-Mike
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella
A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura
But there's no sense crying over every mistake. You just keep on trying till you run out of cake.
quote:actually ray quotes the creation as one of the steadfast FACTS in the bible in this thread the universe (creation and religion hi-jack)
Originally posted by Stone:
If ya take the bible literally, as for example with creationism, then the bible is full of fairy tales.
"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood
DTKB
Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, But by the moments that take our breath away.
Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"
-As angels debate chance and fate-
i was riding through melbourne on a midget giraffe, things were peachy.
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
Beauty is the conscious sum of all our perversions.-Salvador DaliHope without action is hopeless.
Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"
-Mike
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella
A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura
Fireboy
<<SINister miNISister>>
remeber kids jesus slaves
Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"
Beauty is the conscious sum of all our perversions.-Salvador DaliHope without action is hopeless.
We got the MikeZ in the house, woot!Glue the ham, hat baby!
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"
quote:Death need not be the forcing point of religion, Ray. Health, not necessarily death, also makes a great threat.
Originally posted by Raymund Phule:
This Doc is not forcing his religion on anyone, not to the point of do this or die.
-Mike
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella
A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura
quote:1. How is this relevant to the discussion?
Originally posted by Raymund Phule:
Ohh and the be muslim or die type thing isnt forcing?
Is that all life comes down to? To be lying face down with an overenthusiastic guy in pink pin-striped pants sitting on top of you and grunting? -- Random MusingsSex, Drugs and Psytrance.
quote:
Originally posted by Raymund Phule:
Wow, NYC I understand what you mean I really do. I am sure that you do not bring your views on there is no truth into the classroom, not only would it be unprofessional, but it would solidify my facorite quote from Thomas Jefferson, "The philosiphy in the school room in one gerneration will be the philosiphy of the government in the next." If you were to teach the no truth no religion philosiphy of yours you would undermind the very reason that this country was founded.
And why was this country founded exactly? I recall something about independance from a monarchy an ocean away.
Never have I ever seen anyone who pracices wicca or witchcraft ever try to convince someone to swap sides. Why? I have no clue. I have no problem with anyone no matter what religion or lack of religion they are. Like I have said in a past post one of my friends a damn good friend at that, considers himself a warlock.
Do you think this friend will go to hell? Is not magic and witchcraft a sin in the bible? Does "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live" ring any bells? Or do you disregard the portions of the bible that are inconvenient?
This Doc is not forcing his religion on anyone, not to the point of do this or die. We live in a modern world where in the US 80% of the homes have the internet and 95% have phones. If anybody really wanted to they could get a second opinion. What town is this guy from that he is the only OBGY in 350 miles? (350 is a 4 hour drive + or - a few variables) I can not believe that in our modern day in time that if somebody didnt like what he said couldnt find a Wal* Mart or another drug store and buy some medicine. I think that alot of you are making a big deal about nothing. It's not like we are talking about the only Doc within 1000 miles as if he were in a remote part of Alaska or anything.
By law, you can't buy birth control pills without a prescription. So no, you can't just go to a wall mart and buy some pills.
Please, us sitting here some complaining some defending wont accomplish anything here online.
Just like waving white flags around wont stop a war.
What the hell does this have to do with questioning the competance of a federal appointee?
Is that all life comes down to? To be lying face down with an overenthusiastic guy in pink pin-striped pants sitting on top of you and grunting? -- Random MusingsSex, Drugs and Psytrance.
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
-Mike
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella
A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura
quote:I think the populous is pretty tolerant of most things Ray, but you keep imposing your beliefs with customary missionary zeal.
The populous on this board is so open minded when it comes to whichcraft and Wicca but when someone mentions Christianity they are right winged hate full spawns of Satan.
If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh
quote:I would like to see one person force their beliefes on the "ENTIRE" US. The US is so diversified that no one ideal can be accepted by everyone. Not even the ideal on what freedome is.
With this man in charge of the reproductive health division of the FDA he has the ability to force his religious beliefs on an entire nation, and that chills me to the bone.
Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"
quote:Ray, it’s a story or a parable if you like. It has significance, but it can't be proved because it didn't happen. The world was never made in seven days.
Creation is not a theory it is what God said and did.
