Forums > Help! > growing group, more cops, help!
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5 posts
Location: Kamloops, BC
5 posts
Location: Kamloops, BC
Posted:
The kamloops firespinner's group is still growing yearly, and now that we are some 30 people regular, and more when the paper does a story on us, we find we are attracting more police presence. we spin in a city park, permits cost money to have. any suggestions from other large groups out there?
The kamloops firespinner's group is still growing yearly, and now that we are some 30 people regular, and more when the paper does a story on us, we find we are attracting more police presence. we spin in a city park, permits cost money to have. any suggestions from other large groups out there?
SILVER Member
what goes around comes around. unless you're into stalls.
4,030 posts
Location: Bali, Australia
what goes around comes around. unless you're into stalls.
4,030 posts
Location: Bali, Australia
Posted:
Where in the world are you? It might behard for people to givce suggestions without knowing what country you're in.
Where in the world are you? It might behard for people to givce suggestions without knowing what country you're in.
.....Can't juggle balls but I sure as hell can juggle details....
AnonymousPLATINUM Member
Posted:
I think i've heard of that, isn't that in Canada?
I think i've heard of that, isn't that in Canada?
member
5 posts
Location: Kamloops, BC
5 posts
Location: Kamloops, BC
Posted:
yah guys, british columbia canada. having a hard time knowing where to go, city hall sais parks and rec, parks and rec sias fire dept. fire dept sais city hall! any leads?
yah guys, british columbia canada. having a hard time knowing where to go, city hall sais parks and rec, parks and rec sias fire dept. fire dept sais city hall! any leads?
SILVER Member
veteran
1,389 posts
Location: Guelph, ON, Canada
veteran
1,389 posts
Location: Guelph, ON, Canada
Posted:
I'd say go to all 3 departments, and figure out what they expect/want from a peaceful yet large group of fire spinners, and get it printed out in paper, and when the meets are help, take the papers with, to talk and reason with the police if/when they show up.
In my experiences with spinning in canada and cops is that they have no idea what it is, and just point a finger to someone to go to, without really knowing where we should go. It's not technically illegal, but if there's a 'concerned citizen' then we have to pack up.
Maybe when you have all the papers there to show them, you could make an agreement of sorts... Just an idea!
Good luck!
~ Bobo
I'd say go to all 3 departments, and figure out what they expect/want from a peaceful yet large group of fire spinners, and get it printed out in paper, and when the meets are help, take the papers with, to talk and reason with the police if/when they show up.
In my experiences with spinning in canada and cops is that they have no idea what it is, and just point a finger to someone to go to, without really knowing where we should go. It's not technically illegal, but if there's a 'concerned citizen' then we have to pack up.
Maybe when you have all the papers there to show them, you could make an agreement of sorts... Just an idea!
Good luck!
~ Bobo
wie weit, wie weit noch?
fragst mich, wo wir gewesen sind...
du fehlst hier
SILVER Member
That guy from Reno
556 posts
Location: Reno, Nevada USA
That guy from Reno
556 posts
Location: Reno, Nevada USA
Posted:
Get the permits. If you'd like a example of what others do here is what we have in Reno Nevada. A state fire marshal fire spinners permit, we worked with the fire marshal to develop the category. It mostly involved creating a standard fuel dump and fire safety measures. The permit requires a background check and is issued individually. This permits open flame performance. Next we have a city permit allowing us to practice in a park after dark. This permit requires each fire performer have insurance naming the city as additionally insured. We essentially rent the park every wednesday night for free, but we are responsible to keep all durgs and alcohol out of the park.
Do your best to work with them, if you can get an official looking adult spinner to do the talking, it helps.
If you can, get your BC fire marshal to call Nevada or LA fire marshals. Both permit fire spinners and could help develop standards.
