Page: ......
The Tea FairySILVER Member
old hand
853 posts
Location: Behind you...


Posted:
Hi all

I've been studying the use of complementary therapies in palliative care for a research project at Uni. I've been looking at how these often clinically unproven therapies are being integrated into conventional medical care for the dying, the reasons for it and the benefits of it e.t.c.

One of the things I've been up to is watching a therapist give reiki treatments to patients. I started talking to the therapist afterwards about the 'energy body' and if she can see it. She says she just feels the energy, but cannot see it.

I personally would like to believe that we each have an aura or 'energy body', but at the same time I don't like buying into things without a healthy dose of scepticism also. So I was wondering what you guys all think...

If anyone also wants to argue for or against auras, or give their personal experiences with 'energy', I'm interested in whatever you guys have to say.

Cheers.

Idolized by Aurinoko

Take me disappearing through the smoke rings of my mind....

Bob Dylan


margitaSILVER Member
.:*distracted by shiny things*:.
3,777 posts
Location: brizvegas, Australia


Posted:
 Written by: jeff(fake)


 Written by: gita


is anyone else getting dizzy reading this thread? wink


I'm certainly learning a lot about the "open mindedness" and "politeness" of people who believe in auras. frown



just as i am learning a lot about the "open mindedness" and "politeness" of people who don't believe in auras.

seriously, i think most people who truly have abilities of this nature would not demonstrate them just to prove to you (or anyone else for that matter) that it is real.

i can't believe i've been sucked into this thread! arg.

all i'm trying to say is that from what i've read - i think you'll all have to agree to disagree. noone seems to be budging on their beliefs/ideas/etc, so can we stop getting narky please? ubbangel

right, i've said my two cents, i hope it gets read. cheers mates!

smile

do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and good to eat!



if at first you do succeed, try not to look too astonished!



smile! :grin: it confuses people!


Rouge DragonBRONZE Member
Insert Champagne Here
13,215 posts
Location: without class distinction, Australia


Posted:
volunteer ey? so they'd then also be biased because they volunteered? umm

and i wasn't aware we were talking about telekinesis here anyway.

i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey

Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...


jeff(fake)Scientist of Fortune
1,189 posts
Location: Edinburgh


Posted:
I'm very willing to "budge" from my beliefs.

I think I've already listed a number of measures the believers could undertake to convince me there is "something". A more rigorous situation would convice me entirely. From there we would proceed to collect our Randi money and Nobel money, shake hands with the king of Sweden, and change the world for the better.

According to Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle of Quantum Dynamics, we may already be making love right now...


Rouge DragonBRONZE Member
Insert Champagne Here
13,215 posts
Location: without class distinction, Australia


Posted:
willing to "budge" from your beliefs?

male-bovine excrement.

i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey

Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...


jeff(fake)Scientist of Fortune
1,189 posts
Location: Edinburgh


Posted:
 Written by: Rouge Dragon


volunteer ey? so they'd then also be biased because they volunteered? umm


A want ad would be placed for volunteers for a scientific experiment. They would be compansated for their time perhap with food or a small payment. smile

According to Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle of Quantum Dynamics, we may already be making love right now...


Rouge DragonBRONZE Member
Insert Champagne Here
13,215 posts
Location: without class distinction, Australia


Posted:
A psychic correct me if I am wrong, but I would think a psychic wouldn't do anything to anyone not explicitly willing because of the kind of level psychics deal with people on. We're leaving superficial levels here.

i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey

Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...


jeff(fake)Scientist of Fortune
1,189 posts
Location: Edinburgh


Posted:
 Written by: Rouge Dragon


willing to "budge" from your beliefs?


Yes. That's what it means to be a good scientist.

If Valura can perform positively in the experiment I proposed I would certainly take notice. I would probably request a follow up and a film of it, perhaps go out to conduct one myself.

If the follow ups were positive I would apply for Randi's prize, and certainly believe Valura's claim.

That's what it means to be open minded.

According to Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle of Quantum Dynamics, we may already be making love right now...


jeff(fake)Scientist of Fortune
1,189 posts
Location: Edinburgh


Posted:
 Written by: Rouge Dragon


A psychic correct me if I am wrong, but I would think a psychic wouldn't do anything to anyone not explicitly willing because of the kind of level psychics deal with people on. We're leaving superficial levels here.


The want ad or the the experimenter would then state to the persons that they had to willing to undergo "psychic" proceedures.

