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ado-p
GOLD Member since May 2004

ado-p

Pirate Ninja
Location: Galway/Ireland

Total posts: 3882
Posted:so im a bit injured at the moment and its got me to thining about a few different things



its difficult to describe the problem so i wont bore you with the details.



what it all comes down to is this. i hurt myself in such a way that a whole range of movements now cause massive agitation in the soft tissue nerves of my entire body. typing and spinning are probably the worst but it also includes, sitting, lying dancing etc.



now im not here to complain. ive got some thoughts i'd like to share on movement. and more importantly, not moving at all.



So this has been going on for about a month now and during that time i've discovered - as you do - what hurts and what doesnt. What makes it interesting is that i find that if i move 'right', sit right, stand right, it doesnt hurt. not even a little bit



I have to cut out all uneccasary movement (im not totally sucessfull as you can imagine but its a fantastic mental excercise). A simple example is sitting still. i just dont do this. i am always, always tapping, picking, moving something. I cant do that anymore. Sitting still has become a challenge. As is standing up straight. not putting my feet up in front of me .This is easily the hardest habit to break, i've been putting my feet up on any every available surface my entire life.



I can now type at least three times faster without looking at the keyboard because i had to learn to type very, very softly.



I alway thought i had good posture. I did once i guess but five years of office work has it ruined. I certainly dont now. to the point that my physio taped me into th right posture and told me to wear the thing for twelve hours.



I'm now more aware of the space around me because forcing myself to stand up and correcting my posture is increasing my lung capacity and forcing my head up straight and thus, eyes off the ground....



I still cant sit still but im getting much better. At the least i can now sit up straight. Last week on the train i sat in the same position (back straight, head up, legs square and feet flat on the ground) for three hours. Im quite sure i've never sat still for that long in my life. It worked, I got off the train and it didnt hurt anywhere for a change. This is great meditation. As is walking properly. Which is an incredibly hard thing to do. It seems i have to forget how to walk to get it right. Using breathing and relaxation and not just a little bit of focusing my body walks itself. I've gotten this excercise to work maybe three times in my life. i.e. maintaining an awarness of a physical act but at the same time doing nothing to interfere or manipulate it thus allowing the body into its natural (and most comfy) position.



it came as a huge shock to me how out of shape (literally) my body has become and how many totally unconcious habits i have in my movement. i've always prided myself on the exact opposite and now through negative feedback im learning alot.



Sorry my thoughts arent more structured.



so to the question



Can you stand still?



hugs



a


Love is the law.

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Skulduggery
GOLD Member since Aug 2004

Skulduggery

Pirate Pixie Crew Captain
Location: Wales

Total posts: 8428
Posted:Hey sweetie,

I've been reading a book called 'The Way Of Energy' by Master Lam Kam Chuen. You might want to give it a look. Its about the Chinese art of internal strength with Chi Kung exercise, sometimes known ast the Art of standing still.


Feed me Chocolate!!! Feed me NOW!

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Bird
GOLD Member since Aug 2003

Bird

now available in "advanced"
Location: Cornwall, United Kingdom

Total posts: 6086
Posted:Is it any good Skully?? I've seen you fidgeting like a good 'un! wink

I'm a bit odd (nothing new there I hear you say) some days I can't keep still and am constantly doing something, be it, tapping my foot or drumming my fingers. Whereas other days I can be almost perfectly still!


My state of mind is not yours to define!

There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."

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Skulduggery
GOLD Member since Aug 2004

Skulduggery

Pirate Pixie Crew Captain
Location: Wales

Total posts: 8428
Posted:Its not about how to keep still. Its a form of exercise..... a bit like Tai Chi but you do it standing still. I'll lend you the book and you can see.

I fidget all the time. I've never been a still person. I find it really hard to meditate because my mind is never still. I guess my body just follows my brain and fidgets and twitches. The Muscle spasms don't help either ubblol


Feed me Chocolate!!! Feed me NOW!

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ado-p
GOLD Member since May 2004

ado-p

Pirate Ninja
Location: Galway/Ireland

Total posts: 3882
Posted:Sounds good Skully. I'll have a look see.

Isnt it funny that trying to be still makes it harder. as soon as the minds attention is drawn to the body the impetus is to move it.


learning to actively relax individual muscles is a great excercise. breathings very important. and not day dreaming. when i get too relaxed my mind just wanders off on a little adventure.

differnt types of meditation help too, i find that i can relax my mind easier by distracting it with pleasing symbolic images. like a big green valley for my lungs with the breeze as my breath and a babbling brook for my energy and blood flowing through the middle. A beautiful tree appeared in there and is still there. I didnt put it there though smile

so i have to focus on relaxing. this is in itself an act. what does it take to do nothing?


