Forums > Social Discussion > IRA formally end armed campaign
Login/Join to ParticipateSILVER Member
....of doom!
585 posts
Location: Hastings, UK
....of doom!
585 posts
Location: Hastings, UK
Posted:
https://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/4724599.stm
a move surely supporting the idea that talking to terrorists does work (to an extent)
https://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/4724599.stm
a move surely supporting the idea that talking to terrorists does work (to an extent)
BRONZE Member
Still wiggling
5,967 posts
Location: Belfast, Northern Ireland (UK)
Still wiggling
5,967 posts
Location: Belfast, Northern Ireland (UK)
Posted:
Sigh. There's so many issues surrounding this that the sensible thing for me to do is not post here.
But I'm not very sensible.
Firstly... you'll find many people do not consider the IRA 'terrorists' - but the definition of 'terrorist' has been discussed on these boards before.
Secondly, there is alot going on behind the scenes here.
The IRA have not been active (in regards bombing) since the RIRA carried out the Omagh bomb in 1998. Since then, Sinn Fein (republican political party) have been trying to use politics to gain ground for republicanism (with the ultimate goal of a united ireland).
Since the attacks on Sept 11, all paramilitary groups in Northern Ireland have been noticably quiet. (Considering 'Irish' Americans paid for most of the guns and weapons which found their way into this country, I suspect the funding and support has dried up.) Also, the global tolerance for 'terrorist' activity has dissolved.
As a consequence, this announcement from the IRA has been expected for a while. They were never going to go back to the armed struggle.
(Tis just a pity the loyalist thugs on the other side haven't caught up yet.)
Also - and probably more importantly - this announcement has come about because in the recent elections the vote was completely split along the extremist parties (Sinn Fein and the DUP)... the DUP (Ian Paisley) states on a regular basis that they will never 'sit down with terrorists'.
This statement (and the ongoing process of Sinn Fein leaders distancing themselves from the IRA) is the only way for progress to be made here.
We have a government building. We have elected representatives... now, finally, we might be able to get some work done.
Edit: Just in case my point isn't clear (
) - no progress has been made in this country since the IRA ceasefires... because the Unionists/DUP would not talk to Sinn Fein. It is only now, that the IRA has formally turned from violence and SF are distancing themselves that progress can be made.
Of course, it's still going to take a while for trust to be built up.
EDITED_BY: Firepoise (1122555756)
Sigh. There's so many issues surrounding this that the sensible thing for me to do is not post here.
But I'm not very sensible.
Firstly... you'll find many people do not consider the IRA 'terrorists' - but the definition of 'terrorist' has been discussed on these boards before.
Secondly, there is alot going on behind the scenes here.
The IRA have not been active (in regards bombing) since the RIRA carried out the Omagh bomb in 1998. Since then, Sinn Fein (republican political party) have been trying to use politics to gain ground for republicanism (with the ultimate goal of a united ireland).
Since the attacks on Sept 11, all paramilitary groups in Northern Ireland have been noticably quiet. (Considering 'Irish' Americans paid for most of the guns and weapons which found their way into this country, I suspect the funding and support has dried up.) Also, the global tolerance for 'terrorist' activity has dissolved.
As a consequence, this announcement from the IRA has been expected for a while. They were never going to go back to the armed struggle.
(Tis just a pity the loyalist thugs on the other side haven't caught up yet.)
Also - and probably more importantly - this announcement has come about because in the recent elections the vote was completely split along the extremist parties (Sinn Fein and the DUP)... the DUP (Ian Paisley) states on a regular basis that they will never 'sit down with terrorists'.
This statement (and the ongoing process of Sinn Fein leaders distancing themselves from the IRA) is the only way for progress to be made here.
We have a government building. We have elected representatives... now, finally, we might be able to get some work done.
Edit: Just in case my point isn't clear (
) - no progress has been made in this country since the IRA ceasefires... because the Unionists/DUP would not talk to Sinn Fein. It is only now, that the IRA has formally turned from violence and SF are distancing themselves that progress can be made. Of course, it's still going to take a while for trust to be built up.
EDITED_BY: Firepoise (1122555756)
Getting to the other side 
BRONZE Member
had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
4,145 posts
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland (UK)
had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
4,145 posts
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland (UK)
Posted:
good luck with that, Claire and everyone else in Northern Ireland 
good luck with that, Claire and everyone else in Northern Ireland "vices are like genitals - most are ugly to behold, and yet we find that our own are dear to us."
