Forums > Social Discussion > What do you think about the murdered police women?

Posted: 21st Nov 2005
I've never heard the government saying that, where did you hear it? In any case people won't stand for the re-introduction of the death penalty in Britain (with a few obnoxiously loud exeptions of course).

According to Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle of Quantum Dynamics, we may already be making love right now...

Posted: 21st Nov 2005
not heard about this, but the government will take any chance they can to turn the country into a police state.

f*** em, just leave the uk

Spherculism ~:~ The Act of becoming Spherculish.

Posted: 21st Nov 2005
Ok HERE is a link for all those in the world that don't know about Pc Sharon Beshenivsky being shot dead. (this is an international board Thumperabbit so it sometimes helps people not from the country of origin of the story to link to a reputable News web page)

The police are holding six people already on this case.

HERE is the the former Met Police chief Lord Stevens reasons for wanting to bring back the death penalty for Police killers.

I haven't seen any reports of the Government (Yes I know he is a Lord but he isn't in the government exactly) calling for the death penalty though. Any links for that around?

I am so anti the death penalty.

Feed me Chocolate!!! Feed me NOW!

Posted: 21st Nov 2005
Thx for the links Skully, useful.

In principle I'm for the Death Penalty for more than just murder, but in practice I'm totally against it. I think I'll wait and see what happens before I comment on it. But I do think that valuing a police officer above anyone else is wrong. What makes them inherently superior than, say, a banker? A paramedic?

Surely, if a police officer is shot, then you can say "They knew the risks of the job" but if you're just working in a shop and you get shot, you can't really say the same.

After much consideration, I find that the view is worth the asphyxiation.
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I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.

Posted: 21st Nov 2005

Written by: spherculist

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not heard about this, but the government will take any chance they can to turn the country into a police state.

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If you go to Westminster, London it is already a police state.

I am leaving the UK however. I'm sure when I return it will be worse.

A real shame Tony Blair/Labour have turned this country round for the worse.

ah wah wah wah a wah wah

Posted: 21st Nov 2005
I agree that the death penalty should be brought back but its annoying that many people of the general public are killed without any effect. Itr seems to take a police woman to be killed for them to thik about bringing it back. How are the general public so different? surely evenyones life is just as valuable as another.

Posted: 21st Nov 2005
I completely agree Nucleopoi. Of course every life is the same, sadly the justice system does not see it that way.

The only reason i'm scared of little kid's is because I know in ten year's time they'll be mugging me.....

Posted: 21st Nov 2005
I don't think the people pushing for the death penalty for the killers of police, are implying that the lives of police officers are more valuable than those of the general public.

Rather, their intent is more about trying to cut down on the number of unarmed police getting gunned down.

"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

Posted: 21st Nov 2005
arm the police!!!

give them the tazar guns they need. what ever happend to criminals having no rights??

i'm sorry if i sound harsh but do criminals concidder other peoples human rights when they shove a gun in some one's face??

Posted: 22nd Nov 2005
Because, Ravehead, it's not always so straightforward who the criminal is.

-Mike

Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella



A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura

Posted: 22nd Nov 2005
^what he said^

there are a few things that would induce me to leave this country permanently. reintroduction of the death penalty is one of them. not sure where i'd go...but no. no no and no.

Posted: 22nd Nov 2005
There is always a better option to murdering someone as a form of punishment. It's nothing but a primitive revenge instinct that should have no place in a 'civilised' society.

On a pragmatic note, the justice system is still filled with flaws and false positives. Bring back the death penalty and you will kill innocent people.

According to Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle of Quantum Dynamics, we may already be making love right now...

Posted: 22nd Nov 2005
Looking at this from the opposite direction, a question for Americans- are there any pressure groups in the US campaigning for the police not to be armed?

And-

are US police seen as less approachable because they are armed (in the UK, a big argument against arming the police, is that it will destroy the special relationship which, apparently, they currently have with members of the general public).