If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh
quote:
Originally posted by Raymund Phule:
1 post at a time....
quote:I would like to see one person force their beliefes on the "ENTIRE" US. The US is so diversified that no one ideal can be accepted by everyone. Not even the ideal on what freedome is.
With this man in charge of the reproductive health division of the FDA he has the ability to force his religious beliefs on an entire nation, and that chills me to the bone.
Ardvark, other than my terrible grammer hehe...
Once I get to my book, or maybe you can even read it "Jesus Freaks", it tells of many martyrs slain for their beliefs. Some not all mind you were slain because they were not Muslim.
Examples please. Want the converse? The spanish inquisition. The phrase conversion by the sword was pretty much defined there.
I have a fairly decent grasp of middle eastern history. Give me examples, dates, people. Not to nitpick, but you made a sweeping statement. Support it.
How is it relevent? When quoted out of context like that it seems a rather unrelevent statement. I was refering to how some religions have the tendoncy to force their religion.
Does that make it ok to do so in a country where there is a basic separation between church and state?
This country or actually the colonies that would later make up this country and then some, left England not only from tyrany and oppression but also from religios persicution.
"Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live"... what book, chapter and verse was that and please quote the text before and after it that way we may know the context please. Personally I have never heard that. My friends fate is for him to decide, not me.
King James Translation, Exodus 22:18. Alternately translated as "Thou shalt not suffer a sorcer to live" in a few other translations. I'm sure you have a bible around that you can use to get the surrounding text.
The birthcontrole pill thing I wasnt refering to, and that I did not know thanks for that bit of info. However last I knew you could buy some pretty siera hotel pain killers at local stores.
I was saying our debate was pointless, true if your point is to debate, then it has accomplished his goal but if you point was to remove this man from office then it is pretty much pointless.
NYC, I am sorry for missing your questions, I am not well known for detailed reading.
The Bible is not my God, so no but an attack on my God is , to me, an attack on me. Since I hold what is written in the Bible as God's Word then I consider an attack on it, an attack on my God and thus an attack on me. I will defend to the bitter end if needs be.
Yes the way I see it, an attack on my beliefs is an attack on me.
Mike, the national religion is Christianity, meaning the majority of the population consider themselves Christion. So... look at it from a political point of view, do you please the masses or do you please the minority? If the masses will get you re-elected then you please them, that is if you want to be re-elected.
A basic point in the american system of government is the protection of the minority from the tyrany of the majority. Why do you think the US isn't a direct democracy? Why not just have one legislative branch, etc. Its been a constant theme since the 1770's.
So Stone, your saying that Darwin was right and that we are all fish? That the Bible's "Let us make man in our likeness..." is total rubbish?
Evolution is full of holes, none of it can be proven by actual science. They are theories, Creation is not a theory it is what God said and did.
Darwin never said that. Reference, please.
Evolution is not full of holes and if you think it cant be "proven by actual science", you have no clue of what science is about.
I know a fair amount of evolutionary theory, and I'd be more than happy to refute any "holes" you care to bring up.
You don't want me to get started on Creation.
7 days of Creation, 7 days in the week. So your saying that 5 1/2 thousand years ago man knew that there were 7 days to a week without some sort of either A. precise math equations that I still can not fully comprehend or even begin to understand or B. Devine inspiration?
How about one way to a segment time, with its only real significance being that we use it today. Whats magical about having 7 days a week? Are you saying that because the Europeans conquered people using different calendars, the idea of 7 days in a week is divine? Please.
I do not think that the Bible is twisted, however I will admit that there have been some persons in the past and more than likly in the present and deffinatly in the future that have twisted the Bible to their will and corrupted the unknowing.
Exodus - God kills all the first born childern. Why? What was their sin? Because the happened to be unlucky enough to be born to the enemy?
Ex. 21:15 - And he that smiteth his father, or his mother, shall be surely put to death.
Ex. 21:17 - And he that curseth his father, or his mother, shall surely be put to death.
Mark 7:9 - 7:12 to see what Jesus thought of the above two.
Ex 22:20 - "He who sacrificeth unto any god, save unto the Lord only, he shall be utterly destroyed." What were you saying about "be muslim or die" again?
Luke 19:27 - But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.
Zecharaih 14:2 - For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
First Corinthians
14:34
Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.
14:35
And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
I can quote more, chapter and verse, all day if you want.
