Forums > Social Chat > Rates of pay

Posted: 20th Aug 2002
i can make some good money just doing fire shows, not gonna tell ya how much buts its worth doing, but the downer is that however much u wanna do it the work just doesnt keep rolling through the door!..
to get enough work, means getting known, but that all depends on what market your looking at getting in to, and what you have to offer, i do stilt shows, walkabouts, statues... some mad fuctup surreal costumes.. for both mainstream clubs and for the more underground scene. then onto the fire shows.. yeah not gonna say i am an amazing spinner, i'm still learning but can do enough to make a damn good show, but fire breathing is my main show. but thats not allways a good thing to do and i wouldnt recomend it! me i'm just a head case. anyway, for people to put price tags on gigs all depends on the product being offered.
some down points if getting involved with a troupe is the money isnt as good as the random bits of work you may come accross just spinning. but if you enjoy it and not just in it for the money then its all kewl, i will be traveling for 7 hours in a car this saturday for a 4 hour gig of one stilt set and 2 fire shows for a mainstream club then 7 hours in a car back.. yeah my transport is paid for but the pay isnt good, but i enjoy it, i get to travel around the UK and the guys i work with are all fantastic and i get to take my gurl with me and she performs too, and the club loves us (14 consecutive weeks at one club.. nice deal) allways keeping it fresh new costumes each time new fire shows grinders etc best fun i ever get but will allways for the near future to pay the bills keep my day job. yeah i would admit that just performing would be kewl but aint never gonna cover my living expenses if u see what i mean.
thats my view things may be different down under, other ppl may tell you soming different other performers/ spinners alike. my view is my own these are my circumstances but i love it.
anyway hope these few lines are of some use and make some sense.

Posted: 21st Aug 2002
Thanks for the reply. It helps me alot. It would be great to be doing gigs. Im not in it for the money though it would be great. I am a performer at heart and just love it in most forms, fire twirling is just an extension of that. I am having trouble here getting quote for insurance purposes so that I can use fire at clubs and shit. Honestly fire breathing isnt something I think I wanna get into, not after reading about Pele, if someone with her experience can do that much damage imagine what an amatuer can do.

*even though she doesnt know me i still send my healing energies. *

Thanks,
Pheonix

I believe in freedom, love, truth, and beauty.

Posted: 21st Aug 2002
Also remember in order to go gigs ..no matter how good you are or how much a club owner might want to book you..you dont know the legal issues such as fire permits and liabilities and insurance you wont be able to perform...so educate yourself on those first. And of course fire safety as well as public fire safety.

And all my days are trances And all my nightly dreamsAre where thy gray eye glances And where thy footstep gleams-In what ethereal dances By what eternal streams. Edgar Allan PoeThe prophet is a fool and the religious man is fucking mad, and for the multitude of your sense and your inequity, and the great hatred......NANCY BOY

Posted: 21st Aug 2002
And don't let them rip you off. Especially bars and nightclubs!

There's an attitude that some of the owners (no matter how nice they seem) have they can get "one over on you" if you aren't a professional.

Ask for cold hard cash up front at least a day before the gig. If they can't provide as they are relying on ticket sales or other issues, then it's time to steer clear anyway.

It didn't take me long to learn that this is one of the easiest ways to tell the phoney's from the legit business people.

I can provide more info on this if you wish to email me directly

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Posted: 21st Aug 2002
first of all... I agree with Charles - just watch out for those dodgy employers who are happy to have you work hard for them and then find it near impossible to extract the money from them...
(...but mind you, for the literally hundreds of shows we've done there has only been two we never got the money for and that was because someone else was (meant to be) organising one of them...and the other we had a contract and everything but at the time I didn't have the time or energy to work with the creditors to try to extract $700 - they had gone bankrupt and it just wasn't worth it...)

You should either expect money up front (if appropriate) or at very least organise a written agreement/contract and/or deposit.

...but I think your original question was how much to charge. This is very tricky when you are starting - it takes a while to work out what is reasonable to quote - and then when you do get comfortable with it (if you do) you still waiver sometimes under pressure from really assertive (or can I just call them tight/difficult...?) clients...

I know what you'd like to hear is actual figures... when we were starting I would have loved to see a table of fees that we should charge in any given situation (still would actually).. so I'll try to give you a bit of a guide... but before I do, I guess it needs to be said that to charge professional fees you have to behave as a professional (this is no direct comment on you Pheonix, not knowing you of course - but just a bit of an explanation) - and I guess a professional performer in really general terms would - have all insurance etc required of them, have polished performance skills and experience (there's lots of ways to get experience besides launching into a full time paid performance career), present really well (including suitable costumes etc), have really good quality and safe/functioning equipment, and all the others things you'd expect eg being punctual, not ever turn up to a gig drunk/altered state etc etc....

so... what we came up with in Brisbane a few years ago in a fire performer's kind of association (it was much looser than an association but really useful for things like this) was that we agreed that we should all never quote under AUS$100/person/performance - a "performance" was for most of us about a 15-20min set (we were mostly a group of fire troupes with set shows... so this would be multiplied by the number of performers + external expenses) or at the most would be 1hour of individual freestyle (if it was this kind of work)

Since then, the consensus around Brisbane is to charge more like about $2-300/ea for this amount of time (or more for really special stuff, or big budget corporate work)... and people really do pay this all the time. You may not get it at your local club. They may even laugh in your face if you suggested it, but keep in mind other performers are commanding at least this, so it's not unusual.
This fee covers your performace time, but it also covers so much more, your training & artist development, costumes, travel, insurance etc, work cover, superannuation (if this is your only job no one else is paying into your fund!) promotion, administration (those contracts & the tax invoices etc) and countless other things...
and even though it may seem too much (especially if you are only doing it part time) the only way for this to be a well paid industry is if everyone agrees to charge well for it... high quality performers will always be able to command
high fees because they are in demand... but when you are starting (as long as you do present as a professional) you will get more respect if you do charge what other performers are charging...

so phwef... didn't mean to go on so much about it... I might go back to playing birthdays with Moon Pixie now....... finally a day off and I'm still thinking about business.... eeeeeeeeeek..

and also, after saying all that... you will have to feel it out for yourself in your own area... but since you are in Australia the dollar values may give you somethig to work with...

also you might like to check out award rates of pay for variety performers in your state and compare...

all the very best... feel free to email me - we've been doing this for quite a few years so have made plenty of mistakes along the way...*

Posted: 23rd Aug 2002
all wise words guys, taken heid of here!
even though things are different over here we dont need such things as fire permits and such like.
good luck though i hope you achieve your dreams!