Forums > Social Chat > What happened to my baby today...
Login/Join to ParticipateBRONZE Member
Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
3,989 posts
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
3,989 posts
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Posted:
Click here to see what happened to Charles' baby today...
Click here to see what happened to Charles' baby today...
HoP Posting Guidelines
* Is it the Truth?
* Is it Fair to all concerned?
* Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
* Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?
Dreamer
4,308 posts
Location: York, England
4,308 posts
Location: York, England
Posted:
Yay!v congrats Charles!
Yay!v congrats Charles!
Keep your dream alive
Dreamin is still how the strong survive
Shalom VeAhavah
New Hampshire has a point....
BRONZE Member
Sporadically Prodigal
2,758 posts
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Sporadically Prodigal
2,758 posts
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Posted:
lol.....
so, how did you find the PlastiBell method for your little one??
lol.....
so, how did you find the PlastiBell method for your little one??
HoP Posting Guidelines
Is it the Truth?
Is it Fair to all concerned?
Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?
If you can answer YES to these 4 questions then you may post a reply.
SILVER Member
100 characters max...
2,996 posts
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia
100 characters max...
2,996 posts
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Posted:
ow!!!
I'm not a boy and I'm crossing my legs!!!
ow!!!
I'm not a boy and I'm crossing my legs!!!
It was a day for screaming at inanimate objects.
What this calls for is a special mix of psychology and extreme violence...
mushroom! mushroom!
809 posts
Location: Next to my badger
809 posts
Location: Next to my badger
Posted:
so the little baby boy has a plastic....
shoved up its....
for 4 days!?!?!
Now i know why we don't remember the first few years of life. And even so i'm very grateful i was born female!!
for Jakub!
so the little baby boy has a plastic....
shoved up its....
for 4 days!?!?!
Now i know why we don't remember the first few years of life. And even so i'm very grateful i was born female!!
for Jakub!
I like this place and willingly could waste my time in it – As you like it
GOLD Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
2,617 posts
Location: Berlin, Ireland
Carpal \'Tunnel
2,617 posts
Location: Berlin, Ireland
Posted:
Cool, wish I'd had it that easy.
Cool, wish I'd had it that easy.
I live in a world of infinite possibilities.
member
279 posts
Location: Bath, UK
279 posts
Location: Bath, UK
Posted:
disgusting genital mutilation.
sorry. that's what I think.
disgusting genital mutilation.
sorry. that's what I think.
Magnus... pay it forward
BRONZE Member
Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
3,989 posts
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
3,989 posts
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Posted:
Flash...it went very well. I was present during the whole procedure, although admittedly I lost a lot of colour and thought several times about bolting out of the door.
He pretty much cried during the local and then was fine for the rest of it.
Myste... no, it's not shoved up anything really, it's placed underneath the foreskin and acts as tourniquet, instead of needing stitches.
DeepSoulSheep - Does this mean you have a bit of a story to share with us (or not)? I hope not really, but would be interested to know...
Magnus, you are, of course welcome to think that, but how about telling that to my cousin.
He had a number of infections that resulted in him having to be circumcised last year.
He was 14!!!!!
I know there are plenty of people out there who don't have any problems, but there are a reasonable group who do.
Call up your local health authority and find out how many adult or non-baby cirumcisions are performed each year. You might be a little shocked at the numbers...
Flash...it went very well. I was present during the whole procedure, although admittedly I lost a lot of colour and thought several times about bolting out of the door.
He pretty much cried during the local and then was fine for the rest of it.
Myste... no, it's not shoved up anything really, it's placed underneath the foreskin and acts as tourniquet, instead of needing stitches.
DeepSoulSheep - Does this mean you have a bit of a story to share with us (or not)? I hope not really, but would be interested to know...
Magnus, you are, of course welcome to think that, but how about telling that to my cousin.
He had a number of infections that resulted in him having to be circumcised last year.
He was 14!!!!!
I know there are plenty of people out there who don't have any problems, but there are a reasonable group who do.
Call up your local health authority and find out how many adult or non-baby cirumcisions are performed each year. You might be a little shocked at the numbers...
HoP Posting Guidelines
* Is it the Truth?
* Is it Fair to all concerned?
* Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
* Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?
member
279 posts
Location: Bath, UK
279 posts
Location: Bath, UK
Posted:
Teach your cousin to wash his penis?
Teach your cousin to wash his penis?