Get the permits. If you'd like a example of what others do here is what we have in Reno Nevada. A state fire marshal fire spinners permit, we worked with the fire marshal to develop the category. It mostly involved creating a standard fuel dump and fire safety measures. The permit requires a background check and is issued individually. This permits open flame performance. Next we have a city permit allowing us to practice in a park after dark. This permit requires each fire performer have insurance naming the city as additionally insured. We essentially rent the park every wednesday night for free, but we are responsible to keep all durgs and alcohol out of the park.
Do your best to work with them, if you can get an official looking adult spinner to do the talking, it helps.
If you can, get your BC fire marshal to call Nevada or LA fire marshals. Both permit fire spinners and could help develop standards.
Cody Canon
Controlled Burn, Reno Nevada
member
5 posts
Location: Kamloops, BC
5 posts
Location: Kamloops, BC
Posted:
Yah I think It's a lot different in the states. My spinning buddy "Ro" and I are going out tomorrow see if we can get more info from city hall and such. some other members of our group have tryed the same approach (which seems to be the only approach)for the last 2 or 3 years, and have gotten nearly nowhere with it. city wants us to have insurance which costs an incredible amount of money. aparenty there is some kind of grant we can get, but know one seems to know what it is or where we apply. we already have permission to be in the park after it closes, but spinning with fire is the hard part. we have to spin with glow-sticks. we've followed everyones instructions and have our extinguishers there. bobo, your right about no one knowing what it is and what its about. --FRUSTRATED
Yah I think It's a lot different in the states. My spinning buddy "Ro" and I are going out tomorrow see if we can get more info from city hall and such. some other members of our group have tryed the same approach (which seems to be the only approach)for the last 2 or 3 years, and have gotten nearly nowhere with it. city wants us to have insurance which costs an incredible amount of money. aparenty there is some kind of grant we can get, but know one seems to know what it is or where we apply. we already have permission to be in the park after it closes, but spinning with fire is the hard part. we have to spin with glow-sticks. we've followed everyones instructions and have our extinguishers there. bobo, your right about no one knowing what it is and what its about. --FRUSTRATED
GOLD Member
Pooh-Bah
2,109 posts
Location: Philadelphia, PA - USA
Pooh-Bah
2,109 posts
Location: Philadelphia, PA - USA
Posted:
Sometimes, you just have to work around the cops. Its nice to be able to get permits and be legally allowed to do it but sometimes it just doesnt happen. If cops shut you down in one park, find another. The group Im in has been kicked out of a few places but we now found a spot where the cops just watch if/when they see us.
Sometimes, you just have to work around the cops. Its nice to be able to get permits and be legally allowed to do it but sometimes it just doesnt happen. If cops shut you down in one park, find another. The group Im in has been kicked out of a few places but we now found a spot where the cops just watch if/when they see us.
Let's turn those old bridges we crossed into ashes.
We'll blaze a new trail,
and torch the rough patches.
-Me
member
5 posts
Location: Kamloops, BC
5 posts
Location: Kamloops, BC
Posted:
I found a great website for guidelines to use in a proposal to city council: https://www.nafaa.org/nafaa_safety_old.html
It all pertains directly to what we do. pretty great. I'm looking for more info hopefully before morrow morning. if anyone knows what the canadian version of NFPA is that might be a help!
Icon- we did that one year. truth is most of our spinners live within walking distance, AND, Kamloops being dry and arid, most other locations are a hazard.
I found a great website for guidelines to use in a proposal to city council: https://www.nafaa.org/nafaa_safety_old.html
It all pertains directly to what we do. pretty great. I'm looking for more info hopefully before morrow morning. if anyone knows what the canadian version of NFPA is that might be a help!
Icon- we did that one year. truth is most of our spinners live within walking distance, AND, Kamloops being dry and arid, most other locations are a hazard.
SILVER Member
That guy from Reno
556 posts
Location: Reno, Nevada USA
That guy from Reno
556 posts
Location: Reno, Nevada USA
Posted:
NAFAA is why I mentioned the LA fire Marhals office. They have it down. Email Tedward the guy in charge of NAFAA he may have some stuff to send you to help the battle of getting permitted.
