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Kyrian


Dreamer
Location: York, England

Total posts: 4308
Posted:I've started to notice a new trend, at least in america. People are starting to tell their children (and aquantinces, whatever) that there is nothing wrong with homosexuals. They are regular human beings, should be treated like it, and deserve all (well, ok, most) of the rights of a normal human being. Their (children, friends) should treat homosexuals as such.

But said (child/friend/aquantince) should not be a homosexual themselves, b/c it is not ok for them to be homosexual, just, "other people."

Anyone else seeing this? What do you think?

At the very least, I've noticed that it means the kids are still afraid of their own desires.


Keep your dream alive
Dreamin is still how the strong survive

Shalom VeAhavah

New Hampshire has a point....

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frostypaw


Great balls of fire
Location: Tunbridge Wells, Kent

Total posts: 643
Posted:quote:What shroes are refering to, where in the hell were you... hahaha WTF??

Your insaine! How long ago did Christianity arrive on what shores? How old were you? Were you even alive, if not how in the friggin world do you know how things were? My word I have never read anything so damn funny.


Now, I am going to try to be polite here, Frosty, you are a moron! I'm not just calling you names, I mean it.

You have no basis for what your saying, your just trying to put down something that you dont understand.From a man who can't even spell archaeologist that's pretty ****ing rich.

Have you heard of archaeology? Do you understand/know that there is history beyond the bible and that people have been on this planet for hundreds of thousands of years? That christianity didn't always exist?

Probably not if you believe in The Creation - ask the american indians in your own country - they've also experienced your views on what is a righteous killing and how to force a religion upon a whole nation, and various middle east countries.

you are NOT in any situation to claim victory or superior morals.

If you find this a little confusing someone will help - but if you look at the bottom of my posts it tells you where I live - the UK - christianity came here with the Romans and was enforced on the local people who were killed if they didn't denounce their old religions.

Again it's ok to kill people who aren't christian and righteous so that's ok eh?

quote:*laughs and adds a little check mark next to his name* Ray 1 HOP 0I wouldn't bet on that. Your views here could quite happily be used against you, and i'd suspect have changed a lot of people's opinion of you

It's certainly shown how much of a good "christian" you are... go read your bible about how you should treat others and have another little think about sin.

quote:Not one of you has told me why homosexuality is fine.The whole point.... raymond.... is that noone should have to.

Tis very simple. Would you ask someone to explain why a man having female friends is fine? It's a ridiculous question.

So is asking why is homosexuality fine.

quote:The outcome for an unrepented homosexual is eternal death. In my opinion.


I can SEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

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Raymund Phule (Fireproof)


Raymund Phule (Fireproof)

Enter a "Title" here:
Location: San Diego California

Total posts: 2905
Posted:Ya, Malcolm really needs to put a spell checker on here, and yes somtimes my brian moves onto the next word before my fingers get done with the current. You should see some of the interesting ways you can spell words haha

quote:
posted 10 August, 2003 01:57
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quote:
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What shroes are refering to, where in the hell were you... hahaha WTF??

Your insaine! How long ago did Christianity arrive on what shores? How old were you? Were you even alive, if not how in the friggin world do you know how things were? My word I have never read anything so damn funny.


Now, I am going to try to be polite here, Frosty, you are a moron! I'm not just calling you names, I mean it.

You have no basis for what your saying, your just trying to put down something that you dont understand.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From a man who can't even spell archaeologist that's pretty ****ing rich.

Have you heard of archaeology? Do you understand/know that there is history beyond the bible and that people have been on this planet for hundreds of thousands of years? That christianity didn't always exist?

Probably not if you believe in The Creation - ask the american indians in your own country - they've also experienced your views on what is a righteous killing and how to force a religion upon a whole nation, and various middle east countries.

you are NOT in any situation to claim victory or superior morals.

If you find this a little confusing someone will help - but if you look at the bottom of my posts it tells you where I live - the UK - christianity came here with the Romans and was enforced on the local people who were killed if they didn't denounce their old religions.

Again it's ok to kill people who aren't christian and righteous so that's ok eh?