Magnus... pay it forward
GOLD Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
2,617 posts
Location: Berlin, Ireland
Carpal \'Tunnel
2,617 posts
Location: Berlin, Ireland
Posted:
Well I was "mulitlated" as Magnus so pleasantly puts it (subtle as ever dude ) fairly late in life and the pain was Fruitcakingly unbelievable. I think you're totally right in having it done. Cause the drawback are zero. Whereas the benefits are plently.
Every parent (I reckon) should (and generally do) try set their kids up as well as possible for when they are able to make their own choices. As long as decisions aren't going to make them worse off and lets face it, what would you want a useless piece of skin for. We don't run through nettles naked anymore.
Is getting you're tonsils out also unnecesary mutilation?
Well I was "mulitlated" as Magnus so pleasantly puts it (subtle as ever dude ) fairly late in life and the pain was Fruitcakingly unbelievable. I think you're totally right in having it done. Cause the drawback are zero. Whereas the benefits are plently.
Every parent (I reckon) should (and generally do) try set their kids up as well as possible for when they are able to make their own choices. As long as decisions aren't going to make them worse off and lets face it, what would you want a useless piece of skin for. We don't run through nettles naked anymore.
Is getting you're tonsils out also unnecesary mutilation?
I live in a world of infinite possibilities.
BRONZE Member
the henna lady
6,193 posts
Location: WNY, USA
the henna lady
6,193 posts
Location: WNY, USA
Posted:
Congrats to the family as this is obviously something you are proud of.
Did you keep the foreskin? I have run into some people who have. One lady even kept her son's in a locket
DeepSoulSheep, It's only unnecessary if it is done for no reason.
Tonsils are generally taken out (as are many body parts) only after frequent health issues are had with that part and it is concidered to be a risk or continuing issue to the well being of the person.
Circumcisions, in my opinion, should only be done in that case. I understand for the Jewish people it has some significance, and that I don't understand but can respect.
The number of people I know who are circumcised vs. not are generally split about (I never did the exact math) 60% yes and 40% no. With proper care the 40% has had no reoccuring issues, and that includes my son.
And Charles, the numbers doctors give are based on westernized notions too. Alot of men have it done because they feel women with think it "more attractive" or sexually appealing. There are also the myths that there is greater or lesser sensativity, generally an arguement for both ways, none of which can be proven. Not all non-infant circumcisions are health related. In fact, there are several that I read about which are religious conversion in nature.
I did ALOT of research (actual reading and talking to male friends) into this when Noah was younger, and decided against it, and that it is a choice for him to make. He has had no issues what-so-ever, ever, and I was told that if he was going to it would especially happen when he was in a diaper.
Yay for me being a woman!
Although it is recommended more for men who live in hot climates because of the rate of bacterial growth in those regions of the world, there is a greater likelihood of infection.
I think I am glad I was born a girl.
And, btw, the number of men not done outnumbers the amount that are, because, of course, modern statistics tend to leave out those who exist in more "tribal" and not as modern cultures.
Though if Noah, or anyone really, were to have it done, in the West Indies there is an oil/paste that is applied that deadens the foreskin and makes it whither and fall off naturally and painlessly over the course of about a week. This is how my friends brother was done and he commented he would've never had it done otherwise.
I think I know too much on the topic.
Did I mention this is one of those times that I really like being a woman?!
Congrats to the family as this is obviously something you are proud of.
Did you keep the foreskin? I have run into some people who have. One lady even kept her son's in a locket
DeepSoulSheep, It's only unnecessary if it is done for no reason.
Tonsils are generally taken out (as are many body parts) only after frequent health issues are had with that part and it is concidered to be a risk or continuing issue to the well being of the person.
Circumcisions, in my opinion, should only be done in that case. I understand for the Jewish people it has some significance, and that I don't understand but can respect.
The number of people I know who are circumcised vs. not are generally split about (I never did the exact math) 60% yes and 40% no. With proper care the 40% has had no reoccuring issues, and that includes my son.
And Charles, the numbers doctors give are based on westernized notions too. Alot of men have it done because they feel women with think it "more attractive" or sexually appealing. There are also the myths that there is greater or lesser sensativity, generally an arguement for both ways, none of which can be proven. Not all non-infant circumcisions are health related. In fact, there are several that I read about which are religious conversion in nature.
I did ALOT of research (actual reading and talking to male friends) into this when Noah was younger, and decided against it, and that it is a choice for him to make. He has had no issues what-so-ever, ever, and I was told that if he was going to it would especially happen when he was in a diaper.
