Forums > Technical Discussion > holy broken ball-chain, batman!

Posted: 9th Sep 2003
I only use ball chain these days. I replace my chains every six months though.

They DO wear out....

So much fire, so little body hair...

Posted: 9th Sep 2003
https://fire-gear.com/testing3.php

Posted: 9th Sep 2003
I just made a new set of Ball Chain poi this afternoon after school.

4 Quicklinks - 3.92
2 Packs of: 2m Ball Chain: 2 Couplings: 2 End Link Clips - 6.90
1 Metre of 1cm Wide Nylon Strap - 1.00
=11.82 + tax = 13.59

13.59 for a new set of poi, all i had to do was use the hackysacks with Keyrings in them as heads, and during raves use Glowsticks instead of hackysacks. I should make a few pairs and sell them locally for 20-30 dollars

Ladies and gentlemen, this is not a trick, this is a stunt. The difference between a stunt and a trick is that a trick is something that tricks or fools the audience, a stunt is something that only an idiot would do -Ivan, Ash Circle, 10/04/03

Posted: 11th Sep 2003
Watch those wraps. that can stress ballchain really bad. i broke a set of the 125 test ball chain from the HOP shop. i didnt get much time on the chain either.

Power percieved is power achieved.

Posted: 12th Sep 2003
The chain didn't break during a wrap.

It was just a normal spin going on at the time..

It was weird!

Raph

Posted: 13th Sep 2003
I think we need to figure out what is a good manufactuer of ball chain and who makes shitty chain. I think there is more to it breaking then just the wear and tear, I think some of it has defects probably from people cutting corners when manufactureing it.

Posted: 14th Sep 2003
ive got industrial strenght chain from the hardware store works great 1/4 inch steel is what its made from

¿

Posted: 14th Sep 2003
If you use chain just make sure the links are all individually welded, not just bent into shape. I had some nice light chain that lasted about a year then (of course) during a performance they broke. Raphael were you performing or just practicing. If you were performing I think it's a jinx or something.

Cody Canon
Controlled Burn, Reno Nevada

Posted: 14th Sep 2003
We were just practicing.

Raph

Posted: 14th Sep 2003
Cody,

You can't have welded links in Ballchain.

It's a fact that ball chain will break with time. You cant avoid it. You have to replace ball chain regularly.

Inspect your chains for wear before you spin - especially in performance!!

So much fire, so little body hair...

Posted: 29th Oct 2003
I am now offically AntiBallChain. I will always avoid the use of ballchain at all costs. Not because the ballchain can break, but because theres a lack of good connecting peices to attach ballchain onto quicklinks... I was spinning fire for hop day and half way through the day, while spinning out my chain broke up on both ends.

Ladies and gentlemen, this is not a trick, this is a stunt. The difference between a stunt and a trick is that a trick is something that tricks or fools the audience, a stunt is something that only an idiot would do -Ivan, Ash Circle, 10/04/03

Posted: 30th Oct 2003
this is why I use 250lb rated steal chain... sorry for those who like ball chain but I like somthing thats a welded piece and won't fly off and hit a passerby or land on a neighbors roof and burn their house down... to risque

But I don't want to go among mad people, Alice remarked.
Oh, you can't help that, said the Cheshire Cat: we're all mad here.
--Alice in Wonderland

Posted: 30th Oct 2003
Hm, I don't really think HOP-ball-chain is a threat is you replace it once in a while...
Though it is a shame that it just snaps.

Lucky it was not in a performance.

Posted: 30th Oct 2003
Point in fact, I've seen normal chain asrrangements break many more times during spinning as ball chain, and I've seen a lot more people using ball chain.

Zoltar is absolutely correct that you have to replace your ball chain every so often when you use it with fire (it pretty much lasts forever with practice poi or glow though, even the smaller gauges and even in brass). Be diligent about this.

here is my rule of thumb:

less than 13 gauge: do not use with fire.

13 gauge: flip chain after 25 burns, throw away after another 25.

15 gauge: flip after 50-75 burns, throw away after about 100-150.

20+ gauge: not ever seen it wear out, but replace it every so often anyway just because I like things to look new and shiny.

As for connectors, get the 'type a' variety and use a pair of pliers to crimp them permanently shut and you won't have troubles.

The one thing with ball chain is to remember to not extinguish your wicks by whacking them on the ground. This will severly shorten the life of your ball chain. Metal fatigue happens easiest when metal is hot and recieves a sharp jolt. This applies to normal chain as well really.

As with any type of equipment, it is vital to check the condition of your ball chain, quick links, poi, etc..., thoughly before any performance and at least in a coursory manner between each burn. Do this, and ball chain will treat you beautifully. neglect your equipment, and anything will eventually fail.

Ball chain is admittedly a little more delicate than other chain, but it has SOOOO many advantages that the slight extra expense and little extra amount of time you spend checking it are repaid tenfold in comparison to other types of chain. Besides, other chains require that you put a swivel in to make the poi flow smoothly, and this will become the weakest part of your poi - weaker than the ballchain, which requires no swivels since each link can spin (consequently giving by far the smoothest spin of any type of chain or cable).

