Forums > Technical Discussion > Wick assembly?
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HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Posted:
Ok, so I have cathedral wicks and they're getting a bit old. Rather than buying a new set of wicks, I'd like to just get the Kevlar and fold them myself. But there's one problem:
The cathedral wicks have a bolt running down the center. Given that we're dealing with a few inches of Kevlar, which is bullet-proof, how do you get the bolt through the kevlar?
Ok, so I have cathedral wicks and they're getting a bit old. Rather than buying a new set of wicks, I'd like to just get the Kevlar and fold them myself. But there's one problem:
The cathedral wicks have a bolt running down the center. Given that we're dealing with a few inches of Kevlar, which is bullet-proof, how do you get the bolt through the kevlar?
-Mike
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella
A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura
BRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,009 posts
Location: Bristol, UK
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,009 posts
Location: Bristol, UK
Posted:
Adam Rice makes good wicks and documents his recipies as well: here
Adam Rice makes good wicks and documents his recipies as well: here
member
158 posts
Location: Oxford, U.K.
158 posts
Location: Oxford, U.K.
Posted:
i think that bullet proof kevlar is different to fire wick kelvar, i.e. you can probably drill through it.
i think that bullet proof kevlar is different to fire wick kelvar, i.e. you can probably drill through it.
One fine day in the middle of the night,
Two dead men got up to fight,
Back to back they faced each other,
Drew there swords and Shot each other.
SILVER Member
Liquid Cow
2,629 posts
Location: High Wycombe, England
Liquid Cow
2,629 posts
Location: High Wycombe, England
Posted:
I've not made myself any cathedral wicks yet, but when I put wicks onto my staff, I drilled through the kevlar to help the screws through.
It's a bit of a hassle, but if you keep the drill bit turning slowly, it gets through reasonably well.
Obviously I have no idea how well it'll work trying to drill holes large enough for cathedral wick sized bolts to go through, so sorry if this isn't much help.
I've not made myself any cathedral wicks yet, but when I put wicks onto my staff, I drilled through the kevlar to help the screws through.
It's a bit of a hassle, but if you keep the drill bit turning slowly, it gets through reasonably well.
Obviously I have no idea how well it'll work trying to drill holes large enough for cathedral wick sized bolts to go through, so sorry if this isn't much help.
But there's no sense crying over every mistake. You just keep on trying till you run out of cake.
member
71 posts
Location: Brisbane, Qld, Australia
71 posts
Location: Brisbane, Qld, Australia
Posted:
better to get a drill punch, a spike to dent metal for drilling. It spreads the wick apart rather than tearing into it. Push a skewer or nail through first to create a pilot hole. leave the head of it at the surface, then get your punch and hammer it through. need to do it over a piece of timber with a hole in it.
i have found it the best way cos you dont need to hold the wick in place while making the hole.
hope this helps
better to get a drill punch, a spike to dent metal for drilling. It spreads the wick apart rather than tearing into it. Push a skewer or nail through first to create a pilot hole. leave the head of it at the surface, then get your punch and hammer it through. need to do it over a piece of timber with a hole in it.
i have found it the best way cos you dont need to hold the wick in place while making the hole.
hope this helps
Ninja Rockstar!
1,100 posts
Location: Denver, Co. U.S.A.
1,100 posts
Location: Denver, Co. U.S.A.
Posted:
making cathedral wicks isn't hard at all.
I used a sharp knife to make an X cut where the bolt goes through. And I cut each layer individually. It's really simple, just time consuming at first.
Fold up your kevlar first and then you can bend the whole wick kinda like a slinky to reach in and make your cuts and feed your bolt through as you go. Oh, and be shure to use a longer bolt than you think you need and then cut the exess off with a hack saw. I would advise against using a drill to make the hole though, it tends to get caught in the weave and it's a pain in the ass. Then all thats left is putting on a washer and a nut. Tighten it down, but keep in mind that the tigher it is the longer your wicks will last, but the looser they are the more fuel they hold and the bigger flame you get.
Hope it helps,
Cheers.
I've made many, many pairs of wicks, so if you have any questions, or want any help feel free to email me or IM me. I'd be more than happy to help.
[ 05 August 2002, 11:28: Message edited by: SickpuPpy ]
making cathedral wicks isn't hard at all.
I used a sharp knife to make an X cut where the bolt goes through. And I cut each layer individually. It's really simple, just time consuming at first.