Yay for me being a woman!
Although it is recommended more for men who live in hot climates because of the rate of bacterial growth in those regions of the world, there is a greater likelihood of infection.
I think I am glad I was born a girl.
And, btw, the number of men not done outnumbers the amount that are, because, of course, modern statistics tend to leave out those who exist in more "tribal" and not as modern cultures.
Though if Noah, or anyone really, were to have it done, in the West Indies there is an oil/paste that is applied that deadens the foreskin and makes it whither and fall off naturally and painlessly over the course of about a week. This is how my friends brother was done and he commented he would've never had it done otherwise.
I think I know too much on the topic.
Did I mention this is one of those times that I really like being a woman?!
Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK
member
279 posts
Location: Bath, UK
279 posts
Location: Bath, UK
Posted:
How can you say the drawbacks are zero? Tell that to my brother who has to masturbate using vaseline.
How can you say the drawbacks are zero? Tell that to my brother who has to masturbate using vaseline.
Magnus... pay it forward
SILVER Member
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
Posted:
teach your brother to attract a partner?
teach your brother to attract a partner?
"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood
GOLD Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
2,617 posts
Location: Berlin, Ireland
Carpal \'Tunnel
2,617 posts
Location: Berlin, Ireland
Posted:
I accept the tonsils thing as being different but I was told I should have mine out about 2 years ago and I was told to have my wisdom teeth out over a year ago. I don't intend on doing either because I don't deem it necessary and I don't like pain. The reason I was circumsized was because my wasn't able to pull my forskin back at the age of 11.
If my parents could have circumsized me, removed my tonsils and my wisdom teeth, when I wouldn't have felt a thing, I don't think I'd be resentfull or feel like I've missed out on something.
Magnus, your brother doesn't have to use vaseline, he just likes it that way, I'm glad you guys talk about that kinda stuff though, was he complaining about it then?
I accept the tonsils thing as being different but I was told I should have mine out about 2 years ago and I was told to have my wisdom teeth out over a year ago. I don't intend on doing either because I don't deem it necessary and I don't like pain. The reason I was circumsized was because my wasn't able to pull my forskin back at the age of 11.
If my parents could have circumsized me, removed my tonsils and my wisdom teeth, when I wouldn't have felt a thing, I don't think I'd be resentfull or feel like I've missed out on something.
Magnus, your brother doesn't have to use vaseline, he just likes it that way, I'm glad you guys talk about that kinda stuff though, was he complaining about it then?
I live in a world of infinite possibilities.
enthusiast
215 posts
Location: Madrid, Spain
215 posts
Location: Madrid, Spain
Posted:
wow, as always a fascincating topic on HoP !!
charles, congrats, here's one on the baby
i had mine done for the same cause as DSS and i have felt absolutely no drawbacks. i'm really glad i had it done at a pretty young age, people who get it done later (specially puberty) and with surgery have to go around everywhere with a bag of ice for some time, specially when women are around. you know, you dont' want the stitches blowing around
magnus, i have to agree with DSS, your brother doesn't need vaseline, just a bit of practice... well, i guess this is the right moment to stop before i give out too much information here...
wow, as always a fascincating topic on HoP !!
charles, congrats, here's one on the baby
i had mine done for the same cause as DSS and i have felt absolutely no drawbacks. i'm really glad i had it done at a pretty young age, people who get it done later (specially puberty) and with surgery have to go around everywhere with a bag of ice for some time, specially when women are around. you know, you dont' want the stitches blowing around
magnus, i have to agree with DSS, your brother doesn't need vaseline, just a bit of practice... well, i guess this is the right moment to stop before i give out too much information here...
Don't you destroy your enemy by making him your friend?? - Rev Bem (Magog), Andromeda
BRONZE Member
veteran
1,495 posts
Location: Stillwater, Ok. USA
veteran
1,495 posts
Location: Stillwater, Ok. USA
Posted:
100% all natural, yea!
100% all natural, yea!
we eat and we drink and we smoke and we try!
member
1,591 posts
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada.
1,591 posts
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada.
Posted:
I was circumcized at birth because my foreskin had not separated from my scrotum. I wish I had been luckier because I miss my foreskin. If I ever have kids I am teaching them how to wash themselves properly, not just arbitrarily chopping
their genitals up.