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*laughs and adds a little check mark next to his name* Ray 1 HOP 0
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I wouldn't bet on that. Your views here could quite happily be used against you, and i'd suspect have changed a lot of people's opinion of you

It's certainly shown how much of a good "christian" you are... go read your bible about how you should treat others and have another little think about sin.
Awww did I find a button? Did I piss you off some how? You do seem angry. How does it feel to be on the recieving end of a $hit sandwhich for a change? Not exactly fun to have to defend yourself is it?

quote: Have you heard of archaeology? Do you understand/know that there is history beyond the bible and that people have been on this planet for hundreds of thousands of years? That christianity didn't always exist? Actually, archaeology, and archaeologists have proven the Bible right every time they have set out to prove it wrong. Did you know that pilars IE stone colums, have been found with names of Kings, on them. No big deal right... untill you look at the Bible, where, (comma pause for effect) they appear in the exact same order. Now before the finding, there had been no historical proof that the Bible told the truth about said Kings. Guess what, science has just proven the Bible right.

Will science ever prove what really happend in the creation of our planet and universe. I dont see it happening. Outside of religious explination there is just no way to prove what happend back when written language didnt exist, or back before the creation of man. There is just no undeniable record of what happend. That is if you use only science.

Many, if not all, religions tell about the creation of their people. Fewer tell of the creation of the whole planet. What is right and what is wrong, thats is for you to decide.


Hmm how to disprove science:

Carbon dating (this one isnt too hard): Scientists have used this tool as if it were cold hard fact. What they do is they mesure the amount of radiation that has escaped from an object throughout time.
Flaw 1. How do they know how much radiation existed in said object?

Flaw 2. How do they know that the specific object they are measuring wasing sitting in a place that for some reason drew the radiation from it more rapidly than other places.

There are more but those are pretty big holes.


Big Bang: (the easiest to disprove)

Flaw 1. An singuler explosion can push matter together in an area that has no limits. The items in an explosion would keep going in an outward patterin into infinity.

Flaw 2. What caused this explosion, where did the nessisary ingredients come from?

Primordial ooze:

Flaw 1. Oxygen needed for all life on this planet in one form or another, is also a corrosive. IE look at rust on your little brothers bike, look at the way bodies decompose, it is all due to the fault of oxidation, or oxygen stripping away whatever it is that was once there.

Now, how can life be created in an enviroment that also destroys it? Answer: it cant!

Any other theories you want to add?

There is no history beyond the Bible that can be proven. Sorry, it doesnt exist outside of theory. Theory does not prove anything because it is untested, the Bible has been put under more tests than all of the Harverd Law students combined. It has yet to fail!


quote: Probably not if you believe in The Creation - ask the american indians in your own country - they've also experienced your views on what is a righteous killing and how to force a religion upon a whole nation, and various middle east countries.

you are NOT in any situation to claim victory or superior morals.

If you find this a little confusing someone will help - but if you look at the bottom of my posts it tells you where I live - the UK - christianity came here with the Romans and was enforced on the local people who were killed if they didn't denounce their old religions.
Yep, unfortunatly mankind does get some stupid ideas in their heads. And the Church (not the Bible) has seen its share of corruption, kinda like what the Muslim Extreamests are going though now.


quote: --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Not one of you has told me why homosexuality is fine.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The whole point.... raymond.... is that noone should have to.

Tis very simple. Would you ask someone to explain why a man having female friends is fine? It's a ridiculous question.

So is asking why is homosexuality fine.
Then why in the world was I asked to explain myself? Why should I be put on the spot just because you and I dont share the same opinion? Huh? Riddle me that Batman!

quote: I wouldn't bet on that. Your views here could quite happily be used against you, and i'd suspect have changed a lot of people's opinion of you

It's certainly shown how much of a good "christian" you are... go read your bible about how you should treat others and have another little think about sin. Ohh you have intrigued me, how would someone use my views against me? My views have never been a secret. I view abortion under all circumstance to be murder, premeditated I might add. I view homosexuality as immoral and a sin.

I however, am not perfect and yes I do need to read my Bible more. Perhaps you should start.


Finally someone who shows real emotion, and doesnt wear a facade of happy dappy BS!


Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"

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Dentrassi
GOLD Member since Apr 2003

Dentrassi

ZORT!
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Total posts: 3044
Posted:hmmmmm. interesting views....when the topic drifts onto science i feel the need to post....

carbon dating is a great discussion. the trouble is that when carbon dating actually surports historical records - the dead sea scrolls are a great example - everyone embraces it and says its wonderful. however when the dating does not match up - such as the shroud of turin - the test of which said it was dated approx 1000AD (i think), the technology is condemned as groundless by religion.

the thing that is often said about physical and quantum chemistry, is the more that you understand it, the more you realise you dont. its an incredibly complicated subject ive studied for three years, and its a big call to make about carbon dating. i dont believe its perfect, but it has been independantly proved - often on egyptian remains whose dates are precisely known. in this case archeology has proven aspects of the bible - particularly the egyptians (they were fanatical time and record keepers). if carbon dating, egpytian history, and biblical texts appear to agree, its a bit hard to disprove carbon dating.

in reference to the big bang (funnily enough, a concept originally suggested by belgian priest Georges Lemaitre). sure it is a theory. theres lots of evidence that doesnt prove it beyond belief, but it IS interesting.
to me, im not convinced by either creationist or big bang theory. i havent been blown away by the proof for either.

well, i seem to have drifted off homophobia, but bringing science into it has opened up a different angle.

back to homophobia and requoting each other multiple times!! enjoy Wow! what that an entire post without an insult??