Fold up your kevlar first and then you can bend the whole wick kinda like a slinky to reach in and make your cuts and feed your bolt through as you go. Oh, and be shure to use a longer bolt than you think you need and then cut the exess off with a hack saw. I would advise against using a drill to make the hole though, it tends to get caught in the weave and it's a pain in the ass. Then all thats left is putting on a washer and a nut. Tighten it down, but keep in mind that the tigher it is the longer your wicks will last, but the looser they are the more fuel they hold and the bigger flame you get.
Hope it helps,
Cheers.
I've made many, many pairs of wicks, so if you have any questions, or want any help feel free to email me or IM me. I'd be more than happy to help.
[ 05 August 2002, 11:28: Message edited by: SickpuPpy ]
Jesus helps me trick people.
Ninja Rockstar!
1,100 posts
Location: Denver, Co. U.S.A.
1,100 posts
Location: Denver, Co. U.S.A.
Posted:
Ajay, kevlar is kevlar. Wheather it's used for bullet proof vests or for wicking, it's still just kevlar.
The way kevlar works in BP vests is that kevlar is basicly velcro for most bullets. When the bullet makes contact with the kevlar the kevlar grabs the bullet and stops the bullet from rotating thusly taking away most of it's penetrating power. This is why high powerd rifle bullets and teflon coated bullets will penetrate kevlar vests. Teflon eleminates the friction and high powerd rifle bullets are just spinning way too fast for the kevlar to stop it.
This is the nature of kevlar, and as much it makes it difficult to just drill through it with out the drill binding up or the bit snapping. But fortunately knives seem to penetrate kevlar very nicely.
[ 05 August 2002, 11:37: Message edited by: SickpuPpy ]
Ajay, kevlar is kevlar. Wheather it's used for bullet proof vests or for wicking, it's still just kevlar.
The way kevlar works in BP vests is that kevlar is basicly velcro for most bullets. When the bullet makes contact with the kevlar the kevlar grabs the bullet and stops the bullet from rotating thusly taking away most of it's penetrating power. This is why high powerd rifle bullets and teflon coated bullets will penetrate kevlar vests. Teflon eleminates the friction and high powerd rifle bullets are just spinning way too fast for the kevlar to stop it.
This is the nature of kevlar, and as much it makes it difficult to just drill through it with out the drill binding up or the bit snapping. But fortunately knives seem to penetrate kevlar very nicely.
[ 05 August 2002, 11:37: Message edited by: SickpuPpy ]
Jesus helps me trick people.
GOLD Member
still can't believe it's not butter
6,978 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
still can't believe it's not butter
6,978 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posted:
Yes, my young Duke! the slow blade penetrates the shield!
Yes, my young Duke! the slow blade penetrates the shield!
Laugh Often, Smile Much, Post lolcats Always
SILVER Member
Are we there yet?
1,897 posts
Location: australia
Are we there yet?
1,897 posts
Location: australia
Posted:
Mike, I wouldn't use a drill - as Sickpuppy suggests, it'll get caught within a couple of revolutions and you'll be cursing the kevlar, trying to untangle your drill bit, and cursing yourself for not thinking that that was always going to happen
I used an eye bolt to secure the cathedrals in the middle. To start with I used the hole I'd just made with the drill but you could use a nail or screw or similar, just to get you going. Then I just rammed the bolt through - twisting and pushing as I went along.
Certainly not the most sophisticated method of construction, but it worked well for me, and the cathedrals are very secure.
Mike, I wouldn't use a drill - as Sickpuppy suggests, it'll get caught within a couple of revolutions and you'll be cursing the kevlar, trying to untangle your drill bit, and cursing yourself for not thinking that that was always going to happen
I used an eye bolt to secure the cathedrals in the middle. To start with I used the hole I'd just made with the drill but you could use a nail or screw or similar, just to get you going. Then I just rammed the bolt through - twisting and pushing as I went along.
Certainly not the most sophisticated method of construction, but it worked well for me, and the cathedrals are very secure.
BRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,009 posts
Location: Bristol, UK
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,009 posts
Location: Bristol, UK
Posted:
"kevlar is kevlar".
No it isn't. There's different weaves, densities, and blends for different uses. If you're thinking your wicks can save you when you're walking through Drive-by Central LA, you're wrong
"kevlar is kevlar".
No it isn't. There's different weaves, densities, and blends for different uses. If you're thinking your wicks can save you when you're walking through Drive-by Central LA, you're wrong
Ninja Rockstar!