Ball chain also untangles amazingly easily (if in fact you can manage to tangle it at all), and if you get stuck with flaming poi wrapped around your arm (I do a lot of wraps), it will roll right off instead of locking around you like regular chain can. For these two reasons alone, I'll never use anything but ball chain.

-v-

Wiederstand ist Zwecklos!

Posted: 30th Oct 2003

quote:

---

"put a swivel in to make the poi flow smoothly, and this will become the weakest part of your poi - weaker than the ballchain"

---

Wow?!?! Serious? My swivels are safely tested for a load of 135 kg (not by me, I'm not that heavy ), ballchains don't look that strong... I've had ballchains for a while, but when I was practicing wraps (with tennisballs ), they broke... Repaired them ofcourse, but failed again later... The Chain & the connecting peace, and I've only spun 3 times with fire with them (Lamp-oil).

They spin great, but untill I know that the ballchain as well as the connecters are strong enough I'll stick with my 135 kg (270-300 pounds or something like that) strong, regular chain

|| "Is True Mastery of the Elements But a Dream?" ||

Posted: 30th Oct 2003
What size ball chain were (are) you using? That may explain why it broke. The smaller the chain, the more likely it is to break. Also, ball chain made of something besides stainless steel is more prone to breakage as well. Where along the chain did it break? This might also help to explain why it did.

It is not the swivel itself that would cause the other variety to be weaker, just the connection point between the swivel and the chain.

I agree with Vanize that ball chain is definitely the way to go. Just be sure that you are using a ball chain large enough and stainless steel if you want to prolong the life of it.

Posted: 30th Oct 2003
use a larger gauge ballchain then, and make sure it is the steel and not the nickle plated brass.

here is a table of the gauges, their diameter (in inches and then mm) and their load rating.

#1 .072" 1.8 12lbs
#2 .082" 2.1 16lbs
#3 3/32" 2.4 20lbs
#6 1/8" 3.2 30lbs
#8 5/32" 4.0 40lbs
#10 3/16" 4.8 45lbs
#13 1/4" 6.3 90lbs
#15 5/16" 8.0 120lbs
#20 3/8" 9.5 150lbs
#30 1/2" 12.7 ---
#50 5/8" 16 ---

Actually, I have used the same length of 10 gauge brass an my practice poi for over 3 years now (and used it a lot in very punishing ways) and never once had a failure.

The only ballchain failure I did have was with 15 gauge that had seen well over 200 burns, and I am not a gentle spinner, ask Spritie or Cassandra or Dom.

if you use mondo swivels rated for a bazillion kilos, then I'm sure they will work fine - until they fatigue (especially if there are any cast parts - heat fatigues these very rapidly). You really must keep as close an eye on them as you do ballchain. like I said, I've seen a lot more failures in my time from the normal chain and swivel combo (at least 5 times that I can think of) than I have from ballchain (twice). If I factor in how often I've seen each actually spin, then in my experience I'd say it was at least 20:1 in favor of the ballchain. but that is probably because people with ballchain keep an eye on how their chain is doing and people who use normal chain probably don't pay such close attention.

there is no denying it is mechanically weaker, but it is strong enough if you select the proper gauge, and it's advantages are huge compared to normal chain. It is worth spending a few second to quickly inspect it before a performance (which is something you should be doing anyway). It is cheap (costs perhaps $1.50 to replace both chains every hundred burns or so) and easy enough to carry around spare with your spinning equipment if you get suspicious of the fatigue level.

Also, ballchian does not have the heat capacity that normal chain does - no burn marks from the chain during wraps.

but spin what you like. You'll never get me away from ballchain though.

Ballchain uber alles!!!

-v-

Wiederstand ist Zwecklos!

Posted: 31st Oct 2003
Somebody else has already put up a link to one of my pages, where I analyze ball-chain failures, but it's worth repeating here:

I don't think that the few ball-chain failures I've seen are heat-related. This is counter-intuitive, yes, but bear with me.

I've seen 2 failures with ball-chain, IIRC. One was at the hot end, one was at the cold end. Other than that, the failure mode was identical: the rod that connects the endmost ball (hidden inside the parachute connector) to the next ball snapped in the middle. I'm not sure about this, but my guess is that the rod was rocking against the edge of the connector, and this chafed and weakened the rod. Both of these were with #15 nickel-plated steel chain in #20 brass connectors. Currently, I'm using #13 SS chains, and these seem to be more popular. Stainless is much harder than plain steel, and may well resist the chafing better. Stainless is also less prone (though not immune) to "ball-spread"

Now, I've heard of other people who go through ball-chain like I go through tortilla chips, but I haven't actually seen any other failures with the chain itself.

Anyhow, use what you feel comfortable with. There's no right or wrong, there's just right for you or wrong for you.

Laugh while you can, monkey-boy