Forums > Social Discussion > Proud to be?
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HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Posted:
So when I was growing up, there was a lot of talk about being "Proud to Be an American."
I'm not. In fact, I'm ashamed to be an American. I'm ashamed of my country and I'm terrified of my government. I'm not proud of who we are, what we've done, or what we stand for. When I was in England, I kept wanting to apologize. I wanted to wear a button that said "It's not my fault!" And I know a number of Americans feel that way now.
So I wonder? Are you proud of your country? I mean, no country is perfect, and bad leaders come and go (Howard? Blair?), but in general, as a citizen of your country visiting a foreign land, do you feel proud to be an emmissary of your country, or do you feel like hanging your head in shame?
So when I was growing up, there was a lot of talk about being "Proud to Be an American."
I'm not. In fact, I'm ashamed to be an American. I'm ashamed of my country and I'm terrified of my government. I'm not proud of who we are, what we've done, or what we stand for. When I was in England, I kept wanting to apologize. I wanted to wear a button that said "It's not my fault!" And I know a number of Americans feel that way now.
So I wonder? Are you proud of your country? I mean, no country is perfect, and bad leaders come and go (Howard? Blair?), but in general, as a citizen of your country visiting a foreign land, do you feel proud to be an emmissary of your country, or do you feel like hanging your head in shame?
-Mike
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella
A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura
BRONZE Member
member
45 posts
Location: manchester, United Kingdom
member
45 posts
Location: manchester, United Kingdom
Posted:
i am proud to be me, and the fact i am involved in circus and that the horses i train are happy, and that old circus traditions are being kept alive. I am proud of my family and freinds, i am not particlary proud of my country cos it has ridciuals health and saftey laws amonsgt other things!
i am proud to be me, and the fact i am involved in circus and that the horses i train are happy, and that old circus traditions are being kept alive. I am proud of my family and freinds, i am not particlary proud of my country cos it has ridciuals health and saftey laws amonsgt other things!
*******all the children are insane*******
Flying high!
245 posts
Location: At the beach.
245 posts
Location: At the beach.
Posted:
I never used to be proud of my country, but after spending a year away it has made me realise how lucky we are. I am more than prepaired to fly my flag now, it's just a pitty everyone associates it with football.
There are still things that p1ss me off, but hey, not really being into politics I'll just have to put up with it, plus there seems no point in voting as you can't belive what politicians say anyway.
I never used to be proud of my country, but after spending a year away it has made me realise how lucky we are. I am more than prepaired to fly my flag now, it's just a pitty everyone associates it with football.
There are still things that p1ss me off, but hey, not really being into politics I'll just have to put up with it, plus there seems no point in voting as you can't belive what politicians say anyway.
If everything seems under control, your not going fast enough!
It's not the size of the wave, it's the length of the ride!
Fireotographer on Hiatus
284 posts
Location: Cork, Ireland
284 posts
Location: Cork, Ireland
Posted:
I am German and don't have any feelings about it really. Well I can say that I am not proud to be German though I am not really ashamed of it either. It's just that since childhood (at least in my part of the country) you were taught that it can be "dangerous" to be too patriotic because of all the [censored] that was initiated by this small little guy with moustache.... (and he wasn't even German!!). So we just sing our anthem at soccer games and are proud of our reliable cars (well... it's not that bad...)
Being in Ireland now and meeting people from different parts of the world shows me that actually every country somehow has "skeletons in the closet" (btw in German they are in the basement...
) but in the end of the day it's not the problem of our generation any longer. With young people traveling and studying or working abroad all our different mentalities, ideas and histories get mixed in a wonderful way and helps bringing the different countries closer together. I think it is important just to be proud of yourself - being proud of what you are and what you do. Your actions define you as a person - our nationality is basically just dependant on where our parents (or ancestors) decided to live. Did that now get off topic? *shewonders*
I am German and don't have any feelings about it really. Well I can say that I am not proud to be German though I am not really ashamed of it either. It's just that since childhood (at least in my part of the country) you were taught that it can be "dangerous" to be too patriotic because of all the [censored] that was initiated by this small little guy with moustache.... (and he wasn't even German!!). So we just sing our anthem at soccer games and are proud of our reliable cars (well... it's not that bad...)
Being in Ireland now and meeting people from different parts of the world shows me that actually every country somehow has "skeletons in the closet" (btw in German they are in the basement...
) but in the end of the day it's not the problem of our generation any longer. With young people traveling and studying or working abroad all our different mentalities, ideas and histories get mixed in a wonderful way and helps bringing the different countries closer together. I think it is important just to be proud of yourself - being proud of what you are and what you do. Your actions define you as a person - our nationality is basically just dependant on where our parents (or ancestors) decided to live. Did that now get off topic? *shewonders* "I see," said the blind man.
member
4 posts
Location: Birmingham England
4 posts
Location: Birmingham England
Posted:
The only time i've ever felt anything positive from seeing a St george's cross is when the Georgians had their "own" peacefull revolution. And there was pictures on the the news of thousands of people dancing and cheering and waving these flags (which coincidently is the same as the English flag) in the street cos they had overthrown their president without any bloodshed. Watched the same clip for hours.
Didn't give a monkeys bout the rugby which England won a few days before.
Sharing the same beliefs and values is more important than the fake social glue of nationalism, as demonstrated by this forum.
By the way Kiteman you might want to start voting again. BNP got 800,000 votes at last euro election.
The only time i've ever felt anything positive from seeing a St george's cross is when the Georgians had their "own" peacefull revolution. And there was pictures on the the news of thousands of people dancing and cheering and waving these flags (which coincidently is the same as the English flag) in the street cos they had overthrown their president without any bloodshed. Watched the same clip for hours.
Didn't give a monkeys bout the rugby which England won a few days before.
Sharing the same beliefs and values is more important than the fake social glue of nationalism, as demonstrated by this forum.
By the way Kiteman you might want to start voting again. BNP got 800,000 votes at last euro election.
BRONZE Member
The GF of HoP
492 posts
Location: Somerset, England
The GF of HoP
492 posts
Location: Somerset, England
Posted:
You tell em diabolomonkey
You tell em diabolomonkey
fire leads to creation
SILVER Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,899 posts
Location: Austin, Texas, USA
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,899 posts
Location: Austin, Texas, USA
Posted:
good answer Fraulein, and not so far from what I might say.
Personally, I'm over being embarrassed about being American.
I used to make it a point to say I was from Texas instead of America - I have a lot more identity with the southwest than America as a whole anyway. It also took initial conversations with poeple from other countries in completely different directions (i.e., I didn't have to speand the rest of the night talking about politics). But then George W. came along and now if I say I'm from Texas people say "Bush is from Texas isn't he?"