1,100 posts
Location: Denver, Co. U.S.A.
1,100 posts
Location: Denver, Co. U.S.A.
Posted:
Fortunately I don't live in LA. And if I did, being a white boy, I wouldn't go anywhere near Watts or any of the famous south central neighborhoods. That would just be stupid of me.
And if for some weird reason I was there and I did get shot at. I don't think my first thought would be to sit down, tear apart my wicks, and drape them about my body in a defensive manner.
Fortunately I don't live in LA. And if I did, being a white boy, I wouldn't go anywhere near Watts or any of the famous south central neighborhoods. That would just be stupid of me.
And if for some weird reason I was there and I did get shot at. I don't think my first thought would be to sit down, tear apart my wicks, and drape them about my body in a defensive manner.
Jesus helps me trick people.
Ninja Rockstar!
1,100 posts
Location: Denver, Co. U.S.A.
1,100 posts
Location: Denver, Co. U.S.A.
Posted:
I Tried the screwdriver at first but I found it quicker and easier to use an exacto knife and make each cut individually.
Maybe I should sit down one day and make a smaller version of those razor tipped hunting arrows, one that will fit snugly, but remove easily from the end of an eye bolt. So you can just work your eye bolt through the kevlar rather than making the hole and then trying to stuff your bolt through.
I Tried the screwdriver at first but I found it quicker and easier to use an exacto knife and make each cut individually.
Maybe I should sit down one day and make a smaller version of those razor tipped hunting arrows, one that will fit snugly, but remove easily from the end of an eye bolt. So you can just work your eye bolt through the kevlar rather than making the hole and then trying to stuff your bolt through.
Jesus helps me trick people.
member
212 posts
Location: tampa fl usa
212 posts
Location: tampa fl usa
Posted:
Bolts through the wicks ouch.. i find it much worth the time in burnt skin to make blind hardware wicks it takes a little longer but is well worth it to not have a bolt sticking through the bottom of your wick i use an ice pick to make the hole then a phillips screw driver
then a tube i made so i can slide the cable through.. i just got done making a new set os fire poi just for wraps there is no exposed metel on it any where but for right under the grip makes for some really interesting and long wraps
Bolts through the wicks ouch.. i find it much worth the time in burnt skin to make blind hardware wicks it takes a little longer but is well worth it to not have a bolt sticking through the bottom of your wick i use an ice pick to make the hole then a phillips screw driver
then a tube i made so i can slide the cable through.. i just got done making a new set os fire poi just for wraps there is no exposed metel on it any where but for right under the grip makes for some really interesting and long wraps
I have been cursed with the imagination to envision it all
Laguna dude
1,438 posts
Location: Laguna, California, US
1,438 posts
Location: Laguna, California, US
Posted:
SickpuPy, is holding up your wicks in South Central LA or whatever soldier hood is convenient to you your way of getting holes drilled in your fireheads?
quote:i live near LA, course being neither black nor white, in Compton they can't decide whether to shoot me, so i don't attract a lot of bullets.
SickpuPy sez: Fortunately I don't live in LA. And if I did, being a white boy, I wouldn't go anywhere near Watts or any of the famous south central neighborhoods. That would just be stupid of me.
And if for some weird reason I was there and I did get shot at. I don't think my first thought would be to sit down, tear apart my wicks, and drape them about my body in a defensive manner.
SickpuPy, is holding up your wicks in South Central LA or whatever soldier hood is convenient to you your way of getting holes drilled in your fireheads?
molten cheers,
~ FireMike
FireMikeZ@yahoo.com (personal messages welcome, no promo spam, please!)
Laguna, California, US
Laguna dude
1,438 posts
Location: Laguna, California, US
1,438 posts
Location: Laguna, California, US
Posted:
Riz, your new wrapper's specialty poi sound madd! how did you make them to hide all the metal parts, and by the grip you mean where the fireheads are attached to the chain? could ya post up a pic too, or at least tell us in words? i'm making some cathedrals right now, and would truly love to know right away!
Riz, your new wrapper's specialty poi sound madd! how did you make them to hide all the metal parts, and by the grip you mean where the fireheads are attached to the chain? could ya post up a pic too, or at least tell us in words? i'm making some cathedrals right now, and would truly love to know right away!
molten cheers,
~ FireMike
FireMikeZ@yahoo.com (personal messages welcome, no promo spam, please!)
