If it doesnt hurt anybody...

This man is by all definition US Government Property, so am I and everyone else who signs the dotted line.

He is not just harming himself. His actions effect the moral and the readiness of this squadron. If he is not 100% we are not 100%. I dont expect you to understand this.

You're right Mike you dont own your patients, but the Government does own him.

If this guy is not helped I will bet you a million to one that he will go back to the states, get out of the Corps and get behind the wheel drunk and kill someone.

If someone has that big of a problem they resort to drinking rubbing alcohol!! Mike I cant believe you chastise me. Your a med student yet you dont seem to understand the ramifications of drinking that shit!


Mike, are you nuts, he has been orderd not to drink! This has gone to the commanding officer of the Squadron, reports have been made, it has run its course in the chain of command and all attempts to help this man clean up have failed!

He isnt going to be in the Corps much longer, pretty much as soon as we get back to ConUS he is getting adminsep. His stress and depression is extreamly high right now.


I spent all night staying up watching him to make sure he was all right when he came back from the hospital.


I have done everything that you all have suggested and more has been done by others. We arnt just going to let him continue down a destructive path. Sorry but that isnt what a friend does.

*sleves*

quote:

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If he is not 100% we are not 100%. I dont expect you to understand this.

---

oh but we do it's why we worry about pilots on drugs

Ray...I'm not trying to make this personal, but it is really yourself who doesn't understand the situation.

If he is truly an alcoholic, then it has progressed from a mental drinking problem into a physical disease.

I have said this before in another thread you have a large presence in, but here goes again.

Ordering him to stop drinking is as much use as ordering an amputee to "get up and walk".

He is phyically ill in the body and the brain (the brain is not just willpower, it is also a physical organ, with it's own specific chemicals and ways of working).

You (meaning the Marine Corp) cannot forcibly prevent him from drinking without providing measures that I doubt are available in the grounds there in Japan.

He needs a REHAB CENTRE. As its seems difficult for you to understand now, hopefully the rubbing alcohol incident will show you this man has a problem that cannot be solved overnight.

Here a few common withdrawl symptoms for alcohlics...

* Sleeplessness

* Marked tremors

* Disorientation

* Multiple neuritis

* Delirium

* Seizures

* Hallucinations
1. Auditory hallucinations
2. Delusions
3. Patient may become homicidal or suicidal due to hallucinations.

(To name a few)

Are you beginning to understand the severity of this yet?

Well from what I’ve learned so far from reading “Ancient Wisdom, Modern World” by the Dalai Lama, it seems that every ones happiness is interlaced and that what we do and say influences not just our own happiness and well being but everyone’s. By hurting yourself you may or may not
do or cause physical harm too someone else, you are causing metal, and emotional harm to others
even if you may think no one cares about you, when someone reads, hears or in some other way
finds out that say you committed suicide then it will affect them in some way more so if it is
someone that you were important too. So really when you hurt yourself you hurt others, there is
no not hurting other people. That is why I really hate that “People should be allowed to do
whatever they want as long as they don’t hurt anyone else.” stuff.

Thank you Charles for being, as usual, a voice of reason

I wasn't going to respond again, but since I've been quoted directly

quote:

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The man isnt on a nice sweet journey, he is on the fast track to serious bodily harm or death.

He has a problem, and all of our attempts to help him recover have failed. Even our drastic measures have failed. I dont know what to do now, but I'll tell you one thing, it wont be to let him do stupid shit just because he isnt hurting me or anyone else!

---

Where did I say he was on a nice sweet journey Ray - you're doing what you accuse others of doing - putting words in my mouth.

This journey is one of the hardest an individual will walk - FOR THE REST OF THEIR LIFE, and I'm not reading anywhere in this thread that you understand that?

Thanks NYC for making me see ray in a different light, I need that

Yes Charles I understand all of what you said, in fact I have been saying it the whole time. We have done everything short of tieing him to a bed, a rehab center just cant be done right now. It isnt an option, why, I dont know. It isnt my call, I have no controle over the situation.