And just for the record - that poser was born in Maine, not Texas. And no self respecting Texan would go Yale either!
good answer Fraulein, and not so far from what I might say.
Personally, I'm over being embarrassed about being American.
I used to make it a point to say I was from Texas instead of America - I have a lot more identity with the southwest than America as a whole anyway. It also took initial conversations with poeple from other countries in completely different directions (i.e., I didn't have to speand the rest of the night talking about politics). But then George W. came along and now if I say I'm from Texas people say "Bush is from Texas isn't he?"
And just for the record - that poser was born in Maine, not Texas. And no self respecting Texan would go Yale either!
-v-
Wiederstand ist Zwecklos!
SILVER Member
UnNatural Scientist - Currently working on a Breville-legged monkey
757 posts
Location: Bath Uni or Shrewsbury, UK
UnNatural Scientist - Currently working on a Breville-legged monkey
757 posts
Location: Bath Uni or Shrewsbury, UK
Posted:
"Are you proud to be American?"
"Well, my parents f**ked there, that's about it"
--- Bill Hick (mayherestinpeace)
I feel about the same way, I don't feel poud or ashamed to be British - this just happens to be where I call home. However I LIKE living here, it's relatively safe and comfortable (Sudan, Zimbabwe...) the weather can be pleasent and the hills are nice to look at.
"Are you proud to be American?"
"Well, my parents f**ked there, that's about it"
--- Bill Hick (mayherestinpeace)
I feel about the same way, I don't feel poud or ashamed to be British - this just happens to be where I call home. However I LIKE living here, it's relatively safe and comfortable (Sudan, Zimbabwe...) the weather can be pleasent and the hills are nice to look at.
Give me a lever long enough and a place to stand and I can beat the world into submission.
GOLD Member
member
169 posts
Location: Paris, France, the armpit of europe
member
169 posts
Location: Paris, France, the armpit of europe
Posted:
ya know, patriotism and pride (yes its a sin, whatever anyone says) have long been a concern of mine, that being: why should this kind of bullcrap concern me?
i mean i'm a cultural schizo, if not a cultural orphan. french/british and born in geneva (does that make me swiss?) and actually never lived in britain much, but mom raised me more than dad and she's british so i got stuck with mostly white collar brit values with a manic depressive twist. dads blue collar frenchness got to me too, sometimes conflicted, sometimes complemented. and to add to the confusion i lived in the third world most of the time, where my values and culture were watered down to become some sort of unidentifiable mishmash.
so, honest to god, i am ashamed of being human, british, french, citizen of the world, because even the nice ones are, deep down inside, doing "good" for themselves, at least i think so. i think humanity is a perversion of life itself. like an evolutionary experiment gone so awfully wrong.
i have seen misery, so i have a point of comparison and should, in theory, be grateful to my mother/fatherland for having given me the opportunities that others didnt have, but to be truthful im not. i mean, am i happier because im educated, because i'm well fed and have armani exchange pants? not really, its all relative in the end, i've smoked up with slumdwellers in bangladesh who were happier than me, despite their sordid living conditions, because in the end, it all depends on perspective. live it easy, and easy seems hard, live it hard and hard will seem easy.
in the end, im proud of being the person that i am, because i dont have anything else to be proud of, and without that i wouldn't be just a misanthrope, i'd be one with self esteem issues.
ya know, patriotism and pride (yes its a sin, whatever anyone says) have long been a concern of mine, that being: why should this kind of bullcrap concern me?
i mean i'm a cultural schizo, if not a cultural orphan. french/british and born in geneva (does that make me swiss?) and actually never lived in britain much, but mom raised me more than dad and she's british so i got stuck with mostly white collar brit values with a manic depressive twist. dads blue collar frenchness got to me too, sometimes conflicted, sometimes complemented. and to add to the confusion i lived in the third world most of the time, where my values and culture were watered down to become some sort of unidentifiable mishmash.
so, honest to god, i am ashamed of being human, british, french, citizen of the world, because even the nice ones are, deep down inside, doing "good" for themselves, at least i think so. i think humanity is a perversion of life itself. like an evolutionary experiment gone so awfully wrong.
i have seen misery, so i have a point of comparison and should, in theory, be grateful to my mother/fatherland for having given me the opportunities that others didnt have, but to be truthful im not. i mean, am i happier because im educated, because i'm well fed and have armani exchange pants? not really, its all relative in the end, i've smoked up with slumdwellers in bangladesh who were happier than me, despite their sordid living conditions, because in the end, it all depends on perspective. live it easy, and easy seems hard, live it hard and hard will seem easy.
in the end, im proud of being the person that i am, because i dont have anything else to be proud of, and without that i wouldn't be just a misanthrope, i'd be one with self esteem issues.
-Believing that all has been said and done is like mistaking the horizon for the limits of the world. Voltaire.
-Plus je connais hommes, plus j'aime mon chien. Pascal.
resident bagpiper
342 posts
Location: Vermont, USA
342 posts
Location: Vermont, USA
Posted:
I want to respond to micheal moore, who claims there is no terrorist threat to america... we would have said that before 9/11... whenever there is a large group of people who's moral beliefs go against those of another, one or the other is in danger... when one starts perparing to attack the other, or violates treaties set forth between them, the other has the obligation to its people to make a pre-emptive strike... FACT Iraq's gov't admitted to having al samoud 2 missles (banned after gulf war) buring the search for weapons... they claimed to have turned them all over for destruction... in the first 2 days of the war 2 al-samoud 2 missles were fired at us and british troops...THATS ENOUGH OF A REASON FOR ME... the gulf war and the iraq war are the same, if sadam didn't honor the treaties ending the first, he gets the second... SIMPLE LAW OF NEGOTIATIONS, NEVER GO BACK ON YOUR WORD... if you say "we will only end the gulf war when all these weapons are destroyed", and they aren't, a good leader must go back.
I want to respond to micheal moore, who claims there is no terrorist threat to america... we would have said that before 9/11... whenever there is a large group of people who's moral beliefs go against those of another, one or the other is in danger... when one starts perparing to attack the other, or violates treaties set forth between them, the other has the obligation to its people to make a pre-emptive strike... FACT Iraq's gov't admitted to having al samoud 2 missles (banned after gulf war) buring the search for weapons... they claimed to have turned them all over for destruction... in the first 2 days of the war 2 al-samoud 2 missles were fired at us and british troops...THATS ENOUGH OF A REASON FOR ME... the gulf war and the iraq war are the same, if sadam didn't honor the treaties ending the first, he gets the second... SIMPLE LAW OF NEGOTIATIONS, NEVER GO BACK ON YOUR WORD... if you say "we will only end the gulf war when all these weapons are destroyed", and they aren't, a good leader must go back.