"Here kitty kitty...." - Schroedinger.

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frostypaw


Great balls of fire
Location: Tunbridge Wells, Kent

Total posts: 643
Posted:quote:Awww did I find a button? Did I piss you off some how? You do seem angry. How does it feel to be on the recieving end of a $hit sandwhich for a change? Not exactly fun to have to defend yourself is it?Huh? Do you feel like you've won a little moral victory? I've not had to eat any sandwich - mostly just stunned at a lot of what you've had to say

Some of the events from the bible have indeed been shown to be true - but that's only a few thousand years mate - where's the surprise in that? we've always known that it's based on real events but there's an awful lot more history - do you not believe in dinosaurs and fossils? in all the plate tectonics and geology that's shown how the world has changed over the years?

There's vast amounts of evidence against Creationism and to still believe that it's completely true is phenomenal.

now to your laughable 'disproving' of science:
Carbon dating - you obviously simply don't understand how this works. that doesn't mean it's wrong - it just means you don't understand. the speed at which carbon 18 breaks down Does Not Change - you can't draw more out - and there's nothing that makes more - it just continually and slowly decays making it a very effective way of measuring the age of anything.

Your holes are meerly holes in your understanding - nothings been 'disproved'

Big Bang:
quote:Flaw 1. An singuler explosion can push matter together in an area that has no limits. The items in an explosion would keep going in an outward patterin into infinity.That's exactly what they are doing you fool. What is your point?
quote:Flaw 2. What caused this explosion, where did the nessisary ingredients come from?That's not a flaw - it's just rather hard to explain, but it can be shown that it HAD to happen. It's probably happened billions of times!

Incidentally the explosion created all the ingredients - before then there was only energy. Again - just more things you don't understand.

quote:Flaw 1. Oxygen needed for all life on this planet in one form or another, is also a corrosive. IE look at rust on your little brothers bike, look at the way bodies decompose, it is all due to the fault of oxidation, or oxygen stripping away whatever it is that was once there. Not true.

Have you met my friend "the plant"?

Plants live on Carbon Dioxide, Nitrogen, Phosporous and other chemicals - they don't use oxygen at all.

There are other organisms living around deep sea vents that don't use oxygen or light to live - they rely on the cocktail of chemicals around the vent and heat.

These are just things you don't know or understand mate - nothing even vaguely "disproving science" - only proving your ignorance.

quote:There is no history beyond the Bible that can be proven. Sorry, it doesnt exist outside of theory.Allow me to introduce my friend "the fossil".

Allow me to introduce the native people of your own country - who have a huge life outside of jesus and christianity spreading back thousands of years.

quote:Ohh you have intrigued me, how would someone use my views against me? My views have never been a secret. I view abortion under all circumstance to be murder, premeditated I might add. I view homosexuality as immoral and a sin.Because they might have got the impression that you're highly judgemental, violent, potentially a rapist combining and confusing sex and violence with ease, an unrepentant bigot, capable of killing without remorse, a chauvenist who doesn't think women should be allowed control of their own bodies, uneducated and self-righteous

I'm sure you're a lovely fellow in reality - but I guess it's just not coming across in text, maybe the posts aren't well thought out - but they certainly have been consistently gobsmacking.


I can SEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

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Raymund Phule (Fireproof)


Raymund Phule (Fireproof)

Enter a "Title" here:
Location: San Diego California

Total posts: 2905
Posted:hrm... subject change again hehe

Sorry all theorys of evoloution have holes, I may not be the one to explain them but they are there.

Nobody has succeded in disproving creationisim.


quote: quote:
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Ohh you have intrigued me, how would someone use my views against me? My views have never been a secret. I view abortion under all circumstance to be murder, premeditated I might add. I view homosexuality as immoral and a sin.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Because they might have got the impression that you're highly judgemental, violent, potentially a rapist combining and confusing sex and violence with ease, an unrepentant bigot, capable of killing without remorse, a chauvenist who doesn't think women should be allowed control of their own bodies, uneducated and self-righteous
hahahahahahahaha

Wow, "highly judgemental and violent", maybe.