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I've currently got no opinion on this, as there seem to be good reasons on both sides.

I can appreciate that if I had a relative in the police, I would find it unfair that she could well find herself unarmed and facing an armed criminal who is willing to kill her.

Then again, I'm aware that it's not so long ago that UK police from a trained gun unit, executed an innocent Brazilian, having mistook him for a terrorist.

"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

Posted: 22nd Nov 2005
This happened just near me, imo why should i police officers life be valued more than any toher person? ie: fireman ambulance driver? they all put there life on the line everyday!

Posted: 22nd Nov 2005
Who's actually saying that a police officers life is more valued?

There seems to be an assumption that having the death penalty for kilers of police=police lives being more valued.

Whereas; I would think that people pushing for the death penalty for police killers, are doing so because they think it will cut down on police being killed (and hence aiding the protection of society), and that this is nothing to do with them thinking police lives to be more valuable.

"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

Posted: 23rd Nov 2005
It's only when they are killed in the line of duty that they are treated differently.

I do believe that the context of a killing should have bearing on it's punishment.

And if someone kills my sister I think they should be killed, this way my little sister can come back to life. That's how it works right? It's like dodgeball.

Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

Posted: 23rd Nov 2005

Posted: 23rd Nov 2005

Written by: Hexagonic

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A real shame Tony Blair/Labour have turned this country round for the worse.

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Well, true, but I doubt the tories would have done any better (judging on what they did to the country in the 80s - the fact is it's obviously not possibly to make everyone happy and only make right decisions, regardless of the colour of your tie), and to be honest until the last election we've basically had a 2-party system.



Bring on the Lib Dems, I say, a somewhat more considered approach and a genuine alternative.



I disagree with the reinstatement of the death penalty for this, and I'm pretty shocked at the amount of coverage this one story has got. It's extremely sad that someone has died, but by becoming a police officer you are going to be facing criminals. It is your job to come between criminals and the general public. And some criminals are murderers. That's the point, regardless of whether or not the powers that be can actually take that line. I'd be more shocked by an ordinary citizen being shot, because obviously they're less involved with the capture of criminals. And obviously the criminals want to get away from the people who could potentially arrest them.



Most of the outcry seems to be for the fact she was a woman police officer, which is just plain wrong. Personally I don't believe the life of one gender is more or less important than the other, and I doubt most people would think that.



People are killed every day, many people are shot dead every year. It's extremely sad. But the only reason I can see that there's been such a stir over this one incident is that there's been very little other news recently and they have to sell papers and fill the 30 minutes of TV news somehow.

What a wonderful miracle if only we could look through each other's eyes for an instant.
Thoreau

Posted: 24th Nov 2005

Written by: onewheeldave

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Looking at this from the opposite direction, a question for Americans- are there any pressure groups in the US campaigning for the police not to be armed?



And-



are US police seen as less approachable because they are armed (in the UK, a big argument against arming the police, is that it will destroy the special relationship which, apparently, they currently have with members of the general public).

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for reference-- "The Justice Department reports that police [in the US] kill about 400 people each year. These deaths are referred to as "justifiable homicides," incidents in which the suspect is killed to prevent death or injury to the officer or another person. ... The Justice Department does not collect statistics on killings by police in which the officer used excessive force or may have committed a crime." ..The numbers are tough to find, but about 60 police seem to be shot each year, 3 or so of them women. Do take note of the term 'justifiable homicides' there-- the general populace is so accustomed to all this violence that they mostly take the actions of the police for granted, and agree almost unquestioningly. This would NOT be the case in another country.



There -are- groups here that would like to see the cops put away their guns and use more of the nonlethal alternatives, but it's not something you hear about all that often. I guess our mentality is some kind of holdover from the Wild West? Hell if I know. It's always been like this, we're used to it. And I guess if pretty much the entire populace is armed, people figure the police should be even with them? It's not a logic that makes a ton of sense to me. I mean what is this, some kind of police vs civilians Cold War mentality?