Why don't we remove tonsils and appendixes at birth while were at it? Because it's silly to chop babies up for no good reason unless there is immediate nescicity. Personally I believe in holding out on surgery such as wisdome teach removal and tonsil removal untill it is deemed neccesary that not removing them could cause major problems. I am kind of disturbed by this policy of chopping things out at the first sign of a problem (or at no sign of a problem, like dentists do with wisdome teeth and doctors do with babies foreskin)
I was circumcized at birth because my foreskin had not separated from my scrotum. I wish I had been luckier because I miss my foreskin. If I ever have kids I am teaching them how to wash themselves properly, not just arbitrarily chopping
their genitals up.
Why don't we remove tonsils and appendixes at birth while were at it? Because it's silly to chop babies up for no good reason unless there is immediate nescicity. Personally I believe in holding out on surgery such as wisdome teach removal and tonsil removal untill it is deemed neccesary that not removing them could cause major problems. I am kind of disturbed by this policy of chopping things out at the first sign of a problem (or at no sign of a problem, like dentists do with wisdome teeth and doctors do with babies foreskin)
Froggie ... Ribbit !!!
4,224 posts
Location: Back in Paris... for now !
4,224 posts
Location: Back in Paris... for now !
Posted:
First of all I have to say congratulations Charles since this is an important event in a religious and cultural path of life.
i have to say some of the stuff said here i found very interesting. I never thought it would raise such different opinions. but then again in france noone ever gets circumsized for other reasons than religious or emergency health issues unlike the USA.
i personnaly have nothing particularly against it be it medical or religious (allthough i am really disturbed by cultures where it is religiously done as an initiation part of a man s life when the kid turns 12 or 13
On the other hand I have the utter disrespect for excision, removal of clitoris , which is still practiced a lot in africa AND in african communities within countries like France. it is neither religious nor mdical, just a mean to kill women s desire and pleasure and tame them.
I have always tried hard to respect any costum and tradition and try NOT to let my western BIIIIG ego get in the way of "i know what is right" but that i confess has always been beyond my power to respect. in fact there are many many women within african communitie who now fight this barbaric tradition from within... Much much respect for those women
hmmm so did I get a bit off topic here ? sorry
shine on and hugs to you and your family
Cass
First of all I have to say congratulations Charles since this is an important event in a religious and cultural path of life.
i have to say some of the stuff said here i found very interesting. I never thought it would raise such different opinions. but then again in france noone ever gets circumsized for other reasons than religious or emergency health issues unlike the USA.
i personnaly have nothing particularly against it be it medical or religious (allthough i am really disturbed by cultures where it is religiously done as an initiation part of a man s life when the kid turns 12 or 13
On the other hand I have the utter disrespect for excision, removal of clitoris , which is still practiced a lot in africa AND in african communities within countries like France. it is neither religious nor mdical, just a mean to kill women s desire and pleasure and tame them.
I have always tried hard to respect any costum and tradition and try NOT to let my western BIIIIG ego get in the way of "i know what is right" but that i confess has always been beyond my power to respect. in fact there are many many women within african communitie who now fight this barbaric tradition from within... Much much respect for those women
hmmm so did I get a bit off topic here ? sorry
shine on and hugs to you and your family
Cass
"I want brown bread... no, that is diesel oil..."
"So I was raised in Europe, where History comes from ..."
"NON !!! La Plume de mon oncle n est pas Bingibangibungi !!!"
member
279 posts
Location: Bath, UK
279 posts
Location: Bath, UK
Posted:
Hmm, I wondered when someone would mention female circumsion. It's a bit different, though I agree with all Cassandra's points.
A lot of this argument is subjective. Maybe an uncut penis looks better than kidney-bean style. Maybe there is a loss of sensitivity, maybe there isn't.
There is really only one reason why foreskins get cut off in developed countries, and that's HABIT. If you were circumcised, and your father was circumcised, and your brother was circumcised, well, it's only natural that you will get your son circumcised.
But it's a hangover from a time long gone. There's no doubt that in the past it helped personal hygiene to get your foreskin cut off, and this idea (much like not eating pork) was hijacked by a bunch of religious people who gave the process a meaning it should never have had.
It just depresses me that people can't take a step back and question something that they've grown up with. eg my girlfriend has gone fox hunting since an early age, and has been brought up to believe it's ok.
If there was no such thing as circumcision, if there had been no cause in the past to do it for hygiene reasons, and if the idea hadn't been adopted by various religious groups, anyone cutting off part of their newborns penis would be locked up for child abuse, and rightly so.