Q:What's the difference between the Great Highland Bagpipes and the Northumbrian Pipes?
A:The Great Highland Pipes burn longer.
Fireotographer on Hiatus
284 posts
Location: Cork, Ireland
284 posts
Location: Cork, Ireland
Posted:
Thanks Vanice. I really waited for a reaction to my post. But then: Isn't it sad that we all have to explain ourselves? Especially in such a friendly community like this one?? (even though politics seem to be more important here than I thought they would - and should - be...) Although I think it is interesting that so many people agree that nationality isn't that important any longer than it was. It kinda makes me hope that in future we can manage to get things sorted...
Am I too naive? I think so...
Written by: vanize
good answer Fraulein, and not so far from what I might say.
Personally, I'm over being embarrassed about being American.
Thanks Vanice. I really waited for a reaction to my post. But then: Isn't it sad that we all have to explain ourselves? Especially in such a friendly community like this one?? (even though politics seem to be more important here than I thought they would - and should - be...) Although I think it is interesting that so many people agree that nationality isn't that important any longer than it was. It kinda makes me hope that in future we can manage to get things sorted...
Am I too naive? I think so...
"I see," said the blind man.
newbie
22 posts
Location: Austin, TX
22 posts
Location: Austin, TX
Posted:
Thank you.
If after everything I’m about to say, you only get one thing out of it, I want it to be that. A simple Thank you.
I’m kinda sick of people sitting on their couch at home, watching CNN, hearing an anchorman in NY or LA describe a violent attack by American forces that left 5 Iraqis dead…and getting upset at our soldiers. These are many times the same people that claim to hate the media and use the phrase “don’t trust everything you see/read on TV/ newspapers/ online/”
I'm kinda sick of hearing about how heartless Americans are.
I'm really sick of seeing family after family get torn apart so that somebody’s mommy or daddy can go over seas and fight for a country that doesn’t even support them.
I'm really sick of seeing that same sons face when he finds out that daddy wont be coming home.
I'm really sick of reading local newspapers and seeing more and more of my friends and people I knew show up under a section that now shows a list of names on such a regular basis, there is a section all on its own dedicated to our fallen soldiers.
I'm really sick of walking into our casualty office and hearing about how Iraqi militants have used a child to carry a hand grenade and walk in front of a lead vehicle in an American convoy. Then hearing hours later hear CNN report about “an American attack in Baghdad that left two soldiers dead and an unknown amount of civilians injured.”
I'm really sick of getting late night phone calls because a friend on two weeks leave, after finding out that all the support and love he thought he was getting back home was never even there, fell into a deep depression and is in the hospital after he made an attempt to take his own life.
I cannot begin to describe how sick I am of waking up at zero-dark-thirty every morning and putting on this uniform, prepared to fight for a cause I don’t even believe in. I'm sick of putting my life on hold, waiting to start a family or make any major purchases because, although my number has yet to be called, I know the day is coming. . But I do it everyday, and will continue to do so until I have served my time. Because I am a soldier. I will fight for this country that I love. It is because of my choice to fight that there is no one putting a gun to your head making you join. Regardless of how sick of hearing it you are, it is because of those people that chose to leave their entire lives behind that you have the right to be where you are right now. To use the freedoms that we protect. To openly say what’s on your mind.
So thank you.
For if this many had died for a freedom that nobody even used, then their death would be a total loss. Because you exercise your right to voice your opinion it gives us a purpose. When all else is lost we can at the very least know that because of the sacrifices we made, you will live a free person. Although I cannot speak for the entire armed forces, I do apologize. I apologize if statements some of us make while your at home, dwelling in how awful humanity has become irritate you in anyway. You’ll have to forgive us, some of us are living our own personal hells as well and we tend to vent occasionally.
So once again, thank you. I hope you sleep well tonight under the protection of the people that so selfishly make comments that annoy you so much.
Written by: poiaholic22Written by:
"All those protesters back home are the reason I am here. It is my job to protect their right to tell me that my job is wrong."
*In a cool,calm tone*
I can not begin to describe how sick I am of hearing service people say that.
Thank you.
If after everything I’m about to say, you only get one thing out of it, I want it to be that. A simple Thank you.
I’m kinda sick of people sitting on their couch at home, watching CNN, hearing an anchorman in NY or LA describe a violent attack by American forces that left 5 Iraqis dead…and getting upset at our soldiers. These are many times the same people that claim to hate the media and use the phrase “don’t trust everything you see/read on TV/ newspapers/ online/
I'm kinda sick of hearing about how heartless Americans are.
I'm really sick of seeing family after family get torn apart so that somebody’s mommy or daddy can go over seas and fight for a country that doesn’t even support them.
I'm really sick of seeing that same sons face when he finds out that daddy wont be coming home.
I'm really sick of reading local newspapers and seeing more and more of my friends and people I knew show up under a section that now shows a list of names on such a regular basis, there is a section all on its own dedicated to our fallen soldiers.
I'm really sick of walking into our casualty office and hearing about how Iraqi militants have used a child to carry a hand grenade and walk in front of a lead vehicle in an American convoy. Then hearing hours later hear CNN report about “an American attack in Baghdad that left two soldiers dead and an unknown amount of civilians injured.”
I'm really sick of getting late night phone calls because a friend on two weeks leave, after finding out that all the support and love he thought he was getting back home was never even there, fell into a deep depression and is in the hospital after he made an attempt to take his own life.
I cannot begin to describe how sick I am of waking up at zero-dark-thirty every morning and putting on this uniform, prepared to fight for a cause I don’t even believe in. I'm sick of putting my life on hold, waiting to start a family or make any major purchases because, although my number has yet to be called, I know the day is coming. . But I do it everyday, and will continue to do so until I have served my time. Because I am a soldier. I will fight for this country that I love. It is because of my choice to fight that there is no one putting a gun to your head making you join. Regardless of how sick of hearing it you are, it is because of those people that chose to leave their entire lives behind that you have the right to be where you are right now. To use the freedoms that we protect. To openly say what’s on your mind.
So thank you.
For if this many had died for a freedom that nobody even used, then their death would be a total loss. Because you exercise your right to voice your opinion it gives us a purpose. When all else is lost we can at the very least know that because of the sacrifices we made, you will live a free person. Although I cannot speak for the entire armed forces, I do apologize. I apologize if statements some of us make while your at home, dwelling in how awful humanity has become irritate you in anyway. You’ll have to forgive us, some of us are living our own personal hells as well and we tend to vent occasionally.