The writers of the Bible were twisted fucks.
As far as David Copperfield goes... you would be supriesed what someone can do when they are put to the task. Dont scoff the man on something that he has never attepted. (Yes I know you were being sarcastic and joking but you know me, I have to put my own tid bit in there.)
Is that all life comes down to? To be lying face down with an overenthusiastic guy in pink pin-striped pants sitting on top of you and grunting? -- Random MusingsSex, Drugs and Psytrance.
Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"
quote:go on ray, prove this to me! it is inaccurate under *some* circumstances but we know what these circumstances are and can tell if we can trust radio dating to the point of getting a plus minus for every dating that is made. in any case, its a sh*tload better than your 'estimation' of 'someone said there was about 2000 years here, 2000 years there so that adds up to about this for the age of the entire universe'. a laughable deduction.
Originally posted by Raymund Phule:
Actually Stone, carbon dating is inacurate and has been proven so.
quote:sorry if this sounds rude ray but that is a complete crock of sh*t. darwin is not wrong - i'm not saying he's right but his theory of evolution stands up to serious scrutiny. i'm getting fed up with you making blanket statements as if you have irrefutable evidence for your claims. most of the time you don't and, in this case, you never could have.
Originally posted by Raymund Phule:
Darwin is wrong, he even recanted all that he said, quit trying to get a rise out of me.
"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood
quote:So. To wrap up - If we don't believe in what you believe, and hold the same morality as you do, we should die and go promptly to hell.
Originally posted by Raymund Phule:
Actually Stone, carbon dating is inacurate and has been proven so. It is still used because like standerd mesurments it is something that will never be let go of. I never said the world was 5500 years old, I was using that as a base number that was actuall wrong, now that I come to think of it. It is estimated that there were 2000 years between creation and the flood, 2000 from the flood to Christs birth and 2000 years from the birth of Christ to present day well 2002 hehe. I dont know what I was thinking I do apologyse for my rash figuring of years.
No. Carbon dating is accurate to within a certain range. The farther back you go the more iffy it gets, but its hardly completely inaccurate in all cases. Its also far from the only way of doing dating of finds.
Darwin is wrong, he even recanted all that he said, quit trying to get a rise out of me.
Darwin was one person who came up with an idea. The idea did not end or stop changing and improving with him. Judging evolution by what darwin wrote over a hundred years ago, knowing a tiny fraction of what we know is silly. He also hardly recanted, but rather changed his theory. The reasons were more because he lacked the ability to explain how characteristics were passed (which we now know is due to DNA/Genes/etc), than because he found god.
You still haven't reference where Darwin said we were fish. Don't bitch about me not giving full context to biblical quotes if you put ridiculous words into people's mouths.
Have you actually read *any* Darwin?
Ardvark, what does the spanish inquisition have to do with the US, my history is a bit ruff but was the Americas even found when that was happening?
I don't know. What does "be muslim or die" have to do with anything?
There is seperation from church and state to pervent ANY religion from taking over the government like what happend in England.
Except that religeon didn't take over the government in England. The King decided that catholicism was inconvenient and went his own way.
Hmm Old Testiment law, I am not Jewish therefore I do not live by those laws, however when I do get married I will just have to beat my wife with a stick the width of my thumb... that is if I lived by Old Testiment Laws.
But you're willing to take Genesis at face value. You said it is the word of god. Exactly which parts of the old testemant do you consider the word of god. What about the rest? Was God kidding? Did he change his mind? Who decides what applies?
A number of times in the new testemant, Jesus damns people for not following the old testemant. See the Mark reference.
By the way those laws were thrown out and replaced with two new ones. "Love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind, soul, body and streangth, and love thy neigbor as yourself."
You cant have 1 legislative branch, you have 2 for the simple purpose of checks and balences. However from a political standpoint I would kiss the ass of the majority rather than squabble with the minority.
Hole #1 Primordial ooze... oxygen is the giver of life, it is also the destryer of existance. Oxidation in metals and when the human body rots it is due to... oxygen how can something as frail as our "beginging" ever withstand the very substance that gives us life?
Bodies rot because of microbes. Anaerobic microbes for the most part. Having exactly nothing to do with oxygen.