According to Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle of Quantum Dynamics, we may already be making love right now...


margitaSILVER Member
.:*distracted by shiny things*:.
3,777 posts
Location: brizvegas, Australia


Posted:
 Written by: jeff(fake)


If Valura can perform positively in the experiment I proposed I would certainly take notice. I would probably request a follow up and a film of it, perhaps go out to conduct one myself.

If the follow ups were positive I would apply for Randi's prize, and certainly believe Valura's claim.

That's what it means to be open minded.



i'm sure there are a few people here on hop that could vouch for valura's abilities...or you could come to oz & see for yourself. wink

why does valura have to prove herself to you? there are plenty of others out there who have these abilities. i'm sure there are plenty of articles & evidence about it out there (it's way too late & i'm way too tired to go looking right now, but i know it's been mentioned in here before).

also - is this whole thing about the stupid prize?! umm

do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and good to eat!



if at first you do succeed, try not to look too astonished!



smile! :grin: it confuses people!


jeff(fake)Scientist of Fortune
1,189 posts
Location: Edinburgh


Posted:
 Written by: gita



 Written by: jeff(fake)



If Valura can perform positively in the experiment I proposed I would certainly take notice. I would probably request a follow up and a film of it, perhaps go out to conduct one myself.



If the follow ups were positive I would apply for Randi's prize, and certainly believe Valura's claim.



That's what it means to be open minded.



i'm sure there are a few people here on hop that could vouch for valura's abilities...or you could come to oz & see for yourself. wink



why does valura have to prove herself to you? there are plenty of others out there who have these abilities. i'm sure there are plenty of articles & evidence about it out there (it's way too late & i'm way too tired to go looking right now, but i know it's been mentioned in here before).



also - is this whole thing about the stupid prize?! umm



I'm not interested in anecdotes. I want objective evidence that Valura (or anyone else) has the abilities what they describe.



To my knowledge there has been absolutely no reliable, repeatable and scientically rigorous positive test for the ability to detect auras. If anyone reading thinks they can demonstrate it, I would be willing to help. If they were authentic we could change the world for the better, which is my aim in life.



Randi's million would be a good start, but it would only be the begining. The ability to prove the existance of a paranormal phenomenon would lead to the winning of the nobel prize in multiple fields and lead to a revolution in society for the better. smile

According to Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle of Quantum Dynamics, we may already be making love right now...


Bek66Future Mrs Pogo
4,728 posts
Location: The wrong place


Posted:
Okay...I'm gonna back up, regroup and try to put this a bit more delicately and in a different form.

Example:

We all have our own individual consciousness...agreed?...that which noone other than ourselves can experience...
Noone else can feel for us, see for us, know the things that we are personally experiencing at any given moment in our lives.
Unless you're a solipsist and believe that nothing else but yourself exists, then you have to acknowledge that each of us has that individual consciousness...our own spirit.
To me, this is an amazing, wonderful, joyful thing.
It says to me that we are so much more than we realize on a day to day basis...
Just sit back and think about it for a moment...
This world that we live in is made up of so much spirit, so much wonder...how can you not believe in magick???
I will even acknowledge that you, Jeff, have this very same spirit and would submit to you to open your mind and try to develop your own inner temple...your own magick...your own personal energy.
Get to know your soul, hun.

All the rest is darkness!

ps...I am a pagan High Priestess...I believe in magick in EVERYTHING!!!

"Absence is to love what wind is to fire...it extinguishes the small, enkindles the great."
--Comte Debussy-Rebutin


jeff(fake)Scientist of Fortune
1,189 posts
Location: Edinburgh


Posted:
This subjective world is doing a darn good impersonation of being objective. smile

According to Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle of Quantum Dynamics, we may already be making love right now...


Bek66Future Mrs Pogo
4,728 posts
Location: The wrong place


Posted:
I give up...you just want to be an ass!!!

"Absence is to love what wind is to fire...it extinguishes the small, enkindles the great."
--Comte Debussy-Rebutin


jeff(fake)Scientist of Fortune
1,189 posts
Location: Edinburgh


Posted:
No, I am the darkness, offering a single candle.

According to Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle of Quantum Dynamics, we may already be making love right now...


jo_rhymesSILVER Member
Momma Bear
4,525 posts
Location: Telford, Shrops, United Kingdom


Posted:
Jeff thanks for the ideomotor theory. I have never heard it's name, but I thought it was a bit of a weird idea to "prove auras". Still, it was worth a shot.

