Forums > Social Discussion > I have to...Scientology

Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

Written by: Valura
Hey did anyone else notice that the page that spiral linked to in regards to murder/sucidies and scientology, that only two of them work? The rest are 404 and broken links? 2 out of 23 links work.
HMMMMMMMM someone been cleaning up the net a little?


Most likely... they've been trying to shut down the Operation Clambake site for years and years now, I'm very impressed with the fact that it's still going in the face of legal and other threats.

"Moo," said the happy cow.

ture na sig

After much consideration, I find that the view is worth the asphyxiation.
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I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.

ture na sig

"vices are like genitals - most are ugly to behold, and yet we find that our own are dear to us."
(G.W. Dahlquist)

Owner of Dragosani's left half

back

"Ours is not to question The Head; it is enough to revel in the ubiquitous inanity of The Head, the unwanted proximity of The Head, the unrelenting HellPresence of The Head, indeed the very UNYIELDING IRRELEVANCE of The Head!" --Revelation X

Oooh, I was going to lurk for a while, but I can't keep myself from answering now

The word 'cult' should not be applied to $cientology at all: it has nothing to do with religion. It is a money-making scheme, and they only try to come off as a religion because they will get tax benefits from it.

I used to mirror Operation Clambake on my site a few years back, but had to take it down due to repeated threats from the big bosses and their lawyers in Copenhagen. They were going to sue me for publishing copyrighted material, as far as I can remember, when in fact they normally deny that the papers describing the different OT levels are from them at all. Bunch of weirdos. At long last I took it down, because I was afraid of what might happen.

I also visited the local centre in Oslo, did the test, saw the movie and - surprise! - I needed to buy some books, then I would improve enormously and get the powers to twist people around my little fingers. And be allowed to buy more books, of course. Never at any time did they mention any beliefs in any god or deity of any kind, only talking about self-improvement and 'getting better than others'.

It's also rather creepy that every centre has an office for mr Hubbard standing there, waiting for him, though the sod has been dead for ages. Did I say dead? I meant 'he reached another level'.

Ok. Time to go and spin before my head spins more

... doch kein Feuer, blended wei�
taute je in mir das Eis...

It is an interesting point of discussion to wonder why Scientology should be worse than any other of the myriad fked-up religions out there, whether they're practiced by billions or thousands.

To me, it's the belief that "all medicine is poison to the body" and that psychiatric complaints can be cured by "auditing." Maybe I'm just biased as a physician.

I also don't appreciate their use of Narconon, which is supposed to seem to be similar to Narcotics Anonymous or Al-Anon, to recruit.

But is it really that bad to make people believe completely incredible things?

I mean...a man in the sky with a white beard who created the universe and is in this battle with this dude underground in a pit of fire and if you're good you go to the sky and if you're bad then eternal fire? That's no more sensible than thetans and aliens clamped to you.

And have you SEEN the Vatican? Want to talk about money-making? Wow...

So I'm not sure, other than the medical bit, that Scientology is really that much worse than any other religion. Their beliefs are just a bit less familiar.

-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

Yeah, agreement on the Vatican point, but to be fair that was built when Roman Catholicism was practiced by most of Europe. Because it affected everyone (whether they practised or not) it was easy to get the money for it through taxation.

And I would say that aliens are more credible than deities, but I think they're more likely to mark our Solar System as a "No Go" area rather than come and save "The Worthy" or whatever.

$cientology

After much consideration, I find that the view is worth the asphyxiation.
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I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.

sethis - $cientology

oh man...

To quote "Dogma" - "Its kinda hard to change a belief, its a lot easier to change an idea"

Some of the principles in Scientology, as I have read them, seem like good deductive reasoning (i.e. he made it up, but it sounds logical)
However, once an idea becomes a belief system, it starts to fail. Look at Christianity!

----Disclaimer - If you're Catholic, look away now, I have no wish to offend anyone, but my views may be viewed as offensive by some people - Sorry, but this is my opinion only!----------------

Roman Catholicism is a cult! Just a very successful one. When, i think it was, Emperor Constantine was getting a bit p/o with established Roman religion, he decided "That bunch of people we've been throwing to the lions, those "Christians", that looks good to me..." He threw out a lot of the gospels, found 4 that suited his ideals (control, mostly) and installed it as the official religion of the Roman empire... The reason the Vatican is in Rome is political, nothing to do with the religion, when the HQ of Christianity should really be Jerusalem.

In the early Christians (the ones who used the fish as the symbol of their faith, not the cross) were a suppressed order.

I'll stop there and draw comparisons on topic now!!!