(G.W. Dahlquist)
Owner of Dragosani's left half
NYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Posted:
My knee jerk ignorant conspiracy theory thought that one of the reasons why Tony Blair spoke out so vocally after 9/11 and has stood "shoulder to shoulder" with the US against terrorism was to provoke exactly this reaction from the IRA. But I admit I know little on the subject.
Written by: Firepoise
Since the attacks on Sept 11, all paramilitary groups in Northern Ireland have been noticably quiet. (Considering 'Irish' Americans paid for most of the guns and weapons which found their way into this country, I suspect the funding and support has dried up.) Also, the global tolerance for 'terrorist' activity has dissolved.
My knee jerk ignorant conspiracy theory thought that one of the reasons why Tony Blair spoke out so vocally after 9/11 and has stood "shoulder to shoulder" with the US against terrorism was to provoke exactly this reaction from the IRA. But I admit I know little on the subject.
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
BRONZE Member
Still wiggling
5,967 posts
Location: Belfast, Northern Ireland (UK)
Still wiggling
5,967 posts
Location: Belfast, Northern Ireland (UK)
Posted:
Could very well be - it certainly didn't hurt.
Also the money
Could very well be - it certainly didn't hurt.
Also the money
Getting to the other side
BRONZE Member
Pooh-Bah
1,762 posts
Location: York University, United Kingdom
Pooh-Bah
1,762 posts
Location: York University, United Kingdom
Posted:
Firepoise, is the for squarexedge's point that talking with terrorists is good, or the news article?
It seems to me that if anyone refuses flat out to talk to anyone, then they either aren't interested in solving the problem, or they have an overwhelming belief in their own superiority. Arrogance has no place in diplomatic discussions.
See, if everyone just agreed to talk to each other, then Ireland could possibly not have got as bad as it did.
Firepoise, is the
for squarexedge's point that talking with terrorists is good, or the news article?It seems to me that if anyone refuses flat out to talk to anyone, then they either aren't interested in solving the problem, or they have an overwhelming belief in their own superiority. Arrogance has no place in diplomatic discussions.
See, if everyone just agreed to talk to each other, then Ireland could possibly not have got as bad as it did.
After much consideration, I find that the view is worth the asphyxiation.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.
SILVER Member
....of doom!
585 posts
Location: Hastings, UK
....of doom!
585 posts
Location: Hastings, UK
Posted:
there were various different words i considered using in that sentence..i decided to post using the word 'terrorist' because the actions undertaken by the IRA were and are considered by many to be terrorist actions (although probably just as many consider them to be legitimate action). it also ties in with debates in other threads as to whether we should try to talk to terrorists (freedom fighters) or just bomb the wotsits out of them.
Written by: Firepoise
Firstly... you'll find many people do not consider the IRA 'terrorists' - but the definition of 'terrorist' has been discussed on these boards before..
there were various different words i considered using in that sentence..i decided to post using the word 'terrorist' because the actions undertaken by the IRA were and are considered by many to be terrorist actions (although probably just as many consider them to be legitimate action). it also ties in with debates in other threads as to whether we should try to talk to terrorists (freedom fighters) or just bomb the wotsits out of them.
BRONZE Member
Still wiggling
5,967 posts
Location: Belfast, Northern Ireland (UK)
Still wiggling
5,967 posts
Location: Belfast, Northern Ireland (UK)
Posted:
Sethis: The was because I wasn't sure if I should get drawn into it or not.
"they have an overwhelming belief in their own superiority"
Yep, that sounds like Rev/Dr Paisley
Bear in mind these people don't talk to each other because their electorate blames the other side for the bombings and gun attacks which killed their family and friends.
As for the use of terminology - that's personal preference
EDITED_BY: Firepoise (1122559172)
Sethis: The
was because I wasn't sure if I should get drawn into it or not."they have an overwhelming belief in their own superiority"
Yep, that sounds like Rev/Dr Paisley
Bear in mind these people don't talk to each other because their electorate blames the other side for the bombings and gun attacks which killed their family and friends.
As for the use of terminology - that's personal preference
EDITED_BY: Firepoise (1122559172)
Getting to the other side
110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
3,149 posts
Location: London
3,149 posts
Location: London
Posted:
Refusing to talk to terrorists seems a reasonable policy to me.