So once again, thank you. I hope you sleep well tonight under the protection of the people that so selfishly make comments that annoy you so much.
veteran
1,325 posts
Location: San Diego, California, USA
1,325 posts
Location: San Diego, California, USA
Posted:
Wow _od. Can I print that out? I have been thinking the same thing.
Wow _od. Can I print that out? I have been thinking the same thing.
BRONZE Member
Still wiggling
5,967 posts
Location: Belfast, Northern Ireland (UK)
Still wiggling
5,967 posts
Location: Belfast, Northern Ireland (UK)
Posted:
Perhaps I'm wrong, but I don't think any comments are directed at individual soldiers, but the US armed services in general.
If soldiers are our guardian angels, as you claim, why are so many innocent, unarmed people dying?
Why have US forces accidentally killed so many US and British troops?
Why, when I watch independent documentaries following soldiers in Iraq do we see so many disorganised, terrified, more-or-less clueless young men and women who don't know what they are doing and more often than not are unable to even communicate with the Iraqi police force they are supposed to be working with.
Why do we hear these soldiers display a total lack of knowledge, verging on racism, about the Muslim people?
Why have Iraqi people, some of whom initally welcomed the overthrow of Saddam Hussein, now turned so violently on the Americans (surely you don't think it's just because they are all 'terrorists')?
Why do these soldiers know so little about the country they are invading that they would make a comment, even in jest, like 'the US has never bombed a country with a McDonalds. Y'know, if there was a strip of McDonalds, Burger King and Pizza Hut right down that street there, these people would be happy and there would be no war'.
Public anger is not directed towards individual soldiers but to the huge and significant mistakes made by the armed forces regarding this invasion.
If you are sick of it, think about it from the point of someone who believes the war futile.
And I am sorry, but you have only yourself to answer to.
Perhaps I'm wrong, but I don't think any comments are directed at individual soldiers, but the US armed services in general.
If soldiers are our guardian angels, as you claim, why are so many innocent, unarmed people dying?
Why have US forces accidentally killed so many US and British troops?
Why, when I watch independent documentaries following soldiers in Iraq do we see so many disorganised, terrified, more-or-less clueless young men and women who don't know what they are doing and more often than not are unable to even communicate with the Iraqi police force they are supposed to be working with.
Why do we hear these soldiers display a total lack of knowledge, verging on racism, about the Muslim people?
Why have Iraqi people, some of whom initally welcomed the overthrow of Saddam Hussein, now turned so violently on the Americans (surely you don't think it's just because they are all 'terrorists')?
Why do these soldiers know so little about the country they are invading that they would make a comment, even in jest, like 'the US has never bombed a country with a McDonalds. Y'know, if there was a strip of McDonalds, Burger King and Pizza Hut right down that street there, these people would be happy and there would be no war'.
Public anger is not directed towards individual soldiers but to the huge and significant mistakes made by the armed forces regarding this invasion.
If you are sick of it, think about it from the point of someone who believes the war futile.
And I am sorry, but you have only yourself to answer to.
Getting to the other side 
BRONZE Member
Senator by day, Sith Lord by night.
128 posts
Location: Suffolk, New York, USA
Senator by day, Sith Lord by night.
128 posts
Location: Suffolk, New York, USA
Posted:
Briefly:
I am proud to be an American.
I am proud of the ideals that my country was built upon.
I am proud of the people that risk life and limb for it, on its shores and off.
Unfortunately I really dont think that the place that I live is "America" anymore.
I am not proud of the Terry Gilliam's Brazil-esque beurocracy that calls itself my government.
I am not proud of a war on terror that makes no attempt at alleviating the terrors within its own land of starvation, sickness, and crushing poverty.
I am not proud of the republocrats that make the very life of my country into a bargaining chip for their own power games.
I am not proud of the growing parallels to many facist regimes.
I am not proud of most Americans as I think the vast majority of humanity as a whole to be utterly useless.
But other then some tropical private island where I can have my own compound with my own laws and muscular serving men plying me with tropical girly drinks all day, I cant think of anywhere I'd rather be.
Briefly:
I am proud to be an American.
I am proud of the ideals that my country was built upon.
I am proud of the people that risk life and limb for it, on its shores and off.
Unfortunately I really dont think that the place that I live is "America" anymore.
I am not proud of the Terry Gilliam's Brazil-esque beurocracy that calls itself my government.
I am not proud of a war on terror that makes no attempt at alleviating the terrors within its own land of starvation, sickness, and crushing poverty.
I am not proud of the republocrats that make the very life of my country into a bargaining chip for their own power games.
I am not proud of the growing parallels to many facist regimes.
I am not proud of most Americans as I think the vast majority of humanity as a whole to be utterly useless.
But other then some tropical private island where I can have my own compound with my own laws and muscular serving men plying me with tropical girly drinks all day, I cant think of anywhere I'd rather be.
"If the human brain were simple enough for us to understand, we would be too simple to understand it"
-Emerson M Pugh
SILVER Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,899 posts
Location: Austin, Texas, USA
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,899 posts
Location: Austin, Texas, USA
Posted:
"dude, where's my country?!?"
I agree SterlingSpider - there is a widening gap between what America is supposed to be - the America we were sold as children, and the America that the US government is trying to create for the increasing benifit of a very few.
"dude, where's my country?!?"
I agree SterlingSpider - there is a widening gap between what America is supposed to be - the America we were sold as children, and the America that the US government is trying to create for the increasing benifit of a very few.
-v-
Wiederstand ist Zwecklos!
newbie
11 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
11 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posted:
I don't understand the whole concept of patriotism actually.. It's such an outright attempt to manipulate your emotions so that you'll be willing to give power to a bunch of people (government) to treat you like crap (police, welfare).
I love the land, the culture and the people of where I'm from.. But then.. I love the land, the culture and the people of the world, not just my country. And no culture is better than any other.. you're just more familiar and more comfortable with your own.
Although I have to say, there have been plenty of times when I have been so ashamed of what's been said and done eg:
when Howard refused to say Sorry to the indigienous people of this country for years of genocide, when he said he would be 'bitterly disappointed' if one of his own children turned out the be gay, when he started locking up refugees in cages in the middle of the desert and his sidekick said that they were purposely creating 2 classes of citizens...
On a lighte tone.. I now wear badge that says "I'M PERVERTED AND I VOTE'
ha
:D:D:D
I don't understand the whole concept of patriotism actually.. It's such an outright attempt to manipulate your emotions so that you'll be willing to give power to a bunch of people (government) to treat you like crap (police, welfare).
