Educate yourself in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
the best smiles are the ones you lead to
Written by:
So in fact "unconditioned action" is achieved in not putting together the pieces with the mind, but with the heart - with something that is not trying to analyse and finding explanations, but is taking the moment AS IS...
Written by:
And this unconditioned action will most likely be the right one - suiting the situation...
Anyone disagree?
He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze long into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.
Nietzsche
Written by: Stone
Jeff (fake) I think the proof of the pudding is in the eating.
Perhaps, as suggested, I’ve never actually practiced free will, but I do know it exists. It’s in the Bible - Genesis 2:16-17. Adam and Eve, fruit from the Tree of Knowledge in Garden of Eden and all that.
Written by: stone
For 'free will' you need to be completely independent of determinism. You have to “break the cycle” of the deterministic or the primitive brain (the animalistic survival part of the brain). I suspect the deterministic survival program becomes what we call the self or ego or whatever we call it, when it takes that programming into our huge higher brain.
Written by: stone
To break the cycle we have to let go deterministic programming, or break the ego or self. When that happens we can have free will. It's like we become robots before we can escape being a robot.
Written by: stone
So, one question that remains is did we get or loose free will in the Garden of Eden?
According to Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle of Quantum Dynamics, we may already be making love right now...
Written by: FireTom
Some Buddhists claim that "abolishing all desires" will be the way - which is opposed (also by me, myself and I - at the same time) not because I like to be stuck in the desire, but do not want to replace one desire (or many) with another... (the desire to be free of all desire)... this is a merry go round, you know.
Written by: FireTom
"Free will" (in my understanding) is in fact "free" action... "free" action (in my understanding) is in fact action free from my very own programming as much as possible. To approach every one and every situation like new, to experience the moment in the moment and truely see the situation "as is" and not with my deterministic glasses......
No? Anyone disagree?
Written by: dream
On the contrary, I would suggest that by examining a problem, and evaluating evidence by tracing parts of the deterministic networks - ie trying to gain as deep as understanding of the multiplicity of causal factors as possible - one is likely to make a better choice.
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh
Written by: Stone
Jeff (fake) some of you guys are so stuck in this deterministic brain that you cannot even imagine that it is possible to escape the programming. . So when you ask for proof I suggested you really have to experience some things to know them. Perhaps, as an example try comparing free thinkers and robotic thinkers. Like the Dalai Lama with to the Pope or Gandhi to Bush. The bit from the Bible was to demonstrate that this is a very old discussion, and perhaps there are some answers in the Bible.
According to Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle of Quantum Dynamics, we may already be making love right now...
Written by: jeff
I would suggest that you don't fully grasp what we mean by 'free will'. When we say 'free will' we mean something that's outcome hasn't yet been determined yet somehow isn't random. Now the Dalai Lama and Gandhi didn't do anything that would be considered 'free will'. Nor did Einstein or anyone else you care to mention. Within our universe it simply isn't possible. Neither you nor I can ever experience it and no one ever has.
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
Faith
Nay, whatever comes one hour was sunlit and the most high gods may not make boast of any better thing than to have watched that hour as it passed
Written by: onewheeldave
For me, a manifestation of free-will is any choice made by a being which is determined by that beings state of mind, based on his/her beliefs/past experiences etc.
According to Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle of Quantum Dynamics, we may already be making love right now...
If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh
According to Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle of Quantum Dynamics, we may already be making love right now...
Written by:
To that extent, determinism and free-will are compatible, in fact, determinism is an essential component of free-will.
If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh
Written by: Stone
Well said OWD, it's all starting to make senseWritten by:
To that extent, determinism and free-will are compatible, in fact, determinism is an essential component of free-will.
The practical consequences are: the real world does not exist inside your head. The real world exists outside you head. Heaven is not up there, it’s out there.
ok
If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh
According to Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle of Quantum Dynamics, we may already be making love right now...
If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh
Written by: FireTom
Dut - very nice as I do believe it's history repeating anyways... Meaning that we are living the past (again) until we "break the chain".... Some Buddhists claim that "abolishing all desires" will be the way - which is opposed (also by me, myself and I - at the same time) not because I like to be stuck in the desire, but do not want to replace one desire (or many) with another... (the desire to be free of all desire)... this is a merry go round, you know.
"Free will" (in my understanding) is in fact "free" action... "free" action (in my understanding) is in fact action free from my very own programming as much as possible. To approach every one and every situation like new, to experience the moment in the moment and truely see the situation "as is" and not with my deterministic glasses... Meaning that when looking at some picture I usually only identify what I know already. Everything I don't know, my mind is trying to make up some explanation for (ex. GOD, mysticism)... this is a biological process and amny times it's helpful. Many other times it just keeps me from seeing what really is...
So in fact "unconditioned action" is achieved in not putting together the pieces with the mind, but with the heart - with something that is not trying to analyse and finding explanations, but is taking the moment AS IS...
And this unconditioned action will most likely be the right one - suiting the situation...
No? Anyone disagree?
the best smiles are the ones you lead to
He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze long into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.
Nietzsche
Written by: Stone
Stay a robot then.
Written by: Stone
We all have the capacity for free will, though it can be difficult to acknowledge this because the deterministic driven brain is very strong.
"Moo," said the happy cow.
According to Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle of Quantum Dynamics, we may already be making love right now...
Written by: Patriarch917
Eve did not choose truth, though. She chose a lie... God had told her the truth about the fruit, but the serpent decieved her into believing a lie: that she would not die, and that she would be like God. I personally would choose the truth and eternal life, over a lie and death - any day.
Faith
Nay, whatever comes one hour was sunlit and the most high gods may not make boast of any better thing than to have watched that hour as it passed
Written by: faithinfire
first patriarch you really don't know what you would do curiousity and shame and all that
second dut i have NEVER heard that the serpent was an incarnation of God
depending on the interpretation the serpent is Satan or one of his followers, either way it was a fallen angel
Satan aspired to divinity but could not and took a host of angels with him, he has the option to redeem himself and he doesn't
from a nonchristian perspective people might consider him a god of sorts but in no way should that ever be considered in the Christian perspective. he was created, has limited knowledge, could be uncreated theoretically, definitely not all powerful
Faith
Nay, whatever comes one hour was sunlit and the most high gods may not make boast of any better thing than to have watched that hour as it passed
According to Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle of Quantum Dynamics, we may already be making love right now...
the best smiles are the ones you lead to