topic
BS Tika!! Do a search for the "Anti War" topic, thats 18 pages of people bitching about the US action against Al Queda!!

quote:
So military people aren't human? Do drugs not effect them like it would any other human being? You
Yes, I am a Marine, I am invincible, invulnrable and all around superman!

Okay, use for civilians is not the same as use for the military.

quote:
A debate works better when both people are educated on the topic. If you are joining the discussion isn't your responsibility to get the facts
Well when things dont air on TV I cant watch them now can I? So how can I watch the Doc.???

Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"


Raymund Phule (Fireproof)Enter a "Title" here:
2,905 posts
Location: San Diego California


Posted:
More info:


I just talked to our squadren's Flight Surgen... okay somethings to understand, 1 he cant vouch for US Air Force or US Army as he is a Navy Surgen and cant garunte any information about those two branches. He says that the program is probably the same.

2. In the Navy/Marine Corps, any medication that pilot takes, with the exception of over the counter tylonal and multivitamins, MUST be prescribed by a doctor or Corpsman. This is because some medication can cause problems during flight. IE The pilot pulls a G' and blows a sinus, or cause the pilot to black out. They cant even take cough medicine

The pill that N/MC pilots can take, can only be taken if the pilot agrees, the Commanding Officer approves, the MAG CO approves, and the Wing CO approves. This isnt something that is handed out like candy, as some of you have been lead to believe. Second, this is not dexedrin, it is a variant.

This variant has been used since the Korean Conflict, it was nicknamed "Migpill" pilots thought it gave them an edge. In all reality it made them more aware. Now days the pill is only used A. During combat (never training) B. prior to tanking, after an 8 hour flight refueling while exausted is the #1 most dangerus thing a pilot can do. From the time a mishap accures to destruction of the aircraft can be less than a second! The pill is used to give the pilot an added alertness.

Pilots in the Navy and the Marine Corps are not forced nor are the forced to sign any documents saying that they have to take this variant. There is not a single Pilot that I have talked to that has taken this variant.

I am thinking about asking the CO, but you dont just walk up to "The Man" and start firing questions at him


I did not see the Doc. did it mention any of the above facts?

Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"


Raymund Phule (Fireproof)Enter a "Title" here:
2,905 posts
Location: San Diego California


Posted:
Even more info


Okay, I have spoken to one of our pilots who has been in combat during the "Gulf War #2".

In order to use the dexedrin variant, you must first pass a static test. IE you must take the pill on the ground, this is so that you can be monitord for any reaction. You must pass this before you are allowed to take it in the air.

He has also confirmed what I have previusly said about all the destrations one faces in a combat situation.

Say AWAKs (the big plane with the big radar dish on top) says "Target 2a at blah blah is no joy" Meaning you cant drop on that target, it doesnt mean that the Pilot heard.

When you have AA, SAMs and other things going on the ability to mentaly track everything is greatly reduced. Just because something was said and went strait into a flight recorder, doesnt mean that the pilot physically heard it. This effect is called the Fog of War. It is a part of combat that you are taught to expect and they try to prepare you for it, but there is no class out there that can compair to the real world situations.


No documentery can reproduce the events as they happend. Sure they can reply a tape over and over but that doesnt compair with what actually happens.

He also told me that the fact most to blame for FF incidents is not the pill but fatigue, something the pill is proven to overcome.

Operations during combat are 24-7, he told me of only getting 4 hours of sleep between flights and also how he has never taken the pill during a hop.

Your body gets used to a sleep cycle, but when that changes, then that is when things can get tough.

Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"


Raymund Phule (Fireproof)Enter a "Title" here:
2,905 posts
Location: San Diego California


Posted:
Hmm... I see that you cant argue with the people in the know. hehehehe *adds yet another point to his scoreboard*

Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"


StoneGOLD Member
Stream Entrant
2,829 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia


Posted:
Ray, are U serious???
quote:
Hmm... I see that you cant argue with the people in the know. hehehehe *adds yet another point to his scoreboard*
Are u sure u have awarded to point to the winning side, Ray??? I think you have proved the case that the US government sanctions the use of amphetamines by the US Air Force, and confirms the fact that US pilots are issued with dex amphetamine.

static test. It’s gotta be different in a battle situation. In the doco they interviewed 5 or 6 pilots and ex pilots, and they told a different story; a dark story about loosing control when their system was full of dex and then overloaded with natural adrenalin that the body produces in response to a battle situation. Watch it when u get a chance.

Personally, I think many of the recent ff incidents and stuff up’s are caused by inappropriate training, poor leader ship, poor tactics and the arrogance of underestimation the enemy; just like in Vietnam. I am also surprised by how flippantly you treat these incidents. I would have thought that an important objective of any military force would be to minimise this situations, but the US militarie's attitude and complacency in this regard is worrying. It is not a joke.

The other side to this discussion is the double standard on drugs. So it’s ok for pilots to be off their head on amphetamines, and shoot whatever they feel like, and this is obviously sanctions by the US government. But, hey the US government is so paranoid of amphetamines it introduce or intends to introduce draconian legislation (meth/rave bill) where even the humble “glowstick” is considered drug paraphernalia. Now, what type of example is the US Goverment setting for if kids if it allows US pilots, like in Top Gun, to use drugs.

If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh


AdeSILVER Member
Are we there yet?
1,897 posts
Location: australia


Posted:




Stone, speaking of interesting docos - have you been watching the one on the history of terrorism? It has been fascinating - especially as a few early 20th century, termed, at the time, terrorists, went on to be leaders of their countries?

very interesting indeed

part three next week - wednesday ABC at 8.30 (I think)

ade


Raymund Phule (Fireproof)Enter a "Title" here:
2,905 posts
Location: San Diego California


Posted:
Bout time you popped in here, damn I gotta say something stupid to get people to respond.

Yes it is used, I have never denied it.


Yep a static test is differnt, when you think about it though, adreniline would be pretty friggin high in combat with or without the variant. However, as I am sure that the Doc was onesided, being BBC, they only told of the FEW cases where there was a problem. I wonder if they showed you a comparison between how many people used the dexedrin variant and didnt have any problems vs those who used and did.


quote:
Personally, I think many of the recent ff incidents and stuff up’s are caused by inappropriate training, poor leader ship, poor tactics and the arrogance of underestimation the enemy; just like in Vietnam. I am also surprised by how flippantly you treat these incidents. I would have thought that an important objective of any military force would be to minimise this situations, but the US militarie's attitude and complacency in this regard is worrying. It is not a joke.
Stop! now your just being sencless, who said anything about this being a joke? Did you do research to see how much time is put into mishap investigations, do you know how many hours are spent on safty, hell just yesterday I spent the afternoon in a Safty Brief, 4 solid hours of seeing what happens when you screw up, and how it could have been avoided. Have you ever seen someones head chopped in half by a helo prop?

Trust me the US Miltary takes mishaps and incidents very very friggen serius.

However we also know, that there is never just one thing that causes an incident. Experiance is often the best teacher with the hardest lessons.


Where did you see in Top Gun them using drugs? Drinking heavily, yes. But illeagle drugs?? Please...

They dont shoot whatever they want, did you not read what I wrote. They cant even take cough medicin without a perscription. Sorry no it isnt considerd that type of drug. Did you read anything that I wrote? Out of all the officers that I spoke to, only 1 ONE, said that he had taken the pill.


Ade is right, the Brittish labled George Washington as a terrorist, then again it would be easier to call what the Brittish did terrorisim than what the Colonists did.

hehe that sounds like a good un, I wish I could watch it

Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"


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