I love the land, the culture and the people of where I'm from.. But then.. I love the land, the culture and the people of the world, not just my country. And no culture is better than any other.. you're just more familiar and more comfortable with your own.
Although I have to say, there have been plenty of times when I have been so ashamed of what's been said and done eg:
when Howard refused to say Sorry to the indigienous people of this country for years of genocide, when he said he would be 'bitterly disappointed' if one of his own children turned out the be gay, when he started locking up refugees in cages in the middle of the desert and his sidekick said that they were purposely creating 2 classes of citizens...
On a lighte tone.. I now wear badge that says "I'M PERVERTED AND I VOTE'
ha
:D:D:D i'm a good kisser, but you're a fast learner...
GOLD Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,252 posts
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,252 posts
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom
Posted:
I think that maybe the reason poiaholic22 is sick of hearing people say that-
"All those protesters back home are the reason I am here. It is my job to protect their right to tell me that my job is wrong."
is because it implies that the war is somehow being fought to protect the anti-war protestors.
Which of course, in your eyes (as your post makes clear), it is.
However, as I'm sure you can understand, in the eyes of the war protestors that is not the case; they see it as being fought for totally different reasons.
You can imagine how annoying it would be for a rational, intelligent person who has put a lot of thought into why they believe the war to be wrong, to be constantly told that the war they are objecting to is actually being fought for their benefit.
Perhaps an interesting slant would be that war protestors can equally well maintain that the fact the so many soldiers and their families are going through hell in this war, is the very reason that they are protesting the war.
ie they are protesting to protect you.
------------
Concerning-
Again it can be argued that one reason no one is putting a gun to the heads of civilians to make them sign up is the fact the large numbers of the population in recent generations has made it abundantly clear, through mass protests, that they will absolutely not go to war, even if they are threatened with jail (or guns to heads).
I think that maybe the reason poiaholic22 is sick of hearing people say that-
"All those protesters back home are the reason I am here. It is my job to protect their right to tell me that my job is wrong."
is because it implies that the war is somehow being fought to protect the anti-war protestors.
Which of course, in your eyes (as your post makes clear), it is.
However, as I'm sure you can understand, in the eyes of the war protestors that is not the case; they see it as being fought for totally different reasons.
You can imagine how annoying it would be for a rational, intelligent person who has put a lot of thought into why they believe the war to be wrong, to be constantly told that the war they are objecting to is actually being fought for their benefit.
Perhaps an interesting slant would be that war protestors can equally well maintain that the fact the so many soldiers and their families are going through hell in this war, is the very reason that they are protesting the war.
ie they are protesting to protect you.
------------
Concerning-
Written by: _od
It is because of my choice to fight that there is no one putting a gun to your head making you join.
Again it can be argued that one reason no one is putting a gun to the heads of civilians to make them sign up is the fact the large numbers of the population in recent generations has made it abundantly clear, through mass protests, that they will absolutely not go to war, even if they are threatened with jail (or guns to heads).
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
GOLD Member
Stream Entrant
2,829 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Stream Entrant
2,829 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posted:
_od when you said:
Now I don’t blame the soldiers in any of this, they just do their job and follow orders. But unfortunately, Bush has misused the loyalty of his troops, for his own purposes, in an illegal and unjustified war.
I don’t mean to disillusion you, but you are NOT fighting for the freedom of the United States and the rest of the civilised world. So when you ask for a simple thank-you; I ask for what?
Being part of a vigilante lynch mob.
Invading another country and murdering innocent people.
Protecting Bush’s assets.
Appropriating other people’s assets and oil fields.
Increasing the risk of terrorism.
etcetcetcetc.
While I commend you loyalty, and apologise if I disillusion you, but America was never under threat. So, spare me all the B-grade Hollywood war movie crap like “I hope you sleep well tonight under the protection of the people that so selfishly make comments that annoy you so much.” Because you are part of an invading, attacking force, not one protecting their homeland.
_od when you said:
Written by:
after everything I’m about to say, you only get one thing out of it, I want it to be that. A simple Thank you
Now I don’t blame the soldiers in any of this, they just do their job and follow orders. But unfortunately, Bush has misused the loyalty of his troops, for his own purposes, in an illegal and unjustified war.
I don’t mean to disillusion you, but you are NOT fighting for the freedom of the United States and the rest of the civilised world. So when you ask for a simple thank-you; I ask for what?
Being part of a vigilante lynch mob.
Invading another country and murdering innocent people.
Protecting Bush’s assets.
Appropriating other people’s assets and oil fields.
Increasing the risk of terrorism.
etcetcetcetc.
While I commend you loyalty, and apologise if I disillusion you, but America was never under threat. So, spare me all the B-grade Hollywood war movie crap like “I hope you sleep well tonight under the protection of the people that so selfishly make comments that annoy you so much.” Because you are part of an invading, attacking force, not one protecting their homeland.
If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh
"if i jump in the fire, will you?"
633 posts
Location: USA, wishing I was in SA
633 posts
Location: USA, wishing I was in SA
Posted:
watch out , here comes an odd ball .
soooo im PROUD to be South African !!! im so proud for many things that my country has done . i like to focus on the possitive things that we as a struggling nation have done! ADMITTING that we were wrong , and then turning around from that and starting to walk in the right direction . yes i know that we're doing it at a slow pace , but hey , we're human , and we can only walk so fast!
here's where the oddness comes in ... im living in the USA ! a country that has done so much , gone so many places , its like ive gone from riding a snail to a thourough bread. Life is way different! however i have never complained about something being different(well except for the language, and the wrong side of the road, and well ok so i have complained, but just a little!). However i could never say that America has not been good to us (us = world) we could say that about just about every other country in the world !
im not going to start the next debate , but i did want to say a few words and have them read. when i started reading this thread , i did feel like i was reading a piece of the news! i say , lets be proud , let others see our country the way we want them to see it (wherever it may be) . where you are from , is a good place . it was started with good intentions , a dream in its purest form! believe it.
i know where im from , and im PROUD to be a South African and hopefully one day i will say that im proud be an American(i first have to figure out why they drive on the wrong side of the road?!)