I personally find it deeply disturbing. Say I have a taillight on my car out, like a couple weeks ago. I get pulled over. The cop comes up to me to ask for my license and registration. Sure, I might be a dangerous nutcase or something-- but how the hell does that justify the fact that this guy next to my car is carrying a -lethal- weapon ready for use? The sole function of that gun is to kill people-- that's specifically what they're designed for. Since when does 'serve and protect' also mean 'and maybe KILL YOU' ? There's no justification for police to carry lethal weapons. They are civilians, and they're here to help, not to hurt anybody. It's not like they even -want- to use them. It makes absolutely no sense. I -like- the police, being able to dial 911 when you catch someone breaking into your house is a beautiful thing-- but the guns still make me cringe.



I think it was last year at New Years, I remember seeing the footage of the different celebrations going on in different cities... in Vegas they had put up 20 foot chain link fence barricades across many streets, erected a 30 foot guard tower in the middle of a main square, and there were military helicopters circling overhead. In my own state, the biggest city has a population of about 1 million-- even there, they had teams of police in riot gear, with armored trucks, fully outfitted with things like AK-47s. They also bring that stuff out whenever there is a protest, or on various other days of the year. And then they make sure to send out reporters to get as many clips as possible of passersby on the street saying things like "Oh it all makes me feel so much safer!" ....Which would be worse, I wonder-- if they were -paying- them to say it, or if the American populace is really so gullible and paranoid that so many of them actually would -mean- it?



Okay, ostensibly the purpose of all these guns is mainly psychological-- but even so, what the hell possible psychological good does it do anybody to create a situation where you have large crowds of unruly people mixing with groups of men outfitted for mass slaughter? ...How does it -help-, to make the general populace -afraid- of the very force that's supposed to be their protection? Are they less 'approachable' you ask-- how the everloving crap could they NOT be? It exacerbates the criminal element's vile hatred and anger at the mere -idea- of police... just the -sight- of them, knowing they're carrying guns, is enough to incite a twinge of some kind in just about anyone. It's a deeply rooted social stigma now, one we've grown up with for hundreds of years, it's even -intended- to have that effect, and even the peaceniks have to agree that even if we -did- take the guns away from the police, just about every criminal in the country would promptly go nuts in delight.



If you guys in the UK -do- successfully arm your police with guns... you probably -won't- be able to go back. If one of these days here in the US, the mix does go bad, and the police end up shooting a bunch of harmless students or something like they did back in the 60s, there will be an uproar-- which could easily result in -more- riots, and who knows where it might escalate from there. That 'special relationship' is important, else things degenerate into all-out war someday.



The more I hear about how things are going across the pond, the more it worries me. Please, please, -please- you guys, don't let the paranoia and the propaganda get to you, don't end up any more like the US than you already have! Europe is supposed to be smarter than all this!

"Ours is not to question The Head; it is enough to revel in the ubiquitous inanity of The Head, the unwanted proximity of The Head, the unrelenting HellPresence of The Head, indeed the very UNYIELDING IRRELEVANCE of The Head!" --Revelation X

Posted: 24th Nov 2005

Written by: Gnarly Cranium

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The Justice Department does not collect statistics on killings by police in which the officer used excessive force or may have committed a crime."

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I feel like I should be suprised by this, but I'm not. More of the mentality of "We're the only people that matter". Same with 9/11. Same with Iraq. Same with Afghanistan. It's too easy to believe that the government considers the lives of it's own citizens to be worth 10 times as much as anyone elses. UK isn't quite so bad... more of 5 times anyone elses.

People are equal. Therefore if you record the police deaths, you should report the police crimes. If you count the numbers of your own dead, you should count the enemies. (and you might want to record the civilian body count, just for posterity)

And for those who think I'm bashing America, I'm not. I'm bashing anyone who considers some lives to be worth more than others based on the accident of their birth.

After much consideration, I find that the view is worth the asphyxiation.
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I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.