Love is the law.

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Facelessjoker
BRONZE Member since Sep 2004

enthusiast
Location: Exeter, United Kingdom

Total posts: 249
Posted:This made me realise i dont actually know how to sit up straight... what are you supposed to do?? hehe.

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ado-p
GOLD Member since May 2004

ado-p

Pirate Ninja
Location: Galway/Ireland

Total posts: 3882
Posted:try standing up



legs apart about shoulder width



knees bent, feet straight



put your hand on the small of your back and feel the curve. try pulling in your pelvis until this straightens out



now imagine a hook on a string pulling up from your sternum, or just above your solar plexus. this lifts up your rib cage and straightens out your spine while centering your arms and shoulders without any effort from either.



for my head i sometimes imagine i am suspended from a silver wire. you might notice your chin dropping down a bit.



there are endless excercises like this. whatever you try make sure it doesnt hurt. in theory you should be able say sit on a bench with no back and still sit perfectly upright while staying relaxed.



i cant so that yet but i've noticed alot of improvment


Love is the law.

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Patroclus
SILVER Member since Aug 2004

spirito vagante
Location: Bristol (uk) / NYC

Total posts: 2
Posted:I've read the way of energy one and practised it for a while. Saw some really real benefits.



If you like that one, you may wanna have a look for "Empty Force" by Paul Dong. It goes into chi raising/manipulation in more depth, but the exercises in the back are fantastic, probably just what you need, plus a few fringe benefits if you keep it up.



Pilates did a lot for me too in terms of keeping my body still (albeit in some pretty freaky positions).



So to answer the question, yeah, i can... but it took me ages (falling asleep standing up is just asking for a nasty wakeup call eek)


just because something is simple, doesn't mean it isn't difficult

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Kyle McLean
BRONZE Member since Jul 2003

Kyle McLean

Living it up
Location: Brisbane/Berlin, Australia

Total posts: 364
Posted:Ado-P, big hugs. I know you were not fishing for sympathy but hugs never hurt anyone (as long as they have correct posture that is). It's great to see you taking positive things away from what sounds like a very challenging situation. Will it be long term?
Just on the topic of standing still:
we don't do it.
There is a really cool game you can play if you just relax and stand with good posture. You simply try to be aware of your body and gravity, and you will find that the body is improvising all the time to maintain balance. The larger movments are kind of a swaying motion and are quite noticable (at least when you are looking for them).


Contact without dance is like sex without wiggling.
A) it does feel as good
B) it does not look as good on film

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dromepixie


dromepixie

veteran
Location: Florida

Total posts: 1463
Posted:MEDITATION

JUGGLEwithyourmind!

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Gnor
BRONZE Member since Mar 2003

Gnor

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Perth, Australia

Total posts: 5814
Posted:Nothing like pain to break a habit of a lifetime.

I have a family of squirmers including me. Good luck with new habits and how do yu go spinning now??


Is it the Truth?
Is it Fair to all concerned?
Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?

Im in a lonely battle with the world with a fish to match the chip on my shoulder. Gnu in Binnu in a cnu

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ado-p
GOLD Member since May 2004

ado-p

Pirate Ninja
Location: Galway/Ireland

Total posts: 3882
Posted:Thanks guys.



hug's for all.



Jus been to the physio today. The good news is the injury didnt with start work or spinning. Though both agravate it. Tis all in me posture so i'll i have to do is learn to sit still and straighen up a bit. Then im laughing. Still, no spinning for another while.



Thats some really interesting stuff guys, definatly gonna look up those books.



Kyle, thats really cool. I've noticed myself swaying while trying to stand still. Always thought it was because i smoked too much peace



Its incredible the amount of movement our subconcious influences on us. Combined with bad habits its a positive recipe for destruction



Also i think its interesting the affect consious change can have on body language and projection.



I'm more confident when i stand up straight. They reinforce each i reckon. Just like i sag and droop when im down or feeling sorry for myself.



Its like reverse engineering your self esteem.


Love is the law.

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Faberg
GOLD Member since Aug 2003

veteran
Location: Dublin, Ireland

Total posts: 1459
Posted:just a little word about Chi Gung (or Chi Kung or Qi Gong) to avoid any confusion

someone mentioned it as being commonly known as "the art of standing still". this is incorrect

i practise chi gung and though there are hundreds of chi gung "exercises", most of them involve movement; bending, stretching, pulling, pushing, rotating etc. only some are standing-still postures

a-dopey, i can help you out with a few at the weekend if you like, if you're not getting rat-arsed ubbrollsmile


My mind not only wanders, it sometimes leaves completely smile

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ado-p
GOLD Member since May 2004

ado-p

Pirate Ninja
Location: Galway/Ireland

Total posts: 3882
Posted:i have done alot chi gung exercises that involve being still. and alot more that didnt. some of them didnt even require you to be in any particular position. i like the ones where you get your heart rate to half in under a minute smile

there is almost infinite variation, thats what happens when you get a billion people in one country smile

and yes, i'll be rat arsed. you may notice some of that swaying effect kyle mentioned above

im still very interested in what everyone thinks about 'not moving'

it doesnt have to be chi related or even meditiation.

can you just sit there and not move? how long can you do it for?


now can you do it with your back straight?

is it easier to do if you think about not moving?

easier if you think about nothing? (can you think about nothing?)

easier of you distract yourself and think about ramdon things or even focus on a image or thought or sound?