Scientology has some good ideas, the idea that spirit is important, resonant energy that kinda thing, but all the alien stuff is far too far fetched. the heirarchy (*) system looks like Masonry, all secret orders and the like, simply appears as a way to get peeps to spend more money! *sigh*

Just like the founding era of Catholicism? A strong power base distributing dogma to the populace? *Help*

*hierarchy
c.1343, from O.Fr. ierarchie, from M.L. hierarchia "ranked division of angels" (in the system of Dionysius the Areopagite), from Gk. hierarchia "rule of a high priest," from hierarches "high priest, leader of sacred rites," from ta hiera "the sacred rites" (neut. pl. of hieros "sacred") + archein "to lead, rule." Sense of "ranked organization of persons or things" first recorded 1619, initially of clergy, probably infl. by higher.

ohmygodlaserbeamspewpewpew!

If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

After much consideration, I find that the view is worth the asphyxiation.
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I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.

It took a while, but once their numbers dropped from 50 down to 8, the other dwarves started to suspect Hungry.

one up my ditto count...

Written by:

think Pele said it best with..."most "religions" are so overly political now that I personally believe they have lost sight of the tenets of their own beliefs." i think is the reason so many ppl have such a negative view of 'organised' religions.

ohmygodlaserbeamspewpewpew!

Sethis, I think you will find that Catholicism is a religion by virtue of a belief in a supernatural God. Apart from Judaism, Christianity and Islam could you suggest a few of these �many� monotheistic cults/religions that you indicate are out there. I would be interested in learning more about them.

Icer, perhaps my definition of religion is passe, but I think that a monotheistic belief in a definitive distinguishing characteristic b/t religions.

The only reason people look down on scientology is because it is perhaps a bit more transparent that umm so called �more conventional� belief systems, and what are considered "proper" religions.

Whether it is good or bad is purely subjective, and since when have religions NOT been political and manipulative ? ? ?

Karl Marx said it best �religion is the opiate of the masses�.

dream on

If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

ture na sig

And since that quote is always taken out of context, I wonder if anyone knows what the rest of the paragraph says?

Other monotheistic cults? Most of the offshoots from Christianity. Quakers, Evangelicals, Methodists, and all of the other denominations.

Well, the debate here seems to be wallowing in semantics slightly, so can I redirect people to the original question, that of peoples opinion of Scientology? I've yet to see anyone supporting it in it's entireity, in fact, not very many people seem to be that supportive in Religion in general.

Lots of questions along the lines of "What makes Scientology worse than anything else?" But that isn't really answering the question.

I personally think that its a bit like Terry Pratchett's view of the Patrician:
"But he doesn't wear a crown or sit on a throne and he doesn't tell you it's right that he should rule. I hate the bas*ard. But he's honest. Honest like a corkscrew."

Kind of like Scientology; it takes your money, but doesn't pretend that there's a right or noble reason for it. It's all about selfishness.

After much consideration, I find that the view is worth the asphyxiation.
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I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.

I like that in Pratchett's universe, the gods go out, get drunk, then throw rocks through atheists' windows

The optimist claims that we are living in the best of all possible worlds.
The pessimist fears this is true.

Always make time to play in the snow.

After much consideration, I find that the view is worth the asphyxiation.
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I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.

Thanx Quiet, will check it out as I don�t know much about Hinduism.

Most quotes are wrong and out of context, so!

Offshoots from Christianity, my point

Well I can�t imagine why people are so un-supportive of religion in general. Perhaps, it has something to do with their track record.

Back on topic, personally I loved Time Enough for Love, but Stranger in a Strange Land waz the best.

Checks spelling, hopes I got the titles right

barrrrrrr

If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

It took a while, but once their numbers dropped from 50 down to 8, the other dwarves started to suspect Hungry.

I need to read some more Pratchett, think I read one and really liked it.

Just picked up "Shaman�s Crossing" by Robin Hobb, who I think is the best since Raymond Feist and the �Magician� series.

If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

Gemmel is also very good at exemplifying moral dilemmas in a fantasy setting. That is what I like about Pratchett and Gemmel, and many other Fantasy writers as well, they show the ethical problems faced by people trying to do the right thing in an impossible situation. Plus the fact that they can show various "real-life" attitudes without having people ring them up accusing them of hating whatever sub-culture they belong to. Anyone read "Small Gods" by TP? It's got some *very* good points to make about the evolution and function of Religion.

See, I knew there was an "On-Topic" point in there somewhere

After much consideration, I find that the view is worth the asphyxiation.
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I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.