Ok, I don't think Jeff is "being an ass". he's a scientist, and as such he needs undeniable proof that something exists.

I believe in auras, I've certainly sensed them when I've done scanning with reiki. However there is no way I can prove it.

I don't think there is any need for rudeness or anger in this thread.

hug

Hoppers are angels who lift us to our feet when our wings have trouble remembering how to fly.


ValuraSILVER Member
Mumma Hen
6,391 posts
Location: Brisbane, Australia


Posted:
Quote~ Jeff Fake

"Cue two million from Randi and the the Nobel prize committe and worldwide fame you could use to alleviate the suffering of tens of thousands. You could be a modern Ghandi"




*shakes head* there is one of the very reasons I WONT do your experiments.



I dont want to be a modern Ghandi. Im not into my ego and blowing my own trumpet.



Quote~ Jeff fake "If the follow ups were positive I would apply for Randi's prize, and certainly believe Valura's claim."



confused

Are you saying YOU would apply for PROFIT from MY gift? eek

Thats the epitome of rudeness right there. If Im not even willing to apply for this myself.. what makes you think I would do all the hardwork while you videotape, and then celebrate in one million dollars? Dude, I dont even know you and Im going to help you get one million bucks? ubblol



But jeff we hardly KNOW each other!

*flutters eyelashes*

ubblol



Seriously Jeff, I have offered proof from other psychic experiments that were conducted in a university science lab setting and they are not good enough for you...you fail to provide reasons as to why that is or even comment on the findings and demand to do you own tests on me. How come?



Do you believe that your tests will be more accurate than the ones done at the university of texas? Or is it that you will have control of perhaps what the outcomes may be? I mean randi is quoted as saying "I always have a way of getting out of paying"



Jeff is it that you want to prove such things exist or debunk them? What are your intentions there?

If you wanna prove them why dont you request information from the university of Texas? The hard work is already done for you.



Now as your claims to closemindedness on my behalf why would you think that? I have stated that I believe that we are speaking in circles gouing around and around in the same lines of discussion... why is that closeminded?



I started off by stating that I believe that science and spirit go hand in hand regarding the energy and vibration aspect of things... how could you therefore see me as closeminded? How could that be?



I would also like to point out that others have noted you being particularly harsh towards me and I have made sure I have been nothing but polite in return. confused

I was quite offended at your statements on my opinions on my abilities and have pointed that out in previous posts you have ignored, but are yet to have any type of acknowldgement from you.



Why is it I need to learn the scientific method? Batmans the scientist, not I. ubblol

TAJ "boat mummy." VALURA "yes sweetie you went on a boat, was daddy there with you?" TAJ "no, but monkey on boat" VALURA "well then sweetie, Daddy WAS there with you"


crowley2BRONZE Member
official hop cutie
272 posts
Location: Uk, Essex, Clacton


Posted:
 Written by: jeff(fake)


 Written by: Rouge Dragon


willing to "budge" from your beliefs?


Yes. That's what it means to be a good scientist.

If Valura can perform positively in the experiment I proposed I would certainly take notice. I would probably request a follow up and a film of it, perhaps go out to conduct one myself.

If the follow ups were positive I would apply for Randi's prize, and certainly believe Valura's claim.

That's what it means to be open minded.

#
eek A good scientist biggrin haha a good scientist believes anything is possible until she/he can disprove it

The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it. ~ Terry pratchett


GitasGuyPooh-Bah
2,303 posts
Location: Brisbane


Posted:
 Written by: jeff(fake)


 Written by: gita


is anyone else getting dizzy reading this thread? wink


I'm certainly learning a lot about the "open mindedness" and "politeness" of people who believe in auras. frown


I really started to get a good look at the ability of 1 person to come up with a continuous barrage of conflicting opinions to anything anyone else has to say that doesn't fit in with his "views". To the point i'd like to reach through my computer and.... Sorry your really arrogant. censored censored censored censored mad2 mad2 mad2

:admires giant wooden aeroplane: Its about time trees were good for something, instead of just standing their like jerks!!! ubblol ubbtickled

Homer rocks!!!! ubblol ubbrollsmile


jo_rhymesSILVER Member
Momma Bear
4,525 posts
Location: Telford, Shrops, United Kingdom


Posted:
GitasGuy, Jeff has not once insulted anyone.

people's views differ, that's what makes life interesting.

hug

Hoppers are angels who lift us to our feet when our wings have trouble remembering how to fly.