Frosty, I have no comment for you at all. You just wasted my time and yours.


Ade, do you honestly think that I have not thought about everything you have all already said? I mean do you precieve me to be that dumb?

Do you think I am just sitting there night after night yelling at this guy? For the past month now I have done nothing outside of my room. I have not spun fire, I have not seen a movie, I have done nothing! I have sat there and baby sat a guy who is 6 years older than me. Yet even though I do all I can to help him out he just goes and does something stupid.

Everyone has tried to help him, taken him to AA meetings, done all we could.


You sit there and chastise us for our efforts, and then say just let him kill himself!

Well **** that! This Marine isnt dieing on my watch.

Ray, I don't agree with a whole lot of what you said. But your life as a soldier is far different than anything I've experienced, so I won't begin to question how you feel right now. However, the fact that he tried to get away suggests some more serious psychological issues that I think he deserves treatment for. I understand that you want to help him, but he may have already progressed to a point where he needs inpatient care. Isn't there a millitary shrink on base that you could refer to? Alcoholics often suffer from severe depression as well as other symptoms, which may constitute some sort of medical leave...

This case is dealing with someone who took his actions to the extreme, to a self destructive point. Friends are the most important thing for him now, but realize your limitations. Perhaps the millitary is not the right place for him. Maybe he just needs some time to get his head straight. How he lives his life is ultimatly his choice, and your feelings, though well intentioned, I think may be a little totalitarian from my point of view, which assumes a much more "Do as thou wilt" tone.

None the less, my own grandfather was an alcoholic and a smoker, and I watched him deteriorate and die. It can be hard to watch, and I hope your friend pulls through his depression. Maybe he just needs someone to talk to?

You are very right, he does suffer with extream depression, but inpatient care isnt an option that the command is taking right now. I dont know why and I can do nothing to make them do it.


I dont know what to do and I since he came back we stayed up pretty late just talking.


I will do all I can to make sure this guy pulls out of this with his life intact.

Ray I am not sure... why did you post this in the first place ? because you seem to disrespect everything and anythign we have been trying to think of to share our thoughts and maybe help... I am confused. ..

shine on
cass

I dont know why I posted, but you know letting someone wallow in their own destruction is the wrong attitude. I'm sorry if you all think I'm being an ass but you know, I wont watch someone die, I'm sorry.

No you either misunderstand what I am saying or I was not clear.

I am angry with the people who have been telling me to just let him do what he wants. Let him continue drinking, let him go down a road that will surly lead to his death.


Those who have been saying that he needs to get professional help I have been agreeing with. Right now for what ever reason, the command has not pushed more than just mandatory AA meetings.

It is out of my control to do anything more than stop him from drinking while he is near me.

Two Words for you Ray.

Dishonourable Discharge.

This man should have been fired a while ago, if he is endangering the rest of his crew. He should be given a complete pysch evaluation, and sent home.

THAT is the extent of your duty of care.

If this individual cannot get the care he needs where he is stationed, then he needs to be sent somewhere else or else drummed out of the corps, if the first option REALLY isn't possible.

At present he is just a risk to himself and everyone around him.

Raph

I dont know why this stuff hasnt been done. Decisions like that are way above my paygrade! I do know that they want to get him out, but it would be faster to let him EAS than to kick him out.

He is already getting out with an OTH discharge a bad conduct or dishonorable discharge will ruin him for life if he ever wanted to get a job!

Due to "stop loss" he is past his EAS, but they wont let him out for another 2 months. This again is above my paygrade.

While it may be above your paygrade to make such decisions, perhaps you could ask those above you about what could be done to help this person?

Just a thought.

Raph

Trust me it has been suggested. Right now things are at the higest level of the squadron. They moved him out of the room yesterday and he is now under 24 hour supervision.