Forums > Social Chat > Mainstream Fire Art

Posted: 30th Nov 2003
In my opinion, I think it would be bad if it did become mainstream. People wouldn't appreciate it. It wouldn't be a thing of passion, it would be a way to show off and get attention. Anything that goes mainstream seems to become corrupt or dulled completely. Fire spinning is my special thing where I can feel alive next to dancing around a drum circle. I don't want that taken away and I feel it would if it became mainstream.

If love is all and love is everyone. Is it knowing? Is it knowing?!

Posted: 1st Dec 2003
I agree with you munchkin... It does take the individuality and specialness away from it. Just like most things that are unique, they somehow transform into fashion statements, and that is a bit sad . I work in a fire gear and drum shop, and I've observed that over time, more and more people purchasing the equipment are not particularly interested in the art of it, but rather 'the image'.

However, I also feel that it is so wonderful that people of all ages are getting out of the house, not just sitting around watching television doing something active. It brings people together I guess... and thats a great thing!

Posted: 1st Dec 2003
er.



i think it's nearly already there.



and:

i don't mind.



it makes me more employable



but more importantly those who love it will always remain unique.

and like most fads it'll pass methinks amongst the 'cool' kids.



wouldn't mind being wrong tho.





R
EDITED_BY: bluecat (1070265731)

Holistic Spinner (I hope)

Posted: 1st Dec 2003
hmm i don't know if it would become mainstream, it takes so much passion and comittment to learn that most people will veer away. I've had so many people ask me to teach them how to spin after seeing me spin and they're excited for that one night, but ask them to practice consistently and daily, and most people will not have enough interest, not to mention be scared to burn themselves. The fear of fire is another thing that will keep most people away.

stay lit

Posted: 1st Dec 2003
aaah but look at skateboarding/snowboarding.

exactly the same stage about 15-20 years ago.

i think there are enough people who will learn just for one day to produce a swiftly growing more addicted population. just look at this site as an example!!!

i joined (under original name) less than two years ago and was number 1555. now there are 6000 members and more every day!

and there are baby sites all over the place.

and more and more performers creating more interest creating more growth etcetcetc..

no?


R

Holistic Spinner (I hope)

Posted: 1st Dec 2003
Bad.

I think everyone who has spun in public likes the attention you get (the magnetic attraction small children have for beamers not withstanding). What would it be like if there was just a "not another bloody spinner/staffer/firebreather" attitude?

There is a slight possibility that I am not actually right all of the time.

Posted: 1st Dec 2003
Ok but 6000 ppl isn't that much considering this is the (IMO) most famous site in the world.. Tho I have to agree on some points... It won't be very nice if our art becomes mainstream... I have taught people how to spin. Some are already at my level and some can't get the weave right... It really depends on the people and if it ever DOES become mainstream, who really cares? It will fade after a while and those true to the art before will be true to the art after... It will only take some ( a lot of ) self-control to llive through that ugly mainstream phase

Smile.. It confuses people..:)

Wonders never cease as long as you never cease to wonder.

Posted: 1st Dec 2003
true.

but most spinners i know aren't on hop....


espescially in edinburgh and in non english speaking countries...



but yes you are right. but i can't help but think its mushrooming.....


R

Holistic Spinner (I hope)

Posted: 1st Dec 2003
Frankly i wouldn't mind at all - Myself and a friend are about the only people in the entire country who do poi, which makes inspiration a bit hard to come by.
Added to that, internet is sooo slow here downloading videos is out of the question...
Maybe if the poi craze hit here we could get six, or even seven people to do it...

Don't worry, be happy...

Posted: 1st Dec 2003
Honestly I have a hard time understanding peoples opposition to it being mainstream. You say it's a fashion statement blah blah blah. so what, if you enjoy it the whole world doing it shouldn't change your perception of it as an art. Unless your basic enjoyment comes from showing off, in which case I don't know what to say, I don't think theres anything nesscarily wrong with showing off aslong as it's tasteful, it's pretty much the essense of performance. Id say use your experience that you already have over all these up and comeing spinners to just be so good and expresive with your spinning that no one will mistake you with one of those.


It doesn't threaten your individuality in any way either, unless you so shallow that you actually define yourself as a fire spinner or something.

What can we benefit from it becomeing main stream?

A)more move/style development/pooling which furthers it as an art form
C)Better equipment inovations (Like magic wicks that never run out of fuel and weigh as much as glowsticks (ok maybe not)
D)I wont have to explain poi to anyone, it's friggin irritating trying to explain it.