Oxygen does not give us life. Oxygen is used in our metabolic pathways -- big difference. All evidence points to the primordial ooze being in a nitrogen rich atmosphere with most of the oxygen bound. So in other words there wasn't enough free oxygen to oxidize a significant of molecules in the primordial ooze. To the best of our knowledge.
Hole #2 Big Bang... take everything you need to build a house, set it on a nuke and blow it up, how many times will you have to set the nuke off before you get it to blow up into a house? Your trying to tell me that and explosion formed the universe?
The parts of a house aren't self replicating. DNA is. This is a fact. We can see it work. TTake a bunch of proteins, put em in a jar and leave em alone with a bunch of fatty acids. Add lightning, energy and UV rays. Leave alone for billions of years. See if they form a membrane around themselves. They do. A couple (out of countless tries) got themselves self replicating. This is all conjecture, but at least we can test it in a lab and see if it works. Thats what we're talking about. That has nothing to do with the big bang, which is one conjecture on how the universe looked at the "beginning". There is a world of difference in the acceptance of evolution by natural selection and the big bang.
Blowing something up is massively different from letting compounds swim around for a couple billion years in a high energy system with lots of organic molecules around.
So basically, you know nothing about biology, physics or chemistry, but feel free to authoritatively declare that certain things are incorrect.
Actually the I do believe Aztecs have the most acurate calender, before modern science. So the evil Europians came to the South American continent area and changed their calender?
Hardly.
I'm just curious why you think that having 7 days in a week is a proof of god.
You quoted 1st Corinthians out of context, the Corenthian Church they had a problem (not to be sexist) with women babbiling through the service gossip... yadda yadda yadda, it however does not say that the practice of keeping women quiet was for the rest of the Churches.
Where did you get this from? Where does it say this in the Bible?
The 10th plague, when God says DO SOMETHING and you dont, there are reprecutions get over it. If Pharo (sp) would have listend the first time, none of it would happen.
What were the sins of the infants who died? Did *they* disobey god?
For Luke, out of context...
Oh really? I have an etext bible in front of me. What about the context makes this sentence totally different. I'm not about to start quoting pages and pages. Note that this is the New Testemant and this is supposed to be Jesus speaking. Or wait, he later said to love everyone, and this is all irrelevant, right?
Exidous 22:20... yep, thats the way it was, if you worshiped anything other than God, you died. I do recall though not the place in the Bible... the Isrialites went out to war, they were told to take nothing back with them, one man did, he held those items more important than God, becuase he disobeyd him, and his whole family, their livestock and servents were swollowed by the earth!! See that law was not to call for just the deaths of the enimy but for everyone.
Yes, according to the story.
How about Lot sending his two virgin daughters to be raped by a mob to save two angels? Genesis 19:8
Or God sending two bears to rip to shreads 42 childern who made fun of Elisha? 2 Kings 2:23-24
Or the countless rape, enslavement, and such which goes on in his name?
Yeah, all this is done to unbeliever's so its ok?
Why dont you try quoting in context, I am sure anyone can pick through Exidus, Laviticus, Numbers and Dueteronimy and find something they dont like. Or something that they think is too harsh. In the end it is still choose God or die, except when the time comes it wont just be your body dieing it will be your soul, wishing it were dead for all eternity.
Whereas you're happy to find a few points which make you feel good and feel free to disregard anything that doesn't.
What do you consider context?
Choose God or die? Does the phrase "be muslim or die" seem in the slightest way amusing now?
John 1:1 In the begining was the Word, the Word was God, the Word was with God. That quote right there gives you God the Father/Son/Holy Spirit.
Ummmm.... no. The quote you give says nothing about the Holy spirit or anything resembling the trinity.
John 3:16 For he loved the world so much that he gave his only begotton Son, and who so ever believith in Him, shall not perish but have eternal life... 3:17 For He did not come into the Earth to condem it, but to save it.
Congratulations. You're able to find a few happy points. Lets forget everything else.... until we need to find a reason to outlaw homosexuality.
Go back to your sex, drugs and psytrance, but dont you dare come up to me at the Gates and say why didnt I warn you, dont any of you say that. If you have read the above 2 scripts and dont listen to them, you will go to hell for all eternity.
Its up to you people.
Is that all life comes down to? To be lying face down with an overenthusiastic guy in pink pin-striped pants sitting on top of you and grunting? -- Random MusingsSex, Drugs and Psytrance.
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