Pogo69SILVER Member
there's no charge for awesomeness... or attractiveness
3,764 posts
Location: limbo, Australia


Posted:
this thread is a perfect example of why I don`t spend much time in the *social discussion* section...

--pogo (pat) [forever and always]


GitasGuyPooh-Bah
2,303 posts
Location: Brisbane


Posted:
I didn't say he was insulting anyone, i've said he hasn't the ability to take on board anyone elses opinion.

:admires giant wooden aeroplane: Its about time trees were good for something, instead of just standing their like jerks!!! ubblol ubbtickled

Homer rocks!!!! ubblol ubbrollsmile


ValuraSILVER Member
Mumma Hen
6,391 posts
Location: Brisbane, Australia


Posted:
 Written by: jo_rhymes


GitasGuy, Jeff has not once insulted anyone.
hug



*Puts up hand*

Actually sweetie he insulted me... in regards to my "subconcious beliefs on my abilities"

But Im a tough wee chicken. I'll live.. biggrin ubblol ubblol

TAJ "boat mummy." VALURA "yes sweetie you went on a boat, was daddy there with you?" TAJ "no, but monkey on boat" VALURA "well then sweetie, Daddy WAS there with you"


onewheeldaveGOLD Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,252 posts
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom


Posted:
I've been following this thread and don't feel that Jeffs been insulting.

Some replies to him seem to have assumed that he's saying auras don't exist and a few have been, IMO, a little unecessarily rude.

I've defended 'alternative' views of reality, like homeopathy and energy healing, on various past HOP threads, against science supporteers who, i felt, were being a bit over-zealous and dismissive.

However, when it comes to justifying 'alternatives' via science, i feel it is very important that scientific method and protocols are strictly followed- sadly, often they are not.

Personally, i don't think homeopathy, auras or the after-life will be proven or shown to be probable, by science, in the near-future.

(Neither will they be dis-proven).

I feel the validity, or justification, for the above, lies not in scientifically trying to prove them, but in the perceived benefits they bring to those who engage in them.

Personally, I'd like to see practitioners and believers simply focusing on that, rather than, as many do, using 'pseudo-science' to try and prove them.

Using bad science or incorrect protocols, simply brings the alternative healing arts into further disrepute and, to the extent that a minority of scientists are prejudiced against them, forms part of the reason.

It's sad, but undeniable, that many, many mediums have been shown to be frauds, by the likes of Houdini who attended sceances and would reveal the apparatus used.

This does not show that all sceances are faked- simply that it is fairly easy to fake them and, that many 'mediums' have done so.

I feel that Uri Gellar, david Blaine and derran brown form an interesting scale when it comes to this issue.

All do basically the same thing, which is 'unnatural/amazing/bewildering' feats for entertainment/profit.

Gellar claimed, in his heyday when he became famous for his abiltiy to 'bend spoons', that his abitilties where paranormal.

Blaine, famous for his levitation stunt, neither seemed to claim it was real, or that it was a trick.

Brown (a UK magician/mentalist) pulls of amazing stunts, including converting a room full of stauch athiests into religious believers and making strangers fall unconscious simply by talking to them on a phone.

However, despite his incredible ability, he always maintains that his abilities are not paranormal, simply well-practised tricks. Indeed, in the past, he has made the 'secrets' available on his website.

The vast majority of 'paranormal' activities, can be reproduced, especially by those versed in conjuring (this is why is is often conjurers who do expose fake mediums).

This does not disprove the after-life, but it certainly doesn't encourage the sceptics to take it seriously.

It's important to note, that where paranormal claims are made, yet the reality is that there is no paranormal aspect, it is not necessarily the case that the practitioner is a conman/woman- often they just have an innate unconscious ability and genuinely believe in what they are doing.

(ie 'cold-reading' can achieve most of the effects of medium-ship and, while in can be done intentionally by a faker, it can also be done with no conscious intent, with the 'medium' sincerely believing that their ability is paranormal).

"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!


onewheeldaveGOLD Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,252 posts
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom


Posted:
Valura has posted a link to the 'Veritas Foundation'- an organisation endeavouring to show scientifically that the after-life is real; headed by Gary Schwartz

Here-

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Schwartz

is a link to a Wikipedia page on Schwartz.

It has a link to a scientists critisism of the protocols used, plus a link to Schwarts rebuttal/defence and a link to a response to that.