As for insurance, Clowns of the US is 1 million per occurance and is only $180 per year. The policies stack so if there are five of you insured for instance there is 5 million in coverage. That's not too expensive for a hoby.
NAFAA is why I mentioned the LA fire Marhals office. They have it down. Email Tedward the guy in charge of NAFAA he may have some stuff to send you to help the battle of getting permitted.
As for insurance, Clowns of the US is 1 million per occurance and is only $180 per year. The policies stack so if there are five of you insured for instance there is 5 million in coverage. That's not too expensive for a hoby.
Cody Canon
Controlled Burn, Reno Nevada
BRONZE Member
Pooh-Bah
1,872 posts
Location: Canada
Pooh-Bah
1,872 posts
Location: Canada
Posted:
All we do here in Victoria,,,is just be nice to the cops when they show up. We show them the fuel, what' we're doing, mention the open discouragement of alcohol consumption, and tell them it's not as dangerous as it looks. So far, it's worked great.
But,,,,if the cops are responding to a complaint, be it for noise or whatever, they're obligated to show up and deal with it in which case, it may be easier to just leave quietly and come back next week. This doesn't work during fire bans though.
Have you picked a spot where the grass in the park is watered regularly? that's something I mention to the cops too, it eases their catching the whole park on fire fears.
Two years ago I tried the city hall, parks department, firemarshall,,,yada, yada route and the message I got was something like...We don't want to deal with you,,,, we don't know how to deal with you,,,,,,, maybe sometime in the near future, we may think about dealing with you,,,,,, but for now please go away and quit bothering us.
So I just dropped it and the only problems we've had have been drumming related, more specifically drumming and trying to sing like Bono,,,hopefully that guy won't show up again
All we do here in Victoria,,,is just be nice to the cops when they show up. We show them the fuel, what' we're doing, mention the open discouragement of alcohol consumption, and tell them it's not as dangerous as it looks. So far, it's worked great.
But,,,,if the cops are responding to a complaint, be it for noise or whatever, they're obligated to show up and deal with it in which case, it may be easier to just leave quietly and come back next week. This doesn't work during fire bans though.
Have you picked a spot where the grass in the park is watered regularly? that's something I mention to the cops too, it eases their catching the whole park on fire fears.
Two years ago I tried the city hall, parks department, firemarshall,,,yada, yada route and the message I got was something like...We don't want to deal with you,,,, we don't know how to deal with you,,,,,,, maybe sometime in the near future, we may think about dealing with you,,,,,, but for now please go away and quit bothering us.
So I just dropped it and the only problems we've had have been drumming related, more specifically drumming and trying to sing like Bono,,,hopefully that guy won't show up again
member
5 posts
Location: Kamloops, BC
5 posts
Location: Kamloops, BC
Posted:
Yah, we have done anything the police, and in some cases the fire dept has asked us over the years. we alredy follow all but 2 of the regulations stated by NAFAA, and we didnt even know it existed till yesterday! just last friday outa no where 2 cops showed up and told us to put the fire out. It's no secret how we operate. when the police do come, I'm up on my feet and out there talking to them. I'm sure they all KNOW by now that firespinning is not nearly as dangerous as it seems. I think whats intimidating them is the size of the group. kinda the 'lets nip this in the bud before it gets outa hand for us' mentality going on with our police force.
Yah, we have done anything the police, and in some cases the fire dept has asked us over the years. we alredy follow all but 2 of the regulations stated by NAFAA, and we didnt even know it existed till yesterday! just last friday outa no where 2 cops showed up and told us to put the fire out. It's no secret how we operate. when the police do come, I'm up on my feet and out there talking to them. I'm sure they all KNOW by now that firespinning is not nearly as dangerous as it seems. I think whats intimidating them is the size of the group. kinda the 'lets nip this in the bud before it gets outa hand for us' mentality going on with our police force.
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