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spiralxveteran
1,376 posts
Location: London, UK


Posted:
I'm going to describe the isolated version as it's probably a bit easier to learn. Doing it unisolated is a bit trickier timing-wise.

I found it easier to learn in reverse by a fair way, once I had it backwards I could get the forwards one pretty quickly. If you're finding bits of this tricky try learning to do standard 5-beat weave without actually touching your arms at any point... i.e. the twisting hand curls around the other arm without making contact.

Start in reverse 5bt. On the right hand side your right arm would normally come under the left and twist around your left wrist... instead of twisting there it the poi should loop over your left arm and go in between your arms in the buzzsaw plane - so the poi head is coming towards your face.

As soon as it's in the buzzsaw plane the left poi follows it into the buzzsaw plane. To stop them wrapping around your arms/each other you need to do a barrel roll - basically rotate your arms around each other in the same direction as the poi. The timing here is the key to getting this move - you have to start the barrel roll pretty much as soon as the first poi has started doing the buzzsaw. You rotate each of your arms through 360 degrees and at the end of it you'll be on the left hand side with your right arm on top of the left... i.e. where you'd finish a normal reverse weave of any kind. Doing the barrel roll is the "untwist" part of a 5bt weave.

This is the isolated version... because your arms are never in contact the barrel roll part means the bit in the middle is an isolated buzzsaw (in fact each poi will almost be lying on the other arm at the start of it because your left hand is to the right of your right hand and vice versa). Non-isolated is just do standard wrist-touching 5bt and you have to either rotate your hands around each other instead of doing a barrel roll or have one hand sort of "jump" over the other arm... this is the notcoleman5 variant.

Forwards is pretty much the same - on the right hand side the right hand loops over the left so that poi comes up next to your face in a fowards isolated buzzsaw, roll your arms around each other forwards to exit on the left side.

To turn clockwise you need to start the turn when you're on the left side of your body (it's 5bt so you turn to the opposite side as your poi), go into the buzzsaw turning so that the barrel roll part is the middle of the turn - once you get it smooth its completely isolated throughout the turn and you can go straight back into this move.

Also while doing the barrel roll you can stop both arms, wrap and go back the other way... you can always do this with isolated buzzsaws.

*pauses for breath*

Ok, that's it. When it's smooth it looks gorgeous, a lovely corkscrew motion across your body. In fact, I'm sure you could keep it isolated all through the move... just need to get the start and end isolated.

There are other exits if you stop the barrel roll at the right point. Going backwards I can come out into a vertical airwrap (i.e. going right to left and looking left my right hand is at 12 and my left at 6 o'clock) and going forwards I can come out via a hyperloop under my arm - stop the barrel roll when your right hand is at 9 and your left at 3 o'clock again going R->L and looking left and the hyperloop goes under your left arm. Each of these should work going the other way, but it seems a lot harder... I think because they're inside->outside rather than outside->inside.

"Moo," said the happy cow.


spiralxveteran
1,376 posts
Location: London, UK


Posted:
Written by: Ðraghkyre


spiralx while doing your buzzsaw weave... do you shorten your chains alot? cause of the arm twisting, i find it necessary to bend my elbows apart & that brings the thing closer... making my chains shorter or i hit myself alot.
There any way to get around this? some special technique?
I can almost do this thing smile



It's definitely easier with shorter chains, but you don't need them. If you can do an isolated buzzsaw with your chains, you can do this... practise until the barrel roll part practically has each poi head resting on the other arm smile

"Moo," said the happy cow.


spiralxveteran
1,376 posts
Location: London, UK


Posted:
Now working on the harder version of this. What arashi would call a 5 beat inverted weave I'd imagine wink

"Moo," said the happy cow.


colemanSILVER Member
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom


Posted:
yep, as defined [Old link], the move originally described in this post is a 3bt inverted weave.

aside:

arashi said: "JEEZ, if my description wasn't good enough, why not just clarify in the thread that started it? this may seem nitpicky to any new spinners but let me tell you it gets to you after a few years. and why rename it? by now it seems a.) disrespectful b.)inconsiderate c.) the person is trying to claim they "invented" it, and i'm not even going to go there."


well, as for clarifying, i think extra threads on specific moves in a family are healthy for hop.

it shouldn't get to you arashi, it should be flattering - you could look at it as an indication of the number of people learning it...

example: how many 5bt weave help threads are there?

this thread clarifies the most basic of the moves that include a barrel roll crossover - the 'buzzsaw weaves'.

but it does it in very different language to that used to originally describe it - the result being that more people might make an attempt at learning it now.

the original buzzsaw weave post by arashi suggested this family and gave us the fundamental move in it (and much more) but (the way i see it at least) it remains as a thread to explore the variations and size of that family - further clarification on the move described in the first post would just clog that thread up imho.


i posted in that thread about the reason i think the names of these moves are fuzzy in arashi's original thread on them.


i hope i haven't caused too much upset and i was certainly not aware that i was being a) disresectful, b) inconsiderate and i am certain that i have never claimed to 'invent' anything ('discovered alone' maybe, but not 'invent' smile).


hug juggle hug

"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood


spiralxveteran
1,376 posts
Location: London, UK


Posted:
I'l agree that 3bt inverted weave is probably a better name as it suggests more variations. And I didn't post this to piss anyone off... I'd read arashi's original thread but it didn't really make an awful lot of sense so I pretty much ignored it...

"Moo," said the happy cow.


spiralxveteran
1,376 posts
Location: London, UK


Posted:
I've seen people do buzzsaws behind the back... and they take up more room than isolated buzzsaws. Should be possible, although not for me ubbloco

"Moo," said the happy cow.