Sure theres going to be a bunch of lame-os. That just means we have something to make fun of (hell theres already lame-os, im one of them)

Posted: 1st Dec 2003

Quote:

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it would be a way to show off and get attention. Anything that goes mainstream seems to become corrupt or dulled completely.

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Pardon me, dearest sir, but it already IS a way to show off for many-many. What in fact makes the art itself even more "passionate" (i suppose), 'cuz when you're creating your Masterpiece If it's worth it you'll get all the attention and the applause you deserve.
BUT, since more people spinning, the level of competition between us, spinners, should rise, what will lead to better techniques, style...

Quote:

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more and more people purchasing the equipment are not particularly interested in the art of it, but rather 'the image'.

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So GOOD FOR THEM!!! AND FOR YOU, AND FOR ME, and for all of us, who are interested in the art itself and not the image.

You know, i've travelled a lot, and the country i live in is a very strange place (but worth lovin it). everyone (well let's say the mayority) from 15 to 25 years old preferes to hang out in the street, drinkin vodka, doing nothing and poisoning a genofund of the nation... (I'm not talkin' about Moscow, cuz Moscow is "another country inside mother-Russia")
So if they'll start spinnin it will never do anything bad for them all (cuz worse cannot be). AND if we look at poi from the other point of view (poi=sport [poirobics]) it also will not harm noone, and apart from that poi will become just one more thing that unites different people...

when it gets colder that -25, you don't really care

Posted: 1st Dec 2003
I think its a good thing that its getting more popular, the more the merrier.. Poi is one of those things that naturally gets passed on. My friend picked it up in India and gave it to me, i passed it on to other people, they do the the same, etc.. It doesnt matter how popular it is or how many people do poi, it wont affect me in any way..

Posted: 1st Dec 2003
It does have a long way to go to really mainstream I think. I'm reminded of this around Christmas because of all those relatives who ship into town who want to know what the hell it is they've heard about me! There are still plenty of people who have no idea what it is and why you'd want to anyway.

My favorite quote on this subject:
While walking down the street at the back of a group of fire twirlers I heard a lady discussing what "those stick things" that my friend PK was carrying. Her friend explained the fire-twirling thing to her and she said:
"But only circus people do that kind of thing"
On hearing this I turned around and said point blank "We ARE circus people" with a grin as I held a 10 litre fuel can of kero. She looked a little startled.

Having said that, a lot of younger people who hear about it for the first time want to at least have a go. Retention rate is what will make it mainstream. Do you see those people firing up in 15 tears time?

UYI OLDSKOOL

Posted: 1st Dec 2003
What's mainstream?

-Mike

Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella



A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura

Posted: 1st Dec 2003
Mainstream would be something common among the masses.

Well, mainstream could definately be a good thing in other parts of the world. But I live in America, and to me, I think it's a bad thing. I really don't like a lot of things in America. But that just goes along with people's mental laziness and the greed. I think if it did become mainstream here it would be fake, and thrown into something like a Britney Spears concert.

If love is all and love is everyone. Is it knowing? Is it knowing?!

Posted: 1st Dec 2003
I think it's a double edged sword.

On the plus side, more exposure is going to result in more people who have a unique approach to it, therefore we get more ideas flowing around.

On the bad side, there's the safety aspect, people not bothering to learn how to spin fire properly and giving all people who spin fire a bad name. Hopefully though, if there is enough exposure, it may be enough so that not everyone is tarred with the same brush. If a snowboarder cuts you up on the piste, I imagine most people to realise that it's the individual's fault rather than the fault of an overall snowboarder's collective.

The point people have made about it being used to show off I think is a touch irrelevant.
If people take up spinning to show off, they'll be trying to impress while only being able to do the most basic of moves, they'll get blown out of the water by someone dedicated enough to practice for the sake of learning who is only spinning because they enjoy it.
If they're only spinning to impress but invest enough time and effort into it to truly impress, then again there's no problem - they'll be contributing to the overall level of spinners by developing things themselves which'll get picked up and shared by more people.

But there's no sense crying over every mistake. You just keep on trying till you run out of cake.

Posted: 1st Dec 2003
First off Howdy to FailedMunchkin, nice to see another Minnesotan, even if you have a dual citizenship with Arizona

The mainstream thing is a toughy, I mean you shouldn't base your opinion of something solely on the fact that its massively popular. There are alot of good and bad mainstream things. However it seems if something is fairly small scale/underground the few people who work with it are more intense. When things become mainstream they have the ten minutes of fame and than become common place, thats when people stop caring and the art or whatever stops progressing. Not always of course, its hard to say.

