-Mike
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella
A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura
If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh
Written by :
As outlined in the March 2005 issue of the Health Promotion Journal of Australia (PDF 88kb), the number of regular cyclists in Western Australia almost doubled between 1982 and 1989 from 220,000 to 400,000. During this time, the numbers of cyclists admitted to West Australian hospitals and reported deaths and serious injuries per 10,000 regular cyclists fell by 48% and 33% respectively.
As reported in March 2007 and based on data from Western Australia, Queensland and Victoria, the number of Australian children walking or riding a bicycle to school has plunged from about 80% in 1977 to the current level around 5%. The data on this website confirms that in Western Australia, the massive decline in cycling (and children's health and safety) began around 1991 when the helmet law was enacted.
Written by :
Personally, I don’t see how cyclists can be taken seriously if they don’t support safety helmets.
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
#homeofpoi -- irc.newnet.net Come talk to us we're bored
Warning: Please Do Not Jump On The Seals
Written by OWD
How insulting!
Written by OWD
I'm not going to personally comment on this….
Written by
cyclehelmets.org is the website of an international coalition of people with an interest in cycling and the damage being caused by the mandatory wearing of bicycle helmets.
Written by
Again, any pro-helmet choice cyclists, are going to ask whether an organisation called the 'bicycle helmet safety institute' are necessarily going to be impartial on this issue.
Written by OWD
This is not just a personal liberty issue, it's about forcing cyclists to engage in an act (helmet wearing) which, they believe, makes cycling more risky.
Written by Lurch
I'm pretty sure if you'd notice Stone, those of us who have commented about the nanny state and opposed legislation requiring adults to wear helmets have all fully endorsed them, and say we use them ourselves.
If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh
Written by :onewheeldave
While remaining completely oblivious to the arguments expressed above which claim to show that forcing cyclists to wear a helmet actually increases head injuries.
Written by : StoneWritten by OWD
I'm not going to personally comment on this….
Well, for someone who states they are impartial, you seem to have picked up some speed in this discussion.
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
Written by :StoneWritten by OWD
This is not just a personal liberty issue, it's about forcing cyclists to engage in an act (helmet wearing) which, they believe, makes cycling more risky.
Well I’d say the pro-choicers are wrong. In my experience of mandatory helmet laws, helmets don’t make cycling more risky. I’ve been there on the helmet laws, done that on the helmet laws, and lived because of the helmet laws. Have you or any of the pro-choicers done that?
Written by :StoneWritten by OWD
This is not just a personal liberty issue, it's about forcing cyclists to engage in an act (helmet wearing) which, they believe, makes cycling more risky.
Well I’d say the pro-choicers are wrong. In my experience of mandatory helmet laws, helmets don’t make cycling more risky. I’ve been there on the helmet laws, done that on the helmet laws, and lived because of the helmet laws. Have you or any of the pro-choicers done that?
Your argument, and the pro-choicer’s argument seems to be more about - I don't want to and don’t tell me what to do, rather than cycle safety. It’s all in the words you use. Like it's “pro-choice” and not "pro-safety".
You points are mostly about choice, which has nothing to do with reducing injury or saving lives. It’s more about being seen as a “nanny state” and the implications of anti-terrorist laws rather than any real issues about cycle safety.
You can take it or leave it, Helmets Save Lives.
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
Written by OWD
Some, often very experienced cyclists, oppose compulsory helmets because of the argument, and the stats, which show that compulsory helmets make cycling more dangerous.
Disagree with them if you want, but don't make out that they don't believe what they're saying.
Written by OWD
How would you tell? How did you tell? Was it anything more than a safe feeling you got from wearing a helmet?
Written by
Helmets quite possibly do save lives- when made compulsory though, they also probably lead to other lives being lost.
Written by OWD
Stone, it's perfectly normal for a person to put forward an argument without having personally decided whether it is sufficiently valid to become their actual point of view; hence why I stressed it was not my own argument.
If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh
Written by
Some, often very experienced cyclists,oppose compulsory helmets because of the argument, and the stats, which show that compulsory helmets make cycling more dangerous.
Written by
1. Compulsory helmets=less cyclists on the roads
I {Heart} hand me downs and spinning in the snow.<br /><br />
-Mike
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella
A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura
Written by :stone
Dentrassi
Written by :onewheeldave
As reported in March 2007 and based on data from Western Australia, Queensland and Victoria, the number of Australian children walking or riding a bicycle to school has plunged from about 80% in 1977 to the current level around 5%. The data on this website confirms that in Western Australia, the massive decline in cycling (and children's health and safety) began around 1991 when the helmet law was enacted.
"Here kitty kitty...." - Schroedinger.