RevBRONZE Member
Bastard Newbie Messiah
1,269 posts
Location: Apparently lost in my ego, USA


Posted:
buzzsaw weaves btb are easier then buzzsaws btb.. imo.. y?
1) buzzsaw weaves can be done quite easiyl isolated.
2) buzzsaw weaves can come in at a slight angle
3) buzzsaws have to be lined up properly..

maybe its just me.. but I definately find it easier doing a buzzsaw weave then say turning my buzzsaw when working btb..

More useless information courtesy of Rev...
Confusing the masses, one post at a time...
"Obviously, you're not a golfer.."- The Dude
"Buy the ticket... Take the ride..." -Raoul Duke
"FEMA has never done catastrophe planning..."-Michael Brown


RevBRONZE Member
Bastard Newbie Messiah
1,269 posts
Location: Apparently lost in my ego, USA


Posted:
yeah... btb bicep wraps will definately get those shoulders stretched out as much as they really need be for most anything..

as well as just stretching during the moves in general..

it may hurt now but give it a little time and you'll be doing it no problem.. wink

More useless information courtesy of Rev...
Confusing the masses, one post at a time...
"Obviously, you're not a golfer.."- The Dude
"Buy the ticket... Take the ride..." -Raoul Duke
"FEMA has never done catastrophe planning..."-Michael Brown


arashiPooh-Bah
2,364 posts
Location: austin,tx


Posted:
just for clarification, i've never truly been as mad as you guys think... the reason it gets to me is cause i am sick to NO END of trying to decipher text descriptions, and i figure, if i bring the family up, i can understand all the names cause you are using my language, and i won't have to waste my life staring at this frickin computer screen. that's what all my bitching is about. sometimes i wanna take a hammer to the screen, especially when the names are already there but people keep changing the language around.

-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.


Dragon7GOLD Member
addict
625 posts
Location: Aotearoa (NZ), New Zealand


Posted:
I could not agree more man, i thought the dust had setteled and everything was going real good...im not sure where it went off track. I mean people were finally starting to respect and understand other peoples terms and names, now its gone backwards, I was going to mention the origonal @3$! $37 (but i dont think anyone wants to go there again).

I think its time for people to shoot (example) 5bt buzzsaw wave wink like 20 sec and post em in the video thread, it would save a lot of confusion and mad. then u could have links to clips from threads and it would save typing out the same description over and over in different dialect's.

spiralxveteran
1,376 posts
Location: London, UK


Posted:
I will try and do so when I'm around my mate who has a digital camera and put it up somewhere smile But this is what arashi calls a 3bt inverted weave, and I now prefer that notation ubblol
EDITED_BY: spiralx (1087554142)

"Moo," said the happy cow.


colemanSILVER Member
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom


Posted:
i want to get the other variations up too cos i still don't get how they fit in with this move properly.



so i will try but as most will attest to - i am lame at making videos and getting them uploaded.



actually, iirc there was a video somewhere of icon doing this, hold on and i'll have a look...



edit:



yep smile



here's the link: 3bt buzzsaw weave



don't know if it still works cos they won't let me see at work but as far as i remember, this is a damn good example of the move.



juggle
EDITED_BY: coleman (1087561524)

"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood


colemanSILVER Member
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom


Posted:
hmmm. i must have been mistaken then - i was pretty sure that video was of a 3bt buzzsaw weave but its been a while since i saw it...



you can tell if it the same move as decribed by spiralx as it will have 5 beats in total, 3 of which are on the outside, the other 2 are cross arm isolated buzzsaw beats used to go from one side to the other.



will watch it again over the weekend and if it isn't what i thought it was, i'll try and get a video uploaded that is smile

"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood


MikeIconGOLD Member
Pooh-Bah
2,109 posts
Location: Philadelphia, PA - USA


Posted:
I believe what Im doing in that video is the 5 beat version.

Let's turn those old bridges we crossed into ashes.
We'll blaze a new trail,
and torch the rough patches.

-Me


spiralxveteran
1,376 posts
Location: London, UK


Posted:
IcoN's video is exactly what I've described above, the 3bt inverted weave smile He doesn't go into it isolated though.

"Moo," said the happy cow.


colemanSILVER Member
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom


Posted:
icon - thats what i thought too but arashi says (with good reason) that counting the beats added to the transfer by doing the buzzsaw crossover is pointless.

like i said, it should be easy to count - just count the beats on the outside.

if there are 3bt on each side its the 3bt version described in this thread, if there are 5bt outside on each side, its the 5bt version.

both transfer using the notbarrelroll thingy and both have two beats in which we are not counting.

"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood


spiralxveteran
1,376 posts
Location: London, UK


Posted:
Also if you go into this with your hands separated it's more obvious it's a 3bt - basically instead of the leading hand going to over the other arm on the other side, it's going over the other arm and into the buzzsaw. From there you can add as many beats as you want, but the entry is definitely "3 beat style".
EDITED_BY: spiralx (1087572316)

"Moo," said the happy cow.


RevBRONZE Member
Bastard Newbie Messiah
1,269 posts
Location: Apparently lost in my ego, USA


Posted:
yup exactly what I used tyo refer to as the 5bt version but now refer to as the 3bt version





and dragon.. I think what went wrong.. I showed up.. hopefulyl we'll all sit around smoke have a drink and laugh about this.. but first we all have to get together..

More useless information courtesy of Rev...
Confusing the masses, one post at a time...
"Obviously, you're not a golfer.."- The Dude
"Buy the ticket... Take the ride..." -Raoul Duke
"FEMA has never done catastrophe planning..."-Michael Brown


MikeIconGOLD Member
Pooh-Bah
2,109 posts
Location: Philadelphia, PA - USA


Posted:
Fair enuf... 3 beat it is smile

Let's turn those old bridges we crossed into ashes.
We'll blaze a new trail,
and torch the rough patches.

-Me


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