"this post writen by a white male who grew up in an aparthied South Africa, walked home through a riot (unbeknow at the time)to see the light at the otherside. he now lives in America with his American wife not because he wants out of his country , because that is where Love has taken him. Love is what will take him back to South Africa"
watch out , here comes an odd ball .
soooo im PROUD to be South African !!! im so proud for many things that my country has done . i like to focus on the possitive things that we as a struggling nation have done! ADMITTING that we were wrong , and then turning around from that and starting to walk in the right direction . yes i know that we're doing it at a slow pace , but hey , we're human , and we can only walk so fast!
here's where the oddness comes in ... im living in the USA ! a country that has done so much , gone so many places , its like ive gone from riding a snail to a thourough bread. Life is way different! however i have never complained about something being different(well except for the language, and the wrong side of the road, and well ok so i have complained, but just a little!). However i could never say that America has not been good to us (us = world) we could say that about just about every other country in the world !
im not going to start the next debate , but i did want to say a few words and have them read. when i started reading this thread , i did feel like i was reading a piece of the news! i say , lets be proud , let others see our country the way we want them to see it (wherever it may be) . where you are from , is a good place . it was started with good intentions , a dream in its purest form! believe it.
i know where im from , and im PROUD to be a South African and hopefully one day i will say that im proud be an American(i first have to figure out why they drive on the wrong side of the road?!)
"this post writen by a white male who grew up in an aparthied South Africa, walked home through a riot (unbeknow at the time)to see the light at the otherside. he now lives in America with his American wife not because he wants out of his country , because that is where Love has taken him. Love is what will take him back to South Africa"
i like breaking the Law 
, of Gravity !
SILVER Member
Pooh-Bah
1,626 posts
Location: Southampton, United Kingdom
Pooh-Bah
1,626 posts
Location: Southampton, United Kingdom
Posted:
I'm proud to be alive. Looking both ways at EVERY crossing isn't easy.
I haven't got anything against americans because the sheer wieght of propaganda that's forced down most people's throats there is simply unbelievable. I just wish more of them could have contact with the rest of the world. Yeah, that's my criticism - the US is too insular, or if contact IS made it is sometimes a little condescending of other cultures as a result of how every day is a thousand messages of how great the US is. Which it's not. It's just a country.
I'm proud to be alive. Looking both ways at EVERY crossing isn't easy.
I haven't got anything against americans because the sheer wieght of propaganda that's forced down most people's throats there is simply unbelievable. I just wish more of them could have contact with the rest of the world. Yeah, that's my criticism - the US is too insular, or if contact IS made it is sometimes a little condescending of other cultures as a result of how every day is a thousand messages of how great the US is. Which it's not. It's just a country.
What a wonderful miracle if only we could look through each other's eyes for an instant.
Thoreau
BRONZE Member
Haven't you heard? I come in six-packs now.
134 posts
Location: Los Angeles, California, USA
Haven't you heard? I come in six-packs now.
134 posts
Location: Los Angeles, California, USA
Posted:
I've done a bit of thinking about this... I am neither proud nor ashamed to be an American. I am happy to live in a place where I am free to do things that many in other places are not, but it saddens me to think of how much less free I am than I used to think I was. It angers me to think of what America has come to represent to many in the world(corporate imperialism), but I am also aware of what America represents to many others(freedom and opportunity). It's not that America has become evil...it's that it has held itself in such high regard for so long, and now it's darker side has become more visible. I think a reality check was in order. Things can't get better 'till people know there's something wrong.
P.S. George W. Bush is a war criminal
P.P.S. I love cheesecake
EDITED_BY: Wonderlush (1096218877)
I've done a bit of thinking about this... I am neither proud nor ashamed to be an American. I am happy to live in a place where I am free to do things that many in other places are not, but it saddens me to think of how much less free I am than I used to think I was. It angers me to think of what America has come to represent to many in the world(corporate imperialism), but I am also aware of what America represents to many others(freedom and opportunity). It's not that America has become evil...it's that it has held itself in such high regard for so long, and now it's darker side has become more visible. I think a reality check was in order. Things can't get better 'till people know there's something wrong.
P.S. George W. Bush is a war criminal
P.P.S. I love cheesecake
EDITED_BY: Wonderlush (1096218877)
If you can talk you can sing / If you can walk you can dance
BRONZE Member
old hand
863 posts
Location: Berlin, Germany
old hand
863 posts
Location: Berlin, Germany
Posted:
I am german better east german (grew up in the GDR) hmmm.... proud not really but also not ashamed even then they taught you to be that in a way but I think it is a few generations ago now
but a little bit feeling guilty is still left because of that
there are some features in germans I really don't like but I think every nation has its "rednecks"
german cheesecake anyone?
EDITED_BY: babajaga (1096190415)
I am german better east german (grew up in the GDR) hmmm.... proud not really but also not ashamed even then they taught you to be that in a way but I think it is a few generations ago now
but a little bit feeling guilty is still left because of that
there are some features in germans I really don't like but I think every nation has its "rednecks"
german cheesecake anyone?
EDITED_BY: babajaga (1096190415)
What is psychology?- Looking for a black cat in a dark room. What is psychoanalysis? Psychoanalysis is looking for a black cat in a dark room -- in which there is no cat -- but finding one anyway.
newbie
16 posts
16 posts
Posted:
I hate it when people use such terms as "war criminal" not to mention "cheesecake" it really isn't a cake, just a crustless pie, that stands 3 inches tall!
What is a war criminal? How do you become a war criminal? Other than commiting war crimes, der! I mean what grane of rice tips the scale?
Does an unjustified war, in the eyes of some, make you a war crimminal?
If he is a war criminal, why hasn't the UN gone after him?
Just in case you couldn't tell I am American, and I am proud of it. I do support our troops, I feel Bush hasn't answered enough questions in his actions, but I also feel that the UN should have done something about Saddam years ago. I agree that it does and should raise eyebrows, that Bush Jr. is or was fighting the same man Sr. did.
I agree that something had to be done and I feel that the ends should justify his means.
I have done a fair share of traveling in my time and I have seen both the poor and rich of various countries, they are all the same, eastern phillosiphy, western phillosiphy, they are really all the same, rich get richer, poor get poorer. Why should anyone feel ashamed that they are from a country that is the exact same as every other country in the world? Feel free to be ashamed of how mankind treats eachother, strive to make your community and perhaps country and even world better, but do not feel ashamed over it. Sorry it just doesn't make sence to do so.
Sorry enough ranting, have a good day and make someone smile you will be supprised how much it changes your day, let alone theirs.
I hate it when people use such terms as "war criminal" not to mention "cheesecake" it really isn't a cake, just a crustless pie, that stands 3 inches tall!
What is a war criminal? How do you become a war criminal? Other than commiting war crimes, der! I mean what grane of rice tips the scale?
Does an unjustified war, in the eyes of some, make you a war crimminal?
If he is a war criminal, why hasn't the UN gone after him?
Just in case you couldn't tell I am American, and I am proud of it. I do support our troops, I feel Bush hasn't answered enough questions in his actions, but I also feel that the UN should have done something about Saddam years ago. I agree that it does and should raise eyebrows, that Bush Jr. is or was fighting the same man Sr. did.