_________________________________
Fuzzy Dice.......................................

Posted: 1st Dec 2003
i think it would be bad because then people would only do it to be "cool" and the people who do it cos they actually like it would be mistaken for those who are just doing it to be in with the fad.

i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey

Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...

Posted: 2nd Dec 2003
i think it becoming mainstream is a good thing as it means there is more info out there more ideas floating around.

but like it or not you cant stop it so enjoy the ride

Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourself, who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous and talented? Who are you NOT to be?

Posted: 2nd Dec 2003
ok im a bit of both
+ side -- more ppl spinning means more shops to buy gear from (cos were i am there is none), and it does mean more ideas and ppl to play with....

- side -- it would be like anything, lots of lil kiddies doing it and pooing all over it!

SO in teh long run im totaly against mainstream stuff, not cos im a freakwho like it that way, id love more ppl to play with, but ppl who like to play cos they like spinning, not cos its supposed to be cool!

Step (el-nombrie)

Posted: 2nd Dec 2003
I hope it doesnt go mainstream.Even know it would have many plus. things that go mainstream seem to loose the allure of mystery and danger.Who ever said it would make them more employable as a fire performer are you mad ? why would someone pay you when every Joe , Dick and Harry is spinning fire ?

Lets push glow sticking main stream leave the flame for thoose with a passion for it.

I dont know there is just something about fire people that makes them different from main stream people. If fire art were to go main stream I am sure we would all find something else to do that isnt so mainstream.But thats just My never humble opinion

I have been cursed with the imagination to envision it all

Posted: 3rd Dec 2003

Quote:

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Who ever said it would make them more employable as a fire performer are you mad ? why would someone pay you when every Joe , Dick and Harry is spinning fire ?

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you obviously havnt seen a video of rob twirling check out www.poiinthepark.net he is in most of them

i dont understand why ppl think that because lots of ppl are spinning it will take away the passion, surely that comes from within so unless ur just doing it for a look at me nothing should change?

Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourself, who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous and talented? Who are you NOT to be?

Posted: 3rd Dec 2003
I'm actually really scared of poi-ing in front of people I don't know, mainly because I'm still pretty new to it all (as in been doin it a while but haven't had the chance to learn off of people yet) I only poi in my garden, out the front of my house or in a random field at raves which is the only place I learn off others, great fun though, cold and freezing poi-ing in the mornings with banging techno LOVE IT
I don't know how I feel about it becoming mainstream, raves are getting to be that way too. Poi's my special thing with my friends, they have something, I have poi!

Monkeys monkeys and bananas

Posted: 3rd Dec 2003
One of my friends in plymouth says that it is all the rage and everyone 'cool' has got a pair! But, they cant actually use them and dont want to try, they just want to become cool!

So in my opinion i think it is a bad thing and should be left to people who have found out the art and wish to go all the way with it.

EaT MorE BanAnAs, DrinK MoRe CIder, HaVe LESS sLEEp

Posted: 4th Dec 2003
As one of those people who are only doing fire stuff to be "cool", here's my thoughts.....

I'm pleased fire-arts are generally becomming more mainstream, as if they weren't I don't imagine I would ever have had the chance to learn any. I've always had something of a fascination with fire, and am known as a bit of a pyromaniac amongst friends, hence my keenness to try this when I got the opportunity. But the opportunity only arose because I made some new friends who could do various fire-arts, and they agreed to teach me, and others, which wouldn't happen if it wasn't spreadding....

I think that it becomming more mainstream will mean that more "normal" people who are interested, like me, will have the opportunity to try it, and I think that is a good thing. It's certainly been very enjoyable for me! However, as others have already mentioned, I don't think that most people will have the dedication to persue the art properly. I know I don't. I have learned a little firebreathing, which I will do at events with friends, to impress and because I enjoy it and because I hope they will enjoy watching it. I may learn a little stuff with poi in the future, but I will never practice enough to be really good - again, it will be for fun, both mine and other people's. But I'm happy with that - I have no wish to persue it any further. And I think most "mainstream" people who try this sort of thing will be the same. So those who have the dedication and passion to practice enough to become superb performers have nothing to fear from us in that respect - you will always be way better than us!