I don't think it's wise to allow groups to gain political ground through the indiscriminate slaughter of innocent people.
Written by: Sethis
It seems to me that if anyone refuses flat out to talk to anyone, then they either aren't interested in solving the problem, or they have an overwhelming belief in their own superiority.
Refusing to talk to terrorists seems a reasonable policy to me.
I don't think it's wise to allow groups to gain political ground through the indiscriminate slaughter of innocent people.
"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."
GOLD Member
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Posted:
THe problem with terrorism is that it's uncontrollable.
The attacked can't control it, and even the terrorists can't control it.
Just watch... RIRA will still rear its ugly head, as will other splinter cells.
THe problem with terrorism is that it's uncontrollable.
The attacked can't control it, and even the terrorists can't control it.
Just watch... RIRA will still rear its ugly head, as will other splinter cells.
-Mike
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella
A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura
addict
422 posts
Location: London
422 posts
Location: London
Posted:
In my own experiance alot of the blame is put on the IRA, I am not in support of any organisation but it does seem to me that alot of people and media seem to forget that the Loyalist groups are just as guilty and have committed just as many actions of violence.
The fact that Sinn Feinn are distancing themselves from the IRA is one thing but what about the other groups??? There will always be political links to the organisations because we live in a country that has always suffered from two sides pulling at it and i think that it will end up pulling it apart.
As someone who lives in NI I dont believe it will ever get sorted out in my lifetime (thou i wish it would as i think Ireland is a beautiful country). People may think thats an awful thing to say but for 21 years all I have experianced is violance towards me and my family because of our religion as have others (on both sides). Personnally I plan to move away from NI as I dont want any kids i adopt in the future growing up here and experiancing what i have.
In my own experiance alot of the blame is put on the IRA, I am not in support of any organisation but it does seem to me that alot of people and media seem to forget that the Loyalist groups are just as guilty and have committed just as many actions of violence.
The fact that Sinn Feinn are distancing themselves from the IRA is one thing but what about the other groups??? There will always be political links to the organisations because we live in a country that has always suffered from two sides pulling at it and i think that it will end up pulling it apart.
As someone who lives in NI I dont believe it will ever get sorted out in my lifetime (thou i wish it would as i think Ireland is a beautiful country). People may think thats an awful thing to say but for 21 years all I have experianced is violance towards me and my family because of our religion as have others (on both sides). Personnally I plan to move away from NI as I dont want any kids i adopt in the future growing up here and experiancing what i have.
There are no stupid questions, only stupid answers...
BRONZE Member
Still wiggling
5,967 posts
Location: Belfast, Northern Ireland (UK)
Still wiggling
5,967 posts
Location: Belfast, Northern Ireland (UK)
Posted:
for the tainted lady
The loyalists are most certainly as guilty as the IRA - but they never courted the media and the 'romanticism' of our little war in the same way.
Doc, I really don't think the IRA or it's splinter cells (the RIRA, the CIRA are all splinters of the provisional IRA) will be back. I believe tolerance for an armed struggle has gone, and without that they have no future - nothing to hide behind (this country is too small).
Take care
x
for the tainted lady The loyalists are most certainly as guilty as the IRA - but they never courted the media and the 'romanticism' of our little war in the same way.
Doc, I really don't think the IRA or it's splinter cells (the RIRA, the CIRA are all splinters of the provisional IRA) will be back. I believe tolerance for an armed struggle has gone, and without that they have no future - nothing to hide behind (this country is too small).
Take care
x
Getting to the other side
BRONZE Member
I wear yellow on monday
551 posts
Location: Farnham Ahoy, United Kingdom
I wear yellow on monday
551 posts
Location: Farnham Ahoy, United Kingdom
Posted:
Now that the IRA is finished, at a moment in time where the whole world is pooing their pants about bombings, we should all rejoice that one other group is not about to bomb us either.
I know that Irelands main force for northern irelands liberation (for want of a better word) is now disbanded, but really should people be relying on mass bombings (like in manchester for example) to influence government? And i know that there are lots of arguments to back that up, but killing is and will always be wrong. There is still hope for ireland, but under the right way to do it, not bombing Random Billy, Jon and Charlene.
Now that the IRA is finished, at a moment in time where the whole world is pooing their pants about bombings, we should all rejoice that one other group is not about to bomb us either.