Laguna, California, US
member
212 posts
Location: tampa fl usa
212 posts
Location: tampa fl usa
Posted:
Fire mike
Chains ?? I dont use no stinking chains( done in my best scare face voice )::laughs :::..Insted of a chain I use pure kevlar rope..and I do a kind of varie of a blind rig on the wick..
Adam Rice has a great instuction sheet on his site on how to make the blind harware wick..
with my having acces to a full machine shop i make my own inserts for the rope to stay in the wick but washer and a nut will work as well
they just dont lay as flat in the wick.. i am hoping this weekend at th beach someone bring a camera so i can get some pics of these in use
but for now think of doing a weave when both your hands are on the right side of your body.and right before you make the move with your right hand to go back to the left . you wrap the right hand poi around your left arm from the handle to the wick i get like 6 wrap arounds cause i use long poi and i have skinny arms
then you move both your arms to the left kind of like doing a 5 beat while leaving your right hand were it is at that allows the poi that is wraped to unwind by the time you get to your left side the poi has unwound looks realy great and could never be done with a metel chain with out loseing some skin
Fire mike
Chains ?? I dont use no stinking chains( done in my best scare face voice )::laughs :::..Insted of a chain I use pure kevlar rope..and I do a kind of varie of a blind rig on the wick..
Adam Rice has a great instuction sheet on his site on how to make the blind harware wick..
with my having acces to a full machine shop i make my own inserts for the rope to stay in the wick but washer and a nut will work as well
they just dont lay as flat in the wick.. i am hoping this weekend at th beach someone bring a camera so i can get some pics of these in use
but for now think of doing a weave when both your hands are on the right side of your body.and right before you make the move with your right hand to go back to the left . you wrap the right hand poi around your left arm from the handle to the wick i get like 6 wrap arounds cause i use long poi and i have skinny arms
then you move both your arms to the left kind of like doing a 5 beat while leaving your right hand were it is at that allows the poi that is wraped to unwind by the time you get to your left side the poi has unwound looks realy great and could never be done with a metel chain with out loseing some skin
I have been cursed with the imagination to envision it all
Laguna dude
1,438 posts
Location: Laguna, California, US
1,438 posts
Location: Laguna, California, US
Posted:
this is incredible, Riz, and i drive East LA 'times, "no stinkin chains," it's all kevlar!...
so you just burn whatever part's soaked, huh?
this is incredible, Riz, and i drive East LA 'times, "no stinkin chains," it's all kevlar!...
so you just burn whatever part's soaked, huh?
molten cheers,
~ FireMike
FireMikeZ@yahoo.com (personal messages welcome, no promo spam, please!)
Laguna, California, US
member
212 posts
Location: tampa fl usa
212 posts
Location: tampa fl usa
Posted:
Mike
the pure kevalr doest absorb fuel worth a crap
so none gets into the leash it will burn for about 10 seconds right were it connects to the head but thats about it
Mike
the pure kevalr doest absorb fuel worth a crap
so none gets into the leash it will burn for about 10 seconds right were it connects to the head but thats about it
I have been cursed with the imagination to envision it all
SILVER Member
Are we there yet?
1,897 posts
Location: australia
Are we there yet?
1,897 posts
Location: australia
Posted:
Quick update on cathedral construction: made 2 new sets on the weekend (one from new kevlar and one from old stuff off old staffs) - found a new and easier way to get the eye bolt through!
Organise the cathedral fold, and then place in a vice (so that about one third is held in the vice), then get a long screw (I used some self taping brass screws about 8cm long) and use a screwdriver to screw it through the folds. It didn't get caught like a drill bit would, and by using the screwdriver it went in really easily. Then take out screw, ram eye bolt through!
Quick update on cathedral construction: made 2 new sets on the weekend (one from new kevlar and one from old stuff off old staffs) - found a new and easier way to get the eye bolt through!
Organise the cathedral fold, and then place in a vice (so that about one third is held in the vice), then get a long screw (I used some self taping brass screws about 8cm long) and use a screwdriver to screw it through the folds. It didn't get caught like a drill bit would, and by using the screwdriver it went in really easily. Then take out screw, ram eye bolt through!
BRONZE Member
Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
3,989 posts
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
3,989 posts
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Posted:
Walks down memory lane and *BUMPS* into a tree...
Hey (lookup at an old thread), this is quite a good thread...
Walks down memory lane and *BUMPS* into a tree...
Hey (lookup at an old thread), this is quite a good thread...
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