"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!


onewheeldaveGOLD Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,252 posts
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom


Posted:
I should also point out that critisism of and issues with, protocols/methodologies is not restricted to investigations into the paranormal- many a purely scientific study has fallen short of the standard required (for example, the experiments claiming to establish 'cold-fusion' ).



It's very, very difficult to ensure that a scientific study is free of flaws or innapropriate influence.

"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!


ValuraSILVER Member
Mumma Hen
6,391 posts
Location: Brisbane, Australia


Posted:
I agree that some people have been unnessacarily rude to Jeff, and thats not helpful at all.

I also agree that many mediums have been shown to be frauds in the past, but there are a great deal of good ones who have undeniable gifts and give of themsleves for the betterment of others.

I dont believe that a few bad apples should taint the others and that its a huge generalisation and very unfair to judge all mediums on the indescretions of a few.

After all there are a few huge scientific cheats and the result of those indescretions have hardly had everyone tar and feather the whole scientific world, as seems to happen when their is a medium cheat
cheating science


I feel the validity, or justification, for the above, lies not in scientifically trying to prove them, but in the perceived benefits they bring to those who engage in them.

Personally, I'd like to see practitioners and believers simply focusing on that, rather than, as many do, using 'pseudo-science' to try and prove them.


*headdesk*

Thats what I have been trying to say this whole time.ubbloco

I have faith in what I do, and so do my clients or they wouldnt return. So do my family and MANY hoppers who have been to me for readings or for treatments. The benefits that they get after the treatments that they tell me about are enough proof for me.

But when people start demanding that you are tested and yelling at you (as robnunchucks did) it becomes rather confronting. That is why I provided other expeimental examples in the hope of steering it away from being so personal toward myself. frown

I simply gave my opinion from a different perspective and have been being asked to justify myself ever since.


One thing I must say... Uri Gellar, david Blaine and derran brown, are NOT mediums.
As you say one wheel dave ~All do basically the same thing, which is 'unnatural/amazing/bewildering' feats for entertainment/profit.

Mediums shouldnt be judged on these people as they are as different as night and day when it comes to how they work.

For example, I am most distressed at the former link put up by Robnunchucks in regards to Derran Brown.
Working as a medium I find that people who are genuine fakes and do these sort of experiments are cruel and they disgust me.
Those people that Mr Brown was "fishing" were all in belief that he was doing his best to contact their passed family members, and when they found out he was conning them, that would have been incrdibly painful. How dare he hurt them like that.

There are people out there who have a need to contact passed loved ones to heal and move on with life.
To have people like THAT out there gives the gunenily gifted people a bad name. THAT MAKES ME MAD.

You cant lump mediums, cairvoyants, conjurers, tricksters, magic users like David Blaine and Cruel conmen like Derran Brown all together in the one catergory, they all do totally different things.

Thats like saying all the people who play a ball sport play soccer.

TAJ "boat mummy." VALURA "yes sweetie you went on a boat, was daddy there with you?" TAJ "no, but monkey on boat" VALURA "well then sweetie, Daddy WAS there with you"


ValuraSILVER Member
Mumma Hen
6,391 posts
Location: Brisbane, Australia


Posted:
 Written by: onewheeldave


I should also point out that critisism of and issues with, protocols/methodologies is not restricted to investigations into the paranormal- many a purely scientific study has fallen short of the standard required (for example, the experiments claiming to establish 'cold-fusion' ).

It's very, very difficult to ensure that a scientific study is free of flaws or innapropriate influence.



If that is the case then isnt the entire request of testing me a huge waste of time in the first place?

If the 'test' was very difficult to prove to be free from outside inapropiate influence, then it wouldnt be fair to either party, and I have been getting goaded into taking a test which will in the end prove NOTHING.

now thats frusterating.

TAJ "boat mummy." VALURA "yes sweetie you went on a boat, was daddy there with you?" TAJ "no, but monkey on boat" VALURA "well then sweetie, Daddy WAS there with you"


onewheeldaveGOLD Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,252 posts
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom


Posted:
 Written by: Valura




One thing I must say... Uri Gellar, david Blaine and derran brown, are NOT mediums.
As you say one wheel dave ~All do basically the same thing, which is 'unnatural/amazing/bewildering' feats for entertainment/profit.

Mediums shouldnt be judged on these people as they are as different as night and day when it comes to how they work.




However, where Gellar was concerned, he claimed that the paramormal powers he demonstrated were real.