Hmm, I wondered when someone would mention female circumsion. It's a bit different, though I agree with all Cassandra's points.
A lot of this argument is subjective. Maybe an uncut penis looks better than kidney-bean style. Maybe there is a loss of sensitivity, maybe there isn't.
There is really only one reason why foreskins get cut off in developed countries, and that's HABIT. If you were circumcised, and your father was circumcised, and your brother was circumcised, well, it's only natural that you will get your son circumcised.
But it's a hangover from a time long gone. There's no doubt that in the past it helped personal hygiene to get your foreskin cut off, and this idea (much like not eating pork) was hijacked by a bunch of religious people who gave the process a meaning it should never have had.
It just depresses me that people can't take a step back and question something that they've grown up with. eg my girlfriend has gone fox hunting since an early age, and has been brought up to believe it's ok.
If there was no such thing as circumcision, if there had been no cause in the past to do it for hygiene reasons, and if the idea hadn't been adopted by various religious groups, anyone cutting off part of their newborns penis would be locked up for child abuse, and rightly so.
Magnus... pay it forward
GOLD Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
2,617 posts
Location: Berlin, Ireland
Carpal \'Tunnel
2,617 posts
Location: Berlin, Ireland
Posted:
You're probably right about the if nobody had ever done it.....but to call it
You yourself have said that it's hangover from a necessity which is now redundant. Does that make it disgusting? Don't get depressed Magnus, I am very open minded and always take a step back, but...... I like being circumcised and I was circumcised out of necessity, not designer choice. We are not talking about it in the right of passage, african teenager getting 2 rocks smashed together sense.
You're probably right about the if nobody had ever done it.....but to call it
quote:is to try and put in on a par with female circumcision which is quite simply ridiculous.
disgusting genital mutilation.
You yourself have said that it's hangover from a necessity which is now redundant. Does that make it disgusting? Don't get depressed Magnus, I am very open minded and always take a step back, but...... I like being circumcised and I was circumcised out of necessity, not designer choice. We are not talking about it in the right of passage, african teenager getting 2 rocks smashed together sense.
I live in a world of infinite possibilities.
member
1,591 posts
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada.
1,591 posts
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada.
Posted:
In your case it seems we are talking about BBQ sauce on foreskin+ants rite of passage.
Resulting in wild dancing.
In your case it seems we are talking about BBQ sauce on foreskin+ants rite of passage.
Resulting in wild dancing.
Quantum Theorist
564 posts
Location: Vansterdam
564 posts
Location: Vansterdam
Posted:
I don't agree with the procedure at all. Some of you have said there are no draw backs well I can tell you there are plenty. Both my parents were nurses and I have heard lots of horror stories about it.
some facts:
- More complications ocur in life with a circumsized penis then one that isn't
- Not circumsizing is considered the healthiest way by Canadian doctors
- Now only done in Canada for religious reasons
- There is significantly less pleasure for a circumsized male durling intercourse
- The only thing with an uncircumsized penis is you must wash it with the rest of your body when you have that daily shower. That includes under the foreskin.
- the skin on the head of the penis (if circumsized) can become hard and crusty causing pain. Pain for the parter too with intercourse as tearing of the vaginal walls can occur
Myself I am 100% natural down there and plan to stay that way. And if I am blessed with a male child later in life so to will he. I personaly think that circumsizion is no different than clitorectomies (sp?) (removal of the clitorus). And i don't think any of the ladies here would want there clitorus cut off.
[ 03. July 2003, 07:23: Message edited by: DJ Dimples [Frost] ]
I don't agree with the procedure at all. Some of you have said there are no draw backs well I can tell you there are plenty. Both my parents were nurses and I have heard lots of horror stories about it.
some facts:
- More complications ocur in life with a circumsized penis then one that isn't
- Not circumsizing is considered the healthiest way by Canadian doctors
- Now only done in Canada for religious reasons
- There is significantly less pleasure for a circumsized male durling intercourse
- The only thing with an uncircumsized penis is you must wash it with the rest of your body when you have that daily shower. That includes under the foreskin.
- the skin on the head of the penis (if circumsized) can become hard and crusty causing pain. Pain for the parter too with intercourse as tearing of the vaginal walls can occur
Myself I am 100% natural down there and plan to stay that way. And if I am blessed with a male child later in life so to will he. I personaly think that circumsizion is no different than clitorectomies (sp?) (removal of the clitorus). And i don't think any of the ladies here would want there clitorus cut off.