I agree that something had to be done and I feel that the ends should justify his means.
I have done a fair share of traveling in my time and I have seen both the poor and rich of various countries, they are all the same, eastern phillosiphy, western phillosiphy, they are really all the same, rich get richer, poor get poorer. Why should anyone feel ashamed that they are from a country that is the exact same as every other country in the world? Feel free to be ashamed of how mankind treats eachother, strive to make your community and perhaps country and even world better, but do not feel ashamed over it. Sorry it just doesn't make sence to do so.
Sorry enough ranting,
have a good day and make someone smile you will be supprised how much it changes your day, let alone theirs. SILVER Member
Pasta of Muppets
2,722 posts
Location: in the interwebs..., United Kingdom
Pasta of Muppets
2,722 posts
Location: in the interwebs..., United Kingdom
Posted:
Despite of the way our country is going.
I am proud to be British.
I am proud that people in our country sometimes will just say "no more" and get on with things as they should be.
But I hate our people. We are turning into idiots. But somewhere someone will say "no more" to the politicians and we will have a real democratic government, not the apathetic bunch we are now
Nobody cares any more. Nobody cares.
Im going to go to bed now, and dream of Englands green and pleasant land.
PS our national anthem should be jerusalem.
Theres so much I want to say, but I feel like crying now...
Despite of the way our country is going.
I am proud to be British.
I am proud that people in our country sometimes will just say "no more" and get on with things as they should be.
But I hate our people. We are turning into idiots. But somewhere someone will say "no more" to the politicians and we will have a real democratic government, not the apathetic bunch we are now
Nobody cares any more. Nobody cares.
Im going to go to bed now, and dream of Englands green and pleasant land.
PS our national anthem should be jerusalem.
Theres so much I want to say, but I feel like crying now...
ohmygodlaserbeamspewpewpew!
GOLD Member
Stream Entrant
2,829 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Stream Entrant
2,829 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posted:
So I’m a convict, and proud of it.
But, insaineCRAZY, when you say “I agree that something had to be done and I feel that the ends should justify his means.”
What do you mean something had to be done and about what? And how do figure the end justifies the means when it hasn’t ended, but has only just begun.
I mean the world, as a result of the Bush Invasion, has become more unstable.
So I’m a convict, and proud of it.
But, insaineCRAZY, when you say “I agree that something had to be done and I feel that the ends should justify his means.”
What do you mean something had to be done and about what? And how do figure the end justifies the means when it hasn’t ended, but has only just begun.
I mean the world, as a result of the Bush Invasion, has become more unstable.
If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh
BRONZE Member
Haven't you heard? I come in six-packs now.
134 posts
Location: Los Angeles, California, USA
Haven't you heard? I come in six-packs now.
134 posts
Location: Los Angeles, California, USA
Posted:
Torturing prisoners, using ammunition containing depleted uranium, holding prisoners, not as prisoners of war, but as "enemy combatants" and holding thim indefinately in solitary confinement without any official charges being filed, invading a country without provocation or any other just cause.....I could go on....these things make someone a war criminal. And just because the U.N. hasn't gone after Bush, doesn't mean he's not a war criminal - that's like asking "If John's a murderer, then why isn't he in jail?'
Hey, I support our troops too, that's why I want them to come home so they can stop being pawns in a war fought for greed and corporate imerialism.
Okay done ranting
And cheesecake rocks!!
Written by: insaineCRAZY
I hate it when people use such terms as "war criminal" not to mention "cheesecake" it really isn't a cake, just a crustless pie, that stands 3 inches tall!
What is a war criminal? How do you become a war criminal? Other than commiting war crimes, der! I mean what grane of rice tips the scale?
Does an unjustified war, in the eyes of some, make you a war crimminal?
If he is a war criminal, why hasn't the UN gone after him?
Torturing prisoners, using ammunition containing depleted uranium, holding prisoners, not as prisoners of war, but as "enemy combatants" and holding thim indefinately in solitary confinement without any official charges being filed, invading a country without provocation or any other just cause.....I could go on....these things make someone a war criminal. And just because the U.N. hasn't gone after Bush, doesn't mean he's not a war criminal - that's like asking "If John's a murderer, then why isn't he in jail?'
Hey, I support our troops too, that's why I want them to come home so they can stop being pawns in a war fought for greed and corporate imerialism.
Okay done ranting
And cheesecake rocks!!
If you can talk you can sing / If you can walk you can dance
newbie
8 posts
Location: USA
8 posts
Location: USA
Posted:
I'm not necessarily proud to be American, I’m proud to be a decent human being. I wasn’t born in the US all though I currently live in it, I consider myself American.
Suer the US has strayed from it’s noble origin but give us a break!
Why does the US get such a bad rap? Everyone’s attention is on the UsofA, it’s the world power, naturally other nations and nationalities are quick to judge. But I can truly say having traveled the world over, for all its negatives I assure you, it compensates with positives. I won’t apologize for who I am, or what nationality I claim. Dio is right on… so Americans don’t have a well-developed sense of world community or a desire to develop one but then again who does, REALLY. Does anyone ever remember the good things the US has done…like saving the world from the Nazis?
We as a collective nation could use a strong dose of global perspective but he who lives in a perfect country… let him throw the first stone.
I'm not necessarily proud to be American, I’m proud to be a decent human being. I wasn’t born in the US all though I currently live in it, I consider myself American.
Suer the US has strayed from it’s noble origin but give us a break!
Why does the US get such a bad rap? Everyone’s attention is on the UsofA, it’s the world power, naturally other nations and nationalities are quick to judge. But I can truly say having traveled the world over, for all its negatives I assure you, it compensates with positives. I won’t apologize for who I am, or what nationality I claim. Dio is right on… so Americans don’t have a well-developed sense of world community or a desire to develop one but then again who does, REALLY. Does anyone ever remember the good things the US has done…like saving the world from the Nazis?
We as a collective nation could use a strong dose of global perspective but he who lives in a perfect country… let him throw the first stone.
By the way, I'm American you stupid hippy bastards.
BRONZE Member
Former Raver Invader... Not sure what i am now...
284 posts
Location: Southern California, USA
Former Raver Invader... Not sure what i am now...
284 posts
Location: Southern California, USA
Posted:
I'm proud to be a stringer... when it really comes down to it, it's not whether you're pro-bush, anti-bush, anti-war, buck fush, british, aussie-lander, french... er take that back, it CAN matter if you're french depending on certain things...... the only thing that matters is if you string says i.
Robin: Holy twist of plot batman!
the thousands of times these topics come up in conversations every day, all the boards posts about them are made....