"Potentially a rapist, combining and confusing sex and violance with ease, an unrepentant bigot". Where did you get that from?

"Capable of killing without remorse", maybe.

"Who doesn't think women should be allowed to control of their own bodies, uneducated self righteous"... well... no

If a woman is allowed to murder just because the child isnt out of her body, then why should it be against the law to murder just because the person isnt inside your body? I believe that life begins at conception. There for it would be murder to destroy the life growing inside of her.

Uneducated, if spelling is the only way you can tell of my education, then well... ya I can see me being uneducated. Or maybe just the fact that I type at 83 words a minute makes for interesting spelling at times! Ohh and I said that I had no clue how to spell archaeologist. Thats how you spelled it, though it doesnt look right to me.

Perhaps having the ability to dissasemble and reassemble the majority of the weapons the USMC has BLIND FOLDED... that must make me friggin retarded.

[ 11. August 2003, 00:01: Message edited by: Raymund Phule ]


Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"

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frostypaw


Great balls of fire
Location: Tunbridge Wells, Kent

Total posts: 643
Posted:And nobody has disproved that the whole universe was sneezed out of the nose of the Greatest Ever Bugblatter Beast of Trawl - doesn't make it true though does it.

I can SEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

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Raymund Phule (Fireproof)


Raymund Phule (Fireproof)

Enter a "Title" here:
Location: San Diego California

Total posts: 2905
Posted:A hater and a slanderer, what will be your next feat?

Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"

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frostypaw


Great balls of fire
Location: Tunbridge Wells, Kent

Total posts: 643
Posted:That's a huge edit mister Phule.

quote:Perhaps having the ability to dissasemble and reassemble the majority of the weapons the USMC has BLIND FOLDED... that must make me friggin retarded.No - that's a skill, and it's not to be dismissed - but maybe ya don't know everything - none of us do eh?

I pointed out your spelling of archaeologist to say that perhaps you're not so familiar with the work they do and have done - so probably not prepared to tell them they're talking rubbish and god made it all.

Re the violence and sex - you've regularly swapped violence for sex and sex for violence in your arguements - they're so far from the same thing that it's kinda scary that they seem so similar to you.

but this is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay off topic.


I can SEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

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Spanner
BRONZE Member since Feb 2003

Spanner

remembers when it was all fields round here
Location: in the works... somewhere..., ...

Total posts: 2790
Posted:quote:Actually, archaeology, and archaeologists have proven the Bible right every time they have set out to prove it wrong.Reluctant as I am to enter into this debate...

The above quote made me laugh all morning. Ray, have you worked in archaeology? I have and can tell you archaeologists regularly prove the Bible wrong. It's happened so many times now it's just not news worthy anymore


"I thought you are man, but
you are nice woman.

yay,

:R"

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Raymund Phule (Fireproof)


Raymund Phule (Fireproof)

Enter a "Title" here:
Location: San Diego California

Total posts: 2905
Posted:Ya sorry I shoulda said something about it instead of swaping to the other page I hit the post button... opps


Ohh I am more than prepared to tell them that evoloution is rubbish and that God made everything. I just cant spell


Well... what sells best in the Western world? Sex and violence.


Well... if we didnt go off topic, and just kept repeating everything everyone said this topic wont make it to page 6. Yes I know we are on page 4 now but who knows how much longer till we hit page 5


Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"

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Raymund Phule (Fireproof)


Raymund Phule (Fireproof)

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Location: San Diego California

Total posts: 2905
Posted:See what I mean?

Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"

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poiaholic22


member


Total posts: 531
Posted:quote:Originally posted by Raymund Phule:

Mike has repeatedly said about his disgust for America and its government (no matter who is in office). Now this is my opinion and is not law, but I believe that in order to truly call yourself a member of a country you must have some loyalty to it. Going off of what Mike has said in the past, he has no loyalty.

Granted this is only my opinion. And why should he be loyal to a country that won't be loyal to him? I wonder to myself how the Prez's desire to codify marriage sits with the minority of servicemen and women who happen to be homosexual.Are they any less willing to die for this country?

Granted this is only my opinion.


I am not homophobic so I do find Ray's point of view slightly disturbing but I am also not fit to judge anyone so I accept it for what it is.

I am not homophobicphobic either and find it slightly disturbing that the same people who demand tolerance for a group of people would be so intolerant of those who disagree.