I reckon meditating when your walking has alot in common with doing it perfectly still. You dont have to think to walk because your body knows how to do it. Just like it knows how make your heart beat. Most of the time we dont think about any of our movements at all. Which may be the problem.


Love is the law.

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Phaerie
BRONZE Member since Jan 2005

Phaerie

veteran
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Total posts: 1240
Posted:hmm... for a while in melbourne i was doing life modelling for artists, which as you can imagine is doing a variety of different poses and holding them... sometimes for up to 20 mins (might be longer if it was comfortable sitting of lying etc) which can be very challenging. i actually had to stop doing because i wasnt fit enough (to be still!)
but was a great lesson in being aware of your body and how much you do naturally move. although i loved doing it, i doubt that i will go back to it unless for a friend or some such. i always felt really stagnant after being so still and had to do lots of bouncing or running or dancing just to get everything moving again. being completely still i dont think is a great idea, esp not for long periods of time, however being aware of your movement and minimising it is definately a good idea, just as an excercise of awareness biggrin


Only when you close your eyes can you really see...

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Kyle McLean
BRONZE Member since Jul 2003

Kyle McLean

Living it up
Location: Brisbane/Berlin, Australia

Total posts: 364
Posted:Lol Phaerie nice to hear your thoughts on that. I did some life modeling last year in Germany for an art college. I was amazed how much I learnt about movment, without really doing any. Yeah could be a bit of a drag if the pose time was long. We would somtimes also do crazy one or two minute a pose stuff where you could just make crazy shapes and the students would scramble to get something on paper before the next one came. Then it was really funny to see the different ways weight can be distributed.
Did you it nude or with cloths? lol that's a bit rude to ask, no need to answer if you're redface
Cheers,
Kyle


Contact without dance is like sex without wiggling.
A) it does feel as good
B) it does not look as good on film

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Doc Lightning
GOLD Member since May 2001

Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA

Total posts: 13920
Posted:I used to have to. I had similar pain where every move I made had to be guarded.

Then ENBREL happened and now I'm slouched in this deskchair.


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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Phaerie
BRONZE Member since Jan 2005

Phaerie

veteran
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Total posts: 1240
Posted:*laffs* kyle, yeah its fun doing the quick sketch ones :P
yeah i did it with no clothes on... in melb... then i move up here to bris and stop doing it... where is the logic?!?


Only when you close your eyes can you really see...

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Kyle McLean
BRONZE Member since Jul 2003

Kyle McLean

Living it up
Location: Brisbane/Berlin, Australia

Total posts: 364
Posted:Melbourne or Germany = too cold for clothes
Brisbane = too warm for nudity
rolleyes


Contact without dance is like sex without wiggling.
A) it does feel as good
B) it does not look as good on film

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Phaerie
BRONZE Member since Jan 2005

Phaerie

veteran
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Total posts: 1240
Posted:*laffs* i think your onto something there :P
sorry to steer this thread away from the real point....

*steers it back on track to talking about standing still*


Only when you close your eyes can you really see...

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Sakura_Moon


Sakura_Moon

Hop's Kitten Jester.
Location: Wonderland igloo, Vic, Austral...

Total posts: 1803
Posted:Dont worry - the physio had to tape me up too!!!!
The stupid tape stayed on for 16 hrs and drove me crazy hug many hugs to you


.:Pink Exocutioner:.

I am Jack's Raging Bile Duct...

Loving you from the deepest part of my loins.


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Pele
BRONZE Member since Dec 2000

Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA

Total posts: 6193
Posted:I can. I was an art-class model in high school and college. I took that and turned it into doing The Human Statue effect for money.

My body can stay still...but my mind can't, so meditation is out of the question for me. It's nice to have something to think about when stuck in a pose.

You can also look up/research Alexandrian posture and movement patterns. Not only does it deal with correct posture whilst sitting, standing, walking but also the correct ways to twist, bend and move without strain.
I don't have the patience or desire to really focus on working it into my life permanently (I *love* movement, it's the primary focus in my work) but for the class I did it in, it is wonderful.


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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