Go-go-gadget......mutual boredom!
Much Love from the american STRINGER...
Raver Invader
~Zim
I'm proud to be a stringer... when it really comes down to it, it's not whether you're pro-bush, anti-bush, anti-war, buck fush, british, aussie-lander, french... er take that back, it CAN matter if you're french depending on certain things...... the only thing that matters is if you string says i.
Robin: Holy twist of plot batman!
the thousands of times these topics come up in conversations every day, all the boards posts about them are made....
Go-go-gadget......mutual boredom!
Much Love from the american STRINGER...
Raver Invader
~Zim
Clean for 6 months and counting... ah yeah, that's nice.
BRONZE Member
old hand
863 posts
Location: Berlin, Germany
old hand
863 posts
Location: Berlin, Germany
Posted:
imagine that I grew up in east germany with all the hatred against the west ( it was kind of brain washing) and I still like the americans I met in real life a lot it is just government and media (particularly) that build this bad image
imagine that I grew up in east germany with all the hatred against the west ( it was kind of brain washing) and I still like the americans I met in real life a lot it is just government and media (particularly) that build this bad image
What is psychology?- Looking for a black cat in a dark room. What is psychoanalysis? Psychoanalysis is looking for a black cat in a dark room -- in which there is no cat -- but finding one anyway.
BRONZE Member
Still wiggling
5,967 posts
Location: Belfast, Northern Ireland (UK)
Still wiggling
5,967 posts
Location: Belfast, Northern Ireland (UK)
Posted:
Emmm... ok.
Well, for my tuppence worth... I believe most people are unhappy with the government that heads their country. Often our 'leaders' follow ideals which we don't support and greed seems to prioritise. Perhaps this is because we are all younger (yes, even those who may be over
35, lol) and our attitudes and needs in life are different to those in office. However, it is important that we keep pressing our opposition - as this is the only way things change... everyone who voices their opposition to their government here in this forum must also be prepared to back it up by using their vote.
I think that many people in America are judged (rightly or wrongly) by others in the western world to be smug and arrogant regarding the power and ability of their country (perhaps why they are finding it so easy to shift the blame to the UN regarding the situation in Iraq). I have met some kind and friendly, some not so, Americans. But that can be true of any country.
I think what is unique in America is the complete self-belief, which others perceive as unjustified (and Americans seem to regard that negative response as jealousy).
However, when you think about how American children are brought up, it seems fairly understandable.
From the moment they are born Americans are told how great they are, patriotism is brought hugely into schools and every other aspect of life (including television - piped directly into the home), and the culture in that country is to consistently encourage, rarely to point out flaws.
They have a terrifyingly strong media network which rarely allows for the full picture to be shown. American folk, I know you will say that the media is independent, some may even think it is liberal, but we get American news channels in the UK and I have watched CNN and ABC and the rest give their 'balanced' opinions.
Often, the opposer will be given half the amount of airtime, their views subtly ridiculed through oppresive questioning and the descriptive language used is often biased and suggestive - this is not open and liberal media.
I watched a documentary last night on UKHistory, it was part of the acclaimed Correspondent series and was based on the news network al-Jazeera. One of the journalists made a point that I would support - with the fall of Saddam, al-Jazeera became the most free news network in the world (I did not make this point for Americans to give themselves kudos (and it's unfortunate I even I have to say that), but my point is that al-Jazeera is reviled in the American media as a 'terrorist-lovin' misinformation centre... but consider the facts)
I believe the constant encouragement and patriotism found in America is because it is a 'new' country and has not collectively settled with it's bloody past... Australia does not follow that ethos to the same extent because of it's perceived 'criminal' background. However, that constant encouragement and even to an extent, arrogance, can be found in pakeha New Zealand (Kiwi folk, I'm not trying to compare you to the US, but there is a sense of 'look what our founding fathers did and shouldn't we be proud of ourselves' in Aotearoa too).
Anyways, decent, good people are found the world over. Political and geographical borders shouldn't seperate us from the fact that we are all human and should be living together as a human community, instead of one split into warring tribes.
Take care fellow humans
Emmm... ok.
Well, for my tuppence worth... I believe most people are unhappy with the government that heads their country. Often our 'leaders' follow ideals which we don't support and greed seems to prioritise. Perhaps this is because we are all younger (yes, even those who may be over
35, lol) and our attitudes and needs in life are different to those in office. However, it is important that we keep pressing our opposition - as this is the only way things change... everyone who voices their opposition to their government here in this forum must also be prepared to back it up by using their vote.I think that many people in America are judged (rightly or wrongly) by others in the western world to be smug and arrogant regarding the power and ability of their country (perhaps why they are finding it so easy to shift the blame to the UN regarding the situation in Iraq). I have met some kind and friendly, some not so, Americans. But that can be true of any country.
I think what is unique in America is the complete self-belief, which others perceive as unjustified (and Americans seem to regard that negative response as jealousy).
However, when you think about how American children are brought up, it seems fairly understandable.
From the moment they are born Americans are told how great they are, patriotism is brought hugely into schools and every other aspect of life (including television - piped directly into the home), and the culture in that country is to consistently encourage, rarely to point out flaws.
They have a terrifyingly strong media network which rarely allows for the full picture to be shown. American folk, I know you will say that the media is independent, some may even think it is liberal, but we get American news channels in the UK and I have watched CNN and ABC and the rest give their 'balanced' opinions.
Often, the opposer will be given half the amount of airtime, their views subtly ridiculed through oppresive questioning and the descriptive language used is often biased and suggestive - this is not open and liberal media.
I watched a documentary last night on UKHistory, it was part of the acclaimed Correspondent series and was based on the news network al-Jazeera. One of the journalists made a point that I would support - with the fall of Saddam, al-Jazeera became the most free news network in the world (I did not make this point for Americans to give themselves kudos (and it's unfortunate I even I have to say that), but my point is that al-Jazeera is reviled in the American media as a 'terrorist-lovin' misinformation centre... but consider the facts)
I believe the constant encouragement and patriotism found in America is because it is a 'new' country and has not collectively settled with it's bloody past... Australia does not follow that ethos to the same extent because of it's perceived 'criminal' background. However, that constant encouragement and even to an extent, arrogance, can be found in pakeha New Zealand (Kiwi folk, I'm not trying to compare you to the US, but there is a sense of 'look what our founding fathers did and shouldn't we be proud of ourselves' in Aotearoa too).
Anyways, decent, good people are found the world over. Political and geographical borders shouldn't seperate us from the fact that we are all human and should be living together as a human community, instead of one split into warring tribes.
Take care fellow humans
Getting to the other side
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