Mediums shouldn't be judged on these people; however, IMO, it's entirely reasonable when people point out that these skills (paranormal and mediumship) can be easily faked.




 Written by: Valura





For example, I am most distressed at the former link put up by Robnunchucks in regards to Derran Brown.
Working as a medium I find that people who are genuine fakes and do these sort of experiments are cruel and they disgust me.
Those people that Mr Brown was "fishing" were all in belief that he was doing his best to contact their passed family members, and when they found out he was conning them, that would have been incrdibly painful. How dare he hurt them like that.

There are people out there who have a need to contact passed loved ones to heal and move on with life.
To have people like THAT out there gives the gunenily gifted people a bad name. THAT MAKES ME MAD.

You cant lump mediums, cairvoyants, conjurers, tricksters, magic users like David Blaine and Cruel conmen like Derran Brown all together in the one catergory, they all do totally different things.

Thats like saying all the people who play a ball sport play soccer.



From what I've seen of Derran Brown, I rate his integrity and honesty very highly.

This is a man for whom there is no doubt, had he chosen the 'Gellar' way, could have made a huge reputation and fortune, by making out that he had genuine paranormal powers.

He could, for example, have been a highly charistmatic and successful medium (a fake one).

Instead, he does his stuff, with no pretence.

What Brown (and Houdini) do/did, is very valuable.

Much as you maintain there are genuine mediums- it is undeniably true that many, are out-and-out fakes.

You maintian that they are a minority- others would say they are the majority.

Whichever it is, we all agree that some are fake (as I pointed out earlier, not necessarily intentionally so)- this means that some people are being conned.

What Brown does is to show that deceit in this field is entirely possible, hopefully encouraging some potential victims to be more discerning than they overwise might have been.

"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!


onewheeldaveGOLD Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,252 posts
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom


Posted:
 Written by: Valura


 Written by: onewheeldave


I should also point out that critisism of and issues with, protocols/methodologies is not restricted to investigations into the paranormal- many a purely scientific study has fallen short of the standard required (for example, the experiments claiming to establish 'cold-fusion' ).

It's very, very difficult to ensure that a scientific study is free of flaws or innapropriate influence.



If that is the case then isnt the entire request of testing me a huge waste of time in the first place?

If the 'test' was very difficult to prove to be free from outside inapropiate influence, then it wouldnt be fair to either party, and I have been getting goaded into taking a test which will in the end prove NOTHING.

now thats frusterating.



I'm simply pointing out that truley objective and impartial scientific testing is very difficult- more especially so when the subjects of the test are human beings.

However, many things are difficult- they can still be accomplished.

Good scientists devote their lives to ensuring that protocols and procedures are objective and fair.

Good scientists are experts on spotting the subtle ways in which a protocol may be lacking, or open to innapropriate influence.

IMO, anyone setting up a study to establish the truth of paranormal phenomena, would do well to make it an absolute priorty to get a sceptical scientist on the team, to try and spot flaws they themselves may overlook.

If they didn't consider it a priority, to do so, then, to me, that seems a bit strange.

Certainly, if I was trying to establish something, I would want someone involved from the start, whose sole job was to spot flaws in the techniques I was using.

"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!


onewheeldaveGOLD Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,252 posts
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom


Posted:
 Written by: Valura





If that is the case then isnt the entire request of testing me a huge waste of time in the first place?



If the 'test' was very difficult to prove to be free from outside inapropiate influence, then it wouldnt be fair to either party, and I have been getting goaded into taking a test which will in the end prove NOTHING.



now thats frusterating.





Much as you seem to have found Jeffs posts/suggestions to be annoying/goading, I feel that you could have got something positive out of them.



For example, his proposal that, on his understanding of your claims, that you could theoretically use the abiltiy to see auras to navigate (whilst blindfolded).



Scientifically speaking, it's not a bad suggestion.



I suspect that, for various reasons, auras can't be used for navigation- however, if you'd explained why they can't, that would have given Jeff (and other viewers of this thread) a better understanding of what auras actually are, possibly leading to more appropriate suggestions for 'testing' from Jeff and, overall, a better understanding on both sides.



In all honesty, if I'd been the target of Jeffs arguments, I'd not have felt goaded or attacked- I'd have welcomed them because it's a great opportunity to improve my ability to explain myself to people who otherwise, would remain forever ignorant of what it is I'm trying to say.

"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!


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