Now, as for it taking away the mystery, I disagree entirely! Before I learned any of this, I was mildly interesetd in fire arts, as I am mildly interested in pretty much anything that burns.... But since learning more about them, I am fascinated! I have a much greater appreciation of the levels of skill, and of danger, involved. Before it was some guy swinging firey stuff about, and it looks kind of cool, but what's the big deal? Now I see it as a real art form, and would be much more anxious to go and see anyone who really knew what they were doing than I was before, and would be much more likely to appreciate what I was seeing. In general I find people are much more appreicative of things which they have some understaning of, and for me this is definitely true of fire arts. Hopefully it will be true of others, too.

And in general, I think it will only become mainstream in the way that, oh, parachuting or bungie jumping have become mainstream. Yes, anyone who wants to can have a go, but the number of people interested is small because it just doesn't appeal to most, not least because of the danger. And most will try it once or twice, and move on to the next thing. So what's the problem?

Just my (rather long) tuppence on the subject,
hugs,
m

"Come to the edge", he said. They said "We are afraid."
"Come to the edge", he said. They came.
He pushed them..... and they flew.
- Apollinaire

Posted: 4th Dec 2003
Forgot to say in my last post, the one big problem I can see is with people not being aware of the safety side of things. The guys I learned from possibly don't take safety as seriously as they should, and it's through websites like these that I'm learning more about what I should and should not be doing to stay safe. But actually I think that's more of a problem with the "intermediate" stage between it being a subculture thing and it being mainstream. If it truly becomes mainstream then hopefully most people would be properly educated about the risks, and if they still decided to continue would know where to go to learn properly, from someone who takes safety seriously, rather than off their mate who doesn't really know what they're doing.....

Right, I really will shut up now, I promise!

hugs,
m

"Come to the edge", he said. They said "We are afraid."
"Come to the edge", he said. They came.
He pushed them..... and they flew.
- Apollinaire

Posted: 4th Dec 2003
I think it has already become mainstream. Everybody I know knows someone who does poi, staff or some fire-art - and no, that person isn't always me.

I think that the more people I teach poi to the more people I can share my hobbie with. I mean, playing guitar is mainstream, and that doesn't make playing guitar less enjoyable, same for snowbording, practicing martial arts, drawing manga, or building your own web-page. The fact alone that it's fun and gets people off thier butts is good enough for me and makes me want to promote it to have a better spinning community in my area.

And to the argument that says spinning will lose it's mystic appeal, I say 'POO!': I beleive that familiarizing people with spinning only makes them better appretiate a good performance. Besides spinning is a bit too demanding to just 'look cool'; the people who really get into it are the ones that are passionate about it.

Non-Https Image Link
What this all has to do with dancing bananas is another story.

there is no better way to say I love you than with the gift of a spatula!

Posted: 5th Dec 2003
I agree with Soldari, the more the better and it's already pretty much mainstream anyway.
Yes some people may think it will lose it's 'mystical appreal' and won't be able to perform so often or show off as much for big crowds, but if theyd just let their ego deflate a little it won't matter anyway!

I think if more people spent time spinning they'd spend a lot less time doing nothing, or causing trouble or whatever, especially the kids (thats the u16's out there) that spend way to much time on their arses watching tv and playing video games.

Everyone could learn a new skill, get some exercise and express themselves a little. Surely that's a good thing on the whole!

Maybe it will be the next hula hoop??

Let's relight this forum

Posted: 7th Dec 2003
So we don't have duplicate threads.

And my opinion...

It is mainstream, it is a fad thing like clothes. 4 years of being on the boards has been enough to prove that to me.

Besides...fire spinning has been in a Britney Spears video, on stage with Cher, and in an Office Max commercial. I think that qualifies as mainstream. We can't stop it.
The only issue I have with it concerns the laxed nature that many take with security measures and the fact that so many incompetent people have the belief that it is an easy way to make a dollar without forethought to safety or presentation, which reflects badly on all of us, especially after a major accident.

Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

Posted: 8th Dec 2003

Quote:

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Besides...fire spinning has been in a Britney Spears video

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Which Britney video was that Pele?
Not that I'm a fan or anything, definitely not , just been recently wracking my brain over music vids that had fire spinning in them, as I hadn't seen it in anything apart from William Orbit's 'Water from a Vine Leaf' which was ace

Just so I don't go off topic here - mainstream good or bad?
The main good thing about more mainstream recognition would be not getting blank looks from work mates when I tell them I've been spinning poi at the weekend!

Bad? As mentioned already, people getting into spinning without proper safety considerations - especially say using a nice set of sturdy beamers in preference to a set of fire heads...

A.

It's just a ride...