[ 03. July 2003, 07:23: Message edited by: DJ Dimples [Frost] ]
In the 60's people took acid to make the world weird, now the world is weird and they take prozac to make it normal again.
Dreamer
4,308 posts
Location: York, England
4,308 posts
Location: York, England
Posted:
Hey magnuns.... I know a lot of guys with foreskin who still need lube to mastrubate comfortably. I also know quite a few circumcised guys who don't need lube at all. So don't make blanket generalizations, it depends on the guy.
As for whether or not it takes away from pleasure, i wonder if that's really the reason? I've certainly never heard a circumsized guy complain, and i just went to ask one and he said if he got any significant amount more pleasure during intercourse he thought he'd get off in two minutes! So.... generalizations? There's likely other explanations for people who have trouble than just the blanket fact of missing foreskin. I'm sure if a circumcision is screwed up it would cause problems, but I didn't think that's what we were talking about?
Hey magnuns.... I know a lot of guys with foreskin who still need lube to mastrubate comfortably. I also know quite a few circumcised guys who don't need lube at all. So don't make blanket generalizations, it depends on the guy.
As for whether or not it takes away from pleasure, i wonder if that's really the reason? I've certainly never heard a circumsized guy complain, and i just went to ask one and he said if he got any significant amount more pleasure during intercourse he thought he'd get off in two minutes! So.... generalizations? There's likely other explanations for people who have trouble than just the blanket fact of missing foreskin. I'm sure if a circumcision is screwed up it would cause problems, but I didn't think that's what we were talking about?
Keep your dream alive
Dreamin is still how the strong survive
Shalom VeAhavah
New Hampshire has a point....
BRONZE Member
Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
3,989 posts
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
3,989 posts
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Posted:
Heh he heh...I wasn't expecting this can of worms to open up quite so soon.
But, Have you noticed that this debate (in official medical circles) is very similar to the Genesis/Evolotion debate?
Not in the facts or the religious background, but simply from the fact that those who are arguing for or against very seldom have an open mind. They tend to have one point of view, and pursue that point with all the ammunition they have. It is such an emotive topic, that emotions are much easier to see than in other contentious arguments.
The first, as already aluded to is a totally fake statistic. There is no way to test whether a circumcised men feel less (or more!) pleasure than uncircumcised. Just as there is no way to compare pleasure levels between individuals, there just isn't any way of scientifically comparing actual pain, versus pain threshholds, versus other anatomical reasons for differing results.
And then, you need to split up the different circumcision techniques into groups, the into what ages they were performed at, the race and general demographics of each individual in the study. It is juts not possible to have any scientific result in this area as yet.
Like Pele, I did a lot of research, into health reasons, historical reasons, and also the way he might feel about it later in life, as well as the chance of it needing to be done later too.
It would pay to think on your words and what they say about your own thought processes and the people they are aimed at before posting them in the 'heat of the moment'. Just my opinion of course.
Now come on, I know that's not what you meant to say, but that it one of the premises to come out of that statement.
I'm obviously leaning towards the pro-circumcision side, but I HAVE considered many things into my decision. I find it interesting that some people believe in false statements and that they know my motiviations with barely a shred of evidence to go on.
Anyway, I look forward to continuing this debate...
Heh he heh...I wasn't expecting this can of worms to open up quite so soon.
But, Have you noticed that this debate (in official medical circles) is very similar to the Genesis/Evolotion debate?
Not in the facts or the religious background, but simply from the fact that those who are arguing for or against very seldom have an open mind. They tend to have one point of view, and pursue that point with all the ammunition they have. It is such an emotive topic, that emotions are much easier to see than in other contentious arguments.
quote:Theres quite a few more but, if you look at these statements from a anthropoligical point of view, you would see that there is no way that these can be used as 'facts'.
There is significantly less pleasure for a circumsized male durling intercourse
The first, as already aluded to is a totally fake statistic. There is no way to test whether a circumcised men feel less (or more!) pleasure than uncircumcised. Just as there is no way to compare pleasure levels between individuals, there just isn't any way of scientifically comparing actual pain, versus pain threshholds, versus other anatomical reasons for differing results.
And then, you need to split up the different circumcision techniques into groups, the into what ages they were performed at, the race and general demographics of each individual in the study. It is juts not possible to have any scientific result in this area as yet.
quote:Somyou assum, with no way of knowing, that I just blindly decided my little man, whom I love more than my life itself, should go through this procedure? You are WRONG!