If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh
Written by :onewheeldave
For full details read my previous posts which elaborate on this, but, as a very concise summary-
1. Compulsory helmets=less cyclists on the roads
Perhaps the single biggest factor that increases safety for cyclists, is that, all other things being equal-
2. more cyclists=more safety
So, where those factors are concerned, compulsory helmets=roads less safe for cyclists
Written by :Doc Lightning
I view this as the first step down a slippery slope. If I can mandate that you wear a helmet or a seatbelt, then can I mandate that you can't smoke pot? Can I mandate that you can't eat fast food? Can I mandate that you take high blood pressure medication? How far can I mandate your own personal behavior to modify your own personal safety?
I would rather educate people than mandate their behavior towards themselves.
Written by :natasqi
And I don't think it's for that person's personal safety.. I think it's for the burden on the health system, for the ambulance officers who have to see the splattered brains on the sidewalk, the surgeons who have to stay up late for PREVENTABLE accidents.
-Mike
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella
A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura
#homeofpoi -- irc.newnet.net Come talk to us we're bored
Warning: Please Do Not Jump On The Seals
the best smiles are the ones you lead to
Written by :Stone
Anyhow, what’s the relationship between less cyclists on the road and an increased increase accident rate? Safety in numbers perhaps?
Written by :Written by OWD
How would you tell? How did you tell? Was it anything more than a safe feeling you got from wearing a helmet?
I still have a pulse, I’m alive.
Written by :Written by OWD
Stone, it's perfectly normal for a person to put forward an argument without having personally decided whether it is sufficiently valid to become their actual point of view; hence why I stressed it was not my own argument.
I admit, I'm finding it difficult to believe that you don't have an opinion and are impartial in this discussion.
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
Written by :onewheeldave
Could be any number of things- my opinions are that-
1. the more cyclists there are, the more motorists get used to their presence
2. the more understanding occurs between the two groups
3. the more the two groups come to see themselves as, not enemies, but, fellow road-users
the best smiles are the ones you lead to
Written by :Doc LightningWritten by :natasqi
And I don't think it's for that person's personal safety.. I think it's for the burden on the health system, for the ambulance officers who have to see the splattered brains on the sidewalk, the surgeons who have to stay up late for PREVENTABLE accidents.
OK. Then let's ban:
1) Any fireplay
2) Skiing
3) Biking (period)
4) Rollerblading
5) Smoking
6) Drinking
7) Meat
8) Sex outside of marriage
9) Skydiving
...where does it stop?
"Here kitty kitty...." - Schroedinger.
Written by :natasqi
Sadly, the 'slippery slope' argument is a fallacy.
So to make your argument, you must define and prove the relevant steps that are key to your argument that by regulating helmet use, not only will it lead to other regulations come in place, but these legislations will be detrimental to society on a social or 'freedom' level, whichever your point is...
-Mike
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella
A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura
Written by :
And I don't think it's for that person's personal safety.. I think it's for the burden on the health system, for the ambulance officers who have to see the splattered brains on the sidewalk, the surgeons who have to stay up late for PREVENTABLE accidents.
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
Written by :onewheeldave
Additionally, natasqi, Lightnings reply isn't necessarily the 'slippery slope' arguement.
You said-Written by :
And I don't think it's for that person's personal safety.. I think it's for the burden on the health system, for the ambulance officers who have to see the splattered brains on the sidewalk, the surgeons who have to stay up late for PREVENTABLE accidents.
the implication being that any personal choice actions that can lead to needing repairing by the medical services, are prime targets for legislation to prevent people making those choices.
Lightning simply provided a list of other activities which, if your implication was correct, would similarly be up for legislation using the exact same reasoning.
Seen like that, it's nothing to do with 'slippery slopes'.
Written by :Doc Lightning
Natasqi, let me give you a little lesson from physician to student.
...
But ultimately, as physicians, our job is not to pass judgement and it is not our job to control our patients. Our job is to make recommendations and to educate our patients on what decisions will have the healthiest outcome.
...
The idea is that we have to let people look out for their own best interests and make decisions for themselves as competent adults. But we should let them make their own decisions. You can make arguments about costs to society and money and blah blah, but there is no price tag for liberty.
-Mike
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella
A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura
Written by : Nat
I'm a person that gets frustrated when I spend three hours with a patient discussing how smoking will harm their unborn baby, them agreeing with everything I say and making the choice to change and then find them puffing away outside an hour later. (on hospital grounds which IS illegal)
Written by : Nat
But as a PERSON, not as a health profession related person... I would welcome legislation that could increase the general health of the population, even if it may take some of my liberty.
Written by : Nat
If I knew that by bringing in legislation that all women must wear headscarfs (just hair, not full face, and no restrictions on other clothes) would definitely prevent anyone anywhere to be raped ever again, I would wear one.
the best smiles are the ones you lead to