I know that Irelands main force for northern irelands liberation (for want of a better word) is now disbanded, but really should people be relying on mass bombings (like in manchester for example) to influence government? And i know that there are lots of arguments to back that up, but killing is and will always be wrong. There is still hope for ireland, but under the right way to do it, not bombing Random Billy, Jon and Charlene.
You'll find me on the dance floor
BRONZE Member
Still wiggling
5,967 posts
Location: Belfast, Northern Ireland (UK)
Still wiggling
5,967 posts
Location: Belfast, Northern Ireland (UK)
Posted:
Very true.
Essentially, this is a positive thing.
Cynics would say we have to wait and see what happens... but it's a step forward.
Very true.
Essentially, this is a positive thing.
Cynics would say we have to wait and see what happens... but it's a step forward.
Getting to the other side
addict
422 posts
Location: London
422 posts
Location: London
Posted:
Well I (just like many others) hope this is a step forward.
Well I (just like many others) hope this is a step forward.
There are no stupid questions, only stupid answers...
BRONZE Member
Pooh-Bah
1,762 posts
Location: York University, United Kingdom
Pooh-Bah
1,762 posts
Location: York University, United Kingdom
Posted:
But you are not giving them political ground, you are trying to solve the problem. If people are bombing you, I think it is slightly better to negotiate something you could do to get them to stop, rather than saying "No mercy" and getting more people killed.
Written by: simian
Refusing to talk to terrorists seems a reasonable policy to me.
I don't think it's wise to allow groups to gain political ground through the indiscriminate slaughter of innocent people.
But you are not giving them political ground, you are trying to solve the problem. If people are bombing you, I think it is slightly better to negotiate something you could do to get them to stop, rather than saying "No mercy" and getting more people killed.
After much consideration, I find that the view is worth the asphyxiation.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.
addict
422 posts
Location: London
422 posts
Location: London
Posted:
I agree with Sethis, inorder to attempt to achieve something both parties have to agree to talk. As someone who has growen up in NI and brought up a Catholic (although now im against organised religion - but thats another topic) I could very easily turn around and say
it its all the protestants fault...and support the IRA, but I dont, Im not blind both sides are just as bad as each other (although one does get more coverage than the other), but inorder to attempt to salvage any thing we need to talk and try to reach some solution tha both parties agree with.
If you are against talking to terrorists simian then how would you try and solve it? by saying to hell with it and let them blow each other up??? What about the innocent people caught up in the middle like lil firepoise, firebyrd and me???
I agree with Sethis, inorder to attempt to achieve something both parties have to agree to talk. As someone who has growen up in NI and brought up a Catholic (although now im against organised religion - but thats another topic) I could very easily turn around and say
it its all the protestants fault...and support the IRA, but I dont, Im not blind both sides are just as bad as each other (although one does get more coverage than the other), but inorder to attempt to salvage any thing we need to talk and try to reach some solution tha both parties agree with.If you are against talking to terrorists simian then how would you try and solve it? by saying to hell with it and let them blow each other up??? What about the innocent people caught up in the middle like lil firepoise, firebyrd and me???
There are no stupid questions, only stupid answers...
BRONZE Member
Still wiggling
5,967 posts
Location: Belfast, Northern Ireland (UK)
Still wiggling
5,967 posts
Location: Belfast, Northern Ireland (UK)
Posted:
I guess it's all politics.
Governments need to listen and understand the reasons behind the action, doing what they can to resolve those problems - while simultaneously not being seen to respond to the actions of extremists.
The Islamic fundamentalists are going to be more difficult to appease - but getting troops out of Iraq is certainly going to go some way to help. After that, we should wait and see.
I guess it's all politics.
Governments need to listen and understand the reasons behind the action, doing what they can to resolve those problems - while simultaneously not being seen to respond to the actions of extremists.
The Islamic fundamentalists are going to be more difficult to appease - but getting troops out of Iraq is certainly going to go some way to help. After that, we should wait and see.
Getting to the other side
addict
422 posts
Location: London
422 posts
Location: London
Posted:
just feel this thread needs a hug.
just feel this thread needs a hug. There are no stupid questions, only stupid answers...
BRONZE Member
Still wiggling
5,967 posts
Location: Belfast, Northern Ireland (UK)
Still wiggling
5,967 posts
Location: Belfast, Northern Ireland (UK)
Posted:
Getting to the other side
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