It just depresses me that people can't take a step back and question something that they've grown up with.
Like Pele, I did a lot of research, into health reasons, historical reasons, and also the way he might feel about it later in life, as well as the chance of it needing to be done later too.
It would pay to think on your words and what they say about your own thought processes and the people they are aimed at before posting them in the 'heat of the moment'. Just my opinion of course.
quote:Now this really is a can of worms...Are you basing a point about circumcision on the fact that God doesn't exist, that He did not instruct his followers to circurmcise themselves and that any ritual or process used by a religious group has been 'adopted' rather than a holy instruction?
if the idea hadn't been adopted by various religious groups.
Now come on, I know that's not what you meant to say, but that it one of the premises to come out of that statement.
I'm obviously leaning towards the pro-circumcision side, but I HAVE considered many things into my decision. I find it interesting that some people believe in false statements and that they know my motiviations with barely a shred of evidence to go on.
Anyway, I look forward to continuing this debate...
HoP Posting Guidelines
* Is it the Truth?
* Is it Fair to all concerned?
* Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
* Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?
SILVER Member
15,417 posts
Location: South Wales
15,417 posts
Location: South Wales
Posted:
If you do, you do
If you dont, then I will buy you a pint.
one word: OUCH.
If you do, you do
If you dont, then I will buy you a pint.
one word: OUCH.
GOLD Member
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Posted:
We no longer recommend routine infant circumcision in the U.S. because the benefits of circumcision (decreased infection rates, decreased cancer rates) are exactly balanced by the risks of circumcision ("accidental penectomy").
However, because most men in the U.S. are circumcised, most dads want their kids circumcised. I'm circumcised because I'm Jewish.
Now, there are people who claim that it robs the penis of sensation and makes sex less pleasurable. The fact is that sex isn't just about the penis. It has been demonstrated that firing rates in the median forebrain bundle (the so-called "pleasure pathway of the brain") are identical in circumcised and uncircumcised men during intercourse.
So, while we don't recommend it (because when given 50/50 odds, you err on the side of not doing a procedure), we have no problem doing it.
We no longer recommend routine infant circumcision in the U.S. because the benefits of circumcision (decreased infection rates, decreased cancer rates) are exactly balanced by the risks of circumcision ("accidental penectomy").
However, because most men in the U.S. are circumcised, most dads want their kids circumcised. I'm circumcised because I'm Jewish.
Now, there are people who claim that it robs the penis of sensation and makes sex less pleasurable. The fact is that sex isn't just about the penis. It has been demonstrated that firing rates in the median forebrain bundle (the so-called "pleasure pathway of the brain") are identical in circumcised and uncircumcised men during intercourse.
So, while we don't recommend it (because when given 50/50 odds, you err on the side of not doing a procedure), we have no problem doing it.
-Mike
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella
A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura
BRONZE Member
Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
3,989 posts
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
3,989 posts
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Posted:
Lightning...Is that figure of 50/50 across all methods and recent/current stats.
I've looked at a number of different sets of data, most of it being from the 50's to the late 80's.
After then, a few new types of procedure, particularly turniquet style techniques (like this plastibell one on the link above), the stats seem (i never quite trust stats anyway) to show that the risks have dropped a huge percentage.
However, most studies are including the older data as part of the statistics and, especially as circumcision has dropped off (no pun intended!) remarkably in the last 15 years, the older stats will take decades to be affected by the new ones.
I'm sorry, I know I'm gabbling on with my emotions just like veryone else, but I have always found it hard to accept a blanket summary of statistics without seeing the stats myself.
Its one of my major persoanlity quirks...
Lightning...Is that figure of 50/50 across all methods and recent/current stats.
I've looked at a number of different sets of data, most of it being from the 50's to the late 80's.
After then, a few new types of procedure, particularly turniquet style techniques (like this plastibell one on the link above), the stats seem (i never quite trust stats anyway) to show that the risks have dropped a huge percentage.
However, most studies are including the older data as part of the statistics and, especially as circumcision has dropped off (no pun intended!) remarkably in the last 15 years, the older stats will take decades to be affected by the new ones.
I'm sorry, I know I'm gabbling on with my emotions just like veryone else, but I have always found it hard to accept a blanket summary of statistics without seeing the stats myself.
Its one of my major persoanlity quirks...