"To say someone is closeminded and ignorant because they don't agree with the majority is to be closeminded and ignorant"

It's interesting the conclusions you can come up with when you really think about this.

Forgiveness is a wonderful feeling to embrace.


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poiaholic22


member


Total posts: 531
Posted:quote:Originally posted by Raymund Phule:

Perhaps having the ability to dissasemble and reassemble the majority of the weapons the USMC has BLIND FOLDED... that must make me friggin retarded. Wouldn't this be more along the the lines of familiarity?

Sorry off topic.


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Dio


Dio

HoP Mechanical Engineer
Location: OK, USA

Total posts: 729
Posted:Ths issue of national loyalty is a little bit overgeneralizing... yes, the President is a devout Southern Baptist (a religion known for the minister carrying a rag to wipe the sweat off their brow during a sermon), but his opinions are not the opinions of the country. He can try to institute legislation toward his ends, but it does fall upon the representatives in government to fully approve of those proposals.

If the President's bias is supposed to represent the opinion of his entire country, how did the striking down of the anti-sodomy laws in his own home state slip by? Or the approval of gay marriages in states like Vermont?

I honestly think the situation is getting better for homosexual persons, and no matter how the hyper-conservative crowd tries to claw for whatever shreds of their old traditional beliefs they can still enforce, it's going to keep going in much the same direction. Just like equality for black citizens and women, it's a slow and ongoing process but in the end it should settle into a stable situation that everyone approves of.


What hits the fan is not evenly distributed.

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Raymund Phule (Fireproof)


Raymund Phule (Fireproof)

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Location: San Diego California

Total posts: 2905
Posted:quote: And why should he be loyal to a country that won't be loyal to him? Yep, the whole 60 million person country is against Mike.

quote: I wonder to myself how the Prez's desire to codify marriage sits with the minority of servicemen and women who happen to be homosexual.Are they any less willing to die for this country? I cant say there are no homosexuals in the military, but as of right now it is against the law to be homosexual and in the military. (I dont understand, nor do I agree with this.)

quote: I am not homophobic so I do find Ray's point of view slightly disturbing but I am also not fit to judge anyone so I accept it for what it is.
I'm not homophobic either, but I do not agree with homosexuality.


quote: quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Raymund Phule:

Perhaps having the ability to dissasemble and reassemble the majority of the weapons the USMC has BLIND FOLDED... that must make me friggin retarded.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Wouldn't this be more along the the lines of familiarity? All education really is, is familiarity with the subject.

Ask a doctor who isnt familier with the human anatomy how succesfull their practice is.

Ask a rocket scientist who knows nothing about propultion, aerodynamics, and whole hell of a bunch of other subjects, how many successfull launches they have had

Homosexuals should be treated equal, however, I will never agree that it is moral or just.


Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"

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frostypaw


Great balls of fire
Location: Tunbridge Wells, Kent

Total posts: 643
Posted:quote:I'm not homophobic either, but I do not agree with homosexuality.at least with that we're back bang on topic

speck, eye, plank.


I can SEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

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Raymund Phule (Fireproof)


Raymund Phule (Fireproof)

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Location: San Diego California

Total posts: 2905
Posted:Frosy, you dont see me trying to correct anyone do you?

I wasnt going around telling my opinion untill I was asked.

But if you really wish to take the term Plankeye, litterally then I have every right to speek on as I am not homosexual. Plankeye would mean that I was a homosexual telling other homosexuals not to be. Basically it means dont be a hypocrite.

Basically, I wouldnt be the one to judge a spelling bee


Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"

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poiaholic22


member


Total posts: 531
Posted:quote:Originally posted by Raymund Phule:


[QB] [QUOTE] And why should he be loyal to a country that won't be loyal to him? Yep, the whole 60 million person country is against Mike.


Isn't the U.S. closer to 360 million people? I could be mistaken.

Just for the sake of discussion did you not feel betrayed and unappreciated during the war when you saw and heard about all the anti-war protests going on? Even though the amount of our population against the war was only a portion of the number of our people you still weren't happy about it.

So true it isn't like the whole country is against him but when the President, the numero uno guy in this country, announces to the nation that people like Mike shouldn't have the right to seek the same happiness that others are afforded you're saying that he should just brush it off because it's only the President's opinion?

Just to clarify my opinion so as not to cause any flare-ups, I brought up the subject of loyalty because I can understand why he feels the way he does.

Respect to you all


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Raymund Phule (Fireproof)


Raymund Phule (Fireproof)

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Location: San Diego California

Total posts: 2905
Posted:Point well taken *adds a little hash mark by Poiaholics name* good job

Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"

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