HoP Posting Guidelines
* Is it the Truth?
* Is it Fair to all concerned?
* Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
* Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?
member
279 posts
Location: Bath, UK
279 posts
Location: Bath, UK
Posted:
I never said there was more or less pleasure for the man.
Never said I didn't believe in God either, but surely he had reason to give men foreskins in the first place.
I never said there was more or less pleasure for the man.
Never said I didn't believe in God either, but surely he had reason to give men foreskins in the first place.
Magnus... pay it forward
addict
522 posts
Location: Berlin
522 posts
Location: Berlin
Posted:
Charles, can we move this to the war forum? hehehe...
Don't know about less pleasure for men (I wouldn't know, but I'm more than happy with my hoodless one-eyed trouser snake ) but I have heard from several reliable sources/women that it gives them more pleasure...
any pearls of wisdom ladies?
Charles, can we move this to the war forum? hehehe...
Don't know about less pleasure for men (I wouldn't know, but I'm more than happy with my hoodless one-eyed trouser snake ) but I have heard from several reliable sources/women that it gives them more pleasure...
any pearls of wisdom ladies?
Your life is ending one minute at a time...
So live it.
enthusiast
215 posts
Location: Madrid, Spain
215 posts
Location: Madrid, Spain
Posted:
charles, you sum it all up pretty well, i would just like to add some things:
- i think most of the people arguing against it don't think about the cases when it needs to be done, for example fimosis. i don't know how the treatments are now, but i think the most common think is to chop.
- the pleasure "fact", as charles said, is absurd, there are too many factors involved, and many of them are psychological, so they can vary very much.
- frost, how can you say it's no different to the removal of the clitoris?? i think there is quite a difference between removing a bit of skin that is not involved in any (proven) way in the pleasure of intercourse, and removing the main source of female sexual pleasure.
- for what KoB said, i don't believe women feel more pleasure with or without hood (hehehe,sounds like that U2 song... ), as with the erection they all look pretty much the same, or at least i think so.
- mike: "accidental penectomy"???? my god, that is not an accident, that's a CRIME!!!
charles, you sum it all up pretty well, i would just like to add some things:
- i think most of the people arguing against it don't think about the cases when it needs to be done, for example fimosis. i don't know how the treatments are now, but i think the most common think is to chop.
- the pleasure "fact", as charles said, is absurd, there are too many factors involved, and many of them are psychological, so they can vary very much.
- frost, how can you say it's no different to the removal of the clitoris?? i think there is quite a difference between removing a bit of skin that is not involved in any (proven) way in the pleasure of intercourse, and removing the main source of female sexual pleasure.
- for what KoB said, i don't believe women feel more pleasure with or without hood (hehehe,sounds like that U2 song... ), as with the erection they all look pretty much the same, or at least i think so.
- mike: "accidental penectomy"???? my god, that is not an accident, that's a CRIME!!!
Don't you destroy your enemy by making him your friend?? - Rev Bem (Magog), Andromeda
member
299 posts
299 posts
Posted:
circumsition - precarious subject.
move your fingers on the back of your hand - sensation as with circumsised penis
move your fingers in palm of hand -
sensation as with "all natural" penis
- that's how a crusader against circumsition (and a midwife/herbalist) likes to descibe the difference.
this means uncircumsised man don't quite have to bang so hard (and hurt their women) to feel good.
a friend with a son chose to have him circumsised. she said she rather had that done than risk him having to have an amputation as has happened to soldiers for example who've had to spend time in moors and jungles up to their waists.
to the ones not raising warriors - teach your sons to wash themselves.
circumsition - precarious subject.
move your fingers on the back of your hand - sensation as with circumsised penis
move your fingers in palm of hand -
sensation as with "all natural" penis
- that's how a crusader against circumsition (and a midwife/herbalist) likes to descibe the difference.
this means uncircumsised man don't quite have to bang so hard (and hurt their women) to feel good.
a friend with a son chose to have him circumsised. she said she rather had that done than risk him having to have an amputation as has happened to soldiers for example who've had to spend time in moors and jungles up to their waists.
to the ones not raising warriors - teach your sons to wash themselves.
Why?
Similar Topics
Using the keywords [happened baby today] we found the following existing topics.
- Forums > What happened to my baby today... [58 replies]
- Forums > How we can never know how God thinks... [38 replies]
Show more..
© 1998 - 2024 Home of Poi
All prices